Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[lazyboy97o]

Again, if people just get an RFID-blocking wallet, the whole thing becomes a non-issue. Unless, of course, you're wearing the band. If you have a Sunpass, you can order an RFID-blocking bag from them. For free. Throw the band in there.

Or get some tin foil. Funny that the thing people joke about is actually a solution, lol, but it is.

The RFID cards already don't engage in the location tracking...

 

[luv]

The RFID cards already don't engage in the location tracking...

Nice to know. Mine goes in the RFID-protected wallet because that's my wallet. I'm much more worried about criminals with scanners than I am about Disney knowing that I rode Maelstrom, lol.

Now that I have the wallet, I don't worry about any of it.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Following an individual vs the aggregate is again dependent on the type of application. The idea of personal coupons or incentives are examples where a continuity of data about the individual can be interesting

One of the disappointing trends I've seen in recent years is to disproportionally increase prices on WDW's best customers. Annual passes, longer stay tickets, and DVC prices have increased greater than the average, restrictions to Tables in Wonderland continue to be added, while people who visit frequently often are the least likely to receive discount pins. It appears Disney has decided their more loyal customers will buy the product no matter what; it's the opposite of a frequent buyer program.

Rather than offer incentives, I've started wondering if Disney intends to do the opposite with MyMagic+.

WDW prices are governed by the principle of "price discrimination". Price discrimination, commonly represented in the phrase, “whatever the market to bear”, dates back centuries. It’s based solely on what someone is willing to pay, regardless of supply or demand. In an ideal price discrimination system, a company selling something is able to charge each individual consumer the maximum they are willing to spend. The price of something has no bearing on its cost or what someone else is paying for it.

In the traditionally demonized example, "whatever the market will bear" means charging someone thousands of dollars for a drug they need to survive, even though it costs only pennies to develop and manufacture that drug and the supply of that drug is plentiful.

Disney has been working towards price discrimination for some time and, with the information they are collecting from MyMagic+, would be in a position to move towards something called “perfect price discrimination”. In a nutshell, it means getting each person to spend the absolute greatest amount possible for their WDW vacation even if the person next to them is paying significantly less for essentially the same vacation.

To achieve perfect price discrimination, Disney needs as much information as possible about each person. MagicBand is designed to allow Disney to collect sufficient information so they can crunch this data and determine what each person's threshold of pain is. Since perfect price discrimination is illegal (WDW cannot, for example, charge you $200 for a ticket because that's what you're willing to pay while charging me $20 for that same ticket because that's what I'm willing to pay), Disney will have to modify this to offer slightly different packages to groups of consumers so it could legally argue that two different groups aren’t paying substantially different prices for identical vacations.

Looking at this simplistically, Disney is not going to offer you (for example) “Free Dining” if you are willing to book your vacation without it, even if every other person in the park is receiving “Free Dining”. We already see this principle at work, with many receiving "Free Dining" PINs for times that are not available to the general public. As Disney collects more data through MyMagic+, they will be able to target this sort of incentive more effectively, making sure the only "guests" who receive these discounts are those who would not visit WDW without them.

If the current trend continues, it seems likely that Disney intends to use the data it collects through MyMagic+ to effectively "punish" its most loyal customers.

 

[khale1970]

Overwhelmingly, polls show the public dislikes being spied on. I'll pick on the Washington Post poll regarding the NSA's spying program as a starting point. About 70% of Americans don't like it.

How many of that 70% have quit using email or making phone calls? How many have gone to an encrypted email system? Not liking it and changing your behavior or habits to avoid it are entirely different.

 

[PhotoDave219]

How many of that 70% have quit using email or making phone calls? How many have gone to an encrypted email system? Not liking it and changing your behavior or habits to avoid it are entirely different.

Apples and oranges. Those are basic parts of communication in life; we have to use the phone and email people.

You dont HAVE to go to Disney World.

 

[khale1970]

I don't believe the government's bureaucracy is any better than Disney bureaucracy.

Both are full of useless middle management who just push paper and try to make themselves look good.

Yeah, but I know how to opt out of the Disney bureaucracy. How do I opt of the the governments?

 

[fractal]

This thread has officially gone off the deep end.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Yeah, but I know how to opt out of the Disney bureaucracy. How do I opt of the the governments?

You leave. Canada. Mexico. Great Britian. Anywhere else, really....

 

[ParentsOf4]

How many of that 70% have quit using email or making phone calls? How many have gone to an encrypted email system? Not liking it and changing your behavior or habits to avoid it are entirely different.

When it comes to using emails or making phone calls, people have no choice; these technologies are an integral part of modern American life. Citizens expect the government to provide the protections guaranteed in the Constitution. People expect Congress to act.

Conversely, a vacation at WDW is a choice (as so many have emphasized). People don't need Congress to act. If Disney was to fully disclose their true intensions, we could all be informed consumers and act with our wallets.

