Spirited Spring Break News, Observations & Thoughts ...

bhg469

Well-Known Member
It would seem like they are finally reacting to the overcrowding in the parks but I agree, there could be different motivations. It's easy to make adjustments in cost of admission based on financial models but social patterns are more difficult to predict. It seems like they keep taking a hit-and-miss approach to trying ways to even out the crowds, discovering what works and what doesn't. Basic reasoning would dictate that you can continue to raise prices until the crows thin to more reasonable levels. I find it interesting how that's now affecting purchases within the parks. It shows that the raising-prices approach does not always work. If you are popular, you raise capacity -- build more parks and attractions. Perhaps that's the business model Disney should really be focusing on.
Unfortunately their business plan seems to be, more money right now. They are failing to keep some of the most loyal fans interested, except for those who would be happy with anything Disney gives them. A fifth gate and reasonable hotel rates would ensure people would come for the next 25 years. Their current scheme can only possibly appeal to people that only plan on coming once every 10 years.
 

michmousefan

Well-Known Member
Small world works where it is. Just rip off the aircraft hanger over the queue and load platforms and cut the corner of the Pan queue. That'd be one of the biggest NFL improvement.
One of the reasons why IASW is so much better at Disneyland is because of its exterior queue and load. It's a million times more charming than the cavernous holding pen in FL. My guess as to why the CA setting wasn't replicated in FL was due to weather; the ride would be down much more with the frequent storms in FL.

But yep, it sure would look pretty. Incidentally, if it was to be moved to Epcot... I'd want the same (unrealistic for FL) exterior load and facade that CA has. Damn that superior CA weather!
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
Disney has basically set the precedent they can cap those APs as well, even tho they haven't announced that stop at this point. So Disney can accept a number of them upgrade and then cap that too.

The thing about the crowding is... remember it's not just about total number of APs.. it's about the visiting patterns. If the same number of passes aren't crowded into the same limited available windows... crowding is lessened.

I look at this as Disney *finally* tipping their toes in the pool about altering the AP calendar and model they use. It's hard to step in front of the gravy train.. but looks like TDA finally got some balls to do so. Their motivations may be something different.. but time will tell :)

IMHO, I'm Pretty sure the AP balance and sell-limitations are more related to an analysis on who spends more money and who gives more money per ticket per person per visit.

Does AP holders go too many times? they are giving Disney less than the average disney goer?
so if this is true, No surprise they might be blocking them already.

Since it might be not worth to have a huge bunch of people with APs flooding the parks.
Better flood them with normal visitors who might spend more (for the eyes of the corporate heads)
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
It would seem like they are finally reacting to the overcrowding in the parks but I agree, there could be different motivations. It's easy to make adjustments in cost of admission based on financial models but social patterns are more difficult to predict. It seems like they keep taking a hit-and-miss approach to trying ways to even out the crowds, discovering what works and what doesn't. Basic reasoning would dictate that you can continue to raise prices until the crows thin to more reasonable levels. I find it interesting how that's now affecting purchases within the parks. It shows that the raising-prices approach does not always work. If you are popular, you raise capacity -- build more parks and attractions. Perhaps that's the business model Disney should really be focusing on.

Agree!!, They could be raising the prices of the parks too much.
Causing a cascade shift of funds...
Disney might start losing Hotel capacity money (in WDW case, if clients move to value vs moderate or deluxe or worse...guests start going to third party hotels, like it seems to be happening now) and inside park spending (like food, merchandise and even dining plans)
 
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PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately their business plan seems to be, more money right now. They are failing to keep some of the most loyal fans interested, except for those who would be happy with anything Disney gives them. A fifth gate and reasonable hotel rates would ensure people would come for the next 25 years. Their current scheme can only possibly appeal to people that only plan on coming once every 10 years.

Yeah that's very shortsighted strategy.

I think we all agree a better strategy is reasonable pricing mixed with continual reinvestment in the parts to get people to return every 2 to 3 years and get their money over a very long period of time. Basically going for the long con…
 

Sped2424

Well-Known Member
DLR has approximately 1 million AP’s. It’s a good problem to have, but it is indeed a problem. Friday nights and Sunday’s are an absolute nightmare. On a Sunday you may end up parking in a DLR lot, a DLR CM lot, a Convention Center lot, or a local mall lot. All of this because there are too many AP’s crushing the infrastructure. All of this is before you get into DL which was designed in the 50’s with small walkways and not able to accommodate the crowds it gets on a regular basis.
Long term they need to increase capacity in the current parks and possibly build a 3rd gate. Until that happens though they need to make things as pleasant as possible for those in the parks and capping AP’s is the quickest thing to do. This is not unprecedented. DLR also temporarily suspended AP sales in 2001.
Improve the infrastructure not cap the people going, that's my two cents anyways.
 

Soarin' Over Pgh

Well-Known Member
IMHO, I'm Pretty sure the AP balance and sell-limitations are more related to an analysis on who spends more money and who gives more money per ticket per person per visit.

