That's an interesting point, and one I don't necessarily disagree with. It's also interesting that there are two distinctly different narratives going on here. One is that Disney is going too much towards value added options. The other is that Disney is "Wal-Marting" the resort up too much.
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Spirited News & Observations II -- NGE/Baxter
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
That's an interesting point, and one I don't necessarily disagree with. It's also interesting that there are two distinctly different narratives going on here. One is that Disney is going too much towards value added options. The other is that Disney is "Wal-Marting" the resort up too much.
michmousefan
Well-Known Member
Agreed. And significantly better than IM2.
GiveMeTheMusic
Well-Known Member
I think the bizarre perception of Walt as some all-loving charitable clergyman is a bad case of hindsight romanticism. The pay-for-play model of Disneyland up until 1983 favored those with more money - they could ride more rides, more often.
History has painted Walt as some idealistic money blowing dreamer and Roy as the only party with any fiscal sense. Not true at all. Walt was an astonishingly shrewd businessman - what set him apart from Roy and other "sharp pencil boys" was a complete lack of fear. He would take huge risks that almost always paid off.
Make no mistake, Walt wanted to make money just as bad as anyone else. Disneyland was never free and never set up as some egalitarian wonderland.
Now - does that mean Disney should further separate the haves and have nots? I don't think so, but premium experiences are nothing new. Over at another board several members are kvetching over Mariah Carey's vow renewal at Disneyland. One poster bemoaned that the Cannons were able to stay in the Dream Suite that night. I laughed as I read it - does anyone truly believe that some things don't have a price? I guarantee you if you had enough money and/or clout, you too could stay in the Disneyland Dream Suite or Cinderella Castle Suite.
VIP and premium experiences are a necessity. In a slow news week, Disneyland got scads of free publicity because of the Cannons' ceremony. A small price to pay for having an after-hours ceremony and letting them use the Dream Suite.
I'll be curious to see how to scale tips as MM+ rolls out. As long as the standard practices we receive as park guests now don't become premium-only, it should be fine.
History has painted Walt as some idealistic money blowing dreamer and Roy as the only party with any fiscal sense. Not true at all. Walt was an astonishingly shrewd businessman - what set him apart from Roy and other "sharp pencil boys" was a complete lack of fear. He would take huge risks that almost always paid off.
Make no mistake, Walt wanted to make money just as bad as anyone else. Disneyland was never free and never set up as some egalitarian wonderland.
Now - does that mean Disney should further separate the haves and have nots? I don't think so, but premium experiences are nothing new. Over at another board several members are kvetching over Mariah Carey's vow renewal at Disneyland. One poster bemoaned that the Cannons were able to stay in the Dream Suite that night. I laughed as I read it - does anyone truly believe that some things don't have a price? I guarantee you if you had enough money and/or clout, you too could stay in the Disneyland Dream Suite or Cinderella Castle Suite.
VIP and premium experiences are a necessity. In a slow news week, Disneyland got scads of free publicity because of the Cannons' ceremony. A small price to pay for having an after-hours ceremony and letting them use the Dream Suite.
I'll be curious to see how to scale tips as MM+ rolls out. As long as the standard practices we receive as park guests now don't become premium-only, it should be fine.
Yes, opened after his death but created while he was alive.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
You left out the little smile face, but I'm assuming you are joking. If so, ignore the paragraph below.
If not...Walt and Roy borrowing money to start a business isn't remotely close to the same thing as a family going into credit card debt to pay for a vacation or borrowing money against the equity in their house to do it. Spending the next 30 years paying off this years vacation is financially insane. I may be old school, but I come from the mentality of saving money for something I want and then buying it once I have the money. Before anyone asks, I do have a mortgage but borrowing to buy a house (which I live in and will hopefully go up in value and I can eventually sell) isn't the same as borrowing for a vacation (which is gone once its over). Walt and Roy were probably considered crazy by many to invest the kind of money they did in an amusement park, but that was a business decision. People take big risks and succeed or fail all of the time in business. Just think about what would have happened if they decided to just borrow some money and go to a beach resort instead of investing it in their business.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
And I agree when it comes to staying at a Disney resort. If I pay $50.00 per night offsite then I do not expect to be enveloped in the luxury that should be part of a $600.00 per night stay in a Disney Resort. However, when I enter the parks, I paid for admission, separately, just like they did, same rate, pretty much, and everything. In the parks I expect to have the same opportunities as anyone else. To be honest, I don't mind at all if they get EMH or even a preset number of Fasspasses for the the exorbitant amount of money they spend on accommodations. But, I do expect to at least have an opportunity to get Fastpasses, or whatever else is available in the parks and not be excluded from them. More time in the parks should more then make up for us peons using a few Fastpasses during the day.
We still are not sure exactly what is going to happen or how offsite people will be treated. All we have is conjecture. If what is being predicted comes true then the spirit of the parks is lost. It's one thing to charge for a book of tickets because everyone has the chance to buy them, not just those that stay in overpriced hotels. Those books were a lot cheaper then those hotel rates even in today's money. Yes, Walt was also a money man. He needed the money to pay for his "projects". But, the original idea was a whole lot more fair then what is being bantered about now.
Cody5242
Well-Known Member
I'm not really a fan of the first two Iron Man movies but I liked the third one a lot but its definitely not better than The Avengers
the.dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
Anyone here looking forward to WDAS/Marvel's Big Hero 6 which is rumored to be the first feature to use the Paperman tech?
Yes, Disneyland was not created as an egalitarian paradise. In fact, Walt specifically decided to charge admission (in addition to charging for the rides) to keep the riffraff out.