Disney does not want to fully disclose exactly because they know it would have an adverse impact on business, offsetting the gains they hope to achieve through the NextGen initiative. Disney wants to keep its customers ignorant of its intentions.

 

[khale1970]

Apples and oranges. Those are basic parts of communication in life; we have to use the phone and email people.

You dont HAVE to go to Disney World.

If 70% of the population truly opposes it, they could change it by changing how they vote. Yet I doubt they will because at the end of the day their true political priorities lie elsewhere. If 70% of Disney customers are opposed to MM+ due to it's data mining but that opposition doesn't lead to a change in how they consume the Disney product, then TWDC won't see any need to change. In both cases it's possible to effect change through modifying behavior (voting or consuming), but if we say we will tolerate the privacy intrusion in order to reap some other benefit (political or recreational/entertainment) then nothing will change. A 5% shift in consumption of recreation/entertainment or how the people vote would be sufficient to change how the government or Disney operates, but it requires that the 5% demand that change and make those who refuse to change pay through loss of political power or loss of profit.

 

[PhotoDave219]

If 70% of the population truly opposes it, they could change it by changing how they vote. Yet I doubt they will because at the end of the day their true political priorities lie elsewhere. If 70% of Disney customers are opposed to MM+ due to it's data mining but that opposition doesn't lead to a change in how they consume the Disney product, then TWDC won't see any need to change. In both cases it's possible to effect change through modifying behavior (voting or consuming), but if we say we will tolerate the privacy intrusion in order to reap some other benefit (political or recreational/entertainment) then nothing will change. A 5% shift in consumption of recreation/entertainment or how the people vote would be sufficient to change how the government or Disney operates, but it requires that the 5% demand that change and make those who refuse to change pay through loss of political power or loss of profit.

That doesnt address the point that telephone communication is a necessity for life in 2013.

Visiting a theme park resort for recreational entertainment does not.

I'm not disagreeing with your tangent neither am I addressing it.

 

[khale1970]

When it comes to using emails or making phone calls, people have no choice; these technologies are an integral part of modern American life. Citizens expect the government to provide in protections guaranteed in the Constitution. People expect Congress to act.

People might expect Congress to act, but Congress said no thank you. Both parties joined together to make sure that the NSA and it's spying wouldn't be stopped. In the 2014 elections, the voting population will have an opportunity to make those elected officials who allowed the spying to continue pay by voting them out of office. I'd be amazed if this issue moves one congressional district from one party to the other or results in a primary challenge that defeats a sitting senator/congressman.

We can choose to go to Disney and we can choose who represents us in the White House or in congress and bring about change. But we continue to give Disney our money and continue to vote for the same people election after election.

 

[khale1970]

That doesnt address the point that telephone communication is a necessity for life in 2013.

Visiting a theme park resort for recreational entertainment does not.

I'm not disagreeing with your tangent neither am I addressing it.

I agree that it's easy to avoid a theme park or any other recreational activity and hard to avoid using the communication tools of the 21st century. But if 70% of the population is opposed to government spying on our emails and phone calls it should result in significant change in the congress and White House. I doubt that the NSA or IRS scandals will cause any significant change in who wins political office in 2014 or 2016 because most voter's true priorities lie elsewhere and their elected representatives will see no reason to change their behavior on matters of privacy. I don't know if the same is true for TWDC, but if it is then the TWDC will not see any reason to change their behavior on MM+ and it's data mining. The voters and consumers have the ability to force change but I have little faith that a significant enough population in either group care enough to vote or consume in a manner that goes against their self interest in a way that would effect that change.

 

[stevehousse]

I agree that it's easy to avoid a theme park or any other recreational activity and hard to avoid using the communication tools of the 21st century. But if 70% of the population is opposed to government spying on our emails and phone calls it should result in significant change in the congress and White House. I doubt that the NSA or IRS scandals will cause any significant change in who wins political office in 2014 or 2016 because most voter's true priorities lie elsewhere and their elected representatives will see no reason to change their behavior on matters of privacy. I don't know if the same is true for TWDC, but if it is then the TWDC will not see any reason to change their behavior on MM+ and it's data mining. The voters and consumers have the ability to force change but I have little faith that a significant enough population in either group care enough to vote or consume in a manner that goes against their self interest in a way that would effect that change.

Very true, if the public did vote for change it would have already happened years ago. And I love how just now the whole spying on Americans is just coming to light about a good 10 years of it already going on.

I had a friend staying at a military base whom I visited back in 2004. He was there stationed to listen to people's phone records! There are set "phrases" ad "words" that if spoken, they can tap into your call and listen and playback to make sure you aren't a "terrorist"!

If be more afraid of that than Disney knowing where I eat and what I buy...

