Belowthesurface
Well-Known Member
Exactly.
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Spirited News & Observations II -- NGE/Baxter
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
Exactly.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Simple, because when they break out FP+ they have to have some alternative locations to send them too, when the main attractions get hit with demand. Maelstrom, is another that had a FP for a while. I have been going to Epcot for 30 years and have never seen more then a 5 minute line there. But, for a while at least, it had a FP.
BlueSkyDriveBy
Well-Known Member
You wanna ponder something? Ponder this: the Carnival Corporation pays virtually no corporate taxes, even though the vast majority of its operations are based here in the United States.
Over $11 billion in profits in the last five years -- that's billion with a b -- in profits, not revenue -- and the total combined rate on Federal, state, local, and foreign tax was a measly 1.1 percent. That's right. Just a little bit more than one whole stinking percentage point on over $11 billion in profits.
Without government services like the Coast Guard and Customs, as well as infrastructure such as roads and bridges to the ports where the ships dock, this cruise line wouldn't even be able to operate. But that's OK. Uncle Sam is very grateful for their business and the high quality cruise experiences the citizens helped to make happen through their generous tax dollars, not Carnival's. (More of this story on Think Progress.)
But back to the original concern.
I'm in the camp that Carnival needs to be raked over the coals big time for this incident. With the kind of insane profitability that the corporation has been enjoying for the past five years, this accident should not have happened. No excuse whatsoever to allow the ship to slip into a state of marginal decline to where a catastrophe like this would even occur.
It's obvious that this company has been pinching pennies in regular preventative maintenance and inspections to achieve that monstrous return on investment. This was avoidable had the leadership not been so obsessed with growing the bottom line at any cost. Their passengers deserved far better than this. Proper, regular, and thorough inspections would have caught these problems long before escalating into a complete meltdown out at sea.
I hope the government throws the book at them, and they lose plenty of inevitable lawsuits.
flynnibus
Premium Member
And if we read the real story on the matter - http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/02/business/economy/02leonhardt.html?_r=3& - we find the problem isn't with Carnival, but our tax code period. So maybe point those torches back at DC..
Really? You know the incident was caused by some decline? Are accidents limited only to old stuff that has been ignored? You might want to check with Boeing about those 787s.. those brand new planes that can experience problems too.
Obvious based on what?
Again based on what? You know the cause before everyone else?
Your post pretty much validates my point. Everyone ready to loop the noose over the branch before they have any idea even wth happened.
Anger is not how any sane entity legislates. Something the mob should consider.. less they be on the receiving end some day.
disney fan 13
Well-Known Member
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
OK, I'll ask! Why is it obvious? Because something broke or because you have first hand knowledge of the condition of the ship. Did you know ahead of time that it was a fire waiting to happen? Or are you assuming that since it did, it must be because of lack of proper maintenance because how else could it have happened? And if you knew ahead of time that this was likely to happen why didn't you blow the whistle on them and possibly prevent a disaster at sea? Somehow you equate high profits with bad maintenance because otherwise that whole rant was totally irrelevant. I'm not sure that profit isn't possible without cutting corners as you do.You wanna ponder something? Ponder this: the Carnival Corporation pays virtually no corporate taxes, even though the vast majority of its operations are based here in the United States.
Over $11 billion in profits in the last five years -- that's billion with a b -- in profits, not revenue -- and the total combined rate on Federal, state, local, and foreign tax was a measly 1.1 percent. That's right. Just a little bit more than one whole stinking percentage point on over $11 billion in profits.
Without government services like the Coast Guard and Customs, as well as infrastructure such as roads and bridges to the ports where the ships dock, this cruise line wouldn't even be able to operate. But that's OK. Uncle Sam is very grateful for their business and the high quality cruise experiences the citizens helped to make happen through their generous tax dollars, not Carnival's. (More of this story on Think Progress.)
But back to the original concern.
