Spirited Spring Break News, Observations & Thoughts ...

[Nubs70]

You're missing the point. Why add capacity for people not paying their share? Why would you spend huge dollars on expansion to accommodate an audience who isn't going to pay for it?

You're spending money to... give even more away for 'free'..

You remind me of the people screaming for the 3rd gate and yet think that a 3rd gate wouldn't mean higher prices. They aren't going to build it and give it away for free!

By reducing the amount of people who aren't paying much... you increase your revenue/head.. and that makes it more viable to actually invest to get even more PAYING customers.

The guy paying $250 to visit 50 times isn't funding Disney's expansion. It's draining their pockets.

As I work in chemical sales, we have a simple saying "We do not do free"

 

[dstrawn9889]

nothing is ever 'free' its price is figured into what you are purchasing... just like the toner for a service-contracted copier is 'free'

 

[Goofyernmost]

I guess it depends on what you consider Loyal. We are 13 year AP holders, almost always buy 1-2 meals for 4, generally have a few adult beverages and visit 10+ times a year. We don't even begin to fall under the description you provide above. We don't go because it's a "playground," we go because we (used to) enjoy the family experience.

Even us loyal fans will leave...It is highly likely that we will not be back next year as the crowding, down times, and to a lesser extend refurbs (which are good IMO) are making the parks far less enjoyable. Now the people who are there on an weekly or several times a week basis...those are beyond "Loyal Fans" and likely have no life outside of Disneyland. Those are the people DL needs to get rid of.

Then you would not be a "loyal" fan of Disney, but, a loyal fan of a location where you can gather and use the facilities that others pay a small fortune to get near. If you say that a loyal fan will leave because of cost then there is no real passion to be at Disney. Anyplace, will do as long as it is something that 1) provides a location to gather and 2) provides some entertainment once you're there. Of course, that would involve a very small financial commitment, because that is what is important to accomplish that goal.

It's not that I don't feel sorry for those that have established that particular lifestyle and if I lived in Southern California I might have truly taken advantage of that really big perk. However, at this point, it looks like, to some extent, it is going away. Everyone should have seen it coming once the overload of low paying guest started clogging the parks and made the experience for the high payer less then enjoyable. It's a business not a daycare for kids with nothing to do or nightcare for adults that have found their own personal socializing land.

 

[Nubs70]

I guess it depends on what you consider Loyal. We are 13 year AP holders, almost always buy 1-2 meals for 4, generally have a few adult beverages and visit 10+ times a year. We don't even begin to fall under the description you provide above. We don't go because it's a "playground," we go because we (used to) enjoy the family experience.

Even us loyal fans will leave...It is highly likely that we will not be back next year as the crowding, down times, and to a lesser extend refurbs (which are good IMO) are making the parks far less enjoyable. Now the people who are there on an weekly or several times a week basis...those are beyond "Loyal Fans" and likely have no life outside of Disneyland. Those are the people DL needs to get rid of.

Disney wants those that exceed nominal PCGS.

 

[Mike S]

Hopefully this means Disneyland would be a little less crowded next year when I hope to make my first trip out west.

 

[Sped2424]

You're missing the point. Why add capacity for people not paying their share? Why would you spend huge dollars on expansion to accommodate an audience who isn't going to pay for it?

You're spending money to... give even more away for 'free'..

You remind me of the people screaming for the 3rd gate and yet think that a 3rd gate wouldn't mean higher prices. They aren't going to build it and give it away for free!

By reducing the amount of people who aren't paying much... you increase your revenue/head.. and that makes it more viable to actually invest to get even more PAYING customers.

The guy paying $250 to visit 50 times isn't funding Disney's expansion. It's draining their pockets.

Because paying for a 400 dollar pass seems about good enough a reason for me. Not to mention how many times I as an annual passholder go to restaurants on property, eat on property, sometimes even stay etc etc. Seems more than fair to me it's funny that you don't see annual pass holders as paying customers. But you don't really have any facts to back your claim up other than what you perceive you know. I suppose the same could be said for me, but at least as an annual pass holder I know I spend my share fair of money when I go and visit the parks.

