Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[Goofyernmost]

And that is a big fear as well.

With more officiency, could a 7 day Disney vacation be condensed to 4-5 day trip? Why would somebody stay at a Disney hotel those other 2-3 days when Universal offers a front of the line pass at their hotels?

This could all backfire big time in Disney's face.

I don't think that there has been any solid evidence that this is actually happening. It was just mentioned because they didn't seem to be pushing Park Hopping as much.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Yes! Exactly. They are "experience" rides with no set narrative. They have you imagining their stories through a theme. They themselves have no set storyline.

I don't remember anybody even talking about a narrative (as in spoken). The story starts out in the queue. But, of course, everyone has to rush through so they FP it and either bypass the queue completely or go to fast to see it. The story is there, the silent narrative is there, all anyone has to do is take the time to look at it. Personally I cannot think of a single attraction at Disney that I wasn't aware of the story and felt like I always understood what I was supposed to be seeing.

 

[GLaDOS]

I don't remember anybody even talking about a narrative (as in spoken). The story starts out in the queue. But, of course, everyone has to rush through so they FP it and either bypass the queue completely or go to fast to see it. The story is there, the silent narrative is there, all anyone has to do is take the time to look at it.

But there isn't. There is a simple premise. Not a story.

 

[PeterAlt]

Yes! Exactly. They are "experience" rides with no set narrative. They have you imagining their stories through a theme. They themselves have no set storyline.

That's another form of storytelling. Sometimes when you're forced to use your imagination, a good story could be told even better. In screenplay writing class, my teacher was best friends with Irving Kershner, director of Empire Strikes Back. He said Return of the Jedi would have been better if they never showed the Emperor's face but only showed Luke's reaction to seeing it.

 

[JimboJones123]

I don't think that there has been any solid evidence that this is actually happening. It was just mentioned because they didn't seem to be pushing Park Hopping as much.

FEAR ≠ Happening

Words have meaning.

 

[Cody5242]

Spirited Trip Musings:

Sitting in the lobby of the WL sorta felt like you were an outsider on the set of Honey Boo Boo.

Sitting in the lobby of the Portofino Bay sorta felt like you were at an upscale resort where chowing down on a chicken finger basket in the lobby just wouldn't be done.

Do you think the @EPCOT Explorer is too excited to sleep tonight? Opinion @Lee?

I'm sorry @WDWFigment but when you pen a column about refillable mugs, you are a lifestyler!

Watching the MK get a third bus loop makes you think that Walt would be so proud.

Anyone else think it's time for the UGLY Memories sign and pics in front of the train station go go bye-bye?

I can't help but feel the MK has the same dirty vibe of a typical McD's where every surface needs a deep cleaning.

Work lighting is great if the park is closed and work is being done. Work lighting on in a half dozen EPCOT attractions during park hours is not so great.

Don't kid yourself, summer season ends this week at WDW. Free dining season is what comes next.

No, you do NOT EVER tell a guest that they can't use a restroom unless there is someone dying inside it.

UNI opened Transformers and Springfield USA. Sea World opened Antarctica. Exactly what did WDW offer in the summer of 2013 that was new and different from the summer of 2012 or the summer of 2011 or the summer of 2010 or the summer of 2009 etc ?

So, first the trees came down to improve views of the giant phal... I mean castle. Now, all the gift shops are half empty and look ridiculous so 500-pounders on ECVs can just drive right through. I so love that UNI doesn't feel the need to cater to these folks or the mental defectives of social media. I can't wait to not see them at the opening of Potter 2.0 next year!

Didn't see one lifestyler at Aquatica. You think they may have bathing suit and self-image issues?

That McCafe commercial was shot in one of my favorite places to jog in Manhattan Beach.

Not only did I steal soda brazenly from 4-5 resorts, even when I wasn't thirsty, but I may have swam at a resort I wasn't staying at too.

So, Peoplemover cars were hitting each other and almost caused an injury to myself in May. A comment was left at City Hall. Two months later and nothing has been addressed and the trains are still bumping at load.

Anyone want to tell me that PotC and JC aren't in awful shape?

Watching Artist Point's manager dance around like a nervous bride on his honeymoon night because George Kalogridis wanted BBQ was amusing.

People who actually pay to visit Central Florida theme parks in the summer are insane or British (is that the same? ;-) )

Celebrate the Dream still excites me more than anything in new fantasyland.

Does WDW no longer manufacture LE pins?

Does WDW not sell any Marvel merchandise in its parks?

I loved Incredible Hulk room keys at Portofino Bay.

So, the Disney Archives were in town last week going over Captain Jack's for anything they want to save.

