Spirited News & Observations II -- NGE/Baxter

[flynnibus]

Yes, I would venture to say that passengers on board the Triumph were at imminent risk. There is that little matter of an engine fire and the resultant loss of power along with that minor inconvenience of listing in the water and having parts of the ship backed up with sewage. To you that might have been just a little thing that they should have passed over but the fact is having unprocessed sewage standing in parts of a ship with over 4000 passengers and crew aboard does constitute an imminent risk

To which the company responded to and addressed to the best of the possibilities within the circumstances. The company didn't ignore them. The idea they should be sued because of an 'accident' is what I oppose so strongly. Ok, the company didn't respond according to reasonable thinking.. then you could go after negligence. But the idea that there is liability because bad things happened is just so wrong IMO.

But by all accounts we have so far - they did the best they could within the constraints of the situation. Do you not get any credit for doing the best you can and actually preventing actual loss of life and injury?

What do you feel the company did incorrectly to warrent such hatred towards them? What would you expect them to do differently?

Regardless of what anyone signed before embarking on this cruise, I doubt any of them ever felt that they would have the misfortune of having a vaction that could be compared to the examples you cited - living in a third world country, service in the military in a war zone or living through the Great Depression. I bet everyone probably had their hopes and standards set just a wee bit higher than that.

When someone is in a disaster situation - you shouldn't be comparing it to paradise and complaining it's not paradise. Apparently no one knows how to pick themselves up and make the most of what they have anymore. Heaven forbid when the government isn't around to do everything for you.

 

[flynnibus]

The bolded part is all I'm talking about.

Then I'm still waiting to hear what you think the company did to directly cause the situation and why you believe they are liable for it.

All this pointing fingers at what the company - yet no one has said what the company did wrong or how it could have been different in the same situation.

It's amazing how this all ties back to Disney... people are calling for blood before they have any actual thing to stand on. It's the same bloody philosophy... assume the worst until someone proves you otherwise. Damn.. and people think I'm a pessimist..

 

[Lee]

Damn.. and people think I'm a pessimist..

You? Pessimist? Not even a little, from what I've seen.

As for what the company did wrong...we'll see. Maybe nothing.
But if it turns out that there was some sort of negligence that caused the situation, then I would consider them at fault and open to damages.

It's almost like you're saying that Disney wasn't at fault when that cleat tore off the Columbia and killed a guy, because hey...things happen.

If the power on the Triumph failed because a mechanic neglected to change a faulty part...

 

[tracyandalex]

In regards to the Triumph, the issues for me - was the engine maintained properly, was there a disaster plan in place for an event such as loss of electricity? ? If not then, yes Carnival is responsible. I agree that stuff happens and there is not always someone to blame, but what about the personal responsibility of making things right? Does Carnival feel responsible for the horrible conditions and the ruining of people's vacations. Admit you messed up and make things right with the folks that were wronged. What ever happened to doing the right thing?

Because we do not know the cause of the fire I cannot say who if anyone is to blame.

As it stands there is little regulation in the cruise industry and I don't see anything wrong with their being some standards, especially in regard to safety and disaster plans.

Comparing the Triumph disaster to natural disasters is not accurate.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It's almost like you're saying that Disney wasn't at fault when that cleat tore off the Columbia and killed a guy, because hey...things happen.

The difference is that we know the cause of that situation. At the present time, that is not known in regards to the fire. If it comes out that negligence or other misconduct was a contributing factor, then is the time to respond as such, not beforehand. But there is no way to create a completely safe system. Fires happen and engines, by their very nature, tend to include combustible material. There is no completely fireproof system and while we can make advances, there probably never will be such a system.

I agree that stuff happens and there is not always someone to blame, but what about the personal responsibility of making things right? Does Carnival feel responsible for the horrible conditions and the ruining of people's vacations. Admit you messed up and make things right with the folks that were wronged. What ever happened to doing the right thing?

How is Carnival not admitting that there was a problem? They're not refusing refunds. They're not just dumping people in Alabama. Though they should probably reconsider their current television advertisements.

 

[Kuhio]

How is Carnival not admitting that there was a problem? ... They're not just dumping people in Alabama.

Carnival Cruise Lines would appreciate it if you didn't use their name and the word "dumping" in the same paragraph, please.

