Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

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GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
hakunamatata said:
I don't have that much faith......
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I have to admit, I'm a little lost here. What would the IRS gain from having access to medical records?

On the Disney front, I'm more concerned with Disney's system being hacked (we all know Disney's poor track record with websites and that type of technology) and/or cast members gaining access to my personal info than getting unsolicited ads or e-mails from Disney or even from a "partner" if they go that route.
 
PhotoDave219

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
GoofGoof said:
On the Disney front, I'm more concerned with Disney's system being hacked (we all know Disney's poor track record with websites and that type of technology) and/or cast members gaining access to my personal info than getting unsolicited ads or e-mails from Disney or even from a "partner" if they go that route.
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Its just dangerous in and of itself.

You think Disney, you don't think of a nefarious large corporation tracking your every move. Thats not what Disney does; they do family entertainment.

With the Government, well yes. (Hey NSA Guys, you try that new chinese place yet!?)
 
Clever Name

Clever Name

Well-Known Member
SJFPKT said:
No no. I meant what spirit said. Heck I am on a phone, maybe I am missing something :confused:
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Ok, I got ya' now. We can only hope that 74 is not that ill informed. However, he has stated that he is not very savvy concerning technical issues.
 
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flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
Goofyernmost said:
I do believe that this gives them the opportunity to collect actions of individuals more so then a camera might, but I fail to see what about it would be worth mining other than as a grouping of identities. How many people would it take to monitor the thousands and thousands of individuals that are at WDW a day. There isn't enough man power or time to evaluate everything on an individual level, just as a group, just like camera's do, except you are a number instead of a photograph.
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Your concern is exactly why the tagged individual is so much more powerful. You don't need anyone to sift through it to break people out or more people to follow more people - it's all automatic and just becomes a numbers game. Someone can go back afterwards and look at an individual if they want to - but the computers just churn through it all efficiently .

There is value in both aggregated activity and data of an individual. They have different uses
 
John

John

Well-Known Member
Goofyernmost said:
I don't for a minute think that it isn't a loss of innocence to some people, but, and this must by my age here, where have you all been. This has been going on for years and years.

It started pretty much when the first security systems were introduced and has just evolved from there. If people at this point are "losing their innocence" then they haven't been paying attention for quite a while. The idea that we are being watched is of no concern, or shouldn't be anymore. It has been a part of life for a long while. Did everyone think that those little dark grey bubbles in the ceilings of retail stores were the places that they stored balloons?

So, it is a given that information has been collected and in one way or the other, collated and stored for the last 50 years. That's not important, what is important is what is being done with that information. Back when none of us realized that it was happening, at least on a conscience level, it was very dangerous. We didn't know to ask questions. Now we do, it is way less dangerous then before. I don't care if they can now tell that those that stay in luxury resorts tend to buy more Mickey plush's or use the bathroom closest to Haunted Mansion or tend to eat salads instead of greasy hamburgers. I don't know, what we are afraid of? Is it that all the information will be turned over to the KGB or perhaps McDonalds encouraging them to carry a larger variety of salads? The only people that have a genuine use for that information is Disney and, as I said before, they may be dumb, but they aren't stupid enough to tell the competition what their guests are doing or buying. Hell, they won't even tell us, their fan base, what they are doing or planning. That would or could give competition a competitive advantage without the cost of actually obtaining it. It is not in their best interest to tell the enemy the locations of troop movements. Just makes no logical sense at all.
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WOW....just wow. Nice of you to twist my words. I am not talking about the loss of innocence in general. Come on we are not all poly anna's. My implication was that there was a sense of innocence gone from WALT DISNEY WORLD. Not life in general. In WDW there the simple pleasures.... WDW was insulated from the big bad outside world. It was planned that way. The fact that they are going to sell my info isn't as bothersome as the fact in how which they want to gather the information. As said they already have been doing it for sometime. But now they are just upping the anty. This information gathering aspect is just one piece of the program. It is also a way for Disney to manipulate crowds. I don't want to be manipulated voluntarily or involuntarily while I am on vacation. I think we all agree that with this program they are trying to curb park hopping. FP+ without a doubt is a way to manipulate crowds. Is it in the best interest of business and trying to allocate resources? probably...but at what expense to the guest? IMO we are no longer being treated as guest but a commodity. To be traded and used. You don't mind...I get it. But I do mind it when I pay thousands of dollars to be treated that way.

It isn't the gathering of info that is bothersome....although I am not totally happy about it. What ticks me off is....Is this just the beginning. Right now its just magic bands and FP+ what is the next step? Where does the technology go from here? Disney and wall street is a beast that can never be satisfied. Must be fed more and more.....never being enough. This is the outside world that has infiltrated our little piece of heaven on earth. Now as most of you said this is going on all around us all the time....now its right here in WDW. I don't like it....you don't mind....I get it.
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
flynnibus said:
Your concern is exactly why the tagged individual is so much more powerful. You don't need anyone to sift through it to break people out or more people to follow more people - it's all automatic and just becomes a numbers game. Someone can go back afterwards and look at an individual if they want to - but the computers just churn through it all efficiently .

