Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

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JimboJones123

Well-Known Member
I like the story of Dumbo being cloned, but something went terribly wrong in the second and ongoing batches of Dumbo cloning that technology had to wait to catch up on in the early 21st century.

Is it just coincidence that this story line, which is very similar to the Super Soldier Serum storyline from Marvel cae into play right around the same time that Disney bought Marvel? I think not. Cap = Dumbo.
 
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ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Our upcoming trip for September 23 was booked on July 12 @ 6:00 p.m., after finding out at 5:00 p.m. that my return to work had been delayed by 10 weeks.
Within 2 hours, with the help of Josh at another site, I had my days mapped out, 13 ADR's booked (including CRT) and my calendar completed and printed out.
If you know what you're doing and where to find the appropriate tools, it's not that hard. If I were offered the option of testing FP+ during our trip, I would accept, as I already pretty much know where I'm going to be at what time each day.
FP+ will most certainly appeal to a certain category of existing WDW guest.

However, will FP+ appeal to new guests? Will there be an appreciable number who say, "I wasn't planning on going to Disney World but now that I've heard about this FastPass+ thing, I'm changing my plans and heading to Disney!"

I suggest that the answer to this is "no"; FP+ will not make an appreciable difference in attracting new guests.

Now compare that to a similar question about WWOHP: "I wasn't planning on going to Universal but now that I've heard about this Harry Potter land thing, I'm changing my plans and heading to Universal!"

Most clearly, the answer was "yes". (As a side note, I believe the same answer will apply to a new Star Wars Land at DHS; it will help WDW's business, assuming it's done decently. IMHO, Star Wars Land is desperately needed at DHS.)

The NextGen initiative was launched at a time when corporate Disney viewed theme parks as a mature business. There was little they could do to increase overall Orlando tourism so instead focus on capturing more of WDW's guests onsite, similar to what the successful (and much less expensive) Disney Magical Express initiative did.

Bob Iger was with Disney when DAK opened in 1998 and would have seen that an entirely new and expensive theme park did not obtain the desired results. He would have observed similar disappointing results after the opening of DCA in 2001. With essentially no theme park experience, I can imagine how these events would have influenced his view of the industry and fed into the narrative that theme parks in mature markets offered limited growth potential.

So, NextGen was supposed to keep more guests (and their dollars) onsite (along with reduce opex), not drive increased attendance.

That changed with the opening of WWOHP in 2010 and Cars Land in 2012. Suddenly it became apparent that theme parks could experience significant attendance increases with the right offering, namely a highly popular IP encapsulated within an entire land. For NextGen, it was too late. Hundreds of millions had already been sunk into that project.

Now preliminary test results suggest that FP+ will have limited appeal. It will be popular among some guests but won't turn all guests into extreme planners. It won't capture guests onsite the way the much less expensive DME did. The fear within the corporate halls at Disney today is that rather than bother with the relatively steep learning curve associated with MM+, guests will simply opt for new and exciting attractions at Universal, hence the relatively recent scramble to try to do something with DHS.

Earlier it was suggested that a younger generation will embrace MM+ technology. This no doubt is true. Alternatively, I suggest that they are more likely to embrace new and exciting attractions at Universal rather than using their iPhones to book attractions that are 40 years old. My teenagers have iPhones but all would rather ride Forbidden Journey than use their iPhones to book Space Mountain 60 days out.:D

Delays in the deployment of FastPass+ will mean that it will go head-to-head with Universal's Diagon Alley. I know what my money's on to win that battle.:D
 
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Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
:DIsn't being almost injured about the same as being almost pregnant?:angelic: You either are injured or your not. There is no middle because one doesn't know what the worst case scenario might be until it actually happens. If they bump and no one is being injured, why is that a problem? Could I say that the bumper cars at the carnival left me almost injured at least 100 times?

I had to comment on this post.

First of all, you're supposed to bump into others on BUMPER cars. Secondly, it doesn't matter if the no one was hurt when the PM cars bumped, it's a safety issue and someone could have been hurt. I can bet the CM(s) got a safety for that. If a car bumps into your car, are you going to smile and wave at the driver who did it, or are you going to be genuinely concerned?

EDIT: Are you seriously comparing getting pregnant to a car bump accident?
 
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JimboJones123

Well-Known Member
So, when can I use my AP to start booking Space Mt, Splash Mt and Thunder Mt reservations on every single Friday night, Toy Story Mania, R&R,and Tower of Terror reservations for every single Saturday, and Sorin', Test Track and Malestrom reservations for every single Sunday until my 180 day window comes so I can decide if I want to go or not?
 

GiveMeTheMusic

Well-Known Member
I had to comment on this post.

First of all, you're supposed to bump into others on BUMPER cars. Secondly, it doesn't matter if the no one was hurt when the PM cars bumped, it's a safety issue and someone could have been hurt. I can bet the CM(s) got a safety for that. If a car bumps into your car, are you going to smile and wave at the driver who did it, or are you going to be genuinely concerned?

But SAFETY IS THE FIRST KEY...unless it's inconvenient. Then it's like the 5th key
 

hpyhnt 1000

Well-Known Member
• The FP+ tests at POTC and HM were disastrous, ruining the attractions' previous efficiency.