 

[GoofGoof]

Because paying for a 400 dollar pass seems about good enough a reason for me. Not to mention how many times I as an annual passholder go to restaurants on property, eat on property, sometimes even stay etc etc. Seems more than fair to me it's funny that you don't see annual pass holders as paying customers. But you don't really have any facts to back your claim up other than what you perceive you know. I suppose the same could be said for me, but at least as an annual pass holder I know I spend my share fair of money when I go and visit the parks.

Honestly, you are probably not the average AP holder. Since DLR is more of a locals park it's probably not real common that AP holders stay overnight on property. I'm not sure about meals. I would imagine AP holders spend a decent amount of money on food, but there are also a number of food options just outside the park too.

 

[Sped2424]

Honestly, you are probably not the average AP holder. Since DLR is more of a locals park it's probably not real common that AP holders stay overnight on property. I'm not sure about meals. I would imagine AP holders spend a decent amount of money on food, but there are also a number of food options just outside the park too.

I understand but how can we prove that annual pass holders aren't spending in the parks. I know there is a lot of hostility towards the fan Boi lifestyler folks but most of the annual pass holders I know and meet are nothing like that. Most are families and folks who visit the parks with their friends. I feel the lifestyles only add up to a small percentage of that larger pie. I suppose I can't speak for Disneyland fanbase, but many of us on here most likely can't either.

 

[flynnibus]

I suppose the same could be said for me, but at least as an annual pass holder I know I spend my share fair of money when I go and visit the parks.

Ok.. I've told myself I'm not going to waste my time on yet-another-AP-spending discussion so I'll just leave it at this.

• You only have so much discretionary spending power - AP or not.
• Going to the parks more does not increase your spending power or how much discretionary spending you have.
• You aren't going to spend more than you have. So going to the parks 20 times will not mean you spend 20 times as much.
• Getting you in the park more frequently is about collecting a greater percentage of your entertainment spending - but it does not increase how much you have.
• People on vacation are less price sensitive and willing to spend more of their budget than people simply out for entertainment. It's why all vacation spots can get away with charging tourist prices - they aren't going to ruin there vacation by refusing to pay for everything.
• Opportunity is a huge factor in someone's willingness to pay for something. Someone facing "this is my only chance.." will likely opt for the purchase more than someone who can say "It will be here next week too.."
• Disney's costs do not decrease the more you visit - only the revenue they got from you to be let in
• Disney needs to accommodate peak crowding - people visiting for short periods are more expensive to accommodate than a visitor who is there longer (more revenue ops per labor+operations costs)
• Overall, getting X tourists will be more profitable for the company than getting X visits from the same AP
• The AP programs were designed to UPSELL guests into return visits and the seasonal passes were designed to fill in spare capacity - Neither was intended to have guests save $500+ in gate admissions/head.
• Do not use WDW and DL AP behaviors interchangeably - they are not the same customer base, visiting patterns, etc.

 

[bhg469]

You're missing the point. Why add capacity for people not paying their share? Why would you spend huge dollars on expansion to accommodate an audience who isn't going to pay for it?

You're spending money to... give even more away for 'free'..

You remind me of the people screaming for the 3rd gate and yet think that a 3rd gate wouldn't mean higher prices. They aren't going to build it and give it away for free!

By reducing the amount of people who aren't paying much... you increase your revenue/head.. and that makes it more viable to actually invest to get even more PAYING customers.

The guy paying $250 to visit 50 times isn't funding Disney's expansion. It's draining their pockets.

This is why the epcot after 4 pass exists and is a fairly reasonable price. The average guest going to epcot is going to do more dining and drinking there than any other park. It's a safe bet that wdw makes a good amount of money on those who opt to purchase this level of annual pass.

 

[GoofGoof]

I understand but how can we prove that annual pass holders aren't spending in the parks. I know there is a lot of hostility towards the fan Boi lifestyler folks but most of the annual pass holders I know and meet are nothing like that. Most are families and folks who visit the parks with their friends. I feel the lifestyles only add up to a small percentage of that larger pie. I suppose I can't speak for Disneyland fanbase, but many of us on here most likely can't either.

