Spirited Thoughts, News, Observations etc.

OK, hide the women and the children ... most importantly send the fanbois to bed with their plush and tell them to hide under the covers ... waaaay down under them because it's time for some Spirited thoughts, observations, news and anecdotes from a long weekend at The World Maintenance Forgot, yes WDW.

Where to start? With a conclusion? Or should I just work on down?

Should I start with the good ... things like seeing friends, having great weather, appreciating some things that the fan community tends to ignore and seeing EPCOT in its best colors?

Or ... do I focus on everything else? Because all going to WDW did for me this weekend was exceed my already amazingly low expectations for the state of WDW infrastructure and show quality (hey, they did exceed expectations, right?) and get me more excited for my future visits to DLP, possibly BGW, DL ... and, hopefully in the not too distant future, the Asian resorts again too.

Let's start with the basics. Freshness. If you had visited WDW in 2006 and hadn't returned in six years, you would find no appreciable new product in three of four parks.

You would find show quality that already had issues showing more issues than the typical fanboi in therapy. Well, that's if you can actually get to the MK because the crumbling monorail system has to be shut down all day from 11:30 a.m to 6 p.m. to do track work in the midst of one of the busiest times of the year ... imagine paying $500-700 a night for a room at the GF or Poly with monorail convenience touted (wonder what guest recovery they are doing there!) ... but let's assume you find your way there.

Let's start with the stuff the fan community is all lathered up for, namely the Storybook Circus mini-land expansion of Fantasyland. What did I think of it?

Not very much at all.

As usual, the hype was much greater than the product, which can't be viewed in a vacuum in a park that is crumbling and has no wow factor at all anymore.

In the day, Dumbo's primary colors and the red painted construction fences all around come off as garish ... befitting a circus, no doubt ... but Old Man Disney was no more a fan of circuses than he was of amusement parks and piers and the shady elements that all attracted. So, we have a new spinner that is prettier than the last. And it spins high enough to peek over construction walls and we all know how much that has become en vogue in O-Town of late.

It is a beautiful kinetic piece at night when the lighting is largely coming from the white and red bulbs that rim the queue (likely more of a makeshift deal now until the old Dumbo starts spinning across the way) and the LEDs embedded in the fountains underneath. But it is still Dumbo.

Sort of like the Barnstormer is still the Barnstormer, just missing much in the way of theming. Its prior incarnation had some whimsy, this doesn't. But they weren't getting rid of the only kiddie coaster in the park, so this was a cheap fix. Oh, and thanks to Bob Iger working with a chainsaw, you can now watch Disney buses and CMs driving to/fro work behind the MK as you walk up the queue if you peer left. I will never get what Phil and TDO have against trees, but they certainly do.

Nothing else is open beyond a much nicer train station that is still a train station ... and a set of new restrooms (someone needs to page Talking Head to this thread stat!) What I found amazing is that Disney was too cheap to actually connect these facilities to the park's main water supply, so they are using water from the immediate area that is untreated (or perhaps non-filtered/cleansed is more appropriate) so you have bizarre signs saying the water is 'non potable' (that means you can't drink it for those with limited vocabularies) over toilets. I know Disney's prices are crazy for a Coke, but over the toilet?!? ... Of course, the reason is they have colored the water blue because otherwise it would be a very icky color and folks would constantly be complaining that something isn't right.

Are the details nice? Sure. But they are very basic. I was much more excited by leaf patterns in the walkways around Old Man Island at Dixie Landings 20 years ago than I am by various hoof prints and 'peanuts' embedded in this area.

So much of this area also suffers from having both exposed coaster track (Disney fanbois seem to have issues with this at UNI) and show buildings just sticking out like a Duffy alone on a shelf full of Minnies.

If this is what Disney believes will raise the bar in O-Town ... well, no ... they don't. They understand what they have built and why. This is about capacity ... and NEXT GEN ... and keeping folks from being bored out of their minds by offering something 'new'.

It's in 'soft opening' now, but let's be blunt: they had to get this open and open now. They have so little capacity in this park due to 15 years of taking away and not adding. MK just isn't a very pleasant place right now at all with crowds and walls and lots of attractions that have seen far better days.