I'm in the camp that Carnival needs to be raked over the coals big time for this incident. With the kind of insane profitability that the corporation has been enjoying for the past five years, this accident should not have happened. No excuse whatsoever to allow the ship to slip into a state of marginal decline to where a catastrophe like this would even occur.
It's obvious that this company has been pinching pennies in regular preventative maintenance and inspections to achieve that monstrous return on investment. This was avoidable had the leadership not been so obsessed with growing the bottom line at any cost. Their passengers deserved far better than this. Proper, regular, and thorough inspections would have caught these problems long before escalating into a complete meltdown out at sea.
I hope the government throws the book at them, and they lose plenty of inevitable lawsuits.
One of the biggest problems of our society today is the constant 'making excuse for the man' ... in this case the man is Big Business.
The profit motive is a great thing, but there need to be checks and balances or corruption and taking advantage of the individual runs rampant.
It sickens me when people who can talk forever feel it's their purpose in life to defend corporations at the expense of their fellow man. It sorta makes you wonder two things: 1.) are they simply ignorant and believe what TV talking heads tell them (CNBC worships at the altar of Wall Street with Fox and CNN close behind); and 2.) do they have another agenda, a personal one behind putting their opinions online ad nauseum.
Knowing Micky Arison, I'm sure he wishes that the crowds on cruise forums were as kind as it looks like this disaster on the heels of two in 2012 on Costa have turned the tide on the industry can do no wrong.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...ster_n_2690277.html?utm_hp_ref=world&ir=World
The profit motive is a great thing, but there need to be checks and balances or corruption and taking advantage of the individual runs rampant.
It sickens me when people who can talk forever feel it's their purpose in life to defend corporations at the expense of their fellow man. It sorta makes you wonder two things: 1.) are they simply ignorant and believe what TV talking heads tell them (CNBC worships at the altar of Wall Street with Fox and CNN close behind); and 2.) do they have another agenda, a personal one behind putting their opinions online ad nauseum.
Knowing Micky Arison, I'm sure he wishes that the crowds on cruise forums were as kind as it looks like this disaster on the heels of two in 2012 on Costa have turned the tide on the industry can do no wrong.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...ster_n_2690277.html?utm_hp_ref=world&ir=World
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
No jumping on baseless hyperbole is not making an excuse. It's just refusing to cry "Wolf!" until there is actual evidence that a wolf is present.
Please, cry me a river. There was a disaster and near tragedy on an industry that is for the most-part regulation-free and not subject to court judgments that stand. ... You wanna give them the benefit of the doubt? Go right ahead. I'll do just fine standing with the victims of an industry with laughable oversight.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
The official company answer: everyone has their personal favorite rides (must do rides). For 95% of people tea cups is not in the top 3. For those other 5% they can now reserve a spot on their favorite ride in advance and be guaranteed not to have to wait in line. It was really hard for me to type that with a straight face
. The real answer IMHO, which has been referenced around here by many, is they are creating a larger inventory of FP+ reservations so when the popular rides run out you still get something. There is no reason to have FP for this ride so that's the only logical answer.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Everything is not absolutely you're way or the wrong way. There are shades of grey, different means and even the possibility to look at a situation from multiple angles. Waiting to be informed does not mean a side has been chosen.You're grabbing at bits of this and that to try and find grounds to go off on those who do not just agree with whatever you say. You do it repeatedly, even if a person ultimately agrees with your end and not your means. Without going into some character-doubting "hypothetical" rant or bringing up other issues, can you definitely say the fire was preventable? That there was a plausible, better means of handling the situation?
And ultimately that holds very little water -- it's the McD's coffee verdict (and, BTW, they WERE at fault as the coffee was served at too hot a temp, which always gets overlooked).
People should be responsible, but so should corporations. If some idiot gets drunk on his balcony and winds up falling overboard and dying, then the cruise line owes him nothing.