 

[PhotoDave219]

I agree that it's easy to avoid a theme park or any other recreational activity and hard to avoid using the communication tools of the 21st century. But if 70% of the population is opposed to government spying on our emails and phone calls it should result in significant change in the congress and White House. I doubt that the NSA or IRS scandals will cause any significant change in who wins political office in 2014 or 2016 because most voter's true priorities lie elsewhere and their elected representatives will see no reason to change their behavior on matters of privacy. I don't know if the same is true for TWDC, but if it is then the TWDC will not see any reason to change their behavior on MM+ and it's data mining. The voters and consumers have the ability to force change but I have little faith that a significant enough population in either group care enough to vote or consume in a manner that goes against their self interest in a way that would effect that change.

Theres a fundamental difference between the NSA legally (thru the Patriot act! Repeal today!) spying on Americans (in the name of national security) and Disney compiling consumer data without your knowledge all for their corporate profits.

Now I don't like what the NSA has done. They kind of run themselves and I have no choice than to put up with it short of not every using a telephone or the internet, because lets face it. Theyre spying on everyone worldwide and everything that goes across the internet. Leaving the country isnt an option; moving out to the country and getting off the grid may be one. Alas, its a level of bull(Pooh!) im willing to endure for the moment.

To get away from the aforementioned Bull(Pooh!), I tend to visit WDW to escape. I do not go there expecting my every move to be put into a computer in order for them to try and maximize profits or have my shopping/spending habits sold to a 3rd party. I go there to be entertained, not to be part of some sort of orwellian science project.

I could give a crap about the mid-term elections or 2016 because it doesnt bloody matter - there are elements of the government that just run themselves, no matter who is alledgedly in charge. You cant unring the bell.

But this is about Disney. I have no problem with them taking the finger print. (I get those reasons and have little problem with them) I have no problem with facial recognition on CCTV (again Private property, i expect to be watched) But I draw the line there. You don't get to track me under the guise of "lost children." (Im rather offended that they would stoop so low to use that as their excuse) You dont get to track my spending habits, what i prefer, how much time I spend doing everything, what I eat, what I ride and so forth. Thats none of their business.

So Again, Apples and Oranges. Personal privacy is under attack. (Seriously NSA Guys, go check that new chinese place. Totally worth it). I'll put up with it from my government but I will not put up with it from the place where I'm trying to escape the governmental intrusions.

 

[menamechris]

Yikes....

 

[lazyboy97o]

But this is about Disney. I have no problem with them taking the finger print. (I get those reasons and have little problem with them) I have no problem with facial recognition on CCTV (again Private property, i expect to be watched) But I draw the line there. You don't get to track me under the guise of "lost children." (Im rather offended that they would stoop so low to use that as their excuse) You dont get to track my spending habits, what i prefer, how much time I spend doing everything, what I eat, what I ride and so forth. Thats none of their business.

Keep using cash and they can't track your spending. Don't ask for a MagicBand and they won't track your location.

 

[GoofGoof]

One of the disappointing trends I've seen in recent years is to disproportionally increase prices on WDW's best customers. Annual passes, longer stay tickets, and DVC prices have increased greater than the average, restrictions to Tables in Wonderland continue to be added, while people who visit frequently often are the least likely to receive discount pins. It appears Disney has decided their more loyal customers will buy the product no matter what; it's the opposite of a frequent buyer program.

Rather than offer incentives, I've started wondering if Disney intends to do the opposite with MyMagic+.

WDW prices are governed by the principle of "price discrimination". Price discrimination, commonly represented in the phrase, “whatever the market to bear”, dates back centuries. It’s based solely on what someone is willing to pay, regardless of supply or demand. In an ideal price discrimination system, a company selling something is able to charge each individual consumer the maximum they are willing to spend. The price of something has no bearing on its cost or what someone else is paying for it.

In the traditionally demonized example, "whatever the market will bear" means charging someone thousands of dollars for a drug they need to survive, even though it costs only pennies to develop and manufacture that drug and the supply of that drug is plentiful.

Disney has been working towards price discrimination for some time and, with the information they are collecting from MyMagic+, would be in a position to move towards something called “perfect price discrimination”. In a nutshell, it means getting each person to spend the absolute greatest amount possible for their WDW vacation even if the person next to them is paying significantly less for essentially the same vacation.

To achieve perfect price discrimination, Disney needs as much information as possible about each person. MagicBand is designed to allow Disney to collect sufficient information so they can crunch this data and determine what each person's threshold of pain is. Since perfect price discrimination is illegal (WDW cannot, for example, charge you $200 for a ticket because that's what you're willing to pay while charging me $20 for that same ticket because that's what I'm willing to pay), Disney will have to modify this to offer slightly different packages to groups of consumers so it could legally argue that two different groups aren’t paying substantially different prices for identical vacations.

