Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

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Soarin' Over Pgh

Well-Known Member
Mears offers shuttle service from Disney to Universal, so I imagine they offer the same service in reverse. Last time I used it the cost was $17 per person. Just call and find out. Going to Universal their pick up times in the morning were limited, but they had generous return flexibility. Don't know about headed to Disney though.

That's more affordable than I thought! Doing the math, even factoring in 17 x 2 a day @ Universal deluxe is still coming out cheaper than what I paid for a night at the Poly.

Thanks everyone for your answers. I'm not very familiar with Universal (and I'm not local) but very happy that a lot of you are and can help out us "noobs". :)


As for the other discussion regarding the limited testing of FP+, I had a horrific time with a 'bonus' FP+ for lunch at BoG back in May. Hopefully the check in counter people are more acquainted with how to place orders, set reservations, etc. using the new system... because it took ours a solid 20 minutes plus a manger to get it to set.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
13 people on a FB page poll? Gallup would be impressed. And they are YOUR friends, who more than likely know that you are a Disney buff which Im sure you dont think comes into account in any way. Its more like your leading the horse to water and trying to make him have sex with the water. Whats the point?

It's clear you are predisposed and will make up whatever jibberish to try to respond vs actually addressing the facts. 'have sex with the water'?

And again bias due to being my friends? My links on facebook have virtually no idea of my fondness for Disney. I don't live and breathe Disney - people don't flock to me for Disney advice. It's something for me, not others. In fact, some of the responses are acting like I was asking if FP was a good thing for me or not.. as if I didn't know what it was.

As for the number? It's not about the absolute number, it's about the diversity of the sample that makes the number representative (looks like you've never been exposed to statistics either) and easy to compare when someone makes a claim that the majority of the diverse population believes something... and you sample the same population and see a completely different picture. If it was a majority who felt that way.. wouldn't at least ONE of the 15 people who have replied so far at least had a similar inclination?

Don't believe me.. perform your own polling outside of the fan community and see what you get.
 

fractal

Well-Known Member
comment from righttrack...

OK, so here we are, back. Too much going on to post an actual live trip report but here are the initial thoughts:

Magicbands worked, about 90% of the time. Here are some stats and general info:

  • Fastpass+ - Always worked
  • Room Access - Always worked
  • The App and Website - Sloooooowwww! Fix it! Sometimes buggy as well. If you are seeing odd things, sign out and sign back in. Seems to solve the problem.
  • Room charges - Worked except when down, only one time did this happen to me. A weird thing also happened, that I won't attribute to the bands which was the PIN that stopped working. A trip to the front desk and a PIN change later and we were off. We were given up backup room keys and my PIN (a new requirement) didn't work with it either. The wife and kids's however worked fine.
  • Three Fastpasses a day for us is not enough! We did better with paper, but with the Fastpass+ we ran less.
  • The Fastpass+ does not hop. It would have been nice to use 2 in the morning and 1 in the evening in different parks.
  • A "cheat" exists which is to enter one park with your band, and use all of your Fastpass+ in there, then enter your second park with the backup cards, and do paper Fastpass there. We did that a few days. Worked well, but I don't know how long that loophole will exist.
  • I don't know how much I like being greeted by name on rides.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
Lets pretend the system goes live and it works flawlessly. Great, folks make FP+ choices 60 days out and they get to swipe their band instead of a card and can use their smart phone to change FP if needed. I am not against any of that. It sounds more convenient. But thats it, its just a slightly more convenient vacation. Its great that Disney wants to update the system, but at the tune of 1 billion + dollars and climbing everyday, it seems like soooooooo much money spent to make a vacation SLIGHTLY more convenient. You hear people say things like, "Im so relieved that I know my family will get to ride the attractions they want." Seriously? Has anyone ever really worried about their family not being able to ride the rides they want to? I dont care if you have been 1 time or a hundred times, I never heard anybody say anything remotely close to that.

More people are questioning the financial aspect and the very small return the customer gets for it. Now, other projects are getting put on hold from maintenance to new attraction development. The MagicBands just get bashed because they are the polished turd of this whole operation.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Also, there's greater visibility with Universal's Express Pass. Since it's a pay option for day guests, there are signs EVERYWHERE advertising it and what it does. There isn't any doubt that guests know what it is and that it costs extra. At Disney, since FP is free, it doesn't have the major advertising visibility that Express Pass does at Universal, so guests aren't as knowledgeable as to what it is, where to get it, or how much it costs. So naturally guests get upset when they see people getting an advantage over them and they don't know why. And as said above, the standby lines at Universal don't come to a screeching halt because of Express Pass.