Though they should probably reconsider their current television advertisements.

Like this one?

 

[crispy]

One rumor that I heard regarding the Carnival debacle is that there had been some issues that came up during inspection, but it was glossed over and Carnival chose to sail anyway. I have no idea of the truth of that rumor, but if it's true, I think the passengers deserve much more than they are getting and Carnival needs to feel the financial pinch of their bad decision. If they indeed chose to put lives in danger because they didn't want to lose money, then they deserve to be punished. If it turns out to be an unforeseen disaster, then I think the compensation that is being offered is reasonable.

I am of two minds on this subject - it sickens me how corporations put profits before people and how their interests influence the politics of our nations (on both sides of the aisle). I have also seen people sue at the drop of a hat because they want something for nothing. I have an uncle who has received a large number of settlements because he fakes injuries and then sues. There is blame on a lot of sides. Legislation may make things better, but it won't make certain people honest and it won't keep corporations from exploiting every loophole they can find.

How does Disney figure into this? Once again, I have two minds on the subject. When I look at WDW, I see a lot of things wrong. It's no longer about making the guest happy, but about squeezing every cent they can from them. It's no longer about being the best, but about being just good enough to keep people lining up at the gates. It's no longer about quaility, but about quantity.

That being said, the Disney consumers play a role in this, too. I started a thread a few months ago about entitled guests. While many of the negative things we see at WDW ties directly into saving money and increasing profits, I would imagine just as many are reactions to entitled guests and how people try to take advantage of anything "magical" and try to manufacture memories. One example I mentioned was the paintbrushes on TSI. What was supposed to be a magical surprise turned into people racing to TSI so they could find it and get something free. As a reaction, Disney stopped having the paintbrushes available and a little magic was lost. Also, people want a premium product at a discount price and at some point, something has to give. I am just as guilty of this as anyone.

I don't know....I think that sometimes there is a lot of blame to go around, and the people who suffer are the honest consumers who just want to enjoy a vacation.

 

[tink1]

I don't know if I can post a link to this or not. There is a thread on the Dis where someone is having a privacy issue with My Disney Experience. The OP logged into her account and tried to add her reservation, but now she is is seeing someone's personal information. The OP says she can see EVERYTHING about this person including the home address.

 

[bubbles1812]

I'm crushed...

yeah, place your bets on the legitimacy of that one..

It wasnt meant to crush. It's just exactly how you come off in all your posts. Sometimes you have good information, sometimes you don't. You argue that they are fact based but the facts you present arent always great. Though you seem to think they always are. I sometimes even agree with your opinions but most of the time it just seems like you are trying to prove you know more about everything better than anyone else

 

[MickeyPeace]

I blame Kathy Lee.

 

[Lee]

I don't know if I can post a link to this or not. There is a thread on the Dis where someone is having a privacy issue with My Disney Experience. The OP logged into her account and tried to add her reservation, but now she is is seeing someone's personal information. The OP says she can see EVERYTHING about this person including the home address.

Oooohhhhhh......interesting.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

Still waiting for someone to answer this...

Well, theoretically, putting Disney's FASTPASS® on every single attraction would make the system fairest for everyone. Other than that, there's not too many people on this thread excited about interactive queues and ride reservations 60 days out and the like.

 

[flynnibus]

You? Pessimist? Not even a little, from what I've seen.

As for what the company did wrong...we'll see. Maybe nothing.
But if it turns out that there was some sort of negligence that caused the situation, then I would consider them at fault and open to damages.

So like I said.. just like the MM+ situation... damning before we even know the basics.

It's almost like you're saying that Disney wasn't at fault when that cleat tore off the Columbia and killed a guy, because hey...things happen.

Not at all - two important differences in the Columbia accident:
1) we know what happened because the investigation of the situation and history behind it is already complete
2) we know from the results of that independent investigation that Disney did make choices that lead to the failure and they operated outside of the design spec AND their own operating procedures

The Columbia accident was due to several failures, some that were mistakes on Disney employee parts (the operation), and others that can be seen as negligent in their choices that had a direct link to the actual failure.

Can you say any of the above about the Carnival Triumph right now? If not - why on earth would you draw such a parallel?

If the power on the Triumph failed because a mechanic neglected to change a faulty part...

