Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

[WDWFanDave]

I'm new sure I understand the "forcing" part. Couldn't you put a bracelet into your pocket (where it can be wrapped up in foil) until you need it to purchase your lunch or open your hotel door?

Yes, or leave it in a locker.

Unless, of course, they return to the days of needing a 'ticket' for each ride...hence all the Mickey posts that are now appearing around the parks. Maybe they aren't just for FastPass+ after all...or there are more of them to come?

 

[DisneyFan 2000]

I think I'm missing something very basic about all this: So Disney is targeting for those once-in-a-lifetime visitors, because they're the biggest buck (supposedly). If so, how much do they really expect to learn about said visitor in a week on vacation, in a completely new environment, where they're probably not really showing their actual shopping habits but first-time enthusiasm? And more to the point what can they really do with all the information if said family really are a once in a lifetime deal? This doesn't make any sense...

 

[danlb_2000]

I think I'm missing something very basic about all this: So Disney is targeting for those once-in-a-lifetime visitors, because they're the biggest buck (supposedly). If so, how much do they really expect to learn about said visitor in a week on vacation, in a completely new environment, where they're probably not really showing their actual shopping habits but first-time enthusiasm and more to the point what can they really do with all the information if said family really are a once in a lifetime deal? This doesn't make any sense...

But even that information would be useful, especially if they aggregate it across a group of first time visitors. They may be able to learn ways of turning a single time visitor into a multiple time visitor.

 

[DisneyFan 2000]

Wasn't the whole point though to personalize your trip? To cater to you and you alone? They can't really accomplish that with only one visit and Disney doesn't seem to care too much about the repeat-customer business...

 

[Cosmic Commando]

For instance, wouldn't it be great if it were used in conjunction with the bus system. I absolutely refused to use the buses on our most recent trip because they waste so much of my vacation time. But, used in a guest experience improving way...they'd actually know at a glance just how many folks from a particular resort are in a particular park as closing approaches, and they could then allocate/supply the appropriate assets to get everyone back to the resort and get the parks emptied.

I clicked "like" before I even finished reading "bus system". If you could check-in at the bus stop or even if they had readers at the exit turnstiles, you could get a pretty good idea where people are headed based on that: "50 people staying at Pop left Epcot in the last 10 minutes; we think that at this time of day on a Tuesday in February when MSEP is running, 38 will head back to Pop, 10 will take the monorail to MK and 2 will take a bus to a different resort."

 

[MUTZIE77]

People need to put the bracelet aside because what matters is the RFID and readers/trackers that are all over property.

This is a very important nugget in this thread. There could be thousands of RFID reader all over the property and we would never know where, besides the mickey poles at ride entrances. They could be along walkways, in shops, in restaurants, and in restrooms disguised at ordinary objects. All we have to do is have the bracelet in your pocket and walk past them and Disney could map out your every move throughout the day.

 

[GoofGoof]

Wasn't the whole point though to personalize your trip? To cater to you and you alone? They can't really accomplish that with only one visit and Disney doesn't seem to care too much about the repeat-customer business...

They do care about repeat business. The data collected on you very likely will be used to get you to spend more while you are still there or to get you to return. For instance, if they see you are traveling with children but have not booked a character meal and you are in the MK with no ADR they may shoot you an e-mail suggesting Chef Mickeys for dinner tonight. If Chef Mickeys has a large number of open tables maybe that offer comes as a buy one get one free or 20% off. After you leave they will know that you went to Wishes twice (so you like fireworks), but missed Illuminations while you were there. They also know that you ate 3 meals in World Showcase. You may get an offer to return next year and stay at the Beach Club (which is near World Showcase) and the offer will include a VIP spot to watch Illuminations. The offer will be at some discount but will only be good for next year. These are just a few of the endless examples that could come up. If you think about repeat guests, they all had to have a first visit some time.

I am still not clear on what Information or how much will be sold to other retailers. It was vaguely hinted at in the original post and a lot of people ran with it. I think we need more details before overreacting. This could become another Starbucks thread really quickly with people stating opinions or possibilities as facts.

 

[Sneezy62]

Yes, or leave it in a locker.

Unless, of course, they return to the days of needing a 'ticket' for each ride...hence all the Mickey posts that are now appearing around the parks. Maybe they aren't just for FastPass+ after all...or there are more of them to come?

Virtual queueing of the standby line? Why have fastpass + at all then? Tap the mickey head and your smartphone or kiosk then gives you a time to ride if you don't tap the mickey again ten minutes before your ride time as you get in line then your ride is cancelled and the next person in line moves up a notch. It would change the theme park experience and also be a nightmare for the cast to explain.