At UNI - the EP signs are everywhere to say 'buy it!' but not much on what it is or how it works... basically 'whats the catch'. At Disney it's a major portion of every map in every park. I don't know how it could get into the hands of every new customer any more direct. If you are new, they will give you a map.. and it's right there in it. It's on all the resort TVs, etc. It's plenty visible.

The problem is people simply don't ask and are oblivious to the information right in their hand.

Every FP distribution area has big signs.. and every FP distribution area is staffed by CMs as is every FP return area. If something were so perplexing... there is amble opportunity to discover what it is. Reality is, some people just hole up and won't look or ask.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Its great that Disney wants to update the system, but at the tune of 1 billion + dollars and climbing everyday, it seems like soooooooo much money spent to make a vacation SLIGHTLY more convenient

because for the billionth time... the billion isn't just for FP+. From queue improvements (HM, Pooh, BTMRR, etc) to websites... and a million other things inbetween.
 

fractal

Well-Known Member
Lets pretend the system goes live and it works flawlessly. Great, folks make FP+ choices 60 days out and they get to swipe their band instead of a card and can use their smart phone to change FP if needed. I am not against any of that. It sounds more convenient. But thats it, its just a slightly more convenient vacation. Its great that Disney wants to update the system, but at the tune of 1 billion + dollars and climbing everyday, it seems like soooooooo much money spent to make a vacation SLIGHTLY more convenient. You hear people say things like, "Im so relieved that I know my family will get to ride the attractions they want." Seriously? Has anyone ever really worried about their family not being able to ride the rides they want to? I dont care if you have been 1 time or a hundred times, I never heard anybody say anything remotely close to that.

More people are questioning the financial aspect and the very small return the customer gets for it. Now, other projects are getting put on hold from maintenance to new attraction development. The MagicBands just get bashed because they are the polished turd of this whole operation.

Ok - now we agree. I also would have wanted them to spend that money elsewhere. I've stated that in this thread. However, that did not happen and now I want to see how this all works. A lot of people, however are so bitter that Disney made this decision ( or have ulterior motives ) that they are now predisposed to hate FP+ no matter what and are literally calling it WDW version of some Orwellian nightmare.

I would rather sit back and see how it upfolds in the real world. I have already argued that they should have spent the money on new attractions, but guess what, that didn't change their mind. I do know that I immensly enjoyed my trip last month despite all the "doom and gloom".
 

Sue_Vongello

Well-Known Member
Who cares if the testing is getting positive reviews, whether the bands work or not was never the issue, the beta tests don't answer the issues the majority of people here had ... will the bands make it convenient to have everything tied to one device? Sure, why not? Will it be appreciably more easy than getting out a card? Doubtful, but some may say yes.

The issues as I saw them laid out here (which can't be resolved in beta testing) were:

1. How many FP will be left day of when EVERYONE is using? (Won't know until completely live)
2. How will the system work with AP holders? (Won't know until Disney tells us)
3. Why did they need to invest this much in this? (Won't know ever.)
4. How will the data mining and tracking work and/or affect us? (Won't know ever.)
5. How does this investment effect future investment into park attractions? (Won't get clear answers.)
6. How many FP a day will be allotted per guests, does it depend on where you stay? (Won't know until completely live)

So to me the positive reviews of the band itself, its functionality, ease of use are nice and all but it doesn't address any of the real issues people here had with the WHOLE program from the start to now.
 

1023

Provocateur, Rancanteur, Plaisanter, du Jour
So this "real world" testing is meaningless but speculation based on hearsay is important enough for 330+ pages of comments?

It would only be "Real World" testing if there were artificial restraints put on it to match the constraints of full participation property wide. Re-read this:

As has already been covered, this is meaningless because the testing is occurring in a vacuum where FP+ are plentiful, even at the last minute. If you got FP and FP+ with essentially all reservations available, I'm sure you'd think highly of the system too. While this testing is important for operational understanding, the feedback from users must be taken with a huge heaping of salt.

If there is no competition for scarcity (read: E-ticket Attractions) then of course it's a perk. If the published information to date is to be believed, unless you sacrifice something, (Read: Sleep, Spontaneity, etc.) you will be hard pressed to get FastPassMinus to work to full benefit. There will be a loss somewhere for the consumer and especially for the "loyal" customers.

Furthermore, "speculation based on hearsay" is caused by lack of complete or consistent information on any and all aspects of this MyMagicMinus foray. This is exacerbated by the negative associated with the NGE's price tag versus the lack of investment in maintaining the parks. Not to mention "loyal" customers being treated with less care and made to feel like a just a source of revenue. When members here can recite quotes about this program getting deeper into the customers wallet it does not instill "high hopes".

Fortunately I will be able to observe all NGE related "fun" on my upcoming trip. I will crow far and wide if I see something different than the "gloom and doom" opined and offered here. My experience so far, all negative. I can't even link my PAP to My Disney Experience. (It's a known issue.)

Let's change the way of thinking about your vacation time.

Every experience you have is "once in a lifetime". The moment you got to experience Space Mountain for the first time can't be replaced. You can attempt to re-create it, but it will always be a different and hopefully enjoyable experience. In a larger respect, every trip to WDW is unique and has it's own memories. You look back and "Remember the Magic". You plan to go back and have an equal or greater experience the next time. After all, the consensuses here is that WDW relies on repeat visits.

This new version of "vacation" time will change all that. By imposing additional limits on your "vacation", your experience will suffer. You now have a schedule that must be maintained or you may "miss out". How many additional melt downs will occur? When a child wants to ride Dumbo again but can't be cause it conflicts with the 4 other things you have to do in a regimented order. Sure you can opt out of those "planning prisons" but then your experiences will really suffer.

When you tour the "parks" with children, you are doing two things; attempting to give them that first great experience and living vicariously by seeing it through their eyes. The first time you ride with them on TSMM can't be replaced. I personally have fond memories of my first attraction experiences with my parents. I want that for all children that visit the "parks". There are already enough limits on your "vacation", (read: time, money, height, etc.) why add more or let some other entity do it?

As far as the testing being completely "meaningless", I would surmise that it is designed to flesh out the actual "functionality" of the bands. It seems that they work as hoped in most cases. They can:

Operate the lock on your door (most of the time).
Can be used as a pay system (most of the time).
Can be used in lieu of a traditional ticket (most of the time).
Can be used to verify reserved attraction passes (most of the time).

I hope they don't unleash this upon the whole of their customer base until the "most of the time" becomes "nearly all of the time" with rare exceptions. I noticed while I was composing this you posted additionally from an experience. Seems like there are a few positives from someone. They still outline the very concerns that some have with MyMagicMinus...

As an aside, remember when customers were "guests"? There is still a taste of that at the original "Disneyland" and it's sister park.

You are a passionate poster whom I agree with most of the time. I understand wanting to sit back and wait. It is clear to me however, that sitting back and not voicing concerns with this whole thing is how we end up with severe disappointments. Recent track record of TDO is the primary cause of this concern.

*1023*

ATTENTION: Usual suspects, please move along. We all know that Disney is a for profit multinational. We all know that we can vacation elsewhere. We all know that we posses more knowledge than some visitors. Etc, etc, etc.
 

Clever Name

Well-Known Member
Is there any way to get from Universal (hotels) to WDW property without renting a car? Just weighing my options for next year. I'd rather not rent a car, if I can avoid it...
It's 7.4 miles. Jog or a brisk walk would be possible. If it were me, I'd make sure that all my luggage had quality wheels. The Orlando area is pretty flat. I'd then get a gas powered motorized skateboard.



Edit: And make sure you have a quality Disney poncho in case of rain.
 
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fractal

Well-Known Member
Who cares if the testing is getting positive reviews, whether the bands work or not was never the issue, the beta tests don't answer the issues the majority of people here had ... will the bands make it convenient to have everything tied to one device? Sure, why not? Will it be appreciably more easy than getting out a card? Doubtful, but some may say yes.