*IF* - but hey, let's skewer the company in the mean time and we'll let them repair their image afterwards when the news cycle is done with them and all the hype is gone. *IF* we're wrong.. hey, no one will care by then and we'll focus all our energy on the next hype topic anyways. A perfect formula for sensationalism without any accountability.

With all this talk about how people should pay and be responsible.. maybe we should turn our attention to people that damage reputation and value through assumptions and publishing before validating things? Maybe those people should pay some attention to the hurt their words can cause when they leap ahead simply because that's what they feel instead of what they know. Ponder that one..

 

[flynnibus]

I don't know....I think that sometimes there is a lot of blame to go around, and the people who suffer are the honest consumers who just want to enjoy a vacation.

Yup.. we all suffer when the few take a foot when given an inch. It ties back into so many Disney stories... and people come up with the lamest defenses like 'well no one never told me I COULDN'T' - selfish and intentional disregard for common sense. Result.. we all suffer.

 

[BlueSkyDriveBy]

I don't know if I can post a link to this or not. There is a thread on the Dis where someone is having a privacy issue with My Disney Experience. The OP logged into her account and tried to add her reservation, but now she is is seeing someone's personal information. The OP says she can see EVERYTHING about this person including the home address.

 

[flynnibus]

Fires happen and engines, by their very nature, tend to include combustible material. There is no completely fireproof system and while we can make advances, there probably never will be such a system.

Too bad the tree huggers killed the one type of fire suppression system that could help in these types of situations. Halon. But the environmentalists killed it and now we have no direct suitable replacement for combating fires in confined spaces with sensitive electrical gear.

 

[alissafalco]

I don't know if I can post a link to this or not. There is a thread on the Dis where someone is having a privacy issue with My Disney Experience. The OP logged into her account and tried to add her reservation, but now she is is seeing someone's personal information. The OP says she can see EVERYTHING about this person including the home address.

Omg! That's messed up.

 

[Lee]

So like I said.. just like the MM+ situation... damning before we even know the basics.


Not at all - two important differences in the Columbia accident:
1) we know what happened because the investigation of the situation and history behind it is already complete
2) we know from the results of that independent investigation that Disney did make choices that lead to the failure and they operated outside of the design spec AND their own operating procedures

The Columbia accident was due to several failures, some that were mistakes on Disney employee parts (the operation), and others that can be seen as negligent in their choices that had a direct link to the actual failure.

Can you say any of the above about the Carnival Triumph right now? If not - why on earth would you draw such a parallel?

*IF* - but hey, let's skewer the company in the mean time and we'll let them repair their image afterwards when the news cycle is done with them and all the hype is gone. *IF* we're wrong.. hey, no one will care by then and we'll focus all our energy on the next hype topic anyways. A perfect formula for sensationalism without any accountability.

Dude...seriously...you need to relax.
This is just a conversation. We're just tossing ideas and possibilities around.
I'm not skewering anybody, nor an I trying to assign blame at this point. It's all "what if."

You are taking all of this WAY too seriously. I'm not.

Geez...take the fun out of everything...

 

[flynnibus]

Dude...seriously...you need to relax.
This is just a conversation. We're just tossing ideas and possibilities around.
I'm not skewering anybody, nor an I trying to assign blame at this point. It's all "what if."

Your first post on the thread drift wasn't nearly as neutral..

Great post.

If I had been a passenger, I would be furious that I was trapped on a mostly dead ship (no redundancies?) for the better part of five days, when Carnival could have has the ship docked in Mexico at least two days earlier.

But, hey...it would have been far less convenient and more expensive for Carnival. What's a couple more days spent in heat and filth when it makes it easier on Carnival, right?

Now I remember why I sail DCL and RCCL...

Sorry if I dragged your responses down by association to the level of wdw1974's rhetoric on the matter.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Like this one?

I'm hesitant to ask this- Is it just me or does that woman seem to be taking a twisted and troubling delight in sniffing her baby's soiled diaper? She seems to take an unusually long time inhaling it it and her voice afterwards sounds like the fumes are either making her high or she's turned on by them...

Either way I'm feeling pretty effing disgusted after watching that and feel the urge to shower... I can see a similarity between the quality of their cruises and their TV commercials, classy.