Spirited Special II: DHS Guardians Tower Not Dead; DL to Trade Nostalgia For Star Wars Pyro

[SMLR]

Wait I'm confused. DHS Tower isn't safe anymore?

With Chapek and Iger, nothing is ever safe these days lol

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Tony Baxter was the last former Disney CM that actually cared about the parks and attractions.

And yet, it is Tony who provided the theoretical framework for adding in characters everywhere, and who argued that classic Disney merely lacked enough IP to fill the parks. It is Tony who put Star Wars in Tomorrowland and Indy in Adventureland. Acquiered IP thrill rides taking over Walt's areas! The very precedents that convince Disney that acquired IP works, and that after a few years even the rabid fanbase will embrace them.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I wouldn't go so far as to say our mass media was ever quite so benevolent, especially given how much of it back in the day, just as now, was steeped in advertising culture, but I do agree with the sentiment that mass media back in the proverbial day at least seemed a bit more open to taking creative chances. I'll make an exception for TV: I don't watch many shows, but I fully recognize that we live in the golden era of fictional TV shows, but Hollywood is stuck in a "sequel/remake/reboot" rut and it's having an effect on a lot of other areas of pop culture, theme parks included.

However, I think that point almost makes @Virtual Toad 's point all the stronger; I adore original EPCOT Center, but there was plenty about it that wasn't quite the grand sweeping epic a lot of us wish we had today, when you consider how much of it was shaped by the sensibilities of corporate sponsors (Exxon and fossil fuels, GM and the focus on the family sedan, etc.) and at times shaped by the fact that Disney had spent way too much money already on it and had to skimp on a few ideas (e.g. the Sea Cabs in Living Seas not being that impressive, numerous World Showcase rides and pavilions getting shelved, The Land not being the bio-dome style masterpiece Baxter imagined, etc.).

However, despite those limitations EPCOT Center was still a rousing success, incredibly unique, and still largely inspirational to a large segment of the Disney fanbase that as kids took joy in discovery and less in things like characters breakfasts (not that we disliked those or anything). What this means is that Disney doesn't need to make something that's akin to a college level course on marine biology to make The Living Seas interesting again; they simply need to go back to the concept of wanting to inspire while wanting people to have fun. It's not that hard to do, not with some of the creative minds they can tap into.

Love this, nuance and realism.

Also, yes back in the day mass media was despised by many as an instrument of capitalism and the status quo, that kept the masses ignorant.

 

[WildcatDen]

The 1974 guy is the worst

Cue Tim Hawkins. . .

 

[Mike S]

Can I be one of the 'underlings'....?



-

Not mine. Tony would be rehired and you'd study under him eventually setting you up to head WDI

They will just flatten you....they don't care. Nobody will stand in the way of their money. It was said perfectly, they are idiots and I hope I can witness the crumble of the mess they made one day. I know that sounds awful and it is but I want to see everything backfire on them so badly that the shame would force them out of power....of course it will never happen but hey Disney has always been about dreaming

Tower of Terror has mostly backfired I would say.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

First, and I mean this with no irony - it's sad that 75%* of the people on a random Internet message board, with no experience running a multi-billion dollar company, are more qualified to lead a multi-billion dollar company than the person and next in command currently running that company.

*Not statistically proven

Second, where are all the suits that love Disney? The execs that love the parks? Where's Lasseter? I can't believe that there isn't anyone saying "enough is enough"!

@ParentsOf4 needs to be, at the very, VERY least, consulted on a weekly basis by the next CEO.

But if we're going to vote "regular" folks into office, I'd vote him in without a second thought.

Nope I just recently joined the group. It's not really doom and gloom it's more the realistic view that the Disney of old, the great, innovative, spectacular, Disney is dead. They died and it's probably not coming back. The theme parks of just cash machines now and they have shown no interest in being innovative or original. The best example is the Star Wars fireworks coming to Disneyland. One moment they talk about respecting the heritage of Walt Disney and his creation and how nostalgia is inportant and they make bank off of it. Then they turn around and claim nostalgia is no good and we need to look ahead. They focus on what works right then and there and to hell with theme or originality

Welcome to the dark side.... we have cookies cupcakes.


I wish I had something to say about the retheming but sadly, I'm feeling a bit defeated by the whole package deal of "lets gut existing stuff and put in IP stuff" instead of "let's build something new and blow peoples minds".

I dunno.

I can, however, sum up my feelings on DIS as a company right now, with one photo:

 

[LAKid53]

They will just flatten you....they don't care. Nobody will stand in the way of their money. It was said perfectly, they are idiots and I hope I can witness the crumble of the mess they made one day. I know that sounds awful and it is but I want to see everything backfire on them so badly that the shame would force them out of power....of course it will never happen but hey Disney has always been about dreaming

It speaks volumes about the way American businesses are run these days if something as iconic and beloved as TWDC and its products must be destroyed to be saved from bad management. Improving stock values isn't the be all and end all it has become. We can thank the likes of Jack Welch for that.....

