Spirited Thoughts, News, Observations etc.

OK, hide the women and the children ... most importantly send the fanbois to bed with their plush and tell them to hide under the covers ... waaaay down under them because it's time for some Spirited thoughts, observations, news and anecdotes from a long weekend at The World Maintenance Forgot, yes WDW.

Where to start? With a conclusion? Or should I just work on down?

Should I start with the good ... things like seeing friends, having great weather, appreciating some things that the fan community tends to ignore and seeing EPCOT in its best colors?

Or ... do I focus on everything else? Because all going to WDW did for me this weekend was exceed my already amazingly low expectations for the state of WDW infrastructure and show quality (hey, they did exceed expectations, right?) and get me more excited for my future visits to DLP, possibly BGW, DL ... and, hopefully in the not too distant future, the Asian resorts again too.

Let's start with the basics. Freshness. If you had visited WDW in 2006 and hadn't returned in six years, you would find no appreciable new product in three of four parks.

You would find show quality that already had issues showing more issues than the typical fanboi in therapy. Well, that's if you can actually get to the MK because the crumbling monorail system has to be shut down all day from 11:30 a.m to 6 p.m. to do track work in the midst of one of the busiest times of the year ... imagine paying $500-700 a night for a room at the GF or Poly with monorail convenience touted (wonder what guest recovery they are doing there!) ... but let's assume you find your way there.

Let's start with the stuff the fan community is all lathered up for, namely the Storybook Circus mini-land expansion of Fantasyland. What did I think of it?

Not very much at all.

As usual, the hype was much greater than the product, which can't be viewed in a vacuum in a park that is crumbling and has no wow factor at all anymore.

In the day, Dumbo's primary colors and the red painted construction fences all around come off as garish ... befitting a circus, no doubt ... but Old Man Disney was no more a fan of circuses than he was of amusement parks and piers and the shady elements that all attracted. So, we have a new spinner that is prettier than the last. And it spins high enough to peek over construction walls and we all know how much that has become en vogue in O-Town of late.

It is a beautiful kinetic piece at night when the lighting is largely coming from the white and red bulbs that rim the queue (likely more of a makeshift deal now until the old Dumbo starts spinning across the way) and the LEDs embedded in the fountains underneath. But it is still Dumbo.

Sort of like the Barnstormer is still the Barnstormer, just missing much in the way of theming. Its prior incarnation had some whimsy, this doesn't. But they weren't getting rid of the only kiddie coaster in the park, so this was a cheap fix. Oh, and thanks to Bob Iger working with a chainsaw, you can now watch Disney buses and CMs driving to/fro work behind the MK as you walk up the queue if you peer left. I will never get what Phil and TDO have against trees, but they certainly do.

Nothing else is open beyond a much nicer train station that is still a train station ... and a set of new restrooms (someone needs to page Talking Head to this thread stat!) What I found amazing is that Disney was too cheap to actually connect these facilities to the park's main water supply, so they are using water from the immediate area that is untreated (or perhaps non-filtered/cleansed is more appropriate) so you have bizarre signs saying the water is 'non potable' (that means you can't drink it for those with limited vocabularies) over toilets. I know Disney's prices are crazy for a Coke, but over the toilet?!? ... Of course, the reason is they have colored the water blue because otherwise it would be a very icky color and folks would constantly be complaining that something isn't right.

Are the details nice? Sure. But they are very basic. I was much more excited by leaf patterns in the walkways around Old Man Island at Dixie Landings 20 years ago than I am by various hoof prints and 'peanuts' embedded in this area.

So much of this area also suffers from having both exposed coaster track (Disney fanbois seem to have issues with this at UNI) and show buildings just sticking out like a Duffy alone on a shelf full of Minnies.

If this is what Disney believes will raise the bar in O-Town ... well, no ... they don't. They understand what they have built and why. This is about capacity ... and NEXT GEN ... and keeping folks from being bored out of their minds by offering something 'new'.

It's in 'soft opening' now, but let's be blunt: they had to get this open and open now. They have so little capacity in this park due to 15 years of taking away and not adding. MK just isn't a very pleasant place right now at all with crowds and walls and lots of attractions that have seen far better days.

Again, it also seems that Ops and WDI simply can't get on the same page no matter what ... Dumbo opens with small plants where every little kid (and plenty of big ones) are going to stand, so the result is the foliage that was there Monday was trampled and mostly dead or dying by Friday. How they miss these basics is beyond me, although I think communication and common sense are both lacking.

Now, what else was 'new' (to me) at MK? Spin the Fanboi? Pin the Tail on Meg? Dole Whip tees (I mean, REALLY?!?!) ... or how about the latest way to hook OCD fanbois and why it is so important to NEXT GEN.

I'll see you all a little later ... like in the next post!
 

Captain Chaos

Well-Known Member
I think he means more like saying that, "In My opinion grass is orange" that is wrong. Taste can never be wrong.

Thank you... If someone says "My opinion is 2 + 2 = 5" they are obviously wrong because it is a mathematical equation that is proven... And in reality, they cannot form that opinion... They have to bring proof to the table since it is proven already that 2 + 2 = 4... Just like, yes, grass is green and someone offering an "opinion" the grass is orange is obviously wrong, since again, there is fact based on the grass being green...

However, those aren't the kinds of opinions we are discussing... we are talking about a theme park experience and someone's observations... We are debating 74's tastes... if someone states their opinion that Barnstormer is worse now than it was before, they are neither right or wrong... Just like someone who states their opinion about a movie or a TV or a song... So, 74's opinions are not wrong...

With that, time to call it a night... Ciao fanbois.. LOL... (I keed I keed)
 

HMButler79

Member
All right, let's analyze this shall we?

The Good
*Disneyland is doing very well and the DCA expansion will be outstanding.
*Bringing in Lasseter and Pixar.
*Resurrected 2D Animation.

The Bad
*His complete lack of enthusiasm, Businessman Persona and scripted speech and press releases that sound like they were written by a robot.
*Putting people in power who should not be, Jay Rasulo, Tom Staggs, Meg Crofton.
*Ridiculous and repulsive marketing initiatives. (Disney Parks: Where Dreams Come True, Year of a Million Dreams,Changing Rapunzel to "Tangled". Let's remove all instances of "Walt" and remove any instance of an 's and just use the term "Disney" in all cases)
*the NextGen BS
and of course his complete lack of supervision or interest in the operating of WDW.

What fantasy is this? Princess and Frog was SUPPOSED to be the 3rd Golden Age. But The Eatherman made sure to put a stop to that. There is not ONE 2-D project in the pipeline. Wreckt It Ralph, Frozen (God help us) will be all CGI/Dreamworks-y....
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Why don't we discuss show quality? Important to all, right? Or to all who aren't just happy to be at WDW, so they basically don't see anything but what they chose to (WDW as religion, discuss)?

I never made it to DAK on this trip nor saw Fantasmic, so no Disco Yeti, Dinos that don't move and missing dragons (or Mickeys) to rip on ... didn't ride Splash Mtn, so can't comment on what a disaster that has been. And BTMRR is under rehab, so that mess may get fixed.

That's a whole lot of bad show, right?

Everything else must be working in great shape then? OK, at least decent, right?

Guess again.

With the exceptions of Mansion, HoP and Mission Space, EVERY attraction I experienced in MK and EPCOT had significant show quality issues. From dead AAs in SSE ... to missing Blackbeard (sometime with sound, sometime nothing at all) in PoC ... to having the Bouncing Tigger covered by a black blanket/tarp with a white tag glowing (as well as dust that had settled) in Pooh ... to so many things wrong on attractions like Small World and Peoplemover that I simply stopped counting at double digits, it would appear WDW is utterly incapable, unwilling or just plain ignorant as to putting on quality show.

I'm going to say something provocative (yeah, I guess talking about Storybook Circus for what it is wasn't bad enough!) now, so you folks who don't want to hear WDW criticized (yet seem to LOVE threads like this to pop in to and pop off) might wish to leave the MAGICal room.

But after talking to some friends and observing, I feel confident in saying that if the OLC ran WDW, at least 75% of all attractions across four parks would have to be closed immediately to simply meet stipulations for SQS that TWDC itself mandates.

You think about that when you are in a neglected park that is falling apart and you're trying to convince yourself that your vacation dollars were well spent, so everything is really fine ... well, except that it isn't.
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Your very valid, insightful criticisms of the attraction itself were dwarfed by the vicious ridiculing of teh nerdz, and while I admire the former I felt the need to comment on the latter and the detrimental effects therein. :)
But what's the point of a vanilla Spirit?

