Spirited Thoughts, News, Observations etc.

OK, hide the women and the children ... most importantly send the fanbois to bed with their plush and tell them to hide under the covers ... waaaay down under them because it's time for some Spirited thoughts, observations, news and anecdotes from a long weekend at The World Maintenance Forgot, yes WDW.

Where to start? With a conclusion? Or should I just work on down?

Should I start with the good ... things like seeing friends, having great weather, appreciating some things that the fan community tends to ignore and seeing EPCOT in its best colors?

Or ... do I focus on everything else? Because all going to WDW did for me this weekend was exceed my already amazingly low expectations for the state of WDW infrastructure and show quality (hey, they did exceed expectations, right?) and get me more excited for my future visits to DLP, possibly BGW, DL ... and, hopefully in the not too distant future, the Asian resorts again too.

Let's start with the basics. Freshness. If you had visited WDW in 2006 and hadn't returned in six years, you would find no appreciable new product in three of four parks.

You would find show quality that already had issues showing more issues than the typical fanboi in therapy. Well, that's if you can actually get to the MK because the crumbling monorail system has to be shut down all day from 11:30 a.m to 6 p.m. to do track work in the midst of one of the busiest times of the year ... imagine paying $500-700 a night for a room at the GF or Poly with monorail convenience touted (wonder what guest recovery they are doing there!) ... but let's assume you find your way there.

Let's start with the stuff the fan community is all lathered up for, namely the Storybook Circus mini-land expansion of Fantasyland. What did I think of it?

Not very much at all.

As usual, the hype was much greater than the product, which can't be viewed in a vacuum in a park that is crumbling and has no wow factor at all anymore.

In the day, Dumbo's primary colors and the red painted construction fences all around come off as garish ... befitting a circus, no doubt ... but Old Man Disney was no more a fan of circuses than he was of amusement parks and piers and the shady elements that all attracted. So, we have a new spinner that is prettier than the last. And it spins high enough to peek over construction walls and we all know how much that has become en vogue in O-Town of late.

It is a beautiful kinetic piece at night when the lighting is largely coming from the white and red bulbs that rim the queue (likely more of a makeshift deal now until the old Dumbo starts spinning across the way) and the LEDs embedded in the fountains underneath. But it is still Dumbo.

Sort of like the Barnstormer is still the Barnstormer, just missing much in the way of theming. Its prior incarnation had some whimsy, this doesn't. But they weren't getting rid of the only kiddie coaster in the park, so this was a cheap fix. Oh, and thanks to Bob Iger working with a chainsaw, you can now watch Disney buses and CMs driving to/fro work behind the MK as you walk up the queue if you peer left. I will never get what Phil and TDO have against trees, but they certainly do.

Nothing else is open beyond a much nicer train station that is still a train station ... and a set of new restrooms (someone needs to page Talking Head to this thread stat!) What I found amazing is that Disney was too cheap to actually connect these facilities to the park's main water supply, so they are using water from the immediate area that is untreated (or perhaps non-filtered/cleansed is more appropriate) so you have bizarre signs saying the water is 'non potable' (that means you can't drink it for those with limited vocabularies) over toilets. I know Disney's prices are crazy for a Coke, but over the toilet?!? ... Of course, the reason is they have colored the water blue because otherwise it would be a very icky color and folks would constantly be complaining that something isn't right.

Are the details nice? Sure. But they are very basic. I was much more excited by leaf patterns in the walkways around Old Man Island at Dixie Landings 20 years ago than I am by various hoof prints and 'peanuts' embedded in this area.

So much of this area also suffers from having both exposed coaster track (Disney fanbois seem to have issues with this at UNI) and show buildings just sticking out like a Duffy alone on a shelf full of Minnies.

If this is what Disney believes will raise the bar in O-Town ... well, no ... they don't. They understand what they have built and why. This is about capacity ... and NEXT GEN ... and keeping folks from being bored out of their minds by offering something 'new'.

It's in 'soft opening' now, but let's be blunt: they had to get this open and open now. They have so little capacity in this park due to 15 years of taking away and not adding. MK just isn't a very pleasant place right now at all with crowds and walls and lots of attractions that have seen far better days.

