CinematicFusion
Well-Known Member
It won't get changed. The one at Disneyland S--ks, and I look forward to seeing what they do with it.
ToT at WDW is staying.
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Spirited Special II: DHS Guardians Tower Not Dead; DL to Trade Nostalgia For Star Wars Pyro
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
It won't get changed. The one at Disneyland S--ks, and I look forward to seeing what they do with it.
ToT at WDW is staying.
RoysCabin
Well-Known Member
Man, what an awful set of options: either take and undo a resort classic in Tower of Terror (in a park that's currently dying from lack of entertainment options), or put it in Future World and essentially announce to the world "The EPCOT concept is officially dead, long live IPcot."
Meanwhile, as others have said, the obvious answer is right in front of them: take Rock n Roller Coaster, which while popular doesn't usually draw quite as much as Tower and has an outdated theme over it (much as I love the classic rock posters in the queue, my dad used to point to some and say "Hey, I was at that one"), and go right ahead and IP it up since the entire Studios park is going in that direction soon.
ALSO meanwhile, take Universe of Energy and put a much simpler concept in it, and probably save a bunch of money in the process. For any of you who read the fantastic Passport to Dreams Old and New blog, Foxy recently did a write up about all the original Future World pavilions and attractions, trying to get at the root of what they were, what made them tick, what made early EPCOT Center work, and what it should aim to be going forward (she didn't do some big brainstorm dream session, just broad parameters). I loved her idea for UoE: go basic. Keep the dinosaur diorama, but get rid of the moving theater, add in an Omnimover, and change it from a 45 minute theater show to a 15 minute ride. Get some companies involved in alternative energy to sponsor, and you've got yourself a nice simple ride that can eat up some crowds efficiently while folks on that side of the park wait for their Test Track fast passes or what have you.
Of course, that doesn't seem the be the direction corporate is going in, which is to homogenize and to just look at wait times as an indicator that they're doing something right. It's sad, though, since one other thing Foxy mentioned in that blog was that if they ever did want to get back to the original EPCOT spirit, a big thing they'd have to do would be to have some respect for the audience's ability to appreciate something different and new. Ok, people want IPs right now, lovely, but Disney's bread and butter for ages was giving audiences a bit of what they want, but a big sampling of things they never even knew could exist. And you know what? As others here are mentioning, if you look at how well science exhibits and various museums around the country are doing these days, turns out your average tourist family is actually quite willing to have an experience that, while certainly not rigorous in an academic sense, offer something that lights up different parts of the mind than usual.
She made one other great point that I wish corporate would realize, which is something most Floridians in the area already know: EPCOT is the greatest "hang out" park there is. You don't need enormous two hour line blockbusters, but you need a decent offering of attractions and little nooks and crannies around the park, from cool little hands-on science exhibits, to art installations that are there for art's sake, to even just some nice benches in some nicely manicured green areas. Doing that would keep people invested and interested in the park and create a welcoming atmosphere, all without having to spend untold millions to install some thematically inconsistent IP E-tickets.
I'm sorry for rambling, but all this talk has, admittedly, kind of gotten to me, even after a few weeks of making my peace with the idea. For a tl;dr version: you can't just serve up the public everything it says it wants on a silver platter, you doom yourself to diminishing returns and a lack of passion from your fanbase. You want them coming back forever? Yes, give them some of what they want, but don't be afraid to say "Hey, betcha didn't know you ever wanted THIS!" too.
Meanwhile, as others have said, the obvious answer is right in front of them: take Rock n Roller Coaster, which while popular doesn't usually draw quite as much as Tower and has an outdated theme over it (much as I love the classic rock posters in the queue, my dad used to point to some and say "Hey, I was at that one"), and go right ahead and IP it up since the entire Studios park is going in that direction soon.
ALSO meanwhile, take Universe of Energy and put a much simpler concept in it, and probably save a bunch of money in the process. For any of you who read the fantastic Passport to Dreams Old and New blog, Foxy recently did a write up about all the original Future World pavilions and attractions, trying to get at the root of what they were, what made them tick, what made early EPCOT Center work, and what it should aim to be going forward (she didn't do some big brainstorm dream session, just broad parameters). I loved her idea for UoE: go basic. Keep the dinosaur diorama, but get rid of the moving theater, add in an Omnimover, and change it from a 45 minute theater show to a 15 minute ride. Get some companies involved in alternative energy to sponsor, and you've got yourself a nice simple ride that can eat up some crowds efficiently while folks on that side of the park wait for their Test Track fast passes or what have you.