To prevent him from presenting his thoughts in his own inimitable style is as mistaken as turning Alien Encounter into Stitch. It takes a riveting experience and turns it into something so bland and 'unoffensive' as to become meaningless, pointless.
 

shmmrname

Active Member
I only read a few sentences before realizing I didn't want to continue - as I think his writing is fairly transparent (showing arrogance, not just opinions).

However, some of the discussions had later have been worthwhile.

One note from me:
I personally like SotMK for many reasons. I view it as a relatively risk-free chance to offer a different experience than what's already offered at the world. It's fairly unobtrusive, serving a somewhat niche group without being a detriment to the experience to the vast majority. Interactive entertainment is not going away, it is only increasing - and I think it's good to see Disney trying to feel their way around the space instead of launching a massive hit-or-miss one-off attraction.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Any more reports coming from you about your recent trip?? I'm interested in your trip over all...

Absolutely. I got distracted by something on the homefront and when I returned I saw all the typical drivel (yes, that is my opinion of much of what was posted and yes it is disparaging to anyone who might have written it) about my 'tude being more important than anything I might have to say that shocks people's World or world views.

Headed offline shortly, but if you have any specific questions ask away ...
 

Kiff

Member
But after talking to some friends and observing, I feel confident in saying that if the OLC ran WDW, at least 75% of all attractions across four parks would have to be closed immediately to simply meet stipulations for SQS that TWDC itself mandates.

Ouch. That's just a sad state of affairs. Depressing.
 

disney fan 13

Well-Known Member
Why don't we discuss show quality? Important to all, right? Or to all who aren't just happy to be at WDW, so they basically don't see anything but what they chose to (WDW as religion, discuss)?

I never made it to DAK on this trip nor saw Fantasmic, so no Disco Yeti, Dinos that don't move and missing dragons (or Mickeys) to rip on ... didn't ride Splash Mtn, so can't comment on what a disaster that has been. And BTMRR is under rehab, so that mess may get fixed.

That's a whole lot of bad show, right?

Everything else must be working in great shape then? OK, at least decent, right?

Guess again.

With the exceptions of Mansion, HoP and Mission Space, EVERY attraction I experienced in MK and EPCOT had significant show quality issues. From dead AAs in SSE ... to missing Blackbeard (sometime with sound, sometime nothing at all) in PoC ... to having the Bouncing Tigger covered by a black blanket/tarp with a white tag glowing (as well as dust that had settled) in Pooh ... to so many things wrong on attractions like Small World and Peoplemover that I simply stopped counting at double digits, it would appear WDW is utterly incapable, unwilling or just plain ignorant as to putting on quality show.

I'm going to say something provocative (yeah, I guess talking about Storybook Circus for what it is wasn't bad enough!) now, so you folks who don't want to hear WDW criticized (yet seem to LOVE threads like this to pop in to and pop off) might wish to leave the MAGICal room.

But after talking to some friends and observing, I feel confident in saying that if the OLC ran WDW, at least 75% of all attractions across four parks would have to be closed immediately to simply meet stipulations for SQS that TWDC itself mandates.

You think about that when you are in a neglected park that is falling apart and you're trying to convince yourself that your vacation dollars were well spent, so everything is really fine ... well, except that it isn't.


Good post
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
But after talking to some friends and observing, I feel confident in saying that if the OLC ran WDW, at least 75% of all attractions across four parks would have to be closed immediately to simply meet stipulations for SQS that TWDC itself mandates.

Maybe, they should sell the Parks. About a year ago that would be a scary thought but now I think it would actually work better or of course they could replace TDO with TDA Style leadership
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
It is hard to take your points seriously when you come off as hostile by the tone and context you are using the word. Tone is a big thing. I would love to read more of your opinion but if you just attack others it becomes hard to bare.

I understand tone quite well ... and I use it quite effectively.

I don't mean to be hostile to anyone here unless they wish to defend the management and policies that are taking one of my favorite places and turning it into a truly Walmart quality experience. I don't care if they don't like my tone.

Everyone else should be able to read and grasp what my posts are saying. I'm not writing this stuff on a college level.
 

Pitchforkman

New Member
More attacks. How am I not surprised. I thought that people could express their opinions like adults without attacking people but I was wrong I guess.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
But what's the point of a vanilla Spirit?

To prevent him from presenting his thoughts in his own inimitable style is as mistaken as turning Alien Encounter into Stitch. It takes a riveting experience and turns it into something so bland and 'unoffensive' as to become meaningless, pointless.

The Spirit isn't vanilla and he never will be ... he speaks his mind, he speaks honestly and from the heart and he is a bit arrogant because he does have the knowledge, perspective and history to back up what he posts as 'opinion' ... I didn't see fit to respond to the poster you quoted because it appears she is someone who joined last summer and has all of five posts on the site (are they all in this thread?) ... when that happens, I'm always wart of motive and I just have no desire to do the same waltz about language, tone and useage.

Read what I write and if you have a different view, post it ... but don't call me on my facts because facts are facts no matter if you wish the world were flat or WDW was run the way it was 20 years ago.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
OMG.. now I've heard it all... Disney invented the fanboy title... and phonetic spelling :ROFLOL: talk about distortion fields...

When will you all realize people write like this for a reason.. to stir up noise and attention. It's an attention grab and you all are being played like fiddles.
 

Kiff

Member
I'll be back at the world next week. It should be interesting to see WDW after my most recent trip to DL in January. Can't say I'm really looking forward to it as much as usual. I guess I'll enjoy a good meal at California Grill and a couple days at IoA :lookaroun
 

shmmrname

Active Member
OMG.. now I've heard it all... Disney invented the fanboy title... and phonetic spelling :ROFLOL: talk about distortion fields...

When will you all realize people write like this for a reason.. to stir up noise and attention. It's an attention grab and you all are being played like fiddles.

If you really scour through the other messages, you can get some good out of the conversation.
 

Pitchforkman

New Member
The Spirit isn't vanilla and he never will be ... he speaks his mind, he speaks honestly and from the heart and he is a bit arrogant because he does have the knowledge, perspective and history to back up what he posts as 'opinion' ... I didn't see fit to respond to the poster you quoted because it appears she is someone who joined last summer and has all of five posts on the site (are they all in this thread?) ... when that happens, I'm always wart of motive and I just have no desire to do the same waltz about language, tone and useage.

Read what I write and if you have a different view, post it ... but don't call me on my facts because facts are facts no matter if you wish the world were flat or WDW was run the way it was 20 years ago.


I truely believe you do not know what facts are and like what Flynnibus you are just here to stir up trouble. You just attacked a fellow poster for no reason and acted like a child. I assume you are older than me and it makes me feel sad for the state of the world when an older gentlemen acts like a child.

I am happy that when i go to WDW and when my family and friends go they do not have to suffer people like you ruining the world for them.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
OMG.. now I've heard it all... Disney invented the fanboy title... and phonetic spelling :ROFLOL: talk about distortion fields...

No, they didn't. Again, I wish people would read what is actually written.

the term with a 'I' at the end was coined in the 90s, by a group of Imagineers (yes, gay men ... shocking I know) who didn't like that their work was being criticized by fans.

Now, it is more mainstream and their derogatory term is 'foamer' ...

Again, that is fact. You want to argue it? Seems like everyone is argumentative tonight.

When will you all realize people write like this for a reason.. to stir up noise and attention. It's an attention grab and you all are being played like fiddles.

Of course! Who wouldn't want people to read what they write and comment (whether they agree or disagree etc)? ... But I don't like it when people decide that instead of discussing the meat of my points that they'd rather discuss what an awful human being I am because I tend to be blunt.
 

Pitchforkman

New Member
I'll be back at the world next week. It should be interesting to see WDW after my most recent trip to DL in January. Can't say I'm really looking forward to it as much as usual. I guess I'll enjoy a good meal at California Grill and a couple days at IoA :lookaroun

I am curious how you spend more than a day at IoA? I had fun when i was there but literally i did everything i needed to do in matter of 4 hours. But that is just me, according to '74 I am a fanboi who likes a walmart experience.
 

Pitchforkman

New Member
No, they didn't. Again, I wish people would read what is actually written.

the term with a 'I' at the end was coined in the 90s, by a group of Imagineers (yes, gay men ... shocking I know) who didn't like that their work was being criticized by fans.

Now, it is more mainstream and their derogatory term is 'foamer' ...

Again, that is fact. You want to argue it? Seems like everyone is argumentative tonight.



Of course! Who wouldn't want people to read what they write and comment (whether they agree or disagree etc)? ... But I don't like it when people decide that instead of discussing the meat of my points that they'd rather discuss what an awful human being I am because I tend to be blunt.

Sorry you are completely wrong about the term fanboi. It was not created by Imagineers in the 90s.

When your points are ruined by the fact that you resort to childish attacks it is hard to discuss your points. Like the point that i completely disagree about SotMK
 

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