Again, it also seems that Ops and WDI simply can't get on the same page no matter what ... Dumbo opens with small plants where every little kid (and plenty of big ones) are going to stand, so the result is the foliage that was there Monday was trampled and mostly dead or dying by Friday. How they miss these basics is beyond me, although I think communication and common sense are both lacking.

Now, what else was 'new' (to me) at MK? Spin the Fanboi? Pin the Tail on Meg? Dole Whip tees (I mean, REALLY?!?!) ... or how about the latest way to hook OCD fanbois and why it is so important to NEXT GEN.

I'll see you all a little later ... like in the next post!
 

Kiff

Member
When will you all realize people write like this for a reason.. to stir up noise and attention.

Perhaps... but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's going to take a lot for improvements to happen at the world. Step 1 would be bringing the fan community on-board with the need for change. Until the fans wake up to the issues at WDW nothing is going to change anytime soon.
 

Pitchforkman

New Member
Perhaps... but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's going to take a lot for improvements to happen at the world. Step 1 would be bringing the fan community on-board with the need for change. Until the fans wake up to the issues at WDW nothing is going to change anytime soon.

But here is the thing just because we may find issues with things that does not mean everyone does
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I truely believe you do not know what facts are and like what Flynnibus you are just here to stir up trouble. You just attacked a fellow poster for no reason and acted like a child. I assume you are older than me and it makes me feel sad for the state of the world when an older gentlemen acts like a child.

So, you are new to this site and you think you have an idea as what facts I know or don't know. Why does this song keep playing over and over again?

Seriously? I don't just join interrupt a conversation at a party and immediatelt start casting aspersions on the character of those having said conversation.

I am happy that when i go to WDW and when my family and friends go they do not have to suffer people like you ruining the world for them.

Actually, one of the worst things about WDW tends to be its guests ... like the parents who forced a screaming 4-5 year-old to ride ToT when he was scared out of his mind (of course, the bellhop CM didn't help by telling him he'd be fine instead of suggesting the parents do a child swap).

But I hope you have a MAGICal time at WDW!:D
 

Kiff

Member
I am curious how you spend more than a day at IoA? I had fun when i was there but literally i did everything i needed to do in matter of 4 hours. But that is just me, according to '74 I am a fanboi who likes a walmart experience.

I would normally agree with the one day for IoA but in my case I have some friends with young children along for the ride so we will be moving a bit slower. That said, this will give me an opportunity to take my time in the park and check out some of the details I normally rush past. It's also my first chance to check out that new wizard I have heard so much about....
 

Pitchforkman

New Member
So, you are new to this site and you think you have an idea as what facts I know or don't know. Why does this song keep playing over and over again?

Seriously? I don't just join interrupt a conversation at a party and immediatelt start casting aspersions on the character of those having said conversation.



Actually, one of the worst things about WDW tends to be its guests ... like the parents who forced a screaming 4-5 year-old to ride ToT when he was scared out of his mind (of course, the bellhop CM didn't help by telling him he'd be fine instead of suggesting the parents do a child swap).

But I hope you have a MAGICal time at WDW!:D

I do agree with your last part about forcing a screaming.child on ToT. Rude guests do ruin some of the magic
 

shmmrname

Active Member
So, you are new to this site and you think you have an idea as what facts I know or don't know. Why does this song keep playing over and over again?

Seriously? I don't just join interrupt a conversation at a party and immediatelt start casting aspersions on the character of those having said conversation.



Actually, one of the worst things about WDW tends to be its guests ... like the parents who forced a screaming 4-5 year-old to ride ToT when he was scared out of his mind (of course, the bellhop CM didn't help by telling him he'd be fine instead of suggesting the parents do a child swap).

But I hope you have a MAGICal time at WDW!:D

Someone please close this thread. It's not useful, and at best, it's just another example of the worst aspects of on-line communities.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Sorry you are completely wrong about the term fanboi. It was not created by Imagineers in the 90s.

Um, I didn't say created, I said coined but whatever ... I had never heard it before the 1990s in Glendale. If you know where it was first used, by all means please tell the classs ...