Again, it also seems that Ops and WDI simply can't get on the same page no matter what ... Dumbo opens with small plants where every little kid (and plenty of big ones) are going to stand, so the result is the foliage that was there Monday was trampled and mostly dead or dying by Friday. How they miss these basics is beyond me, although I think communication and common sense are both lacking.

Now, what else was 'new' (to me) at MK? Spin the Fanboi? Pin the Tail on Meg? Dole Whip tees (I mean, REALLY?!?!) ... or how about the latest way to hook OCD fanbois and why it is so important to NEXT GEN.

I'll see you all a little later ... like in the next post!
 

Captain Chaos

Well-Known Member
Sorry but most of his complaints about SotMK were wrong.

Opinions aren't wrong.. He reported what he saw and how he felt about it... How is he wrong??? Is someone only supposed to speak glowingly of WDW?? Are people not allowed to speak their opinions unless they are all positive???
 

Pitchforkman

New Member
All right, let's analyze this shall we?

The Good
*Disneyland is doing very well and the DCA expansion will be outstanding.
*Bringing in Lasseter and Pixar.
*Resurrected 2D Animation.

The Bad
*His complete lack of enthusiasm, Businessman Persona and scripted speech and press releases that sound like they were written by a robot.
*Putting people in power who should not be, Jay Rasulo, Tom Staggs, Meg Crofton.
*Ridiculous and repulsive marketing initiatives. (Disney Parks: Where Dreams Come True, Year of a Million Dreams,Changing Rapunzel to "Tangled". Let's remove all instances of "Walt" and remove any instance of an 's and just use the term "Disney" in all cases)
*the NextGen BS
and of course his complete lack of supervision or interest in the operating of WDW.


I agree with your good points, I would add buying Marvel, pushing and developing new technology and really making Disney tech savy, solidifying ESPN as the greatest sports network, making strides in the film division and television division, making ABC once again relevant.

I disagree with about everyone of your bad points since most of them are dead wrong. Just because a man does not scream and yell does not mean that he is not enthusiastic. Tom Staggs and Meg Crofton both deserved their spots. Just because YOU think otherwise does not make it a fact. Your third point is just completely inane that I literally laughed out loud. The marketing for Disney is amazing, there is no if's, ands, or buts about it. Changing the title to Tangled worked out great and was a great move. Research showed that Rapunzel would of dissuaded people from going to see the movie. I really dont know what you are talking about when it comes to removing Walt's name.

Bashing the Next Gen initiative is so short sighted it is funny. Next Gen is a smart move and it is great that Disney is staying in the forefront of the technology curve.
 

Pitchforkman

New Member
Opinions aren't wrong.. He reported what he saw and how he felt about it... How is he wrong??? Is someone only supposed to speak glowingly of WDW?? Are people not allowed to speak their opinions unless they are all positive???

True, opinions are not wrong. I just disagree with his opinions. People are allowed to call out bad aspects, like he did about the storybook circus section. I dont agree with him on his claims but he is allowed to say them as long as he does not call people fanbois. I disagree about the video screens being environment ruiners and that the only people playing SotMK are teenage fanbois.
 

rioriz

Well-Known Member
I think the point that many here are missing is that those who object to the overriding negativity do so not because they disagree with what is being said but of how it is said. For example, being a quiet member and only observing for the first decade of membership, Lee, Martin, and Eddie do a great job of letting you know their personal disappointments in projects and downsizing but are to the point and never evoke much negativity from anyone.

I have chosen to break my silence only because I used to enjoy coming to this site daily especially to hear all the informative and diverse opinions but every thread, and yes just about every thread now, gets thrown off course with swarms a negativity...

And yes I am Universal Season pass holder and not a WDW!
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
But here's the thing-- it wasn't just constructive criticism and it wasn't just sarcasm or cynism. It was a direct attack on people.

I can be-- and often am-- the most sarcastic, cynical person around, and I deeply value intelligent discussion spawning from disagreement and criticism, but that's not what 74's tirade lends itself to at all.

For every criticism of the state of the parks or, more specifically, Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom, there is a jab at those who dare to enjoy the new attraction. He bases much of his criticism on his personal preference-- which is, of course, fine, were he to state it as such instead of imply it to be unwavering fact for all-- and juxtaposes it against infantile insults at members of nerd culture. Fanboys. Fanbois. What have you.