But if a cruise line has a fire at sea because they have limited inspections and not enough redundancies and have an incident like this then it NEEDS to hurt them in a serious way ... not a dime off next quarter's earnings, but a REAL sum of money that harms their BRAND and makes safety the top priority.
We always like to make examples of people, yet we never do of corporations (see BP et al).
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
How is that all relevant or a good example? There was no coffee contract. If anything it just shows that even regulation and inspection are not totally preventative.
I am just about to place you on my ignore list, which I've never done to anyone. I may agree with you much of the time, but I feel you are extremely disingenuous on datamining and NGE and while it isn't my job to tell people to read between the lines, that's exactly what needs to be done when dealing with someone who always wants to defend a corporation.
The police and local authorities are protecting me from my idiot neighbor (not that I have one, thankfully). See, in the USA, individuals have to follow rules and regulations and laws. Corporations basically make up what they will and won't do unless the big, bad, evil government (I could take people's angst so much easier if they were protesting in the streets against the Patriot Act, the TSA or the Wall Street bailout) FORCES them to do so.
The fact you bring up civil court verdicts is laughable. An individual going up against a corporate entitity has virtually no chance at any semblance of justice. But you'd blame them ... you sound like the type that believes Wall Street didn't cause the economic collapse with its Ponzi like structure and selling of derivatives and credit default swaps and other BS 'products', but that people buying $600,000 homes when they could only afford $200,000 homes did.
No, I have. You just chose to ignore it because it doesn't fit your pro-business bias. ... I said that ALL cruise ships that make port in the USA should have to be regulated by this country and follow standards that are set out by maritime safety experts that aren't part of the cruise lobby. ... I'm sorry, but I just don't trust officials in the Bahamas as much as our own.
I'm glad you are so quick to brush aside civil claims as largely stupid. I guess people never get damaged due to the negligance and avarice of others and corporations and should just 'butch up and deal with it' ... I'm sure that's exactly what you'd do if you were in their shoes. It shows so clearly in your personality here.
For Wall Street and Big Business it absolutely would!
On the subject of NGE and MM+ ... here's some comments from someone in ops on the test.
<<Test at AKL crashed and burned. They weren't able to use the MagicBands to access the club level via the elevator. Had to print separate Key to the World cards. Merchandise is also having a hard time with gift card entitlements. ATS is holding up well though, only slowing down when there's over 100+ active entitlements.
Main Entrance, especially MK, has big logistical problems with it too. Since all ticket entitlements will no longer be printed on the back and will be combined on one/multiple RFID devices there will be Guests who enter the MK at 4pm for Not So Scary and it will eat their normal park day. EMH identification once rooms are on the same card will also be a challenge - I don't expect it to last.
There's a whole separate team working on Guests who have yearlong entitlements. Toll Booth CMs won't be able to distinguish Guests who have free parking requiring them to tap each card that comes in.
The good:
The demographics required for each RFID device will make it easier to replace them. Guests can have multiple live RFID devices, since they act as shells to reach the entitlements, so expect some fanboys to have every MagicBand/ticket linked to their account. Theoretically you could only link one RFID device to each entitlement (admission/FP, room, etc.) but they probably will require Guests to spend good deal a time with Concierge/Guest Relations to make that happen if they plan to not disable it. They also do not demagnetized. Waterproof, but the bands do not float.>>
<<Test at AKL crashed and burned. They weren't able to use the MagicBands to access the club level via the elevator. Had to print separate Key to the World cards. Merchandise is also having a hard time with gift card entitlements. ATS is holding up well though, only slowing down when there's over 100+ active entitlements.
Main Entrance, especially MK, has big logistical problems with it too. Since all ticket entitlements will no longer be printed on the back and will be combined on one/multiple RFID devices there will be Guests who enter the MK at 4pm for Not So Scary and it will eat their normal park day. EMH identification once rooms are on the same card will also be a challenge - I don't expect it to last.