When your points are ruined by the fact that you resort to childish attacks it is hard to discuss your points. Like the point that i completely disagree about SotMK

No childish attacks. Just pointed sarcasm. Be a grownup and deal.

And if you disagree about SotMK please why don't you talk about that instead of whining about my posting style. Or is that your purpose here (we have had a lot of trolls of late that seem to enjoy baiting longtime members).

Do you disagree with my FACTs about SoTMK, or just my opinions?:rolleyes:
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Someone please close this thread. It's not useful, and at best, it's just another example of the worst aspects of on-line communities.

Actually, why don't you simply leave the thread if you have nothing of value to add to it? I started it to talk about my experiences at WDW and some items that haven't been talked about here and folks like yourself have degenerated it into an entirely different discussion. I KNOW there are quite a few people who are interested in what I experienced, what information I came across and what it all may mean.

So, no, don't try and close something down just because you lack the ability of desire to take part in it ... go find another thread that fits you better.

Seriously.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
People who write that you enjoy hating the parks will conveniently ignore this. But this is a key point. It makes more sense to me for a fanboy to share this sentiment rather than make excuses for park management when it fails its job as steward of the creative product. I am a Disney fanboy. I love the rides, movies, and characters, and, therefore, I have a vested interest in seeing the parks at their best. That is why I get disappointed when show quality is not consistently maintained.

This forum has gone through this conversation a million times before, and it's maddening that it constantly has to be restated.

It is maddening and I am already mad at myself for even wasting time responding to certain people. They don't want to stay on target, so I become the target. Tale as old as time ... or the Internet, I guess.:ROFLOL:

What's worse is I'm a bit off what I wanted to say, so it's gonna have to wait for tomorrow.
 

Kiff

Member
But here is the thing just because we may find issues with things that does not mean everyone does

I can certainly understand that some of the items listed by spirit may not ruin a persons individual vacation, but that doesn't change the FACT that these issues do exist. It's embarrassing for the top them park in the world to have these ongoing problems for weeks/months/years.

Top that off with an obvious lack of new attractions/entertainment. Even the stuff that IS coming down the pipe doesn't appear to compete with the competition on any level. Not good in my opinion and even if I still loved my trips to WDW, I would also lament the FACT that they could do so much more.
 

shmmrname

Active Member
Actually, why don't you simply leave the thread if you have nothing of value to add to it? I started it to talk about my experiences at WDW and some items that haven't been talked about here and folks like yourself have degenerated it into an entirely different discussion. I KNOW there are quite a few people who are interested in what I experienced, what information I came across and what it all may mean.

So, no, don't try and close something down just because you lack the ability of desire to take part in it ... go find another thread that fits you better.

Seriously.

the ability of desire?
 

shmmrname

Active Member
To me, this thread has become less about substance - and more about attacking others. Obviously, we can all leave and find a new thread; however, I believe these forums aren't the place for what this conversation has become. I am simply saying that - maybe there is a better outlet for arguments and derision.
I enjoy my time on these forums, and I don't like seeing threads like this, that's all.
 

choco choco

Well-Known Member
Let’s talk about the issues.

Spirit, the land is not completed yet. Should they have opened it this early? Or should they have completed everything and opened with a big bash, a la DCA this summer?

With yours and ‘Lightbulbs responses, it seems to me that Disney has a really paint-by-numbers type feel to theming these days. There’s a long checklist of stuff to theme, and they just go down checking things off the list (“Concrete themed? Check. Light Fixtures? Check. Railings? Check. … and on and on). In the first Fantasyland, each of the original three dark rides was tied to a specific adjective: beautiful (Pan), scary (Snow White) and manic (Mr. Toad’s). Walt actually intended MK to have three dark rides with the same three concepts but tied to different franchises: Poppins, Sleeping Beauty and Sorcerer in the Stone, respectively, but that fell by the wayside once he died.

I think we are all a little disappointed that Disney has abandoned this form of conceptualizing (put yourself in the guest’s shoes, feel what they are feeling), in favor of cynical “see if we do everything on this checklist, then we have done our job!” It is theming, but somehow makes everything feel less artistic and makes the parks feel less like works of artists. The original Imagineers were all of The Man’s hand-picked favorite animators and they instinctively knew how to put emotional touches on everything.