Of course, that doesn't seem the be the direction corporate is going in, which is to homogenize and to just look at wait times as an indicator that they're doing something right. It's sad, though, since one other thing Foxy mentioned in that blog was that if they ever did want to get back to the original EPCOT spirit, a big thing they'd have to do would be to have some respect for the audience's ability to appreciate something different and new. Ok, people want IPs right now, lovely, but Disney's bread and butter for ages was giving audiences a bit of what they want, but a big sampling of things they never even knew could exist. And you know what? As others here are mentioning, if you look at how well science exhibits and various museums around the country are doing these days, turns out your average tourist family is actually quite willing to have an experience that, while certainly not rigorous in an academic sense, offer something that lights up different parts of the mind than usual.
She made one other great point that I wish corporate would realize, which is something most Floridians in the area already know: EPCOT is the greatest "hang out" park there is. You don't need enormous two hour line blockbusters, but you need a decent offering of attractions and little nooks and crannies around the park, from cool little hands-on science exhibits, to art installations that are there for art's sake, to even just some nice benches in some nicely manicured green areas. Doing that would keep people invested and interested in the park and create a welcoming atmosphere, all without having to spend untold millions to install some thematically inconsistent IP E-tickets.
I'm sorry for rambling, but all this talk has, admittedly, kind of gotten to me, even after a few weeks of making my peace with the idea. For a tl;dr version: you can't just serve up the public everything it says it wants on a silver platter, you doom yourself to diminishing returns and a lack of passion from your fanbase. You want them coming back forever? Yes, give them some of what they want, but don't be afraid to say "Hey, betcha didn't know you ever wanted THIS!" too.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Thanks for the update
I definitely prefer the lesser of 2 evils with GoTG going to Energy instead of ToT. I am just a fan with no inside info but I said in the other GoTG thread that I didn't think there was any way they could afford to lose ToT with all the construction going on at DHS. Your hourly ride capacity numbers are really eye opening. I never crunched the numbers before, but if the TEA reports are to be believed the hourly ride capacity is way too low already. That's a whole lot of people standing around or waiting in lines. It's really bordering on criminal that they still charge people over $100 for that park.
Virtual Toad
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but here's the thing. Mass media in our country, not so long ago, was used as a tool to promote the health, welfare and yes-- even nurture the intellect of our nation's citizens. I believe that people will ultimately consume whatever media is placed before them.
If WDW stopped cutting corners, stopped making the easy cash grab, stopped lazily reaching out for low-hanging fruit, and put forth an ounce of honest effort truly worthy of its resources, they could bring EPCOT back to its roots in a heartbeat. They could inspire a whole new generation of dreamers and doers and make a ton of $$$ in the process.
It's an effort that would require responsible investment in real talent and imagination. But the rewards are there for the taking. EPCOT has always been special, always been unique.
Believing that all people want is the lowest-common denominator is to sell the capacity and potential of the human spirit woefully short. Putting faith in the intellect, curiosity and passion of the human spirit has the potential to reap untold rewards for the company, our nation, and the future of our planet.
Virtual Toad
Well-Known Member
My 7 and 11 year old sons are in the next room watching episode after episode of Cosmos as we speak.
I'm going to start needing some mood altering enhancements to read any more of your news....
Why oh why would you change one of the best rides in all 4 parks? We need to tattoo this on Chappie's forehead: "if it ain't broken, don't fix it"......and make him write it on the whiteboard 100 times....and repeat it while clicking his heals.....
It's official. Disney has lost all its creativity and originality. Just like Hollywood....which has decided to remake the best western ever.
Why oh why would you change one of the best rides in all 4 parks? We need to tattoo this on Chappie's forehead: "if it ain't broken, don't fix it"......and make him write it on the whiteboard 100 times....and repeat it while clicking his heals.....
It's official. Disney has lost all its creativity and originality. Just like Hollywood....which has decided to remake the best western ever.
I doubt that. The BOD has been very pleased with what Iger has done to stock prices (well, up until a few weeks ago). I expect the new CEO to be more Igerish.
Can someone find a sports team for the man to run, pronto? Just don't make it my Dodgers, Rams or Niners, please. Oh, and make sure there's a spot for the other Bob.
Figments Friend
Well-Known Member
I vote for @WDW1974 as the next CEO, @ParentsOf4 as CFO, @marni1971 as Chief Historian, and yours truly as the company appointed face slapper of anyone who blurts out asinine ideas such as Mission: BREAKOUT. Of course I'll probably have my own underlings as well
Can I be one of the 'underlings'....?