The implication is that anybody who is over the age of, like, five and enjoys the feature is strange, odd, worthy of ridicule, worthy of repetitive degradation on ye olde Internet. It is the kind of mentality that I deal with every day, the chiding people for being passionate about something and finding joy in all things nerdy, the belittling, the ostracizing.

Mind you, I'm speaking of my days at my high school.

While I've come to endure it there, I'm sure it's at least a bit understandable that I find it deplorable on a site 1) populated chiefly by adults and, far more importantly, 2) populated entirely by people so passionate about Disney that they devote innumerable hours, dollars, and (insert standard unit of measure for emotional investment here) to it that they themselves are, whether they like it or not, as much a member of nerd culture as the people they coldly and unnecessarily ridicule.

Never mind that he seems to heigh ho it over to the parks with the intention of channelling some amalgam of Grumpy and Donald better than the characters themselves could.

Aaand I'm rambling within hours of finally not being a gigantic lurker on the forums (seriously, I've been in the shadows since 2007); we're off to a good start already. :brick:
Good God you have a way with words! Only two posts from you and already I can no longer control myself: will you marry me? :wave:

I shall now forever have an image of Spirit in my mind as a cross between Grumpy and Donald. :lol:
 

Captain Chaos

Well-Known Member
True, opinions are not wrong. I just disagree with his opinions. People are allowed to call out bad aspects, like he did about the storybook circus section. I dont agree with him on his claims but he is allowed to say them as long as he does not call people fanbois. I disagree about the video screens being environment ruiners and that the only people playing SotMK are teenage fanbois.

OK, well all he saw playing were teenagers and adults... Again, just reported what he saw... Maybe you'll see more kids than he did playing... Doesn't mean he was wrong... It is a trip report (that I assume will wind up moved tomorrow)... He gave his opinions, which are neither right or wrong... And Opinions that no one has to agree with...

And, well, in realty, we ARE fanboys, or fanbois, however you want to spell it... It isn't a derogatory term... Why are people so mad at that???

You can dislike anything but if all you do is go on about negatives it shows that you are biased and that your opinion is not valid.

And if all you do is speak positives, it shows you are biased and that your opinion is not valid.. Works both ways...
 
Good God you have a way with words! Only two posts from you and already I can no longer control myself: will you marry me? :wave:

I shall now forever have an image of Spirit in my mind as a cross between Grumpy and Donald. :lol:

Ahaha, I'm probably at my most incoherent right now, but thank you! And I'd take you up on that, but I'm in a committed relationship with Dole Whips; I'm sure you'll understand.

Anywho. This thread has gotten me thinking about it, and I'm tempted to do SotMK when I'm next there; I'd like to judge it for myself!
 

Pitchforkman

New Member
OK, well all he saw playing were teenagers and adults... Again, just reported what he saw... Maybe you'll see more kids than he did playing... Doesn't mean he was wrong... It is a trip report (that I assume will wind up moved tomorrow)... He gave his opinions, which are neither right or wrong... And Opinions that no one has to agree with...

And, well, in realty, we ARE fanboys, or fanbois, however you want to spell it... It isn't a derogatory term... Why are people so mad at that???

You make valid points so for me to call you a Disney fanboy or i guess a Spiderman fanboy based upon your avatar, which i wish i knew who that was, is okay since my tone and context is in a positive manner. His tone and context is that of an insulting nature. That is the problem i am having.
 

Pitchforkman

New Member
Ahaha, I'm probably at my most incoherent right now, but thank you! And I'd take you up on that, but I'm in a committed relationship with Dole Whips; I'm sure you'll understand.

Anywho. This thread has gotten me thinking about it, and I'm tempted to do SotMK when I'm next there; I'd like to judge it for myself!

I partook in SotMK with my friend and my nephew and we all loved it. So that is one 26 year old guy, one 25 year old woman and a 4 year old boy that loved it.
 

Captain Chaos

Well-Known Member
You make valid points so for me to call you a Disney fanboy or i guess a Spiderman fanboy based upon your avatar, which i wish i knew who that was, is okay since my tone and context is in a positive manner. His tone and context is that of an insulting nature. That is the problem i am having.

