Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
Quentin Tarantino's next movie needs to be about the old timers/talented creatives/passionate execs taking back Disney. "Mickey Unchained" if you will.
It's this

meets this


NOTE: I AM NOT ADVOCATING THE USE OF VIOLENCE TO SOLVE PROBLEMS. JUST SATIRE. :)
 

alissafalco

Well-Known Member
You mean like how a decade of neglect and constantly lowering quality and standards have changed the expectations of GUESTS while in the parks?

Spirit, I know you've said things are going to get worse before they get better. I'm really discouraged and I do not see anything getting better anytime soon. When will things start to get better? When someone gets injured or killed by a falling rock or tree branch? When someone gets trampled to death in a crowd? When will this big Spirited change come?
 

MarkTwain

Well-Known Member
@WDW1974, does Disney have a strategy for the possibility of NextGen failing upon implementation? I'm talking guests pitching fits at the front entrance or refusing to use it (or failing to figure it out as many do with FastPass), press grabbing hold of the privacy concerns and making national news out of it, terrible reviews on TripAdvisor/other travel sites, cast/in-park management complaints, etc. I know of many cast members at multiple levels that view this project with great skepticism, with some even expecting it to downright fail, and I just wonder if Disney is prepared for the possibility of losing all of their investment in this project for nothing. Would they possibly be willing to back away completely or are they prepared for a long haul of forcing this on an unwilling public?
 

alphac2005

Well-Known Member
Wow, was that an early defensive PR move by Disney? Don't get me started on the bit about building new attractions not cutting it anymore.

The line from the industry observer in the UK made me really laugh. So, essentially they can't get into a war of building attractions, the thing that brings customers, rather offer them "MAGICAL" wristbands.

What I did find to be interesting out of The Times article and a few parts that the PR machine from the Mouse I'm sure isn't thrilled about are the two main takeaways from the piece: 1) This is an intrusive system that has privacy concerns and a creepy Orwellian feel (Not debating that here, just stating the general tone) 2) The system was devised for one and only one reason, raising revenue. NextGen+ is not really about the guest, rather increasing revenue per guest at Walt Disney World.

What I found to be interesting is that Staggs was quite clear about the true reason, profit. Of course, he's going to state that to show investors what a staggering sum for implementation of this technology is actually for and to give them a clear message that the return on investment will be quite positive for the company. With that being said, it makes the sales pitch of this being done to make a trip more enjoyable and "easier" for the guest more laughable and insulting to your intelligence. The little nugget about collecting the bands and special edition bands is something, too. Don't worry about the actual product and all the deficiencies at the resort, rather appeal to the inner hoarder and selling merchandise.
 

RunnerEd

Well-Known Member
The line from the industry observer in the UK made me really laugh. So, essentially they can't get into a war of building attractions, the thing that brings customers, rather offer them "MAGICAL" wristbands.

What I did find to be interesting out of The Times article and a few parts that the PR machine from the Mouse I'm sure isn't thrilled about are the two main takeaways from the piece: 1) This is an intrusive system that has privacy concerns and a creepy Orwellian feel (Not debating that here, just stating the general tone) 2) The system was devised for one and only one reason, raising revenue. NextGen+ is not really about the guest, rather increasing revenue per guest at Walt Disney World.

What I found to be interesting is that Staggs was quite clear about the true reason, profit. Of course, he's going to state that to show investors what a staggering sum for implementation of this technology is actually for and to give them a clear message that the return on investment will be quite positive for the company. With that being said, it makes the sales pitch of this being done to make a trip more enjoyable and "easier" for the guest more laughable and insulting to your intelligence. The little nugget about collecting the bands and special edition bands is something, too. Don't worry about the actual product and all the deficiencies at the resort, rather appeal to the inner hoarder and selling merchandise.