Hardly surprised. You'd think they would have learned their lesson when they tried to put basic FP on HM a decade ago. All the more amusing considering the "efficient" crowd management that NGE was supposed to bring about.

Guests were told to make purchases only with their Magic Bands. The bracelets didn't increase sales.

Again, hardly surprising. While it may be "cool," RFID payment methods =/= more spending. At the end of the day, quality merchandise and competitive pricing is what drives retail sales.

• The eventual goal of NGen is for everything to be completely scheduled in advance—every ride, every character interaction, every meal. FPs themselves would theoretically be phased out because you'd arrive at each attraction at the proper time anyway. Does this solve lines at WDW? It remains to be seen—it certainly sounds like nothing more than a shell game.

Seriously? This was their ultimate, pie-in-the-sky fantasy for what NextGen was supposed to achieve: to basically eliminate physical lines at EVERY guest interaction by scheduling when guests would be there? Oy...talk about blind ambition.

Great post @tirian. Thanks for the info.
 

PeterAlt

Well-Known Member
Here's a better example to help make my point -

Avatar (the movie)

After its release, movies that weren't made for 3D were suddenly converted to 3D and lots of new movies were released in 3D. None have been as successful. Some were highly successful, but not as successful.

The general thinking was that Avatar was successful because of the 3D. Truth is it was successful because it told a good story and 3D was the director's tool to help convey that story. The other 3D movies that were highly successful, such as Prometheus, were made with that principle in mind. All others were either moderate successes or didn't do so hot because the movie makers or its studio don't get why Avatar's 3D helped make it successful.

Theme park rides are like movies but told through a different medium. A 3D space adventure without a good story behind it that does not use that 3D technology to help bring that story to life will not be successful like one that does. A rollercoaster in the dark with no story behind it will not be successful like one that tells a story, for example, of a rock band that's late for studio recording and races in a limousine against hectic freeway traffic.

If you disagree with me, name one indoor rollercoaster outside of a Disney or Universal theme park that's been more successful than Rock 'N Rollercoaster. There's plenty of rides like that out there...
 

JenniferS

When you're the leader, you don't have to follow.
FP+ will most certainly appeal to a certain category of existing WDW guest.

However, will FP+ appeal to new guests? Will there be an appreciable number who say, "I wasn't planning on going to Disney World but now that I've heard about this FastPass+ thing, I'm changing my plans and heading to Disney!"

I suggest that the answer to this is "no"; FP+ will not make an appreciable difference in attracting new guests.

Now compare that to a similar question about WWOHP: "I wasn't planning on going to Universal but now that I've heard about this Harry Potter land thing, I'm changing my plans and heading to Universal!"

Most clearly, the answer was "yes". (As a side note, I believe the same answer will apply to a new Star Wars Land at DHS; it will help WDW's business, assuming it's done decently. IMHO, Star Wars Land is desperately needed at DHS.)

The NextGen initiative was launched at a time when corporate Disney viewed theme parks as a mature business. There was little they could do to increase overall Orlando tourism so instead focus on capturing more of WDW's guests onsite, similar to what the successful (and much less expensive) Disney Magical Express initiative did.

Bob Iger was with Disney when DAK opened in 1998 and would have seen that an entirely new and expensive theme park did not obtain the desired results. He would have observed similar disappointing results after the opening of DCA in 2001. With essentially no theme park experience, I can imagine how these events would have influenced his view of the industry and fed into the narrative that theme parks in mature markets offered limited growth potential.

So, NextGen was supposed to keep more guests (and their dollars) onsite (along with reduce opex), not drive increased attendance.

That changed with the opening of WWOHP in 2010 and Cars Land in 2012. Suddenly it became apparent that theme parks could experience significant attendance increases with the right offering, namely a highly popular IP encapsulated within an entire land. For NextGen, it was too late. Hundreds of millions had already been sunk into that project.

Now preliminary test results suggest that FP+ will have limited appeal. It will be popular among some guests but won't turn all guests into extreme planners. It won't capture guests onsite the way the much less expensive DME did. The fear within the corporate halls at Disney today is that rather than bother with the relatively steep learning curve associated with MM+, guests will simply opt for new and exciting attractions at Universal, hence the relatively recent scramble to try to do something with DHS.

Earlier it was suggested that a younger generation will embrace MM+ technology. This no doubt is true. Alternatively, I suggest that they are more likely to embrace new and exciting attractions at Universal rather than using their iPhones to book attractions that are 40 years old. My teenagers have iPhones but all would rather ride Forbidden Journey than use their iPhones to book Space Mountain 60 days out.:D

Delays in the deployment of FastPass+ will mean that it will go head-to-head with Universal's Diagon Alley. I know what my money's on to win that battle.:D
I agree with every single word you posted.

In my case (as with most peope, I hope), I only have X number of dollars to spend on geegaws.
Just because Disney has attempted to confine me to their property (fat chance, I have a rental car!) doesn't mean that I miraculously have more money. Cash does not miraculously appear in my pocket. My credit limit doesn't get raised. I can spend what I have budgeted. No more. Possibly less if nothing appeals to me.
I just don't get how data mining is going to make people spend more.