OK, understandable... :)

I figured there had to be something you didn't like since fanboy really isn't a derogatory term...

And yea, I'm a Spiderman fanboy, love the ride.. one of my favorite comics... but that is for another thread.. And I am not afraid to admit, I am a Star Wars geek and a Potter-head (is that allowed to be admitted to here????)....
 
To clarify, it's not the use of "fanboi" (though I prefer fanboy/fangirl/anything that doesn't completely slaughter the term); I proudly identify myself as a fangirl of many, many things and I live for fandom. It's the context and the tone that really makes the bile rise, especially given that everybody on here is, by default and by definition, an active and passionate member of the WDW fandom. So.

Also, in regards to something I overlooked in my rampage in defense of fanboys' honors-- show buildings and the bad covering-up thereof. That is definitely something I can agree is detrimental. Universal Creative messed up Hogwarts from certain angles in its failure to cover up a huge part of the FJ showbuilding, and to see Disney making the same mistake is definitely disappointing. Again, I'll have to see for myself.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Was it something I said?

Seriously, I wish people would simply read what is written and THINK about what is being said. Take the facts for what they are and take the opinion from the perspective and experience offered.

And please get off the fanboi deal. I never coined the term. It came from some of the most vaunted Imagineers in Glendale and is well-known.

I am a fanboi as much as anyone else, although my standards and perspective certainly are not typical.
 

Pitchforkman

New Member
OK, understandable... :)

I figured there had to be something you didn't like since fanboy really isn't a derogatory term...

And yea, I'm a Spiderman fanboy, love the ride.. one of my favorite comics... but that is for another thread.. And I am not afraid to admit, I am a Star Wars geek and a Potter-head (is that allowed to be admitted to here????)....

Oh i will be the first to admit that I am a Potter, Marvel, and Metallica fanboy/nerd
 

Pitchforkman

New Member
Agreed. Comments like "opinions can't be wrong" fail to consider such variables as good taste vs. bad taste and the fact that some opinions are uninformed.

I think he means more like saying that, "In My opinion grass is orange" that is wrong. Taste can never be wrong.
 

Captain Chaos

Well-Known Member
Was it something I said?

Seriously, I wish people would simply read what is written and THINK about what is being said. Take the facts for what they are and take the opinion from the perspective and experience offered.

And please get off the fanboi deal. I never coined the term. It came from some of the most vaunted Imagineers in Glendale and is well-known.

I am a fanboi as much as anyone else, although my standards and perspective certainly are not typical.

Any more reports coming from you about your recent trip?? I'm interested in your trip over all...
 

Pitchforkman

New Member
Was it something I said?

Seriously, I wish people would simply read what is written and THINK about what is being said. Take the facts for what they are and take the opinion from the perspective and experience offered.

And please get off the fanboi deal. I never coined the term. It came from some of the most vaunted Imagineers in Glendale and is well-known.

I am a fanboi as much as anyone else, although my standards and perspective certainly are not typical.

It is hard to take your points seriously when you come off as hostile by the tone and context you are using the word. Tone is a big thing. I would love to read more of your opinion but if you just attack others it becomes hard to bare.
 
Was it something I said?

Seriously, I wish people would simply read what is written and THINK about what is being said. Take the facts for what they are and take the opinion from the perspective and experience offered.

And please get off the fanboi deal. I never coined the term. It came from some of the most vaunted Imagineers in Glendale and is well-known.

I am a fanboi as much as anyone else, although my standards and perspective certainly are not typical.

Sir, no one is saying you coined the term. Nobody has anything against the term. It's all in the usage. Every time you used it in your post, it was negative and downright derogatory.

Fanboy/fangirl is, for all intents and purposes, synonymous with nerd. To quote one of my heroes--

tumblr_m12wf1UMBT1rs27x9o1_500.jpg


And that's what the fanboys you spoke of for no reason but to ridicule and belittle were doing. That's what fanboys do. And that's what places like these, people on forums like these, should facilitate, not insult.

Your very valid, insightful criticisms of the attraction itself were dwarfed by the vicious ridiculing of teh nerdz, and while I admire the former I felt the need to comment on the latter and the detrimental effects therein. :)
 

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