 

[AndyMagic]

Wait.... so are they actually considering adding the overlay to ToT East AND adding the new attraction to Epcot? How could that possibly be justified as a reasonable use of resources? Even if the ridiculous FPPWMotG (Factory Power Plant Warehouse Museum of the Galaxy) ended up being a success at DCA, I don't understand why they would bother spending money screwing with Sunset Blvd. after shelling out millions adding a duplicate IP at Epcot.

 

[csmat99]

Well hopefully by this time next year more precisely D23, we will know wether our TOT is safe or not. I'd hope any announcement wether it be GOTG in Epcot or DHS (or neither!) will be announced then. Hopefully they're still leaning towards Epcot if those are the only two choices.

My opinion is we won't know it's safe for at least 2 years. Avatar comes next year and next D23 will probably be more announcements about SW. I know it won't happen but our best bet of saving it is to have people continue to slam the makeover in DCA and not ride it when it switches but we all know pixie dusters will be making a line around the corner like they did with frozen over the grave of maelstrom

 

[csmat99]

Wait.... so are they actually considering adding the overlay to ToT East AND adding the new attraction to Epcot? How could that possibly be justified as a reasonable use of resources? Even if the ridiculous FPPWMotG (Factory Power Plant Warehouse Museum of the Galaxy) ended up being a success at DCA, I don't understand why they would bother spending money screwing with Sunset Blvd. after shelling out millions adding a duplicate IP at Epcot.

No that isn't what they are considering. Spirit said if GotG is green lite for Epcot which it has not then our tower should be safe. But if GotG isn't going to Epcot then very good chance our tower would be changed once more stuff opens up at DHS so they will be able to take tower down for the change over.

 

[Cesar R M]

I think what WDW1974 said is that if GotG DOES go into EPCOT, then the Tower is safe for many years to come. So we can all feel happy, now...I guess?

This situation reminds of the old joke about your mother-in-law driving over a cliff in a your brand-new Cadillac...

agree, its like asking which one of the turds is more polished.. both are turds.

 

[Jones14]

What's nuts is that if Big Hero 6 ends up being the DHS E-Ticket, then they have a ridiculously easy solution to their problem that they'll have completely missed.

Throw the family E-Ticket (Big Hero 6) in Epcot to take over Ellen and put Guardians (the proposed Epcot version, not Tower) wherever Big Hero 6 was slated to go. Sure, they'd both open around 2020 at the earliest, but that really shouldn't make a difference to Chapek, since it's been made clear that he won't be getting Tower down for an overlay any earlier than the day after Toy Story opens.

At that point, he'd be opening Guardians in 2019 if the overlay took the same amount of time as California's; is one more year really that bad of a deal when you can save face and have two brand new attractions in two different parks to market immediately after opening Star Wars Land?

It's remarkable how a company known for their sluggishness is rushing so much that they can't see the simple solutions. Granted, they might, but Chapek sure doesn't.

 

[RoysCabin]

Or, another thought: if a GotG attraction in Florida isn't likely to be announced any time in the immediate offing, or if the closest projected opening date for it is something like 2019-2020, why not stop and realize "huh, we can't be sure how popular that'll be at that point"? For the record, I enjoyed the Guardians movie, and I'm sure I'll see the sequel in theaters, and I'm sure it'll do great at the box office, but there's a distinct difference between "franchise that performs well at the box office" and "franchise people are willing to travel thousands of miles and pay thousands of dollars to experience", especially franchises that haven't yet proven to have a lot of cultural staying power. Maybe Guardians will have that, but maybe it won't, and if you spend untold millions on an attraction for it you could be setting yourself up for disappointment later.

I realize that ToT is themed for the Twilight Zone, but that's at least a franchise with proven cultural staying power and appeal across generations (see: it still gets the New Year's marathon every year, and everything from popular sitcoms down to kid's cartoons parody it), and the ride itself has an original story, even if it's a bit heavy handed thanks to the Eisner era "everything has to have tons of lore!" edicts. An alternative ride in the Energy pavilion (didn't realize that could work as a pun) wouldn't have to worry about that, either, as it wouldn't be tied down to an IP that could gain or lose popularity over time.

Said it before, I'll say it again: I'm floored that a company seemingly so committed to making cuts and budget savings wherever possible in the parks is seemingly so gung ho to spend untold dollars on a concept that isn't likely to significantly boost EPCOT's attendance (never mind the whole "it simply doesn't fit there or optimize the usage of the IP nor the pavilion itself" part), or if it's put in the Studios wouldn't likely have any impact on the lines ToT gets and may in fact turn off a fair number of fans of the ride.

 

[aladdin2007]

What's nuts is that if Big Hero 6 ends up being the DHS E-Ticket, then they have a ridiculously easy solution to their problem that they'll have completely missed.

