Spirited News & Observations II -- NGE/Baxter

[OFTeric]

This is a tricky area you are all dabbling in.

so when you look at park numbers those don't represent Unique visitors. What we have are basically a lot of the same people for multiple days.

Now PLEASE correct me, but I do believe that of
DAKs 9 Million visitors 1+ million were 1 Day 1 Park tickets
DHSs 9 Million visitors 1+ million were 1 Day 1 Park tickets
Epcots 11 Million visitors 1+ million were 1 Day 1 Park tickets
MKs 17 Million visitors 3+ million were 1 Day 1 Park tickets

Now I have been making an argument now for a while that complimentary admissions that Disney gives out to employees and to the Hospitality Industry artificially inflate the visitor count.

Here are a rough estimation:
WDW has 51,000 Employees who on average receive 16 Days of Free tickets for 3 guests
51,000 x 16 x 3 = 2,448,000 admissions (if they were all used)

Disney also gives people who work in hotels, tickets, booking, transportation complimentary admission to 1 park per year with a guest. LINK I believe and PLEASE CORRECT me but last I heard there were about 35,000 of those handed out each year
35,000 x 4 x 2 = 280,000 admissions (if they were all used)

So we are looking at about 2.6 million visitors in the counts being from complimentary admissions.

But when I think about 1 Day 1 Park tickets and I think... if I paid 90.00 to get into DHS or DAK would I feel like I got my money's worth? And what would my perception of WDW be after that?

 

[OFTeric]

Total Disney World Attendance...

• 2003: 37,700,000
• 2004: 40,700,000
• 2005: 42,800,000
• 2006: 45,110,000
• 2007: 46,990,000
• 2008: 47,146,000
• 2009: 47,513,000
• 2010: 47,086,000
• 2011: 47,449,000

I think that in 2010 they looked at Star Tours as their once ever 3.75 years E-ticket addition. The problem was, it was replacing an existing C/D-ticket and they didn't advertise it substantially outside of 50 miles from the parks. The parks have been relatively stagnant since 2006 and attendance has reflected it. But an investment into new E-ticket attractions results in increased attendance.

Let's not forget for two of those years you could get free admission for completing community service and by going on your Birthday.

 

[huntzilla]

Not sure if it has been brought up yet, but let's give @WDW1974 a round of a applause for finally selecting an avatar. Well done, it's been a long time coming. Clearly though, your photo is too revealing and TDO will finally out you and shut you down. Le sigh....

 

[alphac2005]

The other parks increased as well. Expedition Everest and Soarin' resulted in over a 4 million guest jump in attendance resort wide from 2005 to 2007.

It's hard to determine at that time what caused the increases, but I get your point. It's more likely that people turning their homes into banks is what caused the uptick as travel as a whole soared as people just spent and spent with their endless house cash flows.

 

[alphac2005]

I gave you your first like for that post. It may be a sad statement, but true nonetheless.

I feel this society has been headed this way for a good 15 years (but boy did things spring fast forward post 9/11).

People are simply too accepting of anything and everything that they get from Big Business or Wall Street or the government.

It is pleasantly surprising that as many Disney fans are as critical as they are -- and that should scare the company.

9/11 was the lynchpin my friend. My wife and I listened to all the Kumbaya talk and said that people will become the polar opposite and worse than ever, contrary to what people were claiming they were going to be like. We can surely see how it's all worked out.

It's interesting as well in that we've talked a lot about the concept of spoiled children, the narcissistic generation, etc. and I was talking to a psychologist friend yesterday that was zeroed in on that and going on about what a mess it is today and that society is essentially collapsing because of the pandering to children (I'm looking at you WDW property), the endless scheduling, the lack of a child to find self, and so forth. One of my boys just finished the basketball season and I was pleasantly surprised to hear the coach tell the kids that they wouldn't be getting a trophy, which they all have become accustomed to, because that is something that has to be earned and not given. To actually hear someone today state that they won't get a "participation trophy" warmed my heart.

 

[HMF]

9/11 was the lynchpin my friend. My wife and I listened to all the Kumbaya talk and said that people will become the polar opposite and worse than ever, contrary to what people were claiming they were going to be like. We can surely see how it's all worked out.

9/11 and its aftermath was definitely when I noticed a major cultural change even though I was still relatively young at the time (just entered Middle School) you definitely got a sense that people were becoming more divisive and things really seem to have been going downhill since then but I often wonder whether the 90s and the year and a half of the 21st Century prior to 9/11 really were as good as I remember them or have things always been this bad and I am merely glorifying my childhood or both.

