Splash Mountain re-theme announced

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SuddenStorm

Well-Known Member
Not really. The film was theatrically re-released in 1986. Disney was apparently naming the movie online until very recently.

Yep- they removed the references to Song of the South on the main web page for both WDW and DL, but it's still in the search preview-

Splash Mountain Web Result.PNG


It's also directly referenced in the Disneyland version of the ride on the sign behind the fox (I couldn't find a good photo)-

1593282547895.png
 

Brer Oswald

Well-Known Member
Br’er Rabbit is a tale that has existed for hundreds of years, dating back to West Africa and through oral tradition of generations in the bonds of slavery. It was a tale rooted in empowerment and hope for getting by, it was about a sly rabbit outwitting authority figures and those that wished him harm. It may be unfortunate to be incorporated in Song of the South, but it exists independently of that movie and the ride makes no mention of the problematic aspects. The Br’er Rabbit tales predate Disney by hundreds of years and has continued to be used outside of Disney (there was a Nick Cannon movie in 2006). Cancelling this important story because contemporary Twitter mobs can’t separate it from another part that hasn’t been seen in decades is doing a disservice and burying an important part of history and African-American storytelling tradition. Condemning traditional African folklore for sharing the screen with Song of the South would be like condemning Sleepy Hollow if America turned on Mr. Toad.

So, now that we are cancelling African folklore, what are we replacing it with? A European fairytale with races switched and an element where the African Americans are tormented by voodoo and witch doctors. That sounds more questionable to me and, on top of everything, this will likely be a cheap overlay rather than a new, innovative ride that many believe Princess and the Frog deserves.

Perhaps a better option would be to save the money of an overlay and add an exhibit to the queue of Splash Mountain about the roots of traditional African American storytelling and its importance. Turn it empowering and free the narrative from the connection to Song of the South. Br’er Rabbit remains a tale that needs telling.
Yeah. The idea to do away with an African American folklore tale in favour of a European tale is rather troubling. We went from one story with black roots to none. Granted, it was a whitewashing not the tale. Which is why I believe steps should have been taken to bring the ride closer to its roots than outright change it.

Change the music. Change the voice cast to a black cast. Change the script. There’s a lot of things that needed to change. But this argument will come back to bite Disney eventually, unless they start putting all of their effort to creating tons of stories created by and about black people, as well as of people of other colours and nationalities (which they could be doing as we speak).

PatF works on a surface level, because now you have a character, clearly black, with a major attraction to represent people. While that’s great, you’re replacing an African American Tale with a “white” lead with a European tale that has a black lead. Obviously there was a problem with the first one, but it wasn’t unfixable. Not sure why Brer Rabbit wasn’t played by a black actor in the ride considering he was in the movie (I’m pretty sure?), but that could’ve been fixed.

There shouldn’t be one “token black story” in the parks. There should be more than two, although two would’ve been a start. They could’ve co-existed. But Disney never cared about this. They wanted Splash gone. They didn’t want to hear SotS being asked about at the investor meetings anymore. They didn’t want to maintain a fluke with 100 animatronics. They didn’t want to make the effort to write the wrongs of SotS.

They want to pretend like it never happened. And so far, it’s working. This has bought them a lot of good press right now. But people who think critically are going to start comparing notes. And people who can think critically are the people that go far. The people that rise to power to hold others accountable, and influence others as well.

Splash Mountain needed changes, but it needed changes within the folklore it was based on. Disney needs more than just one black centred story, and it’s going to need some that aren’t just modified European fairytales written by white dudes.
 

orlandogal22

Well-Known Member
I just came across an archived article from the 1997 book Do-Dah! Stephen Foster and the Rise of American Popular Culture

On Page 60, it references Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah. And calls it "one of many echoes of blackface in Disney."
It then goes on to cite Mickey himself in Steamboat Willie as having "black skin, exaggerated facial features, white gloves, and big feet [sic] an updated Ethiopian delineation."

Well, that's it, folks! Let's just get rid all the parks worldwide and wipe the name of Disney from the face of the earth.
Mickey was apparently founded on the premise of blackface. He couldn't possibly be just a mouse!
Why are we even here discussing this? Everything is racist, don't you know?