There's a whole separate team working on Guests who have yearlong entitlements. Toll Booth CMs won't be able to distinguish Guests who have free parking requiring them to tap each card that comes in.
The good:
The demographics required for each RFID device will make it easier to replace them. Guests can have multiple live RFID devices, since they act as shells to reach the entitlements, so expect some fanboys to have every MagicBand/ticket linked to their account. Theoretically you could only link one RFID device to each entitlement (admission/FP, room, etc.) but they probably will require Guests to spend good deal a time with Concierge/Guest Relations to make that happen if they plan to not disable it. They also do not demagnetized. Waterproof, but the bands do not float.>>
Belowthesurface said: ↑
Random thought...
I observed the Mad Tea Party queue today and it never went above 10/15 minutes.
Can anyone please present the logic that this ride needs a Fastpass? Honestly, SOMEONE convince me why this is a good idea.
Which reminds me... please document the Mad Tea Party now before it is over complicated with a brand new queue, touch points and merge point. Say goodbye to that simple, small and EFFICIENT footprint.
Once again, SOMEONE convince me why this is a good idea.
Sorry, I'll take a stab and tell you I can't convince you. I'm not a liar or a corporate shill and, therefore, there is no way I can find for why FP should exist on many of the attractions it already is on, let alone messing with something that has worked just fine the way it is since 1971.
It's stupidity and it will make almost every attraction at every park a hassle and create the very lines it aims to eliminate (well, that and the new revenue stream).
But I have a question for you: do you enjoyed baking?
Random thought...
I observed the Mad Tea Party queue today and it never went above 10/15 minutes.
Can anyone please present the logic that this ride needs a Fastpass? Honestly, SOMEONE convince me why this is a good idea.
Which reminds me... please document the Mad Tea Party now before it is over complicated with a brand new queue, touch points and merge point. Say goodbye to that simple, small and EFFICIENT footprint.
Once again, SOMEONE convince me why this is a good idea.
Sorry, I'll take a stab and tell you I can't convince you. I'm not a liar or a corporate shill and, therefore, there is no way I can find for why FP should exist on many of the attractions it already is on, let alone messing with something that has worked just fine the way it is since 1971.
It's stupidity and it will make almost every attraction at every park a hassle and create the very lines it aims to eliminate (well, that and the new revenue stream).
But I have a question for you: do you enjoyed baking?
Why don't you try and see ... or just paste the comments here?
Dude...seriously...you need to relax.
This is just a conversation. We're just tossing ideas and possibilities around.
I'm not skewering anybody, nor an I trying to assign blame at this point. It's all "what if."
You are taking all of this WAY too seriously. I'm not.
Geez...take the fun out of everything...
Well, you can just let him have the last word with everything since he seems to be here 24/7. I don't know about you, but I can't keep up with the sheer volume of postage/corporate defending in one thread and he's in many.
Maybe he should just start a thread like 'Corps are People Too: They Cry Tears too!'' and be done with it.
And here is the post ... great reading for anyone who has no concerns about Disney safeguarding privacy:
<<Is anyone else having issues with the "My Experience" today or any other day?
I have booked a lot of trips over the years and used online but have never used "my experience." Today everytime I log in, it says "Welcome Suzanne" initially and then after trying to manually add a reservation, it keeps coming up as a Mrs. Carolyn **** (don't want to say the actual name for privacy.) I have tried this 5 separate times and even just clicked around without trying to add a reservation and by the 5-6th click, I am completely in someone else's "My experience" I can see EVERYTHING about them and I can see nothing about me.
Has that ever happened to someone?? Not only am I frustrated because I start 180 day ADR's tomorrow, but that makes me VERY nervous about my own private information. Is someone else seeing me???
I am on my home computer that was never used by anyone but me. We don't live near each other (I can see her address) and we do not have similar reservations. I have no idea what it keeps bumping me to her account.
This is sketchy Disney!!
>>