The issues as I saw them laid out here (which can't be resolved in beta testing) were:

1. How many FP will be left day of when EVERYONE is using? (Won't know until completely live)
2. How will the system work with AP holders? (Won't know until Disney tells us)
3. Why did they need to invest this much in this? (Won't know ever.)
4. How will the data mining and tracking work and/or affect us? (Won't know ever.)
5. How does this investment effect future investment into park attractions? (Won't get clear answers.)
6. How many FP a day will be allotted per guests, does it depend on where you stay? (Won't know until completely live)

So to me the positive reviews of the band itself, its functionality, ease of use are nice and all but it doesn't address any of the real issues people here had with the WHOLE program from the start to now.

I use a "bonus card" at Giant supermarket. I'm sure they can track and sell a whole boat load of data on my eating and spending habits. Guess what, I don't really care. I still use it. Now you may say you get a discount for using it, but you can always ask for the "store card" for that. If you don't think that your spending, calling, social networking habits are not currently being tracked, bundled and sold then you are pretty niave. The type of magazines you buy, the websites you visit, the car you drive, almost every interaction you make with the rest of the world is stored and processed in some marketing mainframe. And do you really think the CIA/Government needs Disney World to gather data for them? That is one of the funniest things I've ever read. This very post I'm making is being saved and analysed be some complex algorythim before I even hit the "Post Reply" button.

If that bothers you, don't go to Disney World. Build a cabin up in the secluded mountains and I would probably be envious of your conviction. Otherwise, I would say either get used to it or get over it because data mining and tracking has been going on well before Iger ever heard the word "Next Gen".
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
It's clear you are predisposed and will make up whatever jibberish to try to respond vs actually addressing the facts. 'have sex with the water'?
.

Have you never made sweet passionate love with H2O? Seriously though, I meant that as in its pointless (which i did type). But as @Goofyernmost said, you win. Your FB poll has put the debate to rest. I did not address the facts that a bakers dozen voted thumbs up for FP on your Face Book page. Please poll "The Wise 13" on FB about the crisis in Syria so we can understand how the world is viewing the situation. Now I have to go, there is a creek behind my house that needs some hot lovin'!
 
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Sue_Vongello

Well-Known Member
I use a "bonus card" at Giant supermarket. I'm sure they can track and sell a whole boat load of data on my eating and spending habits. Guess what, I don't really care. I still use it. Now you may say you get a discount for using it, but you can always ask for the "store card" for that. If you don't think that your spending, calling, social networking habits are not currently being tracked, bundled and sold then you are pretty niave. The type of magazines you buy, the websites you visit, the car you drive, almost every interaction you make with the rest of the world is stored and processed in some marketing mainframe. And do you really think the CIA/Government needs Disney World to gather data for them? That is one of the funniest things I've ever read. This very post I'm making is being saved and analysed be some complex algorythim before I even hit the "Post Reply" button.

If that bothers you, don't go to Disney World. Build a cabin up in the secluded mountains and I would probably be envious of your conviction. Otherwise, I would say either get used to it or get over it because data mining and tracking has been going on well before Iger ever heard the word "Next Gen".

There is no need to get defensive.

I am not naive as to how we are being tracked/marketed to now ... this COULD be different, it could not. The point is the beta testing doesn't answer that question.

AND even if the data mining/tracking is off the table then there are still all those other questions I summarized in my last post that CANNOT be answered with beta testing.

We may fall on either end of the optimist/pessimist spectrum on NextGen/MyMagic/Bands ... but neither of us has enough answers to say with any definite evidence if it will be good/bad and my point was that beta testing answers none of the concerns and is beneficial to work out tech issues for Disney but provides us as a consumer virtually zero insight into how the system will REALLY work. No debate to be had at this point.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
Ok - now we agree. I also would have wanted them to spend that money elsewhere. I've stated that in this thread. However, that did not happen and now I want to see how this all works. A lot of people, however are so bitter that Disney made this decision ( or have ulterior motives ) that they are now predisposed to hate FP+ no matter what and are literally calling it WDW version of some Orwellian nightmare.

I would rather sit back and see how it upfolds in the real world. I have already argued that they should have spent the money on new attractions, but guess what, that didn't change their mind. I do know that I immensly enjoyed my trip last month despite all the "doom and gloom".
Always glad to hear someone had a good visit! I admit that I was one of the bitter ones knowing that money could have done so many wonderful things. I also understand their need to implement new systems and infrastructure and in the end, its their money to do what they want with. It will of course be interesting to see how it all plays out.