But it was created to be fair, which is not at all the same thing as created to be equal. Sure, if you were rich you could buy more tickets to go on more or better rides, but you still had to get in the back of the lines for those rides just like everyone else. It's not clear that this will still be true in the future.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I can't tell you how the system will work for sure, but I do think some of the speculation is probably off base. Nothing official has been stated that resort guests will be the only ones eligible for FP+ reservations. All public comments suggest it will be available to all guests. It has been speculated that they would offer a tiered service where resort guests may get more passes based on which resort they are staying. Thats possible, but I don't see them offering nothing to off site guests. It's bad business and here's why. A large portion of current guests are not staying on property. I don't have a number, but for argument's sake lets say its at least 50%. They would be foolish to "punish" that large a group of guests in order to try to entice them to stay on property. I can see offering bonus FP+ reservations to resort guests (especially if that replaces EMHs), but there has to be a base level of service offered to all guests.
I think the suggestion that a character would ignore a child that isn't staying at a deluxe resort is far fetched. Nothing like this happens now. You don't need fancy wrist bands to offer deluxe guests extra benefits. They could give you VIP meet and greet vouchers when you check in or offer ADRs at 210 days instead of 180 days or make a tiered fast pass system that would offer VIP lines or even just hand out extra fast passes to resort guests during their stay. None of that happens now and it would all be pretty simple to implement if Disney really wanted to "reward" deluxe guests.
It doesn't seem likely to me that they would suddenly change the strategy and start this type of nonsense just because of Nextgen. Then again, maybe I'm just being too optimistic and I will be completely wrong. It happens all the time
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Figments Friend
Well-Known Member
Yep, but so many do it...whip out that old credit/debit card and just charge everything. That is the magic of 'plastic' these days...live like a king and not concern yourself with paying the piper down the road.
So many people live above their real means to impress...who..?
Could never understand the 'charge everything' mentality.
Makes more sense to charge a little at a time, and pay it off immediately.
Disney does not care where these people are getting the money from..they just want it.
As long as there are people out there willing to pay whatever Disney is pricing it's product, that is what the price will be...regardless of how outrageously high it may seem to some.
It is always about a matter of choice really...and a potential Guest can choose to say 'no thanks'. Not enough potentials are however...thus why we keep seeing these price increases on a yearly basis. The magic of credit cards comes into play here.
It will be interesting to see what the cap off point with be for the public. When Park admission is well over $130 a day, will people still pay it..?
CDavid
Well-Known Member
This may be the best explanation I've seen yet for how things should be. Want to buy more ride tickets (or even FP's), face time with Mickey, or something else - that's perfectly fine. But you are still in the same queue or same dining room with everyone else, and nobody is made to feel like a second class guest just because they aren't spending as much.
It's all about choices, too. Essentially if you are staying on-property, entering the parks, and eating in WDW restaurants you are already spending enough money that you can pretty much do any activity or buy any premium package Disney may offer. Maybe the uber-rich buy premium everything while the rest of us decide which few specific item(s) we want to splurge on, but my point is (for but one example) any All-Star guest can indeed stay at the Grand Floridian. It might well mean a two-night stay instead of a week in the value resort, but if that's what you really want, you can do it.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I agree with this and IMHO Disney always went out of their way to make every guest feel welcome. Guests from GF, All Stars and off property all have access to the same ADR system, FP system and all waited in the same lines. Sure the deluxe resorts had more amenities, better transportation, nicer rooms and better restaurants on site, but once you left the resort you were an equal with everyone else. I really hope that doesn't change.
Ironically, a lot of people sing the praises of Universal as doing no wrong, but they have had the line skip thing for resort guests and those who are willing to shell out the cash for years. I'm not a fan of it. It works OK for Uni since they don't have nearly as many rooms, but as they add more I think it will become an issue. This is one of the few areas where Disney should not be looking to Universal as a model to follow.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
Iron Man 3's already raked in $680 million worldwide allegedly.
I'm sure Disney will also love to crow about how they currently have the two best preforming domestic titles of this year so far.
I'm sure Disney will also love to crow about how they currently have the two best preforming domestic titles of this year so far.
SirOinksALot
Active Member
Thank you.
But then again, it would probably be news to most people here that Comcast lost money on its theme park business in Q1. In the decade before Potter, Universal was run by incompetent clowns. Problem is, a lot of those clowns are still there and are emboldened by getting one thing right. The smartest thing Disney could do is hold prices steady longer than usual and force Universal to make the move because they need the pricing relief much more than Disney right now.
Cosmic Commando
Well-Known Member
That's pretty sick. It already has the highest (unadjusted) worldwide gross of any Iron Man movie.Iron Man 3's already raked in $680 million worldwide allegedly.
I'm sure Disney will also love to crow about how they currently have the two best preforming domestic titles of this year so far.
Avengers may have helped.
http://boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=ironmanfranchise.htm
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
Should be interesting to see how much of a post-Avengers boost Thor and Captain America get, especially since Cap didn't really make that much money worldwide:
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=captainamerica.htm
That foreign total's worse than Prince of Persia and John Carter
, but I guess it's logically tough to sell Captain America outside of the US.
ThemeParks4Life
Well-Known Member
WHOA!!! I'm seeing it tomorrow night since the theater's been crowded all weekend.Iron Man 3's already raked in $680 million worldwide allegedly.
I'm sure Disney will also love to crow about how they currently have the two best preforming domestic titles of this year so far.
Cosmic Commando
Well-Known Member
All of the non-IM movies made less than $200M domestically... it will be very interesting to keep an eye on things. Maybe Spidey will want in on the action.Should be interesting to see how much of a post-Avengers boost Thor and Captain America get, especially since Cap didn't really make that much money worldwide:
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=captainamerica.htm
That foreign total's worse than Prince of Persia and John Carter