Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

[flynnibus]

They could sell it to any number of people.
Like a retailer for example. Disney could say, "Here is info on the Smith family. Mother, father and two kids, a boy of 6 and a girl of 9. They buy lots of DVDs, like fast food, and drink Sprite. The kids seem to enjoy Disney characters and toys. The father is a golfer who enjoys a beer or two after a round. The mother drinks coffee, and enjoys high-end dining. They rented a car while traveling, and stayed in a deluxe resort. They have two small dogs who enjoy canned dog food."
And it could go on and on. Providing information to help other companies target the Smith family.

This is the type of demographic data that has value - and what Disney could bundle and potentially sell (with permission). External companies aren't going to be interested in which paths you walk, how many rides you rode, or if you stood in the emporium vs World of Disney store. The location data everyone is so freaked out about isn't of value to people outside of Disney. The exportable demographics that are of value are largely the type of info they already collect.. the difference is Disney will be able to do that much easier and correlate with more sources. It builds a more interesting, complete picture.

As you say 'follow the money...' and that includes 'follow what has value'. The company isn't interested in things without value.. people should stop freaking out about things that have no value to them, the company, or 3rd parties.

 

[djlaosc]

This is my take on Next Gen....

Where it can helpful...
1. Bus Efficiency....allowing people to request a specific park bus when they get to a bus stop. Then Disney would know that X people are waiting for a Magic Kingdom bus at Aruba in CBR.
2. Ride Efficiency....Gauge wait times more accurately by tracking when people get in line and when they get on a ride.
3. Speeding up lines to purchase food and product, because you're swiping a RFID reader and not a Key To the World Card.
4. Being able to ride Toy Story Mania without having to wait an hour in line or be in the fastpass rush.
5. Wearing a bracelet, rather than having to carry a magnetic key card around.

1. I agree with, although they could do this now without NextGen by having a touchscreen at every bus stop, where you select where you want to go, and how many people want to go there, but for some reason, they haven't done this. The only thing NextGen could do would make it more reliable (eg./ you really want to get to DHS quickly, so you say that there are 100 people waiting at the bus stop to go there, so they send a bus straight there. With NextGen, they would be able to tell how many people were waiting at the bus stop. However, if they had somewhere for you to scan your ticket/KTTW card, they could stop this as well.

4. ...as long as you stay on site, and your internet does not go down 180 before you go, and as long as you are able to get a Fastpass+ for the attraction. It is extremely unlikely that everyone who wants a TSMM FP+ will be able to get one, especially for the time they want. I would rather be in the fastpass rush.

5. I would rather be able to carry a ticket in my pocket/wallet/lanyard instead of having to wear a bracelet.

 

[Jimmy Thick]

Things I'm Not Overly Concerned About...
1. Disney tracking my information. I rarely pay with cash and I know they're already tracking what I'm doing; what I buy, what fastpasses I get, and what hotel I'm in, etc.

I totally agree.

Its nothing more than what Facebook does already. Say you like something on Facebook, the ad's you see on Facebook will be geared towards your "likes". Facebook is selling all your information as you give it. Disney, no matter what some delusional, paranoid people think, is doing the same thing.

Its hiliarious people are calling for the media to investigate this, its been happening since the dawn of the internet.


Jimmy Thick- Hopefully squashing this little revolution.

 

[Goofyernmost]

That's if your business is selling a product to be consumed by others.

Disney's business is to attract people to come to them and spend money on Disney's product.

Why on earth would Disney invest hundreds of millions to build a technology that none of their competition has, would be difficult for the competition to replicate, and then turn around and sell that competitive edge?

That makes no sense. Disney is not in the business intelligence market. They aren't even in the IT business. They aren't even likely building most of this in-house but using large consulting firms like AA, BAH, etc. Why would Disney invest in building a competitive edge, then turn around and SELL it to others for simple cash? Disney is trying to build a product to differentiate themselves in a way that is hard to replicate. To put that edge out on the market for a simple price would defeat any long term value in Disney's investment.

It's entirely different to market the customer profile information collected (the output about potential customers) vs selling the tools and methods used to collect and correlate that data. I can't help but think people are getting the two confused. Selling the customer data collected about customer profiles, behaviors, etc makes sense. It's a healthy byproduct of Disney's own collection and usage of the data. But rest assured, no way Disney would sell anything that would be worthwhile to it's competition. Why invest billions to help your competition? Even TDO isn't that stupid.

You're right they aren't stupid. So you create a technology that not only will help you, but you patent it (the technology) and sell it to others. It doesn't really affect your own following and you are attempting to find a way to sell them more once you have them in your grasp. Other's having the technology will not adversely do any harm to you and you make bazillions selling it to others, completely offsetting your costs and making a tidy profit. They aren't using imