Spirited Spring Break News, Observations & Thoughts ...

[Figments Friend]

So i wandered by and see the topic is about the recent price increases and AP issues at DL.

Thought i might comment on the matter.

I recently visited DIsneyland for a few days and found it more crowded then expected for early May.
Interested in returning again in September, i ended up upgrading my ticket to a Deluxe Annual Passport before i left.
It made sense to do so, even though i am on the opposite coast, purely from a price comparison standpoint when looking at multi-day Park Hopper options.
I had been considering it before visiting, and rumors a few months back regarding a planned price increase around the start of the Summer season were also a driver in getting one now.
The discounts and other benefits were not the driving factor, it was mostly being able to save $100+ on admission costs next time.



So here is one APer that holds one as a cost saving strategy.
I am sure there are several others out there that also have plans to visit again within a year, did the numbers, and decided to buy one too.

Perhaps this is why there has been such a influx of APers flooding the Parks.
That many more of them are being bought by *out of town* fans solely to save a bit of money on a future visit, as well as locals visiting more often.

Just a thought.

 

[bhg469]

If they want to put a Frozen ride in Norway there is plenty of room between there and Mexico for a show building.

I want this rumor to go away. World showcase is no place for characters. Especially when you are talking about frozen, which will be sequeled and direct to dvd released to death. Norway should be the focus, not a movie.

 

[CDavid]

Per Jason Garcia, the guy behind my magic plus is leaving the company…

Fall guy, or did he possibly see the handwriting on the wall?

 

[PhotoDave219]

Fall guy, or did he possibly see the handwriting on the wall?

No idea but Steve made a thread for this on its own on the main page.

 

[Travel Junkie]

And honestly, how much more could capacity be increased in DLR? It doesn't exactly have the unused land that WDW has and any time you increase attendence, you put more strain on their infrastructure (parking/trams).

There is room to add ride capacity in several places. A TL redo would add capacity with taking out the low capacity subs and innovations building with higher capacity attractions. There is a big plot of land between Frontierland and Fantasyland (Big Thunder Ranch) that could be used for a whole new land. They could even relocate TDA off site and have that whole area behind ToonTown. DLR has been very efficient with their use of land and the fact they cram in a ton more rides than MK in a much smaller area shows they know how make the most with what they have.
The primary issue with DL is the walkways and the size of the shops. There are several bottle necks throughout the park that would need master planning to account for increased foot traffic. The alley's behind Main St are being readied for guests and will act as a pressure valve on busy days, but there places like Adventureland that are terrible on the lightest of days.
As you mentioned the other main issue is the infrastructure. They need the necessary means to move people in and out of the resort efficiently.

 

[Travel Junkie]

So i wandered by and see the topic is about the recent price increases and AP issues at DL.

Thought i might comment on the matter.

I recently visited DIsneyland for a few days and found it more crowded then expected for early May.
Interested in returning again in September, i ended up upgrading my ticket to a Deluxe Annual Passport before i left.
It made sense to do so, even though i am on the opposite coast, purely from a price comparison standpoint when looking at multi-day Park Hopper options.
I had been considering it before visiting, and rumors a few months back regarding a planned price increase around the start of the Summer season were also a driver in getting one now.
The discounts and other benefits were not the driving factor, it was mostly being able to save $100+ on admission costs next time.



So here is one APer that holds one as a cost saving strategy.
I am sure there are several others out there that also have plans to visit again within a year, did the numbers, and decided to buy one too.

Perhaps this is why there has been such a influx of APers flooding the Parks.
That many more of them are being bought by *out of town* fans solely to save a bit of money on a future visit, as well as locals visiting more often.

Just a thought.

There has definitely been an influx of out of towners buying AP’s. You can’t buy any longer than a 5 day ticket and with the AP discounts, you plan 2 trips in a year and it more than pays for itself. I run into people all the time taking their 1st or second trip to DLR. They are either tired of WDW or finally saw DLR as a viable option. Carsland is a big reason why people are heading west.
Anaheim hotel occupancy rates have jumped since DCA 2.0 debuted with more currently under construction as a true second gate has given out on town visitors a reason to come. Side note: Disney you want to make more money in California, build more hotels. You are running at extremely high occupancy at very high rates.
The biggest factor with locals buying the passes however is the introduction of monthly payments at zero interest for Californian’s. A $379 So Cal pass may sounds like a lot, but roughly $30 a month sounds affordable to many people. The number of AP’s skyrocketed ever since monthly payments were introduced.

 

[flynnibus]

And honestly, how much more could capacity be increased in DLR? It doesn't exactly have the unused land that WDW has and any time you increase attendence, you put more strain on their infrastructure (parking/trams).

There is a lot of space on the West side tied up in things like the festival area, BBQ, etc. There is also expansion slots in DCA. But yes, parking infrastructure must be addressed for the resort to support more crowds.

Which is exactly one of the ways APs put extra strain on the park vs a normal guest. The visiting and travel patterns differ for 1 or 2 people groups that show up for a few hours vs a family that travels together and stays all day.