That's the part that got me excited! Forget the permanent disco Yeti and the tarps/nets in attractions, etc. Have a collectible little bracelet FOR FREE!!!!! :rolleyes:
 

Nemo14

Well-Known Member
"Disney expects MagicBands to turn into a big business in and of themselves; the company plans to introduce collectible sets of MagicBand accessories and charms."

paranoid.gif
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
The line from the industry observer in the UK made me really laugh. So, essentially they can't get into a war of building attractions, the thing that brings customers, rather offer them "MAGICAL" wristbands.

This is what I've been saying all along and people aren't grasping...

NextGen is an attempt to side step the tit for tat attraction race. Its an attempt at differentiating the park experience in a way that your competition can't easily replicate. It's not that Disney won't build more attractions in the future - but it's a way of getting out of a simplistic race no one wins.
 

rioriz

Well-Known Member
I have stayed out of this debate for the most part but now that it is coming out fully I have a better opinion.

Overall I vehemently am against the lack of upkeep and attractions in all 4 WDW parks...but I am warming up to the bracelet idea. I have been to the Great Wolf waterpasrks that have been offering this for years and it is so convienent to not have to carry around money and keys all day. Also those paper tickets were so annoying to keep track of. While I wont say this will totally keep me from Universal, the convienence factor will make my day in WDW a little easier.
 

orky8

Well-Known Member
This is what I've been saying all along and people aren't grasping...

NextGen is an attempt to side step the tit for tat attraction race. Its an attempt at differentiating the park experience in a way that your competition can't easily replicate. It's not that Disney won't build more attractions in the future - but it's a way of getting out of a simplistic race no one wins.

We grasp it. It's just a dumb argument. I'm not attracted to WDW because now they have a special holding pen for me to watch Wishes if I book it six months in advance -- I'm attracted to WDW because they have things like Wishes. All this MyMagic+ stuff won't count for jack if you don't have the attractions and experiences people want to book six months in advance -- that is the issue.

Look, if MyMagic+ was 20% of the investment in WDW and just a part of the "Disney Decade," then that would be one thing. But so far, its not. It needs to go hand-in-hand with new, amazing attractions. But having a smart phone app that allows me to change my reservation for space mountain is not going to be a competitive edge -- especially seeing as before all the junk, I didn't have or need a reservation for the rides. Differentiating yourself by falling way, way behind in the attractions race but offering a new plan-you-every-minute experience is not a good way to differentiate yourself. And this is what you continually fail to grasp -- not all differentiation is good.
 

MattM

Well-Known Member
I guess I'm missing the outrage over being tracked at Disney. Disney has every right to do whatever they want (within the law), because they are a private entity. Being tracked in and of itself is not a privacy violation nor violation of any current law. Being tracked by government is (theoretically, anyway). If you go to Disney, you are agreeing to their terms of entrance. There can be no expectation on your part to visit a company (or theme park) owned by someone else on your terms.

@ParentsOf4 the problem with your US v Jones opinion is that government applied a tracking device to the defendants vehicle, not a private business that he had patronized. Nowhere in that opinion does it address private entities, because they are treated separately from government. Not saying that I personally agree with that rationale.

If you (people in general) don't like the new policy, the way to avoid it is to not go.

ETA: Im sure my point has been discussed before now, just haven't gone back and read all pages.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
There seems to be zero regard for posting company assets on the interwebz nowadays-they may as well give every guest a hub password
This type of thing is very prevalent. It points back to anyone idiot can have a blog or a podcast and any idiot can post on a message board. There is no PR training required. There are two sides to this though. The lack of PR training means that things like internal documents and blueprints get put on the internet now because people don't know how to protect a source. The other side of it is that when people at Disney (or any other company) are interviewed by these "reporters" there is no real journalism going on. It's a conversation between a primary source and a fan, and a fan isn't skilled enough to ask the probing questions. That same fan is looking to get hits to their website more than exhibit any level of journalistic integrity.