Throw the family E-Ticket (Big Hero 6) in Epcot to take over Ellen and put Guardians (the proposed Epcot version, not Tower) wherever Big Hero 6 was slated to go. Sure, they'd both open around 2020 at the earliest, but that really shouldn't make a difference to Chapek, since it's been made clear that he won't be getting Tower down for an overlay any earlier than the day after Toy Story opens.

At that point, he'd be opening Guardians in 2019 if the overlay took the same amount of time as California's; is one more year really that bad of a deal when you can save face and have two brand new attractions in two different parks to market immediately after opening Star Wars Land?

It's remarkable how a company known for their sluggishness is rushing so much that they can't see the simple solutions. Granted, they might, but Chapek sure doesn't.

The only one good thing about Chapek is he wants things done faster than what they had been, and management cleaned up a bit I guess. The bad is he wants to take the Disney out of Disney. I dont even think he knows what Disney is or means. I fear he is going to turn these parks into a meaningless hodge podge mess, throwing whatever he can everywhere to make a buck off IP. Disneyland can't even have nostalgic fireworks anymore, they have to have upcoming star wars fireworks only. I think they are going overboard with the star wars stuff, but thats just my opinion and different topic lol.

 

[Mike S]

Or, another thought: if a GotG attraction in Florida isn't likely to be announced any time in the immediate offing, or if the closest projected opening date for it is something like 2019-2020, why not stop and realize "huh, we can't be sure how popular that'll be at that point"? For the record, I enjoyed the Guardians movie, and I'm sure I'll see the sequel in theaters, and I'm sure it'll do great at the box office, but there's a distinct difference between "franchise that performs well at the box office" and "franchise people are willing to travel thousands of miles and pay thousands of dollars to experience", especially franchises that haven't yet proven to have a lot of cultural staying power. Maybe Guardians will have that, but maybe it won't, and if you spend untold millions on an attraction for it you could be setting yourself up for disappointment later.

I realize that ToT is themed for the Twilight Zone, but that's at least a franchise with proven cultural staying power and appeal across generations (see: it still gets the New Year's marathon every year, and everything from popular sitcoms down to kid's cartoons parody it), and the ride itself has an original story, even if it's a bit heavy handed thanks to the Eisner era "everything has to have tons of lore!" edicts. An alternative ride in the Energy pavilion (didn't realize that could work as a pun) wouldn't have to worry about that, either, as it wouldn't be tied down to an IP that could gain or lose popularity over time.

Said it before, I'll say it again: I'm floored that a company seeming so committing to making cuts and budget savings wherever possible in the parks is seemingly so gung ho to spend untold dollars on a concept that isn't likely to significantly boost EPCOT's attendance (never mind the whole "it simply doesn't fit there or optimize the usage of the IP nor the pavilion itself" part), or if it's put in the Studios wouldn't likely have any impact on the lines ToT gets and may in fact turn off a fair number of fans of the ride.

The lore is part of what makes ToT as amazing as it is.

 

[Cesar R M]

Here's a crazy idea - take the guardian ride planned for Epcot and put it in DHS. As a new ride. Building a warehouse for the ride should not be that expensive.

anything by Disney is expensive.

 

[Brad Bishop]

The Bobs are doing a fine job saving me money. I have already greatly reduced my visits, but if they touch ToT I won't be spending another dime at WDW. That goes for my wife and our future 2.5 children as well. I already can't justify paying admission to DHS (haven't been there since 2011), I certainly won't be spending my hard earned dollars on a company that makes such bone headed decisions. A multi Billion Dollar Media giant that can certainly afford to build a purpose built building in a new location, instead they will lazily destroy one of the most complete experiences WDI has ever built.

I have some time off around Labor Day. I have an annual pass that expires just after and a few Disney Gift Cards. I could go there for cheap. I'll pass. It's just not the same any longer.

 

[RoysCabin]

The lore is part of what makes ToT as amazing as it is.

ToT is executed well, don't get me wrong; it's just a personal bias thing, I tend to prefer the rides where it's more experience based and less story based (e.g. there's a story to the original Pirates of the Caribbean ride, but it takes a backseat to the experience of piracy; Haunted Mansion is less about "finding a way out" than it is about simply experiencing the sights and sounds of a haunted property, etc.). Eisner-era stuff was often a bit too hamfisted with everything needing stories...heck, even Pleasure Island had to have the whole backstory of Meriweather Pleasure and all that when it was built.

 

[Cesar R M]

While it is at least 85% negative, there are some very vocal pro-GotG TOT overlay people out there. Shills or brain dead BRANDers? No idea

probably marvel bandwagoner.. the same ones who hated marvel until disney bought them and suddenly became "best thing ever!"

 

[TP2000]

They're ripping the heart out of the company. Star Wars fireworks at Disneyland indefinitely? That is practically sacrilege. The board has got to realize this is the wrong direction and soon.

Fireworks shows at Disneyland last an average of two or three years before they are replaced with something new. Disneyland is a very different type of operation than WDW.