 

[flynnibus]

Loyal fans will not leave. Those that are there only to get something for practically nothing and make DL their own personal playground with no regard to the visiting guest, may be fans, but, they are not interested in sharing the joy. It's a business not a haven for the emotionally dependent that just want to hang out and have found a good excuse/place to do so.

This is what is misunderstood about DLR and it's place in SoCal culture tho. Generations have been brought up with the idea of 'hitting DLR' as a low to medium impact diversion. It can be like 'going to the movies' - something you did on short notice, you would do frequently, and you have found family memories and traditions that you passed onto your kids. The 'low barrier to entry' and 'high frequency' are very much part of the visiting experience many have been brought up with. WDW is nothing like that and stems largely from WDW's location and Florida's demographics.

That immersion into people's lives is what makes DLR so special to so many.. and why so many think of it as 'their park' and not Disney's business.

With the advent of the Annual Pass, that tradition carried on with more recent generations at higher volumes. DLR is a place you can goto without it being a vacation or special event. It's like going to the community park and taking in the sights and seeing who you might run into.

They aren't necessarily disrespecting what the park is, or where it came from, but rather how the park is experienced and viewed is VERY different from how WDW (vacation spot) is.

The problem is.. like most things.. when done in excess good things go bad. The evolution of how the APs visit puts different strains on the parks vs a vacation tourist. And the revenue models and spend per guest are different as well. You can make businesses to support either... but when the balances get out of whack, your model and limits might become a problem. And that is where DLR has been since the 50th with their ever increasing AP customer base.

 

[Kman101]

I never had an issue with guests at Disneyland. They were actually much friendlier guests, IMHO, and the cast members were fantastic. You could feel the pride they had. I talked to far more guests there than I ever have in WDW in terms of being solo in the parks. Someone actually apologized there for nearly running into me! I just get a dirty look at WDW.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Someone actually apologized there for nearly running into me!

That's because they were from BC or Alberta.

 

[flynnibus]

I never had an issue with guests at Disneyland. They were actually much friendlier guests, IMHO, and the cast members were fantastic. You could feel the pride they had. I talked to far more guests there than I ever have in WDW in terms of being solo in the parks. Someone actually apologized there for nearly running into me! I just get a dirty look at WDW.

Like most guest or CM stories... YMMV. DLR has it's share of disinterested teens or college kids who don't put on the company face all the time.. or are texting.. or hanging out vs helping guests, etc.. and guest stories vary wildly.

I think over all... both have their vices, but when it comes to guests and CMs... anything goes

 

[Cesar R M]

Per Jason Garcia, the guy behind my magic plus is leaving the company…

so, heads are rolling already.
I wonder how big the overrun was...

Everyone knows that "running global business and real-estate development teams" makes one the best qualified to head a billion-dollar technology project.

I wonder what they were thinking honestly.
The worst I can imagine would be:
Iger not having a single clue on who to trust for a Tech project.. and thus he asks for a recommendation on who to use.
He then gets the recommendation from a guy who doesn't know crap about tech... and recommends a friend "who can use a computer good" for this project..

 

[Kman101]

I'm aware that everyone's experience can be different. I frequent WDW more as a semi-local. I stand by my thoughts on that. Not dissing WDW cast members at allll though. I saw some great CMs when I was last here. Waving to kids, smiling, personable. And the woman at the ticket booth was SUPER nice. Really nice lady.

 

[PhotoDave219]

so, heads are rolling already.
I wonder how big the overrun was...

I wonder what they were thinking honestly.
The worst I can imagine would be:
Iger not having a single clue on who to trust for a Tech project.. and thus he asks for a recommendation on who to use.
He then gets the recommendation from a guy who doesn't know crap about tech... and recommends a friend "who can use a computer good" for this project..

Well it's the management principles that Michael Eisner put down… according to the book Disneywar, his thoughts were that a good manager can manage everything and thus managers get moved around every 2 to 3 years. With the idea being there just managing people who know what they're doing.

Now while on paper this may seem like a good idea, in practice it's pretty horrible. You're putting people in charge of functions and processes that they are not experts instead of promoting people who have done that particular role their entire lives. For example, you do not want a guy who was done nothing but one who crosses his entire life suddenly being in charge of a theme park. It's just not a good idea.

Likewise, you do not want any company running a nightlife work entertainment district as well as a transportation division. Nothing good can come of that.

Instead you need to leave experts in their fields and continue to move them up so they can oversee their fields and from that creativity can evolve. It's better for overall morale.

It's things like these that perpetuate the general idea that managers only shuffle papers and answer emails anymore. They really don't Do Jack. (However babysitting college program kids, that is a task in and of itself that is definitely worth more than $30,000 a year)

From the corporate environments I've worked in at the newspapers I was at and extending to Disney, there is a ridiculous amount of bureaucracy the higher you go up. Most of these executives that we have no clue what they're doing… Most of them you can get rid of without having any impact on your business at all, good or bad. Some of them had a position created because they were a good soldier and they're just collecting a paycheck. Others, it's like you ship them off to work in Hawaii where they can't hurt anything.