 

[GoofGoof]

What I suggested in my previous posts is that what Disney is trying to accomplish with NextGen is much more intrusive, more far-reaching than Jones. Consider the questions raised by Jones, where the government installed tracking devices on automobiles to track suspected criminals. With NextGen, a private company is attempting to require (no "opt out" option) customers to carry with them at all times tracking devices without cause. Again, what Disney is trying to do raises highly disturbing questions, questions I consider much more profound than Jones.

I think the big difference is that Disney is planning on using this in their parks on private property. In the case in question the suspect was tracked on public streets. I think maybe if someone in law enforcement tried to use data from the wristbands as evidence to convict someone of a crime then this case could potentially be used to overturn the ruling.

I am in the camp with the people who don't care if they track me. It makes no difference to me. I also have no problems taking my shoes off at the airport. There are cameras and plain clothes security everywhere that are already watching you. Keep in mind that with 50K to 90K people in each park any day they won't have an individual analyst tracking your personal every step other than maybe a rare security issue where they need to track a suspect. The data will most likely be used in aggregate actions to track behavior by specific guest type or for specific direct advertising.

 

[kittybubbles]

I think I'm missing something very basic about all this: So Disney is targeting for those once-in-a-lifetime visitors, because they're the biggest buck (supposedly). If so, how much do they really expect to learn about said visitor in a week on vacation, in a completely new environment, where they're probably not really showing their actual shopping habits but first-time enthusiasm? And more to the point what can they really do with all the information if said family really are a once in a lifetime deal? This doesn't make any sense...

For repeat guest, they would be able to better 'grade' their guest giving WDW a better way of deciding who to offer pin codes/discounts to. Guest services could have their computers decide how much value you are (to the bottom line) and let the CM know what level of compensation your complaint is worth to them. Resorts could base 'magical upgrades' based on the scores each of their guest have who are checking in that day....

Shame no one tried to boast guest spending by having more unique merchandise in all the gift shops before spending all this capital...but their systems did (still do) need to be more unified to work much better together than they do today so I think the invistructure spending may have been put to good use.

 

[GoofGoof]

Shame no one tried to boast guest spending by having more unique merchandise in all the gift shops before spending all this capital...but their systems did (still do) need to be more unified to work much better together than they do today so I think the invistructure spending may have been put to good use.

I know I'm in the wrong place to be optimistic, but maybe that is exactly what all of this data mining will tell them about merchandise. People want unique merchandise, look at it more frequently and buy more of it. The end result could be more unique merchandise.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Virtual queueing of the standby line? Why have fastpass + at all then? Tap the mickey head and your smartphone or kiosk then gives you a time to ride if you don't tap the mickey again ten minutes before your ride time as you get in line then your ride is cancelled and the next person in line moves up a notch. It would change the theme park experience and also be a nightmare for the cast to explain.

Sounds nice until all pathways and shops are clogged with people who would otherwise be in ride queues.

I know I'm in the wrong place to be optimistic, but maybe that is exactly what all of this data mining will tell them about merchandise. People want unique merchandise, look at it more frequently and buy more of it. The end result could be more unique merchandise.

But you could get the same type of information without knowing who specifically is buying it by looking at total product sales for a particular item.

 

[ParentsOf4]

I think the big difference is that Disney is planning on using this in their parks on private property. In the case in question the suspect was tracked on public streets. I think maybe if someone in law enforcement tried to use data from the wristbands as evidence to convict someone of a crime then this case could potentially be used to overturn the ruling.

I am in the camp with the people who don't care if they track me. It makes no difference to me. I also have no problems taking my shoes off at the airport. There are cameras and plain clothes security everywhere that are already watching you. Keep in mind that with 50K to 90K people in each park any day they won't have an individual analyst tracking your personal every step other than maybe a rare security issue where they need to track a suspect. The data will most likely be used in aggregate actions to track behavior by specific guest type or for specific direct advertising.

Given the Supreme Court’s narrow 2012 ruling in United States v. Jones, there are certain to be future legal challenges that come before the courts. The 4th Amendment applies to the Federal government only. However, there still is debate regarding the lawfulness of tracking devices and state legislatures are being encouraged to pass statutes protecting citizens against the use of such devices by private entities.

Disney seems to believe in NextGen so much that they are willing to risk being on the cutting edge of this issue. Remember, NextGen will track you 24/7. It’s capable of tracking you in your hotel room and capable of tracking you when you leave Disney property. As reported, it’s an active transmitting system associated with you personally.

