Spirited Special II: DHS Guardians Tower Not Dead; DL to Trade Nostalgia For Star Wars Pyro

[FigmentJedi]

ToT is executed well, don't get me wrong; it's just a personal bias thing, I tend to prefer the rides where it's more experience based and less story based (e.g. there's a story to the original Pirates of the Caribbean ride, but it takes a backseat to the experience of piracy; Haunted Mansion is less about "finding a way out" than it is about simply experiencing the sights and sounds of a haunted property, etc.). Eisner-era stuff was often a bit too hamfisted with everything needing stories...heck, even Pleasure Island had to have the whole backstory of Meriweather Pleasure and all that when it was built.

I really enjoy having all this dense lore and making things feel lived in, but Imagineers need to get better with names and consistency. It's fantastic that SEA has been spreading everywhere but all the names are either really punny or super lazy. Like I'm just referring to Captain Oceaneer (who is now part of Typhoon Lagoon and something on the Cruise Line) on the first name basis of Mary because they just weren't even trying there.

 

[Kamikaze]

When will we be receiving a new CEO? This is getting ridiculous.

That worked out so well when Eisner was forced out ...

 

[TP2000]

But George took a stand... does that mean he will be purged soon???

He apparently took a stand with cold hard facts. Facts that show what everyone already knows; DHS is a shell of a theme park with only five rides and not nearly enough capacity, while DCA has 22 rides with nearly double the capacity of DHS. And DHS is older at 27 years old, while DCA is only 15 years old. That isn't George's fault, but it's the inconvenient truth.

Spirit summed it all up right here...

As a friend in a position to know picks up our tale, "George K. successfully pleaded to Chapek that DHS and WDW overall couldn't spare to lose a headliner E Ticket long-term before Avatar and Toy Story Land opens. As a point of reference, DCA has 22 different rides that have a combined capacity of 18,100 riders per hour, plus five theater attractions and a few walk-thru exhibits that have a combined capacity of 4,100 visitors per hour, and the four daily Frozen shows in the 2,000 seat Hyperion Theater that packs in 8,000 per day. DCA also has a daily parade and one or two World of Colors per night. DHS has only 5 rides, and even after the expansion of Midway Mania with a third track, those five rides now have a combined capacity of 8,400 riders per hour, plus a half dozen theater attractions and some walk-thrus that can get 3,600 visitors per hour when the staggered show times are smoothed out over a 12 hour operating day, no parade, and Fantasmic!.

That gives DCA a combined ride/theater capacity of 22,900 people per hour, plus a daily parade and World of Color. While DHS has a combined ride/theater capacity of 12,000 people per hour, no parade, but Fantasmic!.

Those sad DHS numbers were used by George K. to help convince Chapek that they can't spare closing Tower for an extended refurb until at least after Avatar and Toy Story Land both open. Chapek relented, but he loves the numbers and results coming out of the Anaheim operation and he can't understand why WDW can't be more like DLR. Chapek is also salivating at the future growth potential for Anaheim after he helped greenlight additional big budget DLR park expansion beyond Star Wars recently with the Board of Directors."

So, that is why Tower is "saved" at WDW. For however long remains to be seen.

Fascinating stuff, but again I'm struck by the fact that none of this is news to anyone who has been to DHS and/or DCA in the last few years. We may not have had all the statistical data available like that, but it's obvious just by wandering around for a couple hours.

That isn't a solution to keep SW in WDW and Marvel in Cali. People have to understand that Anaheim doesn't want people flying from all over staying there. WDW was built for that.

Huh? You think Anaheim doesn't want tourists to stay there? The Anaheim Resort District now has 22,000 hotel rooms within the compact Resort District area, and 2,000 of those rooms are new corporate hotels that came online in the last 18 months. There are an additional dozen hotels now under construction or just approved by the Anaheim City Council in June, with almost 2,000 of those hotel rooms found in new 4 Star hotels (JW Marriott, Disney's new luxury hotel, Four Seasons, etc.).