My overall thought is that you should have managers that have a background in that particular field. A lot of people just like to have meetings and's fine by them… But that's not my viewpoint of effective leadership in the workforce. I want managers that want to do something and get things accomplished, especially without having to jump through 35,000 levels of bureaucracy to get anything done.

I forget you have the quote of Disney within the past six months… But somebody said something along the lines of "they really like to have meetings"

 

[asianway]

Ah I forgot some folks on here hate the thought of annual passholders. Build capacity and they shall come, new experiences bring out everyone not just the annual passholders.

I have no problem with APs, but I do with the unemployable using them to run their lifestyler businesses from the park. Cap AP entries at 60 a year-all tiers. That should be plenty for all but the most "special" individuals.

 

[flynnibus]

. As for the rest if there is a capacity issue the simple answer is not deplete or cap the customer base but increase the overall capacity inside the resort. It's only going to get worse even if they cap out all the ap's.

You're missing the point. Why add capacity for people not paying their share? Why would you spend huge dollars on expansion to accommodate an audience who isn't going to pay for it?

You're spending money to... give even more away for 'free'..

You remind me of the people screaming for the 3rd gate and yet think that a 3rd gate wouldn't mean higher prices. They aren't going to build it and give it away for free!

By reducing the amount of people who aren't paying much... you increase your revenue/head.. and that makes it more viable to actually invest to get even more PAYING customers.

The guy paying $250 to visit 50 times isn't funding Disney's expansion. It's draining their pockets.

 

[Nubs70]

Well it's the management principles that Michael Eisner put down… according to the book Disneywar, his thoughts were that a good manager can manage everything and thus managers get moved around every 2 to 3 years. With the idea being there just managing people who know what they're doing.

Now while on paper this may seem like a good idea, in practice it's pretty horrible. You're putting people in charge of functions and processes that they are not experts instead of promoting people who have done that particular role their entire lives. For example, you do not want a guy who was done nothing but one who crosses his entire life suddenly being in charge of a theme park. It's just not a good idea.

Likewise, you do not want any company running a nightlife work entertainment district as well as a transportation division. Nothing good can come of that.

Instead you need to leave experts in their fields and continue to move them up so they can oversee their fields and from that creativity can evolve. It's better for overall morale.

It's things like these that perpetuate the general idea that managers only shuffle papers and answer emails anymore. They really don't Do Jack. (However babysitting college program kids, that is a task in and of itself that is definitely worth more than $30,000 a year)

From the corporate environments I've worked in at the newspapers I was at and extending to Disney, there is a ridiculous amount of bureaucracy the higher you go up. Most of these executives that we have no clue what they're doing… Most of them you can get rid of without having any impact on your business at all, good or bad. Some of them had a position created because they were a good soldier and they're just collecting a paycheck. Others, it's like you ship them off to work in Hawaii where they can't hurt anything.

My overall thought is that you should have managers that have a background in that particular field. A lot of people just like to have meetings and's fine by them… But that's not my viewpoint of effective leadership in the workforce. I want managers that want to do something and get things accomplished, especially without having to jump through 35,000 levels of bureaucracy to get anything done.

I forget you have the quote of Disney within the past six months… But somebody said something along the lines of "they really like to have meetings"

Oh how this is so true. I have worked for managers from this mould. They want to control everything but do not have enough knowledge or experience to contribute anything.

 

[flynnibus]

I have no problem with APs, but I do with the unemployable using them to run their lifestyler businesses from the park. Cap AP entries at 60 a year-all tiers. That should be plenty for all but the most "special" individuals.

I've argued long for bulk admission prices with black out dates. Sell admissions in packs of 10 or so.. buy that much up front, you get a discount. Blackouts apply, or do something like 2xtoken pricing for special events.

Add a loyalty program for those who claim they spend more than everyone else... and your bases are covered.

You get repeat visitors... APs get their 'loyalty' recognition.. and those that are the extreme in the program have to pay up to play.

 

[Stevek]

Loyal fans will not leave. Those that are there only to get something for practically nothing and make DL their own personal playground with no regard to the visiting guest, may be fans, but, they are not interested in sharing the joy.

I guess it depends on what you consider Loyal. We are 13 year AP holders, almost always buy 1-2 meals for 4, generally have a few adult beverages and visit 10+ times a year. We don't even begin to fall under the description you provide above. We don't go because it's a "playground," we go because we (used to) enjoy the family experience.

Even us loyal fans will leave...It is highly likely that we will not be back next year as the crowding, down times, and to a lesser extend refurbs (which are good IMO) are making the parks far less enjoyable. Now the people who are there on an weekly or several times a week basis...those are beyond "Loyal Fans" and likely have no life outside of Disneyland. Those are the people DL needs to get rid of.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

The guy paying $250 to visit 50 times isn't funding Disney's expansion. It's draining their pockets.

No wonder so many people buy annual passes, even with blackout days a year's admission for $289 is a steal.

Good luck getting 12 months of gym membership for that price.