Can you visit WDW and not have a Dole Whip, a Cinnamon bun, a churro or a turkey leg? YES!

I'd rather have a sundae at Friendly's on I-Drive than any 'treat' at the MK. So, I did... Twice.

No, Transformers doesn't raise the bar in O-Town attractions, but it does equal Spidey, something Disney hasn't been able or willing to do since 1999.

Potter recently had all new projections put in that are in perfect focus as the older ones weren't and they were making people sick. In similar news, Soarin still looks like CA is under alien attack from giant dust bunnies.

People flat out can't drive in FL, whether they are tourists or locals. Three accidents within 1000 feet of the exit to Aquatica at the same time on a clear afternoon, including an SUV flipped in the middle of an intersection.

BLT is a great place for great drinks that the DVC is destroying by demanding exclusive use. Here,s a secret, take the bridge across to the fifth floor, get on the elevators for the 15th, get off, walk up the stairs and walk in. The bartenders will be happy if you are drinking.

More serious thoughts to come this weekend if you all buy me a new computer ...hey, I see it working for lifestylers.

I pool hop all the time at Disney World. Nobody ever shuts the gates leading to the pools that require a room key to get in and I've never been asked once to show my key by a cast member. Also do you have to be a DVC member to access the Top of the World Bar at BLT?

 

[danjen2331]

Sorry, Marc Davis and Rolly Crump have both talked about how the HM and POTC were intended to place Guests in the middle of the action and enjoy the experience WITHOUT narratives. Both attractions were originally planned to be walkthroughs with story lines, and both attractions changed in development.

The only stories in the attractions on opening days were that dead men tell no tales (a tacked-on moral of sorts) and that the ghosts materialized after you helped Madame Leota in the seance. That's it.

I suggest reading the official HM and POTC history books from Disney Press.

You are confusing story telling medium and having a plot and characters. Marc Davis was against HM from telling a story with a beginning middle and end like a book, but the ride still has a plot and characters that gets the riders nervous, scared, spooked, and interested; culminating in a great experience.

 

[GLaDOS]

That's another form of storytelling. Sometimes when you're forced to use your imagination, a good story could be told even better. In screenplay writing class, my teacher was best friends with Irving Kershner, director of Empire Strikes Back. He said Return of the Jedi would have been a better script if they never showed the Emperor's face but only showed Luke's reaction to seeing it.

Dude, obscuring someone's face in the middle of a narrative and having absolutely no set story are two COMPLETELY different things. I get that you're really high on this story thing, but the facts of the matter do not support it.

 

[NoChesterHester]

Everyone debating story versus narrative need to start a new thread in chit chat. This thread has become ridiculous and I don't blame Spirit if he decides to move on.

Stop. Please. These inane debates just blow up the thread.

 

[wdwmagic]

In this post you describe what FP+ should have been. If only Disney had simply made it digital! It's the obvious successor to the current system.

I participated in the earlier test at the Contemporary, and it's true that the ability to double-dip reserved FPs and new ones was great. But my co-workers tested the full system on a CM-only preview at the Beach Club, and the limits were frustrating. They couldn't gather as many FPs as usual and spent most of their day standing around Epcot.

A few other points—some negative, some positive:
• The FP+ tests at POTC and HM were disastrous, ruining the attractions' previous efficiency.
• Guests were told to make purchases only with their Magic Bands. The bracelets didn't increase sales.
• The eventual goal of NGen is for everything to be completely scheduled in advance—every ride, every character interaction, every meal. FPs themselves would theoretically be phased out because you'd arrive at each attraction at the proper time anyway. Does this solve lines at WDW? It remains to be seen—it certainly sounds like nothing more than a shell game.
• After these tests, nobody in Ops or mid-level management thinks NGen is going to work. Execs are becoming more openly negative. PhotoPass, automatic attraction photos, Talking Mickey, and hotel room keys aren't functioning properly...
• There is a warehouse full of IT nerds trying to fix computer code and scheduling for FP+ and other components of NGen. Much of the budget overrun is directed here right now.
• The upcoming Imagination refurb and DHS reboot should be successful, but Disney is concerned that no matter what they build, crowds will continue to be unwieldy. NGen was popularized among execs as crowd management.
• The data mining angle was mostly phased out after it raised eyebrows in Congress. Yeah, they'll still track your purchases, but it's no worse than how Super Target offers coupons or how Amazon and Netflix make suggestions.
• @wdwmagic You're right. Simply making the current FP system digital would have been a fantastic system. It's too bad Disney didn't roll things out in phases. As it stands, they bit off more than they could chew.