I may not like it, but it isnt stopping me from still enjoying my favorite spot in EPCOT with a nice cold adult beverage sitting next to my beautiful wife while the sun sets. We visit more to do the small things and just enjoy being there together and we hit an attraction if there is a short wait. They can implement all the new technology they want, it wont take away the things that are magical for us. Again, glad you had a good trip. Did you write a trip report? I would love to read it!
 
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71jason

Well-Known Member
So this "real world" testing is meaningless but speculation based on hearsay is important enough for 330+ pages of comments?

It's real world testing like a pre-opening tasting at a restaurant. Sure it's the same recipes and the same chef, but he has extra time to really get the details right, and there's that feeling that you're special because you're getting an early preview. Two weeks after opening when the place is packed and he's in the weeds with tickets, and you're stuck sitting next to a family in flip-flops and tank tops, your meal might not be quite as good.
 

Sue_Vongello

Well-Known Member
It's real world testing like a pre-opening tasting at a restaurant. Sure it's the same recipes and the same chef, but he has extra time to really get the details right, and there's that feeling that you're special because you're getting an early preview. Two weeks after opening when the place is packed and he's in the weeds with tickets, and you're stuck sitting next to a family in flip-flops and tank tops, your meal might not be quite as good.

Also in that pre-opening you have no way of knowing how hard it will be to get a table, what specials might be available, or who your waiter will be when it officially opens.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Who cares if the testing is getting positive reviews, whether the bands work or not was never the issue, the beta tests don't answer the issues the majority of people here had ... will the bands make it convenient to have everything tied to one device? Sure, why not? Will it be appreciably more easy than getting out a card? Doubtful, but some may say yes.
[...]
So to me the positive reviews of the band itself, its functionality, ease of use are nice and all but it doesn't address any of the real issues people here had with the WHOLE program from the start to now.

The tests do have value to the discussion when we are talking about the mob think of 'everyone hates FP+' or 'it will never work for me!'. Your list of 'issues' leaves out many of the points of discussion earlier

1. 'I won't wear the band because it's clunky!'
2. 'I don't wear jewelry!!'
3. 'I get rashes!'
4. 'My kids won't wear them!'
5. 'Is it really any easier to use a band vs card?'
6. 'people don't want to use their smartphones'
7. 'its too complicated!'
8. 'I don't know where/what I want to ride ahead of time!'
9. 'the wifi sucks and it never works'
10. 'what happens when I miss my FP+ reservation'
11. 'what if it gets lost'
12. 'Pin is bad!' 'Pin is good!' 'PIN is cumbersome!'
etc
etc
etc


Does it address all concerns? of course not... not all the true constraints are in place yet. But the real world testing does sample what happens when you put the gen pop in the mix and not just the assumptions people here were dreaming up over how people will respond to using the bands, tap to pay, etc.
 

Lord_Vader

Join me, together we can rule the galaxy.
If Virginia spent $2 billion to add a lane to the freeway I use on my commute everyday and let me and dozen other people test it out, we'd all love it and give rave reviews about the test. When testing concludes and the general populous is allowed on the lane, my thoughts about how wonderful that lane is will certainly change and, since my hypothetical takes place in the DC area, I assure you one lane will do nothing to solve the traffic problems.

That the FP+ infrastructure is functioning properly in small scale and usable and hence, getting good reviews is encouraging -- BUT, that is not most peoples main concern with FP+. I assume eventually disney will be able to make the system operable, I'm concerned about having to plan my rides 60 days in advance and having little to no availability to make changes on the day of. That concern is not being tested now and is, in my opinion, the biggest flaw in the entire FP+ plan. Of course, on a personal level, I am an uber planner and I think I will be able to use FP+ to my advantage.

Who is saying that are not modeling the number of available FP+ slots on a given attraction based on the number of participants compared to the pool of non-FP+ guests?

For example, 1,000 FP+ guests, 49,000 general guests so 2% of total FP slots are allocated to FP+ system from the FP system pool. This would, as accurately as possible, replicate a realistic availability level for FP+ slots on a given ride. This would allow Disney to assess guest reaction to attractions with no FP availability. In addition, TDO has no way to accurately model what demand will be for attractions such as fireworks and parades without including them in the testing process.

Your comparison assumes that Disney has allocated 100% of FP+ availabilty to 1% of the guests, which IMHO is an inacurate analogy.
 
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