Does AP holders go too many times? they are giving Disney less than the average disney goer?
so if this is true, No surprise they might be blocking them already.

Since it might be not worth to have a huge bunch of people with APs flooding the parks.
Better flood them with normal visitors who might spend more (for the eyes of the corporate heads)


That's probably it right there- the APers don't spend nearly as much (if at all) compared to day guests and vacationers. Better to limit those who don't shell out the bucks... I guess.

I haven't been to DL for a while so Ireally can't comment on crowds, but from what I gather it's crazy busy on weekends that the passholders aren't blacked out.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
If you are popular, you raise capacity -- build more parks and attractions. Perhaps that's the business model Disney should really be focusing on.

But don't overstate your popularity.

Why build capacity for the people spending the least to be in the park?

Remember... If you are giving something away for 'free' don't expect that to be a true measure of how popular something is. Now of course Disney isn't giving these aps out for free.. But the gate clicks are aignificantly discounted. If your strain is on infrastructure and capacity... The first thing you do is thin out those not contributing equally... And the SoCal ap is an easy target given it's heavy restrictions to start
 

Omnispace

Well-Known Member
Agree!!, They could be raising the prices of the parks too much.
Causing a cascade shift of funds...
Disney might start losing Hotel capacity money (in WDW case if clients move to value vs moderate or deluxe or even if guests start going to third party hotels like it seems to be happening now) and inside park spending (like food, merchandise and even dining plans)

I worked on some theaters once. The parent company was very pleased that the theater complex became their highest grossing concessions sales. It wasn't necessarily about selling tickets but making money off all the other stuff that goes with it. Disney seems to be fixated on merchandise so I can see how anything affecting that will make them reel. I'm sure they make a lot higher margins on food and merchandise than they they do running actual attractions. It's a simple return on investment and all very shortsighted since they lose sight of what really draws people to the parks. One would think they would have learned that lesson after their paid-admission dining and shopping experience (aka Disney's California Adventure) fell flat on it's face.
 

Sped2424

Well-Known Member
But don't overstate your popularity.

Why build capacity for the people spending the least to be in the park?

Remember... If you are giving something away for 'free' don't expect that to be a true measure of how popular something is. Now of course Disney isn't giving these aps out for free.. But the gate clicks are aignificantly discounted. If your strain is on infrastructure and capacity... The first thing you do is thin out those not contributing equally... And the SoCal ap is an easy target given it's heavy restrictions to start
Ah I forgot some folks on here hate the thought of annual passholders. Build capacity and they shall come, new experiences bring out everyone not just the annual passholders.
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
One of the reasons why IASW is so much better at Disneyland is because of its exterior queue and load. It's a million times more charming than the cavernous holding pen in FL. My guess as to why the CA setting wasn't replicated in FL was due to weather; the ride would be down much more with the frequent storms in FL.
Indeed. I've said it before- tear down the metal shed over load and give it the DLP treatment. The Paris version is based on the WDW exterior layout in terms of access. The facade is exposed and visible but the lines, platforms and flumes are all covered. Problem solved.
 

dlfan1313

Member
I have seen/read several brief news stories (in the regular media)today regarding the Disneyland price increases. All of them had a negative tone, albeit a slight one. Two of them mentioned how the price has doubled (since 2003?) and have far outpaced the rates of inflation and income growth. I can't recall ever coming across news stories, (outside of fan sites) about ticket price increases, let alone, ones that offered a negative slant. Have I just missed them in the past or could it be the Disney may have finally hit the threshold for what the general population is willing to pay?
 

Omnispace

Well-Known Member
Indeed. I've said it before- tear down the metal shed over load and give it the DLP treatment. The Paris version is based on the WDW exterior layout in terms of access. The facade is exposed and visible but the lines, platforms and flumes are all covered. Problem solved.

Good observation. Would be nice to have a more outdoor feel to the queue but I'm wondering if there's enough space on that stroller-clogged village street to give the classic facade it's proper due. Disneyland and DLP both have more space for a proper views of the attraction. Perhaps skylights to flood the rear wall with natural light would help -- do something more interesting with the ceiling besides painting it black?
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately their business plan seems to be, more money right now. They are failing to keep some of the most loyal fans interested, except for those who would be happy with anything Disney gives them. A fifth gate and reasonable hotel rates would ensure people would come for the next 25 years. Their current scheme can only possibly appeal to people that only plan on coming once every 10 years.
Loyal fans will not leave. Those that are there only to get something for practically nothing and make DL their own personal playground with no regard to the visiting guest, may be fans, but, they are not interested in sharing the joy. It's a business not a haven for the emotionally dependent that just want to hang out and have found a good excuse/place to do so. Even though I have only been to DL once, I was there long enough to see the cult following that it has. I was shoved out of the way many times by them. I had the feeling that they felt that they owned the park and that the rest of us were infringing on their territory. We always give lip service to how Disney doesn't look down the road in their planning. Seems like they might be doing just that with the new prices.
 

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