Is FP+ utterly doomed? No, Disney will figure out a way to use it. It just won't be what was planned.

Interesting post - thanks.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Everyone debating story versus narrative need to start a new thread in chit chat. This thread has become ridiculous and I don't blame Spirit if he decides to move on.

Stop. Please. These inane debates just blow up the thread.

Unfortunately, the reason this thread was created was because a whole bunch of amazing, life changing information was going to be forth coming. None of it has, so we just talk about whatever strikes our fancy. Give us some reality to deal with and I'm sure we will be happy to go that way. If Spirit is upset because this thread has gone a million different directions he doesn't have to look very far to see why. A mirror will do it nicely. This thread was created for a reason and it never materialized. So it really doesn't matter if he participates or not does it? It blew itself up!

 

[NoChesterHester]

Thanks for some real info in the middle of this madness.

Original plan: Crowd management (to avoid costly new attractions) and data mining.

New reality that's slowly gaining traction in TDO: Guests expect new attractions and the data mining thing doesn't tell much more than you can already get by tracking a credit card.

At least the realization is setting in that guests spending thousands on a theme park vacation expect new experiences to warrant continued visits. The issue of course is that they have long since passed the point of no return on NGE and its development cost has absolutely stifled new attraction additions.

 

[HMF]

No, there's an Imagineering rule that every project must tell a story and creating a script and story board are part of the creative process.

"We really don't have a story, with a beginning, an end, or a plot. It's more a series of experiences building up to a climax. I call them experience rides."-Marc Davis

 

[NoChesterHester]

Unfortunately, the reason this thread was created was because a whole bunch of amazing, life changing information was going to be forth coming. None of it has, so we just talk about whatever strikes our fancy. Give us some reality to deal with and I'm sure we will be happy to go that way. If Spirit is upset because this thread has gone a million different directions he doesn't have to look very far to see why. A mirror will do it nicely. This thread was created for a reason and it never materialized. So it really doesn't matter if he participates or not does it? It blew itself up!

But it blew up so quickly without the opportunity to even get more information out there. I understand everyone is starved for info, but come on...

 

[IWant2GoNow]

People park hop for two reasons:

1. They planned out something else to do later in the day, like a dining reservation.

2. They are out of things to do and there isn't a reason to stay longer in that park.

So Disney has decided to try their hand at social engineering rather than address the root issue? Let's force people to make reservations in that park to keep them there!

Brilliant! What could possibly go wrong?

If anyone else is like me...

3. They keep their eye on a particular piece of merch throughout the week, make sure they're not going to go over on their budget, then on the last couple days, park hop at night to buy stuff.

 

[PeterAlt]

Dude, obscuring someone's face in the middle of a narrative and having absolutely no set story are two COMPLETELY different things. I get that you're really high on this story thing, but the facts of the matter do not support it.

Use my bass analogy. The subwoofer effects of the dinos stomping around helped tell a good story better but subwoofer effects by itself or used unncecessarily for a story or bad story that doesn't require it does not make a good story.

Or my Star Wars example. The effects helped bring a good story to life. A movie with just cool space effect without a good story to go with it just isn't the same! A ride with an elevator that free falls with no story behind it explaining why the elevator is there in the first place or why it breaks down is a forgettable novelty, just like those organge things that most of us have already forgotten about at DCA 1.0.

 

[HMF]

Those rides tell great stories, which is partly why they are so good!

Those rides have story elements but are not literal stories. There's a difference.

 

[PeterAlt]

"We really don't have a story, with a beginning, an end, or a plot. It's more a series of experiences building up to a climax. I call them experience rides."-Marc Davis

Your point is? They're still stories, nonetheless, not the kind of stories you're used to with an ending and a beginning. As I said, some times a better story is told when you leave elements of it to the imagination.

 

[JimboJones123]

One is not required to read this thread.

If you do not like it, you can pass on by. I love the organic nature these thread have taken. Any specific news/rumors, Spirit and others have started new threads for

Please do not move this to Chit Chat..


Tip, only click back 3 pages when you come into this thread. Then you can be caught up on the current discussion. Fact ia, these threads have provided the most active discussions that I can remember in site history. It also helps that the "insiders" and respected members like and participate.

Thanks foe keeping this alive Steve.

Everyone debating story versus narrative need to start a new thread in chit chat. This thread has become ridiculous and I don't blame Spirit if he decides to move on.

Stop. Please. These inane debates just blow up the thread.

But it blew up so quickly without the opportunity to even get more information out there. I understand everyone is starved for info, but come on...

 

[PeterAlt]

Those rides have story elements but are not literal stories. There's a difference.

I don't contest this.