Anaheim hotel occupancy and spending are all up year after year since 2010. It's a wildly successful tourism economy. Don't believe me? Read the Los Angeles Times recent piece on Anaheim's booming tourism... http://www.latimes.com/socal/weeken...4-anaheim-tourism-profile-20160424-story.html

Anaheim has the largest convention center on the West Coast and one of the most iconic family vacation destinations on the planet (a fun little place called Disneyland Resort), with a hotel base of 22,000 rooms and growing. And you think Anaheim "doesn't want people flying from all over" to come visit? How did you come to that conclusion?

Someone should tell the City Council to take down this website they made.
http://visitanaheim.org/

 

[Captain Neo]

That worked out so well when Eisner was forced out ...

It worked out fantastic are you kidding me?

 

[ford91exploder]

I have some time off around Labor Day. I have an annual pass that expires just after and a few Disney Gift Cards. I could go there for cheap. I'll pass. It's just not the same any longer.

People like you and I are the real danger to Disney, In that even if we can go for 'FREE' we'll take a pass because the value in visiting is no longer there, What happens to companies whose most dedicated fans become disillusioned, Hint it's not good.

 

[csmat99]

He apparently took a stand with cold hard facts. Facts that show what everyone already knows; DHS is a shell of a theme park with only five rides and not nearly enough capacity, while DCA has 22 rides with nearly double the capacity of DHS. And DHS is older at 27 years old, while DCA is only 15 years old. That isn't George's fault, but it's the inconvenient truth.

Spirit summed it all up right here...


Fascinating stuff, but again I'm struck by the fact that none of this is news to anyone who has been to DHS and/or DCA in the last few years. We may not have had all the statistical data available like that, but it's obvious just by wandering around for a couple hours.



Huh? You think Anaheim doesn't want tourists to stay there? The Anaheim Resort District now has 22,000 hotel rooms within the compact Resort District area, and 2,000 of those rooms are new corporate hotels that came online in the last 18 months. There are an additional dozen hotels now under construction or just approved by the Anaheim City Council in June, with almost 2,000 of those hotel rooms found in new 4 Star hotels (JW Marriott, Disney's new luxury hotel, Four Seasons, etc.).

Anaheim hotel occupancy and spending are all up year after year since 2010. It's a wildly successful tourism economy. Don't believe me? Read the Lost Angeles Times recent piece on Anaheim's booming tourism... http://www.latimes.com/socal/weeken...4-anaheim-tourism-profile-20160424-story.html

Anaheim has the largest convention center on the West Coast and one of the most iconic family vacation destinations on the planet (a fun little place called Disneyland Resort), with a hotel base of 22,000 rooms and growing. And you think Anaheim "doesn't want people flying from all over" to come visit? How did you come to that conclusion?

Someone should tell the City Council to take down this website they made.
http://visitanaheim.org/

My point was about the fact that since Disneyland has opened more people visit there from SoCal versus people from out of state compared to WDW. Don't get me wrong if Disney can get more people to stay at their hotels they will. But they have very limited offerings compared to WDW obviously. And even after adding the hotels they just announced it won't equal what WDW has to offer. And I'm sorry a lot of those rooms aren't of the same quality that is offered around WDW. End of the day I only need one day to visit Disneyland/DCA. And my original post was with regards to another poster saying one coast should get Marvel and the other SW. Disneyland has more of a need to update and add on a yearly basis because of the fact so many of their base are local. WDW has proven that they can not do one thing in the parks for years and attendance will go up. DCA was a mess and no one went. It wasn't until they invested and fixed things that they saw the attendance increase. DHS keeps removing things and the attendance has gone up or stayed flat.

 

[ford91exploder]

It speaks volumes about the way American businesses are run these days if something as iconic and beloved as TWDC and its products must be destroyed to be saved from bad management. Improving stock values isn't the be all and end all it has become. We can thank the likes of Jack Welch for that.....

Ah yes Neutron Jack the vandal king, And GE is reduced to peddling it's logo to any Chinese company who can pay the license fee, Yeah Jack did SUCH a great job in reducing an industrial giant to an IP holding firm.

