Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[Snowflake82]

At UNI - the EP signs are everywhere to say 'buy it!' but not much on what it is or how it works... basically 'whats the catch'. At Disney it's a major portion of every map in every park. I don't know how it could get into the hands of every new customer any more direct. If you are new, they will give you a map.. and it's right there in it. It's on all the resort TVs, etc. It's plenty visible.

The problem is people simply don't ask and are oblivious to the information right in their hand.

Every FP distribution area has big signs.. and every FP distribution area is staffed by CMs as is every FP return area. If something were so perplexing... there is amble opportunity to discover what it is. Reality is, some people just hole up and won't look or ask.

My son and I were in the fast pass line for Splash, and the man in front of us has 2 extra fast passes from family members who weren't riding, so he offered them to two young ladies in the standby line and allowed them to jump in with his party. They were quite appreciative, as they had no idea what fast pass was or how to get one. He proceeded to explain to them that it was a perk for Disney hotel guests and it was really worth staying on site to get it. And this was just last year, not back in the early days of fast pass. (And I just kept my mouth shut...)

 

[fractal]

There is no need to get defensive.

I am not naive as to how we are being tracked/marketed to now ... this COULD be different, it could not. The point is the beta testing doesn't answer that question.

AND even if the data mining/tracking is off the table then there are still all those other questions I summarized in my last post that CANNOT be answered with beta testing.

We may fall on either end of the optimist/pessimist spectrum on NextGen/MyMagic/Bands ... but neither of us has enough answers to say with any definite evidence if it will be good/bad and my point was that beta testing answers none of the concerns and is beneficial to work out tech issues for Disney but provides us as a consumer virtually zero insight into how the system will REALLY work. No debate to be had at this point.

Name one company that does provide insight on their data collecting/tracking methods. The government tracks everything and literally an act of Congress won't get them to reveal but a small scratch of the surface.

I appreciate the respond and maybe I was a bit defensive. Perhaps because I posted some real world experience from other's trip reports and instantly was attacked as being "insulting" and passing off meaningless information.

Anyway, good luck to you.

 

[flynnibus]

My son and I were in the fast pass line for Splash, and the man in front of us has 2 extra fast passes from family members who weren't riding, so he offered them to two young ladies in the standby line and allowed them to jump in with his party. They were quite appreciative, as they had no idea what fast pass was or how to get one. He proceeded to explain to them that it was a perk for Disney hotel guests and it was really worth staying on site to get it. And this was just last year, not back in the early days of fast pass. (And I just kept my mouth shut...)

Yeah, misinformation is quite strong. But we could say the same things about park hopping, transportation, the name of the castle, Walt's history in the park, etc Disney (nor anyone really) can't squash all the misinformation.

As a fun aside... look at Coke's efforts to squash misinformation about their company
http://www.coca-colacompany.com/contact-us/coca-cola-rumors-facts

 

[flynnibus]

Actual real world quote tonight from Michelle:

"I'm not wearing a bracelet and getting a tan line"

I thought brits only burned.. and never tanned??

 

[ford91exploder]

I thought brits only burned.. and never tanned??

Also did not Noel Coward have something to say about only mad dogs and Englishmen stay in the noonday sun

 

[ford91exploder]

Not fear, For many of us in the professional world we spend much time creating plans and schedules and being tied to a smartphone 24x7, Disney for many of us was a way to 'Check out from the REAL WORLD' turn off the smartphone and just be a kid again with our kids,

Now Disney comes up with a system which is the love child of a "Pasty IT type" and "Monk" level OCD which requires us to be buried in our smartphone(s) to make sure we can actually use the attractions at Disney.

This removes VALUE from our vacaton and provides NOTHING to us in return, This is leaving out the distinctly un-magical types Disney is partnering with to deliver the system.

Being DVC i've spent a lot more than the average Disney visitor and had I known about the NGE I probably would not have done my last add on and I've told my guide that Disney's recent moves make it unlikely that I'll be doing any more add-on's in the forseeable future AND DW and I are planning parkless DVC vacation next year.

 

[WDW1974]

But it should also be noted that the motivations here do not change at all. Everything you listed about Disney, their intents, and motivations are exactly as it is today. These additions are just new tools to help refine the data they are working with. So Disney will be 'better' at doing this, it does not change what Disney is or what it desires to be.

So.. if you were already ok with Disney shaping itself, driving itself, in these fashions before... are things really going to be that different?

First, I wish I had the time to spend here and go after NGE that you have to spend here to defend it. Oh, I know the story you'll spin. That you are not defending it, merely trying to be fair and balanced and waiting to see what happens. Not wanting the tinfoil hat brigade to get control of the narrative (even in one 'trivial' thread on some unimportant message board on a Disney fan site that no one reads!) ...

But, seriously, who does that ?

And to what end? You can drop 25 posts in this thread alone in a day pontificating on why NGE may actually be good (it is not, but that is not the point) and at the end of the day it comes off as propaganda. Nothing more than those godawful 'I'm With The Band' tees that Disney is shilling.

Look, I respect your knowledge of technology. I also bet you are in the top 20 percent of IQs here. But when Marriott installed their WiFi and RFID locks were you slavishly pushing how great these developments were on hotel forums? Of course not, because Marriott was just making standard upgrades. They weren't pimping out the tech as anything more than it was.

Whether things will actually be different, which I believe is your point above, is something you can't possibly begin to state. You don't know. I can't say I know completely either. I can say I have a better handle on things. I've seen documents- I've been allowed to play with Disney's CM only toys. I've had execs and front line cast share experiences, which sorta speak louder than a smattering of positive trip reports from people being treated SPECIALLY (many being paid off when things haven't gone right). There certainly is enough to concern me.

One other point:

Accurate, better targeted data can actually harm you. It can diminish rather than enhance your vacation experience at WDW and this tech allows Disney to do that without you ever knowing. Will that happen to you? Will you, ultimately, pay more for less? If you are reading this, as an active poster or casual fan, you will pay more for less. Why?

Because Disney knows you will.

Now, tell me (Flynn or anyone) what part of Jay Rasulo's explanation to Wall Street analysts did you not understand? I do not think you can be more direct than to say 'we've designed this really great system to capture more money from our guests' wallets.'

Those are not my words.

Love it. Hate it. Going with Flynn's fair and balanced, wait and see, approach.

Doesn't really matter. This is all about what's in it for Disney.

 

[StarWarsGirl]

Not fear, For many of us in the professional world we spend much time creating plans and schedules and being tied to a smartphone 24x7, Disney for many of us was a way to 'Check out from the REAL WORLD' turn off the smartphone and just be a kid again with our kids,

Now Disney comes up with a system which is the love child of a "Pasty IT type" and "Monk" level OCD which requires us to be buried in our smartphone(s) to make sure we can actually use the attractions at Disney.

This removes VALUE from our vacaton and provides NOTHING to us in return, This is leaving out the distinctly un-magical types Disney is partnering with to deliver the system.

Being DVC i've spent a lot more than the average Disney visitor and had I known about the NGE I probably would not have done my last add on and I've told my guide that Disney's recent moves make it unlikely that I'll be doing any more add-on's in the forseeable future AND DW and I are planning parkless DVC vacation next year.

And people who don't own Smartphones...it makes it more difficult for them. My father doesn't even have a cell phone and has no desire to plan the attractions in advance. I use my iTouch to check wait times, but I don't want to be tied to it the whole time I'm in the parks.

 

[ford91exploder]

And people who don't own Smartphones...it makes it more difficult for them. My father doesn't even have a cell phone and has no desire to plan the attractions in advance. I use my iTouch to check wait times, but I don't want to be tied to it the whole time I'm in the parks.

Exactly - how does being tied to a digital ball and chain enhance one's vacation experience???, Inquiring minds want to KNOW

 

[WDW1974]

Not much time today for MAGIC, but I would be remiss if I didn,t point out that the Disney Parks Blog apparently invited 100 or so bloggers and Lifestylers to a meet up to show off the revamped California Grill (most who would never dine at the restaurant on their own if they actually had to ... Well, you know ... Pay. This is the group that orders burgers without cheese so they can save 30 cents or takes cups of water because they are too cheap to pop for a Coke. In other words, they are not regulars to the Grill.)

The back and forth whining on Twitter about who got invited and who didn't is typically amusing.

Disney may not be transparent about much, especially NGE. But about buying local whores?They sure don't mind if the world sees it all for what it is.

 

[WDW1974]

As someone who was there last week (and not testing FP+) using the MDE app was awesome. From the wait times, to FP windows, to ride closures and re-openings, we saved so much time and felt like we were ahead of the crowds all week. Friday, our last day was a perfect example.

We decided to scrap our 5pm ADR for the GF Café and left the MK to go swimming at BLT. After we walked back, got a snack, changed into our bathing suits, as soon as we put our towels down on a lounge chair the thunder started and they closed the pools. Since we canceled our ADR we decided to go back to the MK for the rest of the night. However, I looked at the MDE and it showed that 5 or 6 attractions including Splash and BTMRR were temporarily closed (my guess is due to the thunder/lightning). What did we do? Made a quick ADR for Kona (party of 6) and was on the monorail to the Poly in 20 minutes for dinner and then onto the MK for the rest of the night. All on the go, spur of the moment.

Largely sounds like what I would term common sense. I don't see how MDE did a thing that common sense wouldn't do for someone.

 

[ford91exploder]

Not much time today for MAGIC, but I would be remiss if I didn,t point out that the Disney Parks Blog apparently invited 100 or so bloggers and Lifestylers to a meet up to show off the revamped California Grill (most who would never dine at the restaurant on their own if they actually had to ... Well, you know ... Pay. This is the group that orders burgers without cheese so they can save 30 cents or takes cups of water because they are too cheap to pop for a Coke. In other words, they are not regulars to the Grill.)

The back and forth whining on Twitter about who got invited and who didn't is typically amusing.

Disney may not be transparent about much, especially NGE. But about buying local whores?They sure don't mind if the world sees it all for what it is.

Question what IS a "Lifestyler"????

 

[flynnibus]

First, I wish I had the time to spend here and go after NGE that you have to spend here to defend it. Oh, I know the story you'll spin. That you are not defending it, merely trying to be fair and balanced and waiting to see what happens. Not wanting the tinfoil hat brigade to get control of the narrative (even in one 'trivial' thread on some unimportant message board on a Disney fan site that no one reads!) ...

Don't hate because my job requires spans of brilliance.. followed by periods of waiting for the machine to do its thing

And to what end? You can drop 25 posts in this thread alone in a day pontificating on why NGE may actually be good (it is not, but that is not the point) and at the end of the day it comes off as propaganda. Nothing more than those godawful 'I'm With The Band' tees that Disney is shilling.

And what does all this add to the discussion? Stick to the topic of Disney.. not me. You've already gone down that road and lost.

To the rest... I won't bother going point by point because it's not what I was responding to in the first place. Bolna was elaborating why he thought this program was different from a loyalty card... differences I don't disagree with at all. But I was responding to was the undertones of what is behind valuing those differences. As quoted below...

The thing is, all the knowledge they gain could be used to really enhance the guest experience, but it can also be used to enhance the company's profit

So NextGen is not about getting people to travel to Disney instead of to the beach for their summer vacation. It is all about maximising the profit they make out of every single visitor. And therefore there is no need to offer discounts to get your business

These motivations are the same as Disney has had for decades. These are simply new tools to do so. So I'm not concerned Disney has taken on some new evil path.. it's the same selfish power moves they've been making since the mid nineties. Now they have some new tools to do their business with.

I don't suscribe that this reflects some new pivot in how Disney views it's customers or its intention for those customers. Disney just stands to (potentially) be a lot more efficent at targeting them and their efforts to trim corners without causing too much disruption. Same crap they've been doing and have basically built a rep for.

One other point:

Accurate, better targeted data can actually harm you. It can diminish rather than enhance your vacation experience at WDW and this tech allows Disney to do that without you ever knowing. Will that happen to you? Will you, ultimately, pay more for less? If you are reading this, as an active poster or casual fan, you will pay more for less. Why?

Because Disney knows you will.

Not me... I just returned from my third vacation of the year on Tuesday.. and it didn't involve WDW. When I leave on holiday again in November, I'll wave at WDW as I drive by Orlando.. but won't be stopping. If they manipulate things to the point of discouraging customers.. eventually the customers will react. I have.

Now to your point about targeted data harming you... sure I can see some scenarios where they happens.. but as I said, if Disney reduces my enjoyment of Disney... I'll simply stop going. I don't have a problem not vacationing at Disney. That is the line Disney has to balance.

Now if they manage to do something that works better for Disney in how they target me, but my experience is still good or how I want it to be... sounds like a win/win to me.

There is a tipping point for customers. It's not the same for everyone.. and Disney certainly has a lot more leeway with many than other companies do... but it's not unlimited power.

I could really care less if Disney ultimately screws the pooch and self-destructs. Will I miss it? Probably. Will I work myself up over it? No. Will my life be less because of it? Not really... hell it might even be healthy for a lot of people to be forced to look elsewhere. Disney self-destructing becomes a new opportunity for others to fill the void.

I believe in the feedback loop... Disney can stretch the path... even hurt people along the way... but they can't ignore the consequence of doing so. They can bury it in volumes... but ultimately if you do it enough to enough people.. it will come back to bite you.

 

[luv]

Question what IS a "Lifestyler"????

As it was explained to me, these are mentally ill people who have an abnormal fixation on Disney, going to parks nearly daily.

Of all the things to fixate on, I think Disney is probably on of the better ones. It certainly beats stalking women, taking drugs, etc.

I wish the lifestyles all the best.

 

[ford91exploder]

As it was explained to me, these are mentally ill people who have an abnormal fixation on Disney, going to parks nearly daily.

Of all the things to fixate on, I think Disney is probably on of the better ones. It certainly beats stalking women, taking drugs, etc.

I wish the lifestyles all the best.

Thanks, There are indeed worse things to fixate on

 

[Animaniac93-98]

It certainly beats stalking women

Are the Disney Princesses not women too? I'm sure they can do without pasty, overweight men in crocs frequently visiting them.

 

[Big C 73]

Exactly - how does being tied to a digital ball and chain enhance one's vacation experience???, Inquiring minds want to KNOW

The Disney experience is about taking in the immersive environment in which the imagineers created and crafted to a perfection nearly 42 years ago. In past decades the Disney company tries to distract you with physical sets, kinetic energy by objects moving and the overall movement of the structural design, and the overall show scene. In the modern society we are attracted to our electronic devices for entertainment, communication, and fun. Inside of the real world, within reality, within normal we use our phones. Walt Disney World is to disconnect you from the idea of reality and of an actual life that contains problems and struggles within its realms. When I pull out my iPhone in the middle of Main Street U.S.A , I loose my sense of fictional reality. My fantasy has been shattered. When I see my text from "Billy","Samantha", or "Joe telling me about what happened downtown today I am lost.

The Next-Gen program is a great idea in my honest opinion. There are many great things about the system that I feel are preferably good for the guest of Walt Disney World. I know a lot of people will not like my statement of backing the company, but I'm looking at an overall big picture. One thing I do criticize of this new program is the use of your phone or electronic device. First, it limits the availability to all guest. Second, it distracts from the planned show and experience in which you are meant to put yourself into. The question is how are you going to do that while running into strollers, tripping of curves, and rescheduling that attraction? Make the kiosks the only place you will be able to change your reservations would be the best idea to not ruin the show in my opinion. These phones are only teaching our youth to live in a virtual world even more. Nothing's real, except if you can see it. Just look up.[/quote]

 

[nytimez]

Of all the things to fixate on, I think Disney is probably on of the better ones. It certainly beats stalking women, taking drugs, etc.

One does not necessarily come at the exclusion of others. Especially the "etc."

I don't think it will come as too much of a shock if/when a lifestyler makes headlines for something other than Disney one of these days...

 

[Tod&BigMamaOdie]

Are the Disney Princesses not women too? I'm sure they can do without pasty, overweight men in crocs frequently visiting them.

Hey! I do not wear crocs!!!

 

[ford91exploder]

The Disney experience is about taking in the immersive environment in which the imagineers created and crafted to a perfection nearly 42 years ago. In past decades the Disney company tries to distract you with physical sets, kinetic energy by objects moving and the overall movement of the structural design, and the overall show scene. In the modern society we are attracted to our electronic devices for entertainment, communication, and fun. Inside of the real world, within reality, within normal we use our phones. Walt Disney World is to disconnect you from the idea of reality and of an actual life that contains problems and struggles within its realms. When I pull out my iPhone in the middle of Main Street U.S.A , I loose my sense of fictional reality. My fantasy has been shattered. When I see my text from "Billy","Samantha", or "Joe telling me about what happened downtown today I am lost.

The Next-Gen program is a great idea in my honest opinion. There are many great things about the system that I feel are preferably good for the guest of Walt Disney World. I know a lot of people will not like my statement of backing the company, but I'm looking at an overall big picture. One thing I do criticize of this new program is the use of your phone or electronic device. First, it limits the availability to all guest. Second, it distracts from the planned show and experience in which you are meant to put yourself into. The question is how are you going to do that while running into strollers, tripping of curves, and rescheduling that attraction? Make the kiosks the only place you will be able to change your reservations would be the best idea to not ruin the show in my opinion. These phones are only teaching our youth to live in a virtual world even more. Nothing's real, except if you can see it. Just look up.

I've Criticized NGE a great deal but I've never thought about it in terms of show, You are correct one of it's worst attributes its that it's 'Bad Show' its use of personal smart devices detracts from the overall environment. This harks back to design of the MK itself the Utilidors were designed to prevent 'Space Cowboys' ie show elements in inappropriate settings for the element