 

[twebber55]

9/11 and its aftermath was definitely when I noticed a major cultural change even though I was still relatively young at the time (just entered Middle School) you definitely got a sense that people were becoming more divisive and things really seem to have been going downhill since then but I often wonder whether the 90s and the year and a half of the 21st Century prior to 9/11 really were as good as I remember them or have things always been this bad and I am merely glorifying my childhood or both.

in the words of the great philosopher Colin Cowerd "The good ol days weren't as good as you think they were"

 

[alphac2005]

9/11 and its aftermath was definitely when I noticed a major cultural change even though I was still relatively young at the time (just entered Middle School) you definitely got a sense that people were becoming more divisive and things really seem to have been going downhill since then but I often wonder whether the 90s and the year and a half of the 21st Century prior to 9/11 really were as good as I remember them or have things always been this bad and I am merely glorifying my childhood or both.

You're not rose coloring your childhood. The 90s had a sense of optimism (and well placed with the tremendous job growth) in this country that had not been seen in decades, however, our politics began devolving in the 90s and I've always believed in the idea that top to bottom repercussions that do seem to pan out. If the people at the top of our government can't be civil and act like clowns, it's not hard to see that the rest of society will as well.

 

[openendedsky]

You're not rose coloring your childhood. The 90s had a sense of optimism (and well placed with the tremendous job growth) in this country that had not been seen in decades, however, our politics began devolving in the 90s and I've always believed in the idea that top to bottom repercussions that do seem to pan out. If the people at the top of our government can't be civil and act like clowns, it's not hard to see that the rest of society will as well.

Especially since they're the 'leaders', people look up to them and that behavior is reflected by their many followers.

9/11 and its aftermath was definitely when I noticed a major cultural change even though I was still relatively young at the time (just entered Middle School) you definitely got a sense that people were becoming more divisive and things really seem to have been going downhill since then but I often wonder whether the 90s and the year and a half of the 21st Century prior to 9/11 really were as good as I remember them or have things always been this bad and I am merely glorifying my childhood or both.

Lately I've been finding myself wondering the same thing.

 

[Lee]

Not sure if it has been brought up yet, but let's give @WDW1974 a round of a applause for finally selecting an avatar. Well done, it's been a long time coming. Clearly though, your photo is too revealing and TDO will finally out you and shut you down. Le sigh....

It's about time he got with he program.
And I must draw attention to the excellent camera work on display. Whoever took that shot of DHS's "hidden 74" is clearly a talent and a man to be reckoned with. Genius at work.

 

[RSoxNo1]

It's about time he got with he program.
And I must draw attention to the excellent camera work on display. Whoever took that shot of DHS's "hidden 74" is clearly a talent and a man to be reckoned with. Genius at work.

What's the significance of his avatar?

 

[ScoutN]

It's about time he got with he program.
And I must draw attention to the excellent camera work on display. Whoever took that shot of DHS's "hidden 74" is clearly a talent and a man to be reckoned with. Genius at work.

I wonder who took that. Haha. It's about time it went up.

 

[Lee]

What's the significance of his avatar?

It's the "hidden 74" at DHS.
(On account of how all his screen names have "74" in them.)
See...imagineers love him...

 

[Lee]

I wonder who took that. Haha. It's about time it went up.

Guilty!
And yes, it is.

 

[MattM]

Nah.
Fantasmic won't work at MK without HUGE modifications to Frontierland and its infrastructure.

Could it be replaced? Sure

I was only making a point to the guy who wanted rumors and less same ole, same ole by showing that making up rumors for the sake of a discussion board really does nobody any good.

Should have conspired something with @WDW1974 and @Lee to give it some credibility though

 

[Lee]

I was only making a point to the guy who wanted rumors and less same ole, same ole by showing that making up rumors for the sake of a discussion board really does nobody any good.

Should have conspired something with @WDW1974 and @Lee to give it some credibility though

Nah...that was a pretty good effort. Not bad at all for someone who isn't a bus driver.

Rumors aren't hard to make up. Making them just believable enough is the tricky part.
Yours was good.
That nonsense Harry Knowles was spreading about a Star Wars land in DCA....not so much.