:rolleyes:

 

aw14

Well-Known Member
No, ideally give minority people more roles in general! Any role! But when a majority of roles on TV are white characters and when there finally is a black character, it's still given to a white actor, that's a problem.

In an ideal world representation on tv would be equal to our society, and it's getting better, but it'll still take some time.
So
Minorities can get a voice role playing a white character but not vice versa?
 

Musical Mermaid

Well-Known Member
This is more about WDW than Disneyland. Shouldn’t Disney be replacing something in Frontierland with something that fits the theming? Yeah, maybe Splash Mountain isn’t western, but it comes closer to representing the African stories being told during that time period. Any other depictions of African culture during that era would likely be the type of material people don’t want to see or remember. And apparently a lot of figures from the frontier would upset people as well, so why couldn’t this be about the nature of the frontier? They have a runaway mine train next door, but couldn’t they think of something about crazy waterfalls and cliffs? Does Disney have any original ideas anymore? ($$$, princess, princess, princess)

Princess and the Frog, as a fairytale, belongs more in Fantasyland than anywhere else if it were to be placed in Magic Kingdom. Based on the New Orleans setting, it’d be amazing to see a character dining experience at Port Orleans French Quarter based off of Tiana’s Restaurant. That seems to write itself with all the Mardi Gras theming and Tiana’s dream come to life, whereas Mardi Gras in the 20th century in Frontierland? What are the leaders smoking? Maybe nothing, just a hypothetical question, but I’m questioning the smarts of those in charge when things like this don’t seem well thought out. No, they weren’t thinking of this for years, because if they had been, surely they would have had better ideas by now, right?

P.S. I like the characters in Splash Mountain, the songs, and the ride. I like Princess and the Frog. I don’t think what Disney has planned right now makes sense.
 

Brer Oswald

Well-Known Member
The problem with condemning Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah (which I’ve seen Twitter activists misspell as “Zippity” to further push it towards the Zip C**n Racist theory agenda), Mickey’s Gloves, And other harmless things with problematic origins means that we are saying nothing good can come from something bad.

It’s the same as the mentality that people can’t change, which is something many people believe for some reason. If people and things can’t change for the better, what are we looking to do right now as a society? Do we end the human race because the human race is too problematic? No we try to grow and change as a community.

Let’s take it back to Entertainment. Many fairytales are problematic. Should Disney not make adaptations of them that make them less problematic? I don’t think so, and Disney clearly doesn’t think so.

Now let’s look at Splash Mountain. The original Brer Rabbit tales are important. The Joel Chandler Harris collection can be described as problematic. SotS is a bad adaptation of something problematic of something good. Splash was a good adaptation of a bad adaptation.

You still with me?

It’s possible to have a good adaptation of something bad, just as it is possible to have a bad adaptation of something good.

Similarly, bad people can adapt and become good people. Just look at Marvel’s posterboy actor RDJ.

I know I’m rambling, but I really don’t get this mentality that bad things must stay bad and can never be good, while at the same time, we’re trying to change a bad society into something good.
 

SilentWindODoom

Well-Known Member
This thread has been moved to the Political forum - so as long as you are respectful towards others you can get as political as you wish.

Oops. Misunderstood the announcement. Thought he meant take political talk to a new thread over there and do only non-political talk in here, worrying the new posts I saw appearing were going to get the thread closed. Thanks.

And does that mean that Bart Simpson should be voiced at least by an adult male? To be honest, without those characters in The Simpsons, you do not have The Simpsons. It would seem the issue would be less with who is Voice ACTING but the hateful nature in which the character is portrayed. (Apu etc...)

Ooh, was with you until you called the honest working man "hateful".
 

aw14

Well-Known Member
That’s not what I’m saying at all but I’m aware any explanation I could possibly do is futile so I’m not gonna waste my breath.
Are you then suggesting there is no explanation? At the end of the day, if we are looking for true "equality", then black voice actors should make up 13% of the voice acting population.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
Oops. Misunderstood the announcement. Thought he meant take political talk to a new thread over there and do only non-political talk in here, worrying the new posts I saw appearing were going to get the thread closed. Thanks.



Ooh, was with you until you called the honest working man "hateful".