 

[TP2000]

My point was about the fact that since Disneyland has opened more people visit there from SoCal versus people from out of state compared to WDW. Don't get me wrong if Disney can get more people to stay at their hotels they will. But they have very limited offerings compared to WDW obviously. And even after adding the hotels they just announced it won't equal what WDW has to offer. And I'm sorry a lot of those rooms aren't of the same quality that is offered around WDW. End of the day I only need one day to visit Disneyland/DCA. And my original post was with regards to another poster saying one coast should get Marvel and the other SW. Disneyland has more of a need to update and add on a yearly basis because of the fact so many of their base are local. WDW has proven that they can not do one thing in the parks for years and attendance will go up. DCA was a mess and no one went. It wasn't until they invested and fixed things that they saw the attendance increase. DHS keeps removing things and the attendance has gone up or stayed flat.

Okay.

I was just responding to your statement "People have to understand that Anaheim doesn't want people flying from all over staying there." -csmat99

For a city that doesn't want people flying from all over to stay there, they sure have a funny way of showing that by having 22,000+ hotel rooms, the largest convention center on the West Coast, and the most famously succesful theme park on the planet.

They should fire whoever in Anaheim City Hall dreamed up that plan to get people to stay away.

 

[RSoxNo1]

And yet, it is Tony who provided the theoretical framework for adding in characters everywhere, and who argued that classic Disney merely lacked enough IP to fill the parks. It is Tony who put Star Wars in Tomorrowland and Indy in Adventureland. Acquiered IP thrill rides taking over Walt's areas! The very precedents that convince Disney that acquired IP works, and that after a few years even the rabid fanbase will embrace them.

Tony pitched new ideas for these IPs, not shoe horns. I'm still trying to get confirmation, but I think it's possible that he pitched Indy, Star Tours and Splash on the same day. I know they opened fairly far apart but I've heard the story told where it was a single day of showing projects to Eisner.

 

[Mike S]

ToT is executed well, don't get me wrong; it's just a personal bias thing, I tend to prefer the rides where it's more experience based and less story based (e.g. there's a story to the original Pirates of the Caribbean ride, but it takes a backseat to the experience of piracy; Haunted Mansion is less about "finding a way out" than it is about simply experiencing the sights and sounds of a haunted property, etc.). Eisner-era stuff was often a bit too hamfisted with everything needing stories...heck, even Pleasure Island had to have the whole backstory of Meriweather Pleasure and all that when it was built.

"The Myth of Story" http://imagineerebirth.blogspot.com/2006/11/myth-of-story.html?m=1

My point was about the fact that since Disneyland has opened more people visit there from SoCal versus people from out of state compared to WDW. Don't get me wrong if Disney can get more people to stay at their hotels they will. But they have very limited offerings compared to WDW obviously. And even after adding the hotels they just announced it won't equal what WDW has to offer. And I'm sorry a lot of those rooms aren't of the same quality that is offered around WDW. End of the day I only need one day to visit Disneyland/DCA. And my original post was with regards to another poster saying one coast should get Marvel and the other SW. Disneyland has more of a need to update and add on a yearly basis because of the fact so many of their base are local. WDW has proven that they can not do one thing in the parks for years and attendance will go up. DCA was a mess and no one went. It wasn't until they invested and fixed things that they saw the attendance increase. DHS keeps removing things and the attendance has gone up or stayed flat.

One day for Disneyland/DCA? I spent two, one in each park, and still didn't see it all. Going again next summer for D23 and am spending 3 or 4 days in the parks.

 

[Cesar R M]

Alex Trebeck's mustache is out dated.

Ellen's Energy Adventure is very well done for what it was, but a 45 minute ride/show combo simply isn't packing in the crowds any more. I want to a science based attraction and I'd love to see it hosted by Neil Degrasse Tyson (bigger name) and/or Michio Kaku.

Can you imagine a real "COSMOS" type dark ride.. where DeGrasse did the serious parts and the guardians did the fun parts?
He debunked space myths and other space stuff.. and ends with "We have to take care of our world, its the only one we know yet.."
then cuts to Rocket and his "why you want to save it so darn much?" and he answers "Because you, like me.. are one of the idiots that live in it!"

 

[FigmentJedi]

Can you imagine a real "COSMOS" type dark ride.. where DeGrasse did the serious parts and the guardians did the fun parts?
He debunked space myths and other space stuff.. and ends with "We have to take care of our world, its the only one we know yet.."
then cuts to Rocket and his "why you want to save it so darn much?" and he answers "Because you, like me.. are one of the idiots that live in it!"