If Disney wants to increase revenue, they are going to have to build a number of spectacular "lands", starring a cast of true E-tickets, with a supporting cast of solid C's and D's. And for Pete's sake, they need to stop letting existing attractions/lands/venues sit empty, ie) Odyssey Center, WoL, Aunt Polly's, upstairs at Imaginations, Innoventions Lame and Lamer, Adventureland veranda ....

If I can reap benefits from MM+, and get a leg up over a Newbie, I will.

I don't hate Uni at all, and will eventually head back there for a day or two. I just don't see myself ever booking ten jam-packed Uni days like I do at WDW.
 

PeterAlt

Well-Known Member
I'm gonna stop you right there.
What? You disagree that it told a good story? Or maybe you didn't like the story? Hey, I won't watch Magic Mike, and if I did I may get sick and not like it, but that's my opinion, which has nothing to do with whether it has a good story or not!
 

GiveMeTheMusic

Well-Known Member
I agree. It is one of the few movies that I started and had off after a half hour. It was terrible. I like to relate it to FLE; just because it is pretty and looks decent does mean it is worth a crap.

I didn't think it was awful - it was clearly an event film and the story was serviceable, but certainly not particularly interesting or "good". It was Dances with Wolves/Pocahontas in space with some other elements blended in, and like most Cameron endeavours, it's too long. What made the film interesting to me was the incredible artistry involved in the creation of the visuals. It was also perfectly timed. I'm not sure it would have been as big a success if it had been released in 2013.
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
I didn't think it was awful - it was clearly an event film and the story was serviceable, but certainly not particularly interesting or "good". It was Dances with Wolves/Pocahontas in space with some other elements blended in, and like most Cameron endeavours, it's too long. What made the film interesting to me was the incredible artistry involved in the creation of the visuals. It was also perfectly timed. I'm not sure it would have been as big a success if it had been released in 2013.
It's power as a franchise is also severely limited. Outside of a small group of fans, it really does not have the cultural relevancy that Star Wars or Harry Potter has. It was really just a gimmicky re-tread of Dances with Wolves/Pocahontas and that is what I hear from most people I know and from the culture in general.
 

danv3

Well-Known Member
The eventual goal of NGen is for everything to be completely scheduled in advance—every ride, every character interaction, every meal. FPs themselves would theoretically be phased out because you'd arrive at each attraction at the proper time anyway. Does this solve lines at WDW? It remains to be seen—it certainly sounds like nothing more than a shell game.

I'm a serious planner, but that sounds absolutely terrible. You vacation becomes basically the opposite of magic. It's work instead.
 

PeterAlt

Well-Known Member
Here's something for all of us to think about... What will happen if NextGen is not successful and Disney looses billions of dollars? Will Disney in Burbank say to WDW "Oops, sorry about that... Here's another billion to fix the parks and add new rides..." Or will they be like they just told DLP: "Tough doo doo. After all your current construction projects are complete, no more love from us!"? If it's the later, we better hope they succeed with whatever their goal is with NextGen!
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Spirited Trip Musings:

Sitting in the lobby of the WL sorta felt like you were an outsider on the set of Honey Boo Boo.
That's just genius! I shall never cease to be amazed by your way with words and rhetoric.

It's exactly how large areas of WDW, indeed central FLA, make me feel. Who are these people who look like their cheque bounced at Walmart but who populate WDW's TS restaurants and luxury resorts?
 
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Voice of Disney sanity

Well-Known Member
that's probably because they didn't plan out their Disney vacation in advance and all they did at IoA was ride rides
No most people are not addicted to pixie dust. So they do not perceive the so called magic when they go to disney. Face it most kids and young adults grew up watching the Simpsons and harry potter more than Snow White or the lion king. The Simpsons have been on tv for almost 25 years, day in and day out new episodes and reruns. Harry potter has 8 movies and has been around for about the last 10 years. Unless you're just addicted to pixie dust then you should realize that these things including transformers etc. are way more hip than the old disney classics. Sure they have nostalgia but only for us old timers. These dark rides lots of folks on here clamor for are pretty darn boring for today's kids and teenagers. They grew up with super technology of interactive fiction ( hi def video games and such) if spirit is right and Uni builds an eticket every year through 2020 and a monorail, 14000 hotel rooms and the a 3rd gate, disney won't nessasarily be dead but they could be in trouble.
 

NoChesterHester

Well-Known Member
Here's something for all of us to think about... What will happen if NextGen is not successful and Disney looses billions of dollars? Will Disney in Burbank say to WDW "Oops, sorry about that... Here's another billion to fix the parks and add new rides..." Or will they be like they just told DLP: "Tough doo doo. After all your current construction projects are complete, no more love from us!"? If it's the later, we better hope they succeed with whatever their goal is with NextGen!

Big difference between DLP and WDW is that investments in DLP have to be treated at debt not just CapEx. There is an important distinction between the two.

They own WDW outright... They won't let it wither on the vine forever. The only good that would come of NGE crashing and burning is that options would be forced to change, executives would take notice, and possibly some heads will roll.
 
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