I myself was guilty of this very recently. My site ran a story on Avatar (and as far as I know it was the first story) with information on the attractions. Fastforward several hours and my story is buried because someone else posts blueprints online. This taught me that being first is actually far less important now, it's really a matter of who is willing to burn sources and potentially cost people their jobs.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
I think I got something. This is a little old, and I don't know what became of it, but here's a start (emphasis is mine):
From 9/25/12:
http://www.nationaljournal.com/blog...blast-proposed-change-to-child-privacy-law-25

Bottom line seems to be if there are/were no changes to COPPA and their FP+ website/app gets classified as "directed at children", their data mining dreams go completely out the window. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the reason there's a "mydisneyexperience.com" instead of integrating it into disney.com or disneyworld.com. Now to find out what happened since 9/25/12.
Can they put in a Camel exhibit into Africa and have it sponsored by Camel Cigarettes?
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Here's how you would exploit it.

Test Track isn't just about Test Track. There are retail cars on display in the pavilion to demonstrate Chevy's current products and technologies. By that inclusion of the real products and services in the attraction, I can turn around and say sending you marketing material about new cars for sale would be jointly marketed subjects.

Similar to where say.. Nestle is a sponsor at a food location and provides the food and you buy their branded products. The Nestle products are then part of the experience you participated in - and now are within scope of joint marketed.

Many companies are very deceitful in this area - and having an angle is enough vs having a moral obligation to be more clear. There are way too many loopholes and far too difficult to track info leaks back. So much so, no one bothers to follow up. Instead of stupid laws like 'Do Not Call' with special interest exceptions you could drive a truck through.. a meaningful law would be to require a company to disclose exactly who shared your info to start with. Then, you could go after the leak, rather than the people who use the info.. of which you have no leverage over to start with because you aren't a consumer of theirs.
In practice this is done all over the place right now. Someone mentioned it elsewhere in the thread that targetted coupons appear at super markets and drug stores based on spending practices. If this means an increase in sponsorship in the parks, I certainly see the value for Disney. As has been suggested above I wouldn't be surprised if after a trip on Test Track I start seeing an increase in chevy ads hit my e-mail box. They may come from Chevy directly or perhaps as a partnership with Disney. Buy a 2013 Chevy Malibu and get a 3 night stay at a value resort with park tickets.

Surprisingly this aspect of Next Gen doesn't bother me as much as the uber scheduling component, and to me that seems to be the easiest part to change.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
We grasp it. It's just a dumb argument. I'm not attracted to WDW because now they have a special holding pen for me to watch Wishes if I book it six months in advance -- I'm attracted to WDW because they have things like Wishes. All this MyMagic+ stuff won't count for jack if you don't have the attractions and experiences people want to book six months in advance -- that is the issue.

It's only dumb if you can't look past your next trip or only look at parks like a customer. Infrastructure/platform decisions like this are about changing the fundamentals that apply to everything going forward, not about enticing you the next trip. It's like the decision to buy thousands of extra acres as a buffer. That's not an investment to draw you now.. that's an investment whose benefits are reaped for decades.

'The new attraction!!' only is a draw as long as it's new. And that's the "Six Flags Problem". If you rely on the 'see what's new!!' strategy.. you are forced into keep adding something new. Attractions at Disney scale are designed to last a decade or more.. and cost so much they must be spread out. You can't just keep adding a new major attraction each year as your draw (The Six Flags model). Attempts to do so bury you in debt, and raise your operational costs to unbearable levels. You can't just keep adding attractions. Worse, get sucked into trying to match your competition's moves, and you get the tit for tat escalation that brings everyone down eventually because it's unsustainable. You can't rely on BUYING growth each year. It's fools gold.

Add on top of that.. when Disney invests millions to design an innovative ride.. and then the ride's value is hurt by other parks just cloning the idea. This further eats at Disney's advantage.

You must look at ways to DIFFERENTIATE yourself and create a gap that your competition can't simply copy or keep up with you by just adding something new. You can't rely simply on adding another $100 million dollar attraction every time as a way to get someone's attention. The park needs to be able to draw people on the merits of what it has as well.

NextGen is not like 'adding a new attraction for 2013..' - NextGen is an attempt to fundamentally change the theme park experience for EVERYTHING for the decade+ to come. It's an investment in the platform the park experience is built upon.