 

[flynnibus]

9/11 and its aftermath was definitely when I noticed a major cultural change even though I was still relatively young at the time (just entered Middle School) you definitely got a sense that people were becoming more divisive and things really seem to have been going downhill since then but I often wonder whether the 90s and the year and a half of the 21st Century prior to 9/11 really were as good as I remember them or have things always been this bad and I am merely glorifying my childhood or both.

I think 9/11 was more the impetus of government change.. as it gave government the excuse for radical action. The culture shift is more generational. 80s was materialistic, 90s was excess, and 00's has been the 'me me me' explosion. The difference now is the change has spread to many generations and not just the latest. So it's not just kids, but 20s, 30s, and upwards.

IMHO - its the unintended consequences of the comfy, coddling, everyone is a winner mentality that started in the late 90s. People are raised to think 'no one suffers' and then they throw a fit when someone tells them 'tough'.

 

[flynnibus]

The average guest earns $150-200 per day for Disney when you factor in hotel occupancy, merchandise, food and tickets. Expedition Everest saw attendance increase at the Animal Kingdom by a million guests and it cost roughly $100,000,000 to build. At these numbers, the ROI was reached in less than a year. What's the problem?

You left out the operational costs during that period too. You simply took gross revenue and treated it as if it were profit. Doesn't work that way

 

[Sneezy62]

9/11 and its aftermath was definitely when I noticed a major cultural change even though I was still relatively young at the time (just entered Middle School) you definitely got a sense that people were becoming more divisive and things really seem to have been going downhill since then but I often wonder whether the 90s and the year and a half of the 21st Century prior to 9/11 really were as good as I remember them or have things always been this bad and I am merely glorifying my childhood or both.

9/11 may have defined the moment. I think of historical shifts more in terms of ocean waves. Just as waves build crest and devolve into rip currents so do societal, economic and political waves. The 70's were an example of the rip current, as were the 30's and the end of the 1800's beginning of the 1900's. We may very well look back in a decade or two and realize that in 2011 to 2013 we had simply been swept farther out to sea than we knew but IMHO we are likely out of the worst of the rip current and maybe even getting ready to ride some small waves back closer to shore. The is still a lot of paddling to do.

Is the magic band the right paddle for WDW? Who knows. I'm thinking not but there are obviously a lot of opinions about and it's fun and frustrating trying to cipher it all out. Just some thoughts from somebody who may have skipped the best thirty years. For my kids sake though I hope not.

 

[raymusiccity]

This is a tricky area you are all dabbling in.

so when you look at park numbers those don't represent Unique visitors. What we have are basically a lot of the same people for multiple days.

Now PLEASE correct me, but I do believe that of
DAKs 9 Million visitors 1+ million were 1 Day 1 Park tickets
DHSs 9 Million visitors 1+ million were 1 Day 1 Park tickets
Epcots 11 Million visitors 1+ million were 1 Day 1 Park tickets
MKs 17 Million visitors 3+ million were 1 Day 1 Park tickets

Now I have been making an argument now for a while that complimentary admissions that Disney gives out to employees and to the Hospitality Industry artificially inflate the visitor count.

Here are a rough estimation:
WDW has 51,000 Employees who on average receive 16 Days of Free tickets for 3 guests
51,000 x 16 x 3 = 2,448,000 admissions (if they were all used)

Disney also gives people who work in hotels, tickets, booking, transportation complimentary admission to 1 park per year with a guest. LINK I believe and PLEASE CORRECT me but last I heard there were about 35,000 of those handed out each year
35,000 x 4 x 2 = 280,000 admissions (if they were all used)

So we are looking at about 2.6 million visitors in the counts being from complimentary admissions.

But when I think about 1 Day 1 Park tickets and I think... if I paid 90.00 to get into DHS or DAK would I feel like I got my money's worth? And what would my perception of WDW be after that?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I feel that you definitely get your money's worth. Just add up what it costs you for a 3-D 'IMAX' experience:

Here in Nashville, it's $17.00 just to buy the ticket to sit in the dark for 2 hours for what you hope is a good movie.

Most hockey tickets go for more than $60.00 for another 2 hours of a hopefully good game. (maybe your children won't hear the 'fan' behind you cursing at every play.)

Concert tickets keep going through the roof for another 2 hours of 'entertainment'.

I think Disney gets a bad rap for $90 dollar tickets while Univeral and SeaWorld are in lock step right with them.

All three theme parks offer your monies worth IMO. (haven't heard much about LegoLand)