There is value in both aggregated activity and data of an individual. They have different uses
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True, but by doing it that way wouldn't it be logical to think that individually it is of very little concern? Instead of just you...don't you become a cross section that can be zeroed in on, but in all probability would not warrant it? I would think it would be of little value when intersperse with all the other "numbers". One couldn't possibly keep track or use individual information to any useful degree. As a cross section of profiles...that I can understand, but it still would take too much time to individually analyze without some red flag focal point. Would there?
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Arewethereyet! said:
WOW....just wow. Nice of you to twist my words. I am not talking about the loss of innocence in general. Come on we are not all poly anna's. My implication was that there was a sense of innocence gone from WALT DISNEY WORLD. Not life in general. In WDW there the simple pleasures.... WDW was insulated from the big bad outside world. It was planned that way. The fact that they are going to sell my info isn't as bothersome as the fact in how which they want to gather the information. As said they already have been doing it for sometime. But now they are just upping the anty. This information gathering aspect is just one piece of the program. It is also a way for Disney to manipulate crowds. I don't want to be manipulated voluntarily or involuntarily while I am on vacation. I think we all agree that with this program they are trying to curb park hopping. FP+ without a doubt is a way to manipulate crowds. Is it in the best interest of business and trying to allocate resources? probably...but at what expense to the guest? IMO we are no longer being treated as guest but a commodity. To be traded and used. You don't mind...I get it. But I do mind it when I pay thousands of dollars to be treated that way.

It isn't the gathering of info that is bothersome....although I am not totally happy about it. What ticks me off is....Is this just the beginning. Right now its just magic bands and FP+ what is the next step? Where does the technology go from here? Disney and wall street is a beast that can never be satisfied. Must be fed more and more.....never being enough. This is the outside world that has infiltrated our little piece of heaven on earth. Now as most of you said this is going on all around us all the time....now its right here in WDW. I don't like it....you don't mind....I get it.
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Well, don't twist my words either. In certain situations I do mind it. I just don't give a hoot about what Disney knows about me. Unless they are planning on using extortion of some sort, it only has an affect if I let it. One cannot be manipulated unless one allows it.

I don't believe that they are all out trying to curb park hopping. I don't believe that because unless they expand on what there is to do in the other parks (other then MK) they stand to loose more revenue then gain. I, for example, am not going to stay in AK, just because I cannot go to another park. I will leave there, go back to my hotel, chill out or if I have transportation, go somewhere else and spend money elsewhere. There is just so much that they can control. If by noon time I am bored with AK, am I just going to spend the rest of the day yawning, but stay in AK? Why would I?

It has been a very long time since we have been anything other then a commodity. Call it what you want...guest or commodity, that is what we have been. A rose by any other name is still a rose. You are correct about one thing, it is just the beginning. The future still lies ahead and electronics are the future. At some point you will not be able to burp without someone knowing about it. It is what we have become as a civilization. Blame it on Disney if you want, but it would not be prudent to expect that Disney shouldn't keep up with the world we live in just because we find it unethical. For it to mean anything we would need to focus in on every single contact that we have that is doing the same thing and refuse to let them do it. That's not going to happen, so if we don't allow Disney to be current...we will see Disney left behind.

Make no mistake about it. Disney did not create this situation. Everyone of us that demanded immediate electronic access to everything created this. Those of us that cannot go over 3 minutes without looking at a tiny little screen are the ones that created this. It is this immediate gratification society that created the demand and technology along with the good and bad usage of said technology.
 
PhotoDave219

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Goofyernmost said:
Well, don't twist my words either. In certain situations I do mind it. I just don't give a hoot about what Disney knows about me. Unless they are planning on using extortion of some sort, it only has an affect if I let it. One cannot be manipulated unless one allows it.

I don't believe that they are all out trying to curb park hopping. I don't believe that because unless they expand on what there is to do in the other parks (other then MK) they stand to loose more revenue then gain. I, for example, am not going to stay in AK, just because I cannot go to another park. I will leave there, go back to my hotel, chill out or if I have transportation, go somewhere else and spend money elsewhere. There is just so much that they can control. If by noon time I am bored with AK, am I just going to spend the rest of the day yawning, but stay in AK? Why would I?
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Im not sure why you would drop $3B in trying to Modify guest behavior when it would be infinitely cheaper to just build more rides and attractions, thereby attracting guests?

Have these people not played Rollercoaster Tycoon before?
 
Cosmic Commando

Cosmic Commando

Well-Known Member
Finally caught up!

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Somebody tag me when we get back to talking about how far away Bespin is from Hoth or the sand inside of Hulk. :rolleyes:

BTW, @lebeau Luke did not finish his training in ESB. He left after he had a vision of his friends in pain. Yoda begged him not to go. You should know this, man! :p

@PhotoDave219 , I really liked your point about monetizing the admission media. Charging 14.95 for an R2-D2 MagicBand that cost 1.99 to make(and replaces tickets that cost you money to print) is brilliant. There are nuggets of good ideas, but this whole thing is just too much. I've said before that I was ready for Fastpass to take a step forward, but what we're getting is 20 steps in a direction we won't know until $3B have been spent.
 