Look, if MyMagic+ was 20% of the investment in WDW and just a part of the "Disney Decade," then that would be one thing. But so far, its not. It needs to go hand-in-hand with new, amazing attractions

Those new attractions will come.. just as they always have. But NextGen is something different - it's something that brings value to not just one thing, but all things. It's like getting an extra 10% on everything.. vs just one new thing. Stop thinking 'now' and start thinking long term and recognize how this isn't just one thing, but something that applies across the board.

Differentiating yourself by falling way, way behind in the attractions race but offering a new plan-you-every-minute experience is not a good way to differentiate yourself. And this is what you continually fail to grasp -- not all differentiation is good.

You are looking at it with such a narrow window of time - that's why it doesn't resonate with you. Think of all the money Disney spent implementing Fastpass. A decade later, do you really wish you would have gotten that one attraction instead... or do you appreciate the dozens of attractions that you can access easier with Fastpass, every visit, every time, for many years since?
 

alphac2005

Well-Known Member
In practice this is done all over the place right now. Someone mentioned it elsewhere in the thread that targetted coupons appear at super markets and drug stores based on spending practices. If this means an increase in sponsorship in the parks, I certainly see the value for Disney. As has been suggested above I wouldn't be surprised if after a trip on Test Track I start seeing an increase in chevy ads hit my e-mail box. They may come from Chevy directly or perhaps as a partnership with Disney. Buy a 2013 Chevy Malibu and get a 3 night stay at a value resort with park tickets.

Surprisingly this aspect of Next Gen doesn't bother me as much as the uber scheduling component, and to me that seems to be the easiest part to change.

If you're a modern consumer, you've essentially opted in data mining any and everywhere. I don't mind using my store loyalty card, for example at the grocery store, as we get targeted booklets of coupons that either discount or offer free packages of the products that we buy. I choose to sign up and I know the ramifications. I understand that in the alternate conspiracy universe, the prevailing thinking is that there can be a complete profile of you as a person, if somehow, someway, every single data point from each and every store, and every company was linked together from countless separate databases. Now, I can see legally that if that was done in a criminal justice matter, it can be disconcerting, but lets get real about things. In reality in the United States, these giant data mining operations actually exist in the name of "safety and terrorism" where all of our email, data, and phone communications are being stored. So, Disney knowing that I like their chicken fingers and Figment merchandise, that doesn't bother me too much.

Data mining is about companies maximizing profit, they could care less about "you" as you are just another cog in the money making machine.

Just as you've posted, it's not so much the data mining because Disney has been doing that for sometime in many other ways, rather the endless scheduling and turning a vacation into, well, a chore. It's already become a mess with the dining reservations. Sorry, I don't want to schedule meals, rides, and everything else months in advance. When everything becomes calculated and/or scheduled, you lose so much enjoyment.

A dining reservation or two, that's OK, but everything planned out, UGH. Not to mention that it's so darn hard to get a reservation where you want it as it stands. Essentially pre-booking your rides. Really? People are overscheduled and absurd enough as it is, now we'll have the masses running around to make their ride times. (In much greater numbers than the current FastPass.)

The bracelet? Not for me personally, but at least you can just use a plastic card instead. I don't want to wear a bracelet and I don't care to collect yet some other junk from Disney. It's novel, but I just might want to walk in, go on an attraction, see the audio animatronics actually work, and just maybe, while it's cool that a character can so called talk to a kid by name, well, isn't that part of the problem in our culture today? Catering everything to children, creating these little narcissistic monsters, making them think they're the best and greatest, it goes on and on. Check out a BBC magazine piece this past weekend about this subject, it's quite interesting. In a nutshell, our kids (Note: American kids) are scoring worse on testing than in the 60's, but they think they're better than ever and can do anything. Ugh, I see these kids and their parents, and as a sane parent, it's nauseating.

Legal challenges to this? Sometimes I wish I finished the track to law school :), but just as previously noted, nearly every consumer or privacy act in this country can be loopholed around. Legal would not have proceeded if it wasn't abundantly clear that this would not violate any current standing statute.
 

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