I was speaking of the writing and directing that has hateful things. Not Hank A.
 

orlandogal22

Well-Known Member
It's how Motown got started by Barry Gordy. Doo-Wop! Incidentally "The Mom" knows a lot about Doo-Wop. Gordy got Smokey Robinson to record an "answer song" to the Silhouettes hit "Get a Job".

OK. Yes. But what does Berry Gordy starting Motown after discovering the Miracles (and the subsequent "answer song") have to do with what you were discussing re: the white man in blackface. Genuinely, I'm not connecting the dots here.

(FWIW, I'm familiar with doo-wop too. Grew up listening to it practically 24x7 in the 70s and 80s as my uncle was an Oldies DJ.)
 

DubyooDeeDubyoo

Active Member
If all these people that claim to have all these deep seeded issues with the ride's (association) with racism, why have they gone to WDW and ridden it and spent hard earned $ on a company that supposedly hides racism in their rides? And assuming that by now they've already been made aware of the ride's connection with the controversial film.
There is a middle ground. Lots of people watch Shakespeare without agreeing with 17th century morals. I like the talking animals but gotta admit that the Uncle Remus book has enough uses of "the N-word" among other red flags that it shouldn't be celebrated with an E-ride. I think helping the case further is that kids don't know who Brer Rabbit is anymore, and it's hard to give them any context. Many people don't want to hand a bookful of broken English dialect and recurring a racial slur to kids who wonder what Splash Mountain is supposed to be about, and the movie's got it's own problems in addition to probably being boring.

It's sad to admit, but so much of the west side of the castle parks is steeped in cultures of white supremacy, as manifest destiny and the arrival of cowboys and the old west was not really a great time for other peoples. That doesn't mean Frontierland as a whole needs to go, but people need to think about the park and whether some things are outdated or a product of the company being driven by the vision of one white guy with a mostly white team of people.

The Simpsons just dropped white actors playing roles for non-white characters. If that standard was applied in the parks, you'd see a lot of changes. I'm surprised that Wally Boag's Jose has lasted this long.
 

Phil12

Well-Known Member
OK. Yes. But what does Berry Gordy starting Motown after discovering the Miracles (and the subsequent "answer song") have to do with what you were discussing re: the white man in blackface. Genuinely, I'm not connecting the dots here.

(FWIW, I'm familiar with doo-wop too. Grew up listening to it practically 24x7 in the 70s and 80s as my uncle was an Oldies DJ.)
My reply was to answer 21stamps concerning the Motown answer.
 

Brer Oswald

Well-Known Member
There is a middle ground. Lots of people watch Shakespeare without agreeing with 17th century morals. I like the talking animals but gotta admit that the Uncle Remus book has enough uses of "the N-word" among other red flags that it shouldn't be celebrated with an E-ride. I think helping the case further is that kids don't know who Brer Rabbit is anymore, and it's hard to give them any context. Many people don't want to hand a bookful of broken English dialect and recurring a racial slur to kids who wonder what Splash Mountain is supposed to be about, and the movie's got it's own problems in addition to probably being boring.

It's sad to admit, but so much of the west side of the castle parks is steeped in cultures of white supremacy, as manifest destiny and the arrival of cowboys and the old west was not really a great time for other peoples. That doesn't mean Frontierland as a whole needs to go, but people need to think about the park and whether some things are outdated or a product of the company being driven by the vision of one white guy with a mostly white team of people.

The Simpsons just dropped white actors playing roles for non-white characters. If that standard was applied in the parks, you'd see a lot of changes. I'm surprised that Wally Boag's Jose has lasted this long.
That’s some surface level thinking.
 

Musical Mermaid

Well-Known Member
Disney needs more than just one black centred story, and it’s going to need some that aren’t just modified European fairytales written by white dudes.

This. They found a Chinese heroine from a Chinese legend, they got Pocahontas from the actual Native American history, Moana was based upon Polynesian myths. There are plenty of Caucasian princesses from the European fairytales. And when they came out with Tiana? Were there any heroines from African stories in existence at the time? I bet there were, but Disney couldn’t be bothered to use them. Why? They took the easy way out, played it safe, and inserted an African-American into a European story and people said, “Hurrah, Disney, wow, you’re so diverse!” I don’t think that’s fair and they need to consider African cultural stories more and look for those heroines.
 
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