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Soarin' Over Pgh

Soarin' Over Pgh

Well-Known Member
cslafferty said:
Not that anyone out there has been holding their breath wondering what my take on all of this is, but here it is anyway. Keep in mind, these are just my humble thoughts; I am not a techie, business person, or investment banker. Just your average, middle-aged (hate that term) consumer who likes to go to WDW for vacation once a year.

Disney has a history of being on the cutting edge: Walt's animation process revolutionized film, bringing us all those wonderful classics we grew up with; Walt's dream of Disneyland and the development of animatronics revolutionized the entertainment industry and how we all spend our vacations. Now, I believe Disney is still trying to be on the cutting edge, but this time it is not directly being felt by all of us consumers - well, at least not in a good way. This time I believe they are trying to revolutionize the relationship between producer and consumer like never before. And, while others are racing to build rides, Disney is willing to take a temporary back seat to all of that in order to put their efforts into this, because they can see that if this works out the way they intend, it will pay off for them in a BIG way. Then, I am hoping that they will take some of that pay off, and put it back into the parks to put them back into the running. There have been posts throughout this forum suggesting that there won't be anything big in the parks for a few years, and that would make sense. It will take that long to see some of the monetary effects of Nex Gen - "data mining" and all.

How does this make me feel? Well, I guess I've always believed that "Big Brother"was watching anyway, and pretty much knows how many times I . . . well let's just say they know whether or not I need a coupon for Activia sent to my email! :rolleyes: Disney already knows where I live and has my credit card info on their website and has for years, and that's the biggie as far as I'm concerned. Does it really matter to me that they know when and how often I walk into one of their shops, how much time I spend there, and what I end up purchasing? Which rides I ride, shows I see, and which ones I don't? Maybe I'm naive, but it really doesn't bother me. Maybe that will help them see which attractions are keepers and which aren't. And as far as them selling my info to others in order to influence when and how I spend my money . . . well, I can only be influenced if I let it happen.
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Ahh, the "I have nothing to hide so bring it on! " route. Ok, I'll bite.

It's hen pecks. Little, insignificant hen pecks. Each peck is another tiny hole but one day, it will be a big hole. We already have enough pecks. Now we have a vacation peck, followed by ads and inquiries from our vacation- another few pecks.


Do you see where this is going?



Edit to add... @Cosmic Commando I liked your post so hard (TAP!) and fast my Internet browser crashed
 
luv

luv

Well-Known Member
Again, if people just get an RFID-blocking wallet, the whole thing becomes a non-issue. Unless, of course, you're wearing the band. If you have a Sunpass, you can order an RFID-blocking bag from them. For free. Throw the band in there.

Or get some tin foil. Funny that the thing people joke about is actually a solution, lol, but it is. :)
 
flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
Goofyernmost said:
True, but by doing it that way wouldn't it be logical to think that individually it is of very little concern? Instead of just you...don't you become a cross section that can be zeroed in on, but in all probability would not warrant it? I would think it would be of little value when intersperse with all the other "numbers". One couldn't possibly keep track or use individual information to any useful degree. As a cross section of profiles...that I can understand, but it still would take too much time to individually analyze without some red flag focal point. Would there?
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There is value there - and the resolution you look at depends on your motivations. This is why so much of this discussion depends on what they want to leverage

But an example of inbetween info is by having your person info - their aggregate studies can be examined with demographic filters... Age, race, couples vs families, etc

To how hard it is or not... That's what the whole analytics industry is about ... Pulling useful analysis and correlations out of the raw data.

Following an individual vs the aggregate is again dependent on the type of application. The idea of personal coupons or incentives are examples where a continuity of data about the individual can be interesting
 
Cosmic Commando

Cosmic Commando

Well-Known Member
flynnibus said:
There is value there - and the resolution you look at depends on your motivations. This is why so much of this discussion depends on what they want to leverage

But an example of inbetween info is by having your person info - their aggregate studies can be examined with demographic filters... Age, race, couples vs families, etc

To how hard it is or not... That's what the whole analytics industry is about ... Pulling useful analysis and correlations out of the raw data.

Following an individual vs the aggregate is again dependent on the type of application. The idea of personal coupons or incentives are examples where a continuity of data about the individual can be interesting
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That sounds so much harder than "build a cool ride/land; offer products for sale that complement said ride/land".
 
Clever Name

Clever Name

Well-Known Member
luv said:
Again, if people just get an RFID-blocking wallet, the whole thing becomes a non-issue. Unless, of course, you're wearing the band. If you have a Sunpass, you can order an RFID-blocking bag from them. For free. Throw the band in there.

Or get some tin foil. Funny that the thing people joke about is actually a solution, lol, but it is. :)
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I'm going to put the tin foil on my head where it belongs.
 
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