Meanwhile, the competition is not idle. Both Universal and SeaWorld are building major expansions, the traditional way to grow theme park business. Furthermore, it will be in Universal’s and SeaWorld’s best interest to play up NextGen’s most worrisome aspects, to raise questions, to scare the public.

Even if Disney wins the legal challenges, they also face public relations battles, accusations that Disney has become Big Brother. The fact that Disney is aware of these legal and PR aspects and still is willing to invest $1.5B in NextGen should cause the consumer tremendous concern. In business, the greater the risk, the greater the anticipated return on investment. Disney is taking a huge risk with NextGen. Just imagine the return they are expecting. That means money coming out of your pocket for a theme park that offers essentially the same attractions it offered 10 years ago. How exactly is Disney going to make the billions necessary to justify NextGen’s financial, legal, and perception costs?

I would have considerably less objection to NextGen if it was a passive system or if Disney offered an equivalent “opt out” option. According the information recently provided, Disney intends to do neither.

To repeat myself, I object to being tracked like a convicted sex offender released on parole. I strongly suspect others will object as well.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

After reading @Skyway 's thorough post, I appears that a lot of questions NextGen will answer are things that an exec who spends most of his/her time in the parks should already know. If anything, NextGen just provides a high granularity for data collection. Data which can be used to lure in sponsors, target high value guests, screw locals, etc.

 

[unkadug]

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

DHS I assume.

 

[GoofGoof]

The Walt Disney Company's Corporate Privacy Policy says this:
Sharing Your Information with Other Companies
We will not share your personal information outside The Walt Disney Family of Companies except in limited circumstances, including:

• When you allow us to share your personal information with another company, such as:
  • Electing to share your personal information with carefully selected companies so that they can send you offers and promotions about their products and services
  • Directing us to share your personal information with third-party sites or platforms, such as social networking sites
  Please note that once we share your personal information with another company, the information received by the other company becomes subject to the other company's privacy practices.
• When we cooperate with financial institutions to offer co-branded products or services to you, such as our co-branded Disney Rewards Visa Card; however, we will do so only if permitted by applicable law and, in these cases, the financial institutions are prohibited from using your personal information for purposes other than those related to the co-branded products or services
• When companies perform services on our behalf, like package delivery and customer service; however, these companies are prohibited from using your personal information for purposes other than those requested by us or required by law
• When we share personal information with third parties in connection with the sale of a business, to enforce our Terms of Use or rules, to ensure the safety and security of our guests and third parties, to protect our rights and property and the rights and property of our guests and third parties, to comply with legal process or in other cases if we believe in good faith that disclosure is required by law

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5. Your Controls and Choices
We provide you the ability to exercise certain controls and choices regarding our collection, use and sharing of your information. In accordance with local law, your controls and choices may include:

• You may correct, update and delete your registration account
• You may change your choices for subscriptions, newsletters and alerts
• You may choose whether to receive from us offers and promotions for our products and services, or products and services that we think may be of interest to you
• You may choose whether we share your personal informationwith other companies so they can send you offers and promotions about their products and services
• You may choose whether to receive targeted advertising from many ad networks, data exchanges, marketing analytics and other service providers here
• You may request access to the personal information we hold about you and that we amend or delete it and we request third parties with whom we have shared the information do the same

You may exercise your controls and choices, or request access to your personal information, by visiting Communication Choices, contacting Guest Services, or following instructions provided in communications sent to you. Please be aware that, if you do not allow us to collect personal information from you, we may not be able to deliver certain products and services to you, and some of our services may not be able to take account of your interests and preferences. If you have questions regarding the specific personal information about you that we process or retain, please contact Guest Services.

They would need to alter the policy to allow nextgen data to be sold to outside vendors. There is also a built in opt out that allows you to not receive info from vendors
Heres the full policy
http://corporate.disney.go.com/corporate/pp.html

 

[marni1971]

Whatever next? Wasting more money installing Glow Hat transmitters and infrastructure from the Train Station all the way to the castle stage? Surely they wouldn't waste money doing that when it could be so better spent elsewhere?

 

[GoofGoof]

Given the Supreme Court’s narrow 2012 ruling in United States v. Jones, there are certain to be future legal challenges that come before the courts. The 4th Amendment applies to the Federal government only. However, there still is debate regarding the lawfulness of tracking devices and state legislatures are being encouraged to pass statutes protecting citizens against the use of such devices by private entities.