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Reading this brought sad tears to my eyes.....
For some reason I'm finding myself more disgusted with the fact there will be Star Wars fireworks at Disneyland than the, very much inevitable at this point, destruction of Tower at DHS. At this rate, they might as well just bulldoze Sleeping Beauty Castle and build the Death Star. Freaking idiots, that's all they are. IDIOTS!
That castle shall remain untouched if I have to chain myself to it......
Figments Friend
Well-Known Member
Great post, and absolute truth.
I am quoting this in the hopes that others here will re-read these words.
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I realized they'd stopped caring about Walt and the company he built when I saw they'd dropped his first name from the logo for the Studios. That's like dropping the last M from MGM.
FigmentForver96
Well-Known Member
They will just flatten you....they don't care. Nobody will stand in the way of their money. It was said perfectly, they are idiots and I hope I can witness the crumble of the mess they made one day. I know that sounds awful and it is but I want to see everything backfire on them so badly that the shame would force them out of power....of course it will never happen but hey Disney has always been about dreaming
RoysCabin
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't go so far as to say our mass media was ever quite so benevolent, especially given how much of it back in the day, just as now, was steeped in advertising culture, but I do agree with the sentiment that mass media back in the proverbial day at least seemed a bit more open to taking creative chances. I'll make an exception for TV: I don't watch many shows, but I fully recognize that we live in the golden era of fictional TV shows, but Hollywood is stuck in a "sequel/remake/reboot" rut and it's having an effect on a lot of other areas of pop culture, theme parks included.
However, I think that point almost makes @Virtual Toad 's point all the stronger; I adore original EPCOT Center, but there was plenty about it that wasn't quite the grand sweeping epic a lot of us wish we had today, when you consider how much of it was shaped by the sensibilities of corporate sponsors (Exxon and fossil fuels, GM and the focus on the family sedan, etc.) and at times shaped by the fact that Disney had spent way too much money already on it and had to skimp on a few ideas (e.g. the Sea Cabs in Living Seas not being that impressive, numerous World Showcase rides and pavilions getting shelved, The Land not being the bio-dome style masterpiece Baxter imagined, etc.).
However, despite those limitations EPCOT Center was still a rousing success, incredibly unique, and still largely inspirational to a large segment of the Disney fanbase that as kids took joy in discovery and less in things like characters breakfasts (not that we disliked those or anything). What this means is that Disney doesn't need to make something that's akin to a college level course on marine biology to make The Living Seas interesting again; they simply need to go back to the concept of wanting to inspire while wanting people to have fun. It's not that hard to do, not with some of the creative minds they can tap into.
However, I think that point almost makes @Virtual Toad 's point all the stronger; I adore original EPCOT Center, but there was plenty about it that wasn't quite the grand sweeping epic a lot of us wish we had today, when you consider how much of it was shaped by the sensibilities of corporate sponsors (Exxon and fossil fuels, GM and the focus on the family sedan, etc.) and at times shaped by the fact that Disney had spent way too much money already on it and had to skimp on a few ideas (e.g. the Sea Cabs in Living Seas not being that impressive, numerous World Showcase rides and pavilions getting shelved, The Land not being the bio-dome style masterpiece Baxter imagined, etc.).
However, despite those limitations EPCOT Center was still a rousing success, incredibly unique, and still largely inspirational to a large segment of the Disney fanbase that as kids took joy in discovery and less in things like characters breakfasts (not that we disliked those or anything). What this means is that Disney doesn't need to make something that's akin to a college level course on marine biology to make The Living Seas interesting again; they simply need to go back to the concept of wanting to inspire while wanting people to have fun. It's not that hard to do, not with some of the creative minds they can tap into.
brb1006
Well-Known Member
Tony Baxter was the last former Disney CM that actually cared about the parks and attractions.
Thanks phoenicians
Well-Known Member
Well hopefully by this time next year more precisely D23, we will know wether our TOT is safe or not. I'd hope any announcement wether it be GOTG in Epcot or DHS (or neither!) will be announced then. Hopefully they're still leaning towards Epcot if those are the only two choices.
brb1006
Well-Known Member
Yes he really deserves it.Can I be one of the 'underlings'....?
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VJ
Well-Known Member
And he was shuffled out because he wanted what we wanted. And Disney doesn't want what we want. They want what they want.