So what, would Star Lord off-handedly mention vaguely remembering the Carl Sagan version?

 

[Chef Mickey]

Here's a crazy idea - take the guardian ride planned for Epcot and put it in DHS. As a new ride. Building a warehouse for the ride should not be that expensive.

Amen. This team can't seem to get their heads around NEW attractions that aren't full on new lands. Why can't we can get ONE new ride somewhere without it being "Avatar Land," "Star Wars Land," Or Pixar Land?"

Give us a NEW ride and stop taking away favorites. It's not like they can ever have TOO many rides at the most visisted theme park in the world. Disneyland already seems to have more rides, particularly dark rides. Why not give us 7DMT and let us keep Snow White? Was it that expensive to run? How about Mr. Toad? Maelstrom?

And now ToT and Ellen's Energy Adverenture have to be in jeopardy (No pun intended). Just revamp EEE with an energy theme. It doesn't have to be tied in to some movie or character theme to be appealing. People loved Horizons, still love Spaceship Earth, and still love Soarin'. EPCOT should have minimal character/movie themes at that's never been its purpose. In general, and particularly at EPCOT, attractions don't need to be ONLY about the movie or character they represent. They can be a subtle theme, perhaps like Tower of Terror and the Twilight Zone tie.

Don't ruin classics and give us more rides.

Alas, they are cheap and short-sighted and I truly despise Iger as a CEO. Awful for the parks.

 

[Mike S]

Amen. This team can't seem to get their heads around NEW attractions that aren't full on new lands. We can get ONE new ride somewhere without it being "Avatar Land," "Star Wars Land," Or Pixar Land."

Give us a NEW ride and stop taking away favorites. It's not like they can ever have TOO many rides at the most visisted theme park in the world. Disneyland already seems to have more rides, particularly dark rides. Why not give us 7DMT and let us keep Snow White? Was it that expensive to run? How about Mr. Toad? Maelstrom?

And now ToT and Ellen's Energy Adverenture have to be in jeopardy (No pun intended). Just revamp EEE with an energy theme. It doesn't have to be tied in to some movie or character theme to be appealing. People loved Hoizons, still love Spaceship Earth, and still love Soarin'. Rides don't need to be ONLY about the movie or character they represent. They can be a subtle theme, perhaps like Tower of Terror.

Don't ruin classics and give us more rides.

Alas, they are cheap and short-sighted and I truly despise Iger as a CEO. Awful for the parks.

Disneyland has the most rides within its gates out of any single Disney park in the world.

 

[RobidaFlats]

"The Myth of Story" http://imagineerebirth.blogspot.com/2006/11/myth-of-story.html?m=1

This intrigues me greatly and I think you should start a thread specifically about this so I will have somewhere to put my thoughts and read others' after I finish reading and digesting it

 

[TP2000]

Disneyland has the most rides within its gates out of any single Disney park in the world.

And they are currently building two new E Tickets for Disneyland on formerly unused "backstage" acreage.

It's unlikely that any other Disney theme park will ever catch up at this point, unless Disneyland permanently closes at least a dozen of its current rides for some reason.

 

[Kamikaze]

It worked out fantastic are you kidding me?

For stock prices? Absolutely.
For DLR? Absolutely. (Eventually).
For WDW? Not at all.

 

[Andrew C]

For stock prices? Absolutely.
For DLR? Absolutely. (Eventually).
For WDW? Not at all.

What about the 1000 other divisions of the company? Lol.

 

[Kamikaze]

What about the 1000 other divisions of the company? Lol.

You really want to do this? This thread has nothing to do with that. Iger's legacy is acquisitions, so you can't judge that against what came before. For the parts of the company that were TWDC property before Iger, he is a net negative. Is that because stock price and profit influences everything? Probably mostly, yes. But Eisner never took that route.

 

[Andrew C]

You really want to do this? This thread has nothing to do with that. Iger's legacy is acquisitions, so you can't judge that against what came before. For the parts of the company that were TWDC property before Iger, he is a net negative. Is that because stock price and profit influences everything? Probably mostly, yes. But Eisner never took that route.

Not saying Iger is a great CEO. Just saying we forget how crappy Eisner was towards he end of his term. And that there is more to Disney than just parks.