I'm not even talking about lifestyler people who I think are more prevalent at WDW anyway. Since we are talking about DLR AP holders anyway I'll leave the lifestylers out of it. DLR is a different dynamic than WDW. There are probably a much larger portion of WDW AP holders who stay at the resorts and are more like typical tourists. If you stay 2 weeks or more a year an AP is the way to go. At DLR the AP holders are more likely locals who visit DLR more like I would visit my local six flags.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I wouldn't call MM+ Fully rolled out ... you still cannot park hop, or book FP+'s across multiple parks ... and you cannot use your phone to book additional fast passes after you use your initial 3 ... How this wasn't thought of ahead of time is beyond me ... also ... seems like such a simple idea ... but does anyone else think the new entrance turnstiles would be better if the arrow configuration was flipped, instead of the arrow wedging down into the park, it should be the opposite ... so that your not constantly bumping into people leaving the outer reader, while trying to get to the inner reader ... also would help with park exit ... maybe I am thinking about it too much, but I literally was run into every time I was going to the inner reader by someone leaving the outer reader.

You can park hop using same day reservations. I have no problem with the way this is set up right now. My issue is and will continue to be FP+ on attractions where it doesn't belong. This is the result of the insistence of 3 advanced bookings per day. Lowering the advanced bookings will solve many of the issues with the lack of true FP+ capacity in 3 of the 4 parks.

 

[janoimagine]

You can park hop using same day reservations.

I wasn't able to as of last weekend on the My Disney Experience App or the website, when I asked a MM+ Cast Member about I was told the code hand't been integrated into the system yet? You were able to park hop?

My issue is and will continue to be FP+ on attractions where it doesn't belong. This is the result of the insistence of 3 advanced bookings per day. Lowering the advanced bookings will solve many of the issues with the lack of true FP+ capacity in 3 of the 4 parks.

I could not agree more completely ... in fact I am shocked they haven't put it on the Swiss Family Tree House considering it is on everything else.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I wasn't able to as of last weekend on the My Disney Experience App or the website, when I asked a MM+ Cast Member about I was told the code hand't been integrated into the system yet? You were able to park hop?



I could not agree more completely ... in fact I am shocked they haven't put it on the Swiss Family Tree House considering it is on everything else.

I have not tried it, admittedly I have assumed that it just works once the first 3 are used.

 

[cw1982]

I wasn't able to as of last weekend on the My Disney Experience App or the website, when I asked a MM+ Cast Member about I was told the code hand't been integrated into the system yet? You were able to park hop?

From everything I've read, you can PH and use fastpasses now but only through the FP+ kiosks. Rumor is that the app access for this feature is coming, but no one seems to know when.

 

[Kman101]

Yeah, you have to physically enter the second park and use a kiosk. I don't believe it works on the app or the website.

 

[wogwog]

Yeah, makes me quite nervous now...

They will when studies tell them they can cap, eliminate, raise prices, and/or create more blackout periods for what type of pass without a significant hit to the bottom line. This Forum often contains references to the WDW "innocent" data mining through the rubber bands. They already know what kind of pass holder does not spend much after getting in the park and taking up room. They want more once a year or even once in a lifetime guests and less annual pass holders. When WDW had a pattern of busy season and off season pass holders filled in some of the non busy times. Does anyone think that pattern is shattered?

 

[Stevek]

Then you would not be a "loyal" fan of Disney, but, a loyal fan of a location where you can gather and use the facilities that others pay a small fortune to get near. If you say that a loyal fan will leave because of cost then there is no real passion to be at Disney. Anyplace, will do as long as it is something that 1) provides a location to gather and 2) provides some entertainment once you're there. Of course, that would involve a very small financial commitment, because that is what is important to accomplish that goal.

We can agree to disagree then. If you wanted to question loyalty, you might have an argument if you were looking at only a handful of years. I have more than shown my loyalty to Disney with 40+ years and a couple of hundred visits to Disneyland, 13 years of AP payments, 3 trips to WDW, 1 Disney Cruise, multiple Disney movies in theaters and Blu-ray/DVD, tons of clothes, dolls and toys for my girls.

At some point, loyalty wears thin and you feel you can no longer plough money into something that no longer gives you the same value or provides you with the same level of enjoyment you once had. Loyalty does not mean you should be blind and accepting of everything they do...that's called stupidity.

 

[Stevek]

Hopefully this means Disneyland would be a little less crowded next year when I hope to make my first trip out west.

Don't bet on it ; )

 

[Mike S]

Don't bet on it ; )

Oh well, I'm sure I'll still have a great time if I end up going.