So let’s take SotMK. For a company that prides itself on emotional storytelling, what is the emotion they’re trying to put through here? (I am looking for an adjective). A certain ex-Disney employee around these ol' parts (hint, hint) stated that he thought the double Dumbo idea was lazy. And it kind of is, what are they trying to convey with that, other than coldly saying they can now pass twice the number of people through that ride?
 

Bolna

Well-Known Member
There is a purpose to the 'madness' though ... with KP you have to play the game until your adventure ends or you simply return your Kimmunicator. SotMK is designed for the future. For the NEXT GEN MK. For when guests will be standing in Fantasyland having just met Donald and Daisy (booked six months out) and are 40 minutes away from their FP window for Peter Pan opening. Instead of adding more attractions to combat the empty times, Disney feels that this is the perfect solution because once you've paused the game, you can pick it up anytime after ... even days, weeks, months ... at the same point. So, suddenly your downtime can be used to shop, dine or play.

And just wait until your wrist bracelet RFID has all your past history programmed in ... you won't even need a card ... just the flick of your wrist can send Hades back to the underworld (or TDO as it is know to us).

This I find a very interesting thought. I always guessed that the whole SotMK idea was sold to TDO as a way to add "capacity" to the park: Make people feel like they experienced more than they actually did as there appears to be a magic number that visitors need to reach to be happy (I am still in shock that according to Mr Gas at DLP that is 6 attractions per day!!).

But I can see how someone would think that providing these diversions would be an easy way to fill time between appointments (i.e. your scheduled X-Pass times). So, in a way you are saying that SotMK is the interactive queue for the whole of the MK.

And what makes me wonder: it seems like all these screens have lines. So instead of waiting 40 minutes for a ride, you wait 5 minutes at each of 8 screens. Not sure how much I would like that. Appears to be a bit tiresome.

Even if the game were really brilliant (and I haven't played it yet, so am still keeping an open mind about it), it appears to be so indicative about the mindset: The MK is no longer run to wow people, to fascinate them, to amaze them. The new goal is to keep the majority of people from being dissatisfied.
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Maybe the distinction between fanboi and Fanboi needs to be mentioned again.

One is the geek who loves the parks, has a passion and a desire for them, and will complain loudly when that that they love falls well below expectations when there is no reason why aside from an ever diminishing budget and sensible business plan.

The other fanboi is one who thinks there is nothing wrong and everything is rosey.

I'm certainly the in the first category.
 

Expo_Seeker40

Well-Known Member
One of the worst things about reading any message whether digital or written is that you can't "hear" the person's tone of voice or what words are heavily accented for pun or meaning unless one uses caps or italics. As we don't always use those on our keyboards, at least here...it may be difficult to "hear" how the person is saying it.

Spirit doesn't necessarily mean to stir up the nest. Most of his posts are with...dare I say both wit and (nasty widdl') humor. :drevil:

Now, to clear things up, Fanboi/fanboi and the way it's spelled does go back to Imagineering as a somewhat derogatory term to describe Disney's harshest critics. That term didn't see the light of day until the internet boomed and social media began to take over. (Don't even get me started on "sweatshirt moms" :lol:)

What does interest me is how many fanboys and fangirls go into attack and/or defense mode over WDW. You have to realize the Spirit loves going to WDW just as much you folks do, however...unlike many of you and this is not meant to be rude, it is indeed true that he has been able to visit (repeatedly) all Disney resorts and parks on the planet. He has seen how Disney quality varies from park to park, but more importantly how it is overwhelmingly better and consistent at the other resorts and is lacking at WDW. I haven't been to every Disney park or resort, but I have seen enough of some of the others to compare and see how bad WDW is slipping....no, FALLING behind.

WDW used to be a pretty classy place. Sure, there would be a rude CM here and there and certainly the same with a rude guest and/or child, but there was always something new and exciting coming up to entice people to visit. The variety and quality was better. Your got value for your bucks, oh and people weren't clogging the area with double wide strollers, EVC's, bumping into people while txting and sxting their friends on their smart phones and getting destracted because a sweatshirt mom has two kids on a leash.