Disney seems to believe in NextGen so much that they are willing to risk being on the cutting edge of this issue. Remember, NextGen will track you 24/7. It’s capable of tracking you in your hotel room and capable of tracking you when you leave Disney property. As reported, it’s an active transmitting system associated with you personally.

Meanwhile, the competition is not idle. Both Universal and SeaWorld are building major expansions, the traditional way to grow theme park business. Furthermore, it will be in Universal’s and SeaWorld’s best interest to play up NextGen’s most worrisome aspects, to raise questions, to scare the public.

Even if Disney wins the legal challenges, they also face public relations battles, accusations that Disney has become Big Brother. The fact that Disney is aware of these legal and PR aspects and still is willing to invest $1.5B in NextGen should cause the consumer tremendous concern. In business, the greater the risk, the greater the anticipated return on investment. Disney is taking a huge risk with NextGen. Just imagine the return they are expecting. That means money coming out of your pocket for a theme park that offers essentially the same attractions it offered 10 years ago. How exactly is Disney going to make the billions necessary to justify NextGen’s financial, legal, and perception costs?

I would have considerably less objection to NextGen if it was a passive system or if Disney offered an equivalent “opt out” option. According the information recently provided, Disney intends to do neither.

To repeat myself, I object to being tracked like a convicted sex offender released on parole. I strongly suspect others will object as well.

You are definitely entitled to an objection. Just a couple of points. Although its an active system it's not like they have a camera in your room following your every step. There will not be an "agent" assigned to following your every move virtually. Yes, they know when your group and the 29,999 other groups enter and leave their rooms but I doubt anyone is going to be actively monitoring you personally. My other hobby outside of WDW is gambling. I visit casinos as regularly as time (and my wife) will allow. They have been using technology to track customer's every move in the casinos for years. They have facial recognition software that captures images of everyone that walks in the door. It's all stored and shared amongst casinos. The primary use is for security, catching card counters, etc... But the point is I don't know anyone who objects to the systems being there or has tried to sue the casinos over them. If its private property I don't see a law being violated. I agree with the other poster who brought up Google. If you roll out the right PR campaign you can limit the impact of privacy advocates.

I don't disagree with any of your points about nextgen being a waste of money. Forget about adding anything new to WDW they could have used the $1.5B to refurb the existing parks. Imagine how far that money goes for Splash Mt, Imagination, Yeti, Wonders of Life, refresh of the rest of Fantasyland, new monorails, etc...

 

[JenniferS]

So out of all this wristband rubbish, do we officially know if fast pass regular is sticking around or is only fast pass + going to be available? We usually never stay on property and we use fast pass as much as we can when we go! Also, r they really limiting fast passes + to only 4 a day and that's it? Or do u think once the program is up and running it'll work a lot like the old version just on your phone instea of a paper ticket?

I have read every post to this point (yes, I know there are still 2 pages to go). Some posts I read word for word, twice! Some I just skimmed. That being said, I have a few questions/comments.
Comments first:
I have never actually used more than 4 Fastpasses in a single day. I let 3 sets expire this year (ToT, BTMR, Soarin'), so for sure, I would have to be more selective in the future.
While not crazy about being tracked 24/7, I am also not too paranoid. My initial reaction was simply that I would buy something that would block the RFID reader when I felt like it; but that's just because I'm contrary by nature.
Questions:
Here's my situation - middle aged Canadian woman who travels to WDW yearly with hubby, hubby and kids, SIL & nieces, or a combination thereof. What kind of targeted advertising is Disney going to send me? When, where and how, would I receive it? I own an iPhone 5 which I take off roaming while in the US, as my roaming charges are outrageous. So, Disney can't text me while on site, which I assume will be their preferred method of communication. As for email - with the roll out of free WiFi pretty much park wide, I do access my email often. Due to my settings, however, almost everything goes straight into my junk box. So, I'm not getting too many emails. Don't bother calling me on my cell - I only answer for work, hubby and kids (not in that order and not in the States, anyway).
So now, Disney knows where I stayed, and where I ate (most of which they already knew because of ADR's, the use of my KTTK card for CS meals) and all park purchases are also put on the KTTK card. The only thing I pay cash for the whole time are TS restaurant tips.
So, long story (question) short - what new info will Disney garner, that they don't already have?
PS - I don't use Disney transportation, we always rent a car. Who cares if Disney learns that I left the resort area a couple of times to go to Publix, Walgreen's or up to Sand Lake Rd to go to the Florida Mall? On the plus side, they might misinterpret a day off property at the Florida Mall or the beach as a day at Universal, and actually get scared into adding some new D and E attractions.