Looking at this simplistically, Disney is not going to offer you (for example) “Free Dining” if you are willing to book your vacation without it, even if every other person in the park is receiving “Free Dining”. We already see this principle at work, with many receiving "Free Dining" PINs for times that are not available to the general public. As Disney collects more data through MyMagic+, they will be able to target this sort of incentive more effectively, making sure the only "guests" who receive these discounts are those who would not visit WDW without them.

If the current trend continues, it seems likely that Disney intends to use the data it collects through MyMagic+ to effectively "punish" its most loyal customers.

I think you probably nailed it with this post. The true value of the system to Disney is a boat load of info that will help guide decisions that have in the past been a little more random. I think you are probably correct that the "incentives" could be streamlined to be offered to those that need some convincing. If someone is willing to return anyway and pay full price then why offer them a discount?

Another possible use is to guide their cost cutting and cutbacks. With all of the info gathering they will have a ton of data on how popular things are. Not just rides or shows, but literally every aspect of the resort. In an extreme example they will literally know how many people sat on a particular bench in a park, how many minutes the bench was occupied and how often people walked by but didn't stop to sit. If they are considering whether to add more benches or which benches to replace, repaint or remove this data could be useful. Rather than hiring a cast member to collect this type of data over a few days they could compile a run rate of the last 6 months. We all know WDW has been cutting back on everything over the last decade or so and this new tool could be used to continue that trend more efficiently.

Increasing efficiency at reducing discounts and cutting back on offerings. Seems magical to me

 

[ParentsOf4]

Keep using cash and they can't track your spending. Don't ask for a MagicBand and they won't track your location.

It's a nice idea but many will still opt-in for MagicBand. Besides, as I'll try to explain below, Disney will still group you as a certain type of "guest" no matter what you do and target pricing towards you accordingly.

MagicBand allows Disney to collect detailed behavioral information about each individual. Correlating this individual behavior with patterns of behavior collected from large groups, Disney can then start to identify each consumer's "reserve price" (i.e. the most you'd be willing to pay for something). With enough information, Disney would know what's the absolute most you'd be willing to spend for something and then charge you that amount for it. The goal is not simply to get customers to buy more (traditional advertising), but to force each customer to pay the absolute most for each aspect of their vacation even if no one else is paying that price.

I'm not a behavioral specialist but will present a completely fictitious example.

Let's say you wear a MagicBand and tend to rush through the post attraction stores. Disney will know this because they will track your location. Disney could interpret this behavior as someone who is likely to return to WDW because this type of person loves the attractions so much they want to ride them again and again. Even if they have no historical behavior about you, Disney could know that this type of person is highly likely to return to WDW within the next 6 months. Therefore, do not offer this person a "Free Dining" incentive because they are likely to return on their own without any incentive.

Again, this is a completely made-up example; don't take it literally. However, hopefully this demonstrates how Disney could use the information collected through MagicBand to increase revenue.

With your particular approach, spend cash and not use MagicBand, Disney will still correlate that pattern of behavior with a certain type of guest and target pricing towards you accordingly.

 

[GoofGoof]

It's a nice idea but many will still opt-in for MagicBand. Besides, as I'll try to explain below, Disney will still group you as a certain type of "guest" no matter what you do and target pricing towards you accordingly.

MagicBand allows Disney to collect detailed behavioral information about each individual. Correlating this individual behavior with patterns of behavior collected from large groups, Disney can then start to identify each consumer's "reserve price". With enough information, Disney would know what's the absolute most you'd be willing to spend for something and then charge you that amount for it. The goal is not simply to get customers to buy more (traditional advertising), but to force each customer to pay the absolute most for each aspect of their vacation even if no one else is paying that price.

I'm not a behavioral specialist but will present a completely fictitious example.

Let's say you wear a MagicBand and tend to rush through the post attraction stores. Disney will know this because they will track your location. Disney could interpret this behavior as someone who is likely to return to WDW because this type of person loves the attractions so much they want to ride them again and again. Even if they have no historical behavior about you, Disney could know that this type of person is highly likely to return to WDW within the next 6 months. Therefore, do not offer this person a "Free Dining" incentive because they are likely to return on their own without any incentive.

Again, this is a completely made-up example; don't take it literally. However, hopefully this demonstrates how Disney could use the information collected through MagicBand to increase revenue.

With your particular approach, spend cash and not use MagicBand, Disney will still correlate that pattern of behavior with a certain type of guest and target pricing towards you accordingly.

They could also take the approach of a casino reward card program. You can sit down and play blackjack or slots anonymously, but If you opt out of being tracked and don't use the reward card while you gamble you get no offers or incentives at all from the casino. Cash guests who opt out of the band and only use cash could become completely invisible to Disney. Nice from a privacy standpoint, but it could cost you in the end.