:lookaroun


Anyway...the spirit is right in that NOTHING significant has happened at the MK since the 90s. Other than a new fireworks show, "Wishes" in 2003, which coincided with the total decimation and removal of numerous trees around the hub and plaza (something the other Magic Kingdoms don't suffer from)...the MK in Florida has had a handful of new stage shows, altered afternoon parades, ended Spectromagic which is from 1992, brought back...again DL's MSEP floats....the bulk of them which are from 1977, and other than some general attraction changes A:E to Stitch, Timekeeper to Laugh Floor, and various refurbs HM, HoP, Tiki Room 3.0, there has been nothing groundbreaking or significant at the MK for over 10 years, except with the upcoming new Fantasyland...and that hardly is a "Potter Swatter".

Unlike the other MK's, the one at WDW has lost so much of it's personal touch. Perhaps it's a cultural thing, or a cost saving measure or both, but the food, beverage and merchandise is in fact better at the other Disney resorts. It has gone down hill so bad in Florida. Even though those Dole Whip shirts look fun.

I used to love going to the MK and WDW, but after repeat visits and seeing other Disney parks, I finally cancelled my AP to WDW and have nothing to entice me for now. Again it's just my opinion, but for the core group here on WDWMAGIC many have never been to any other Disney resort other than WDW and can't relate to the opinions of others such as the Spirit, and they honestly get defensive of WDW, but my fellow fans...when you are able to go outside of WDW, you will see Disney quality that will blow you away and make you feel like you're a little child, and if only WDW can do that for you than God bless, but it's sure as heck not doing it for me anymore in the sunshine state or beneath the sunshine tree for that matter as much as I am craving a citrus swirl (and I am).

As far as SotMK goes, I don't think we need to classify EVERYONE as OCD or ADHD. Not cool. It exists and maybe there are a ton of Millennialz that can't sit still, but times are changing and people's behaviors and interactions are changing, yet the other Disney parks seem to adapt to this better.

If a person or a family goes and enjoys something nextgen or SotMK, so be it. I do wish more attention more focused on cosmetic and operational issues. The attractions really need some attention.
 

Monty

Brilliant...and Canadian
In the Parks
No
Maybe the distinction between fanboi and Fanboi needs to be mentioned again.

One is the geek who loves the parks, has a passion and a desire for them, and will complain loudly when that that they love falls well below expectations when there is no reason why aside from an ever diminishing budget and sensible business plan.

The other fanboi is one who thinks there is nothing wrong and everything is rosey.

I'm certainly the in the first category.

Indeed, but in that first category there are two distinct factions: Those who highlight issues and express concern, and those who highlight issues and demean or belittle anyone who doesn't notice or isn't equally upset. I put you, Lee and a few others in the first faction and have the utmost respect for your posts, sources and opinions. Sadly, '74 seems to dominate the second faction and delivers vitriol and hate that detracts from any value there might be in his observations and opinions.

To quote Marshall McLuhan, the medium is the message. '74 loses credibility because no-one can comfortably wade through the detritus to get to the substance.
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
Having never met the man i just feel bad for him. Maybe i was raised with manners, but i can never see myself starting a thread just to attack people.

But you can certainly join one to attack people.

I truely believe you do not know what facts are and like what Flynnibus you are just here to stir up trouble. You just attacked a fellow poster for no reason and acted like a child. I assume you are older than me and it makes me feel sad for the state of the world when an older gentlemen acts like a child.

I am happy that when i go to WDW and when my family and friends go they do not have to suffer people like you ruining the world for them.

It makes me sad when people may or may not be on their 3rd or 4th account....

Sorry you are completely wrong about the term fanboi. It was not created by Imagineers in the 90s.

Enlighten us....
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
One thing I'd like to discuss about 74's report is his statement that you can see back stage all the way to the road, while you are standing in the queue for Dumbo. Has anyone else experienced this? That seems like even worse show then the fact that a giant green show building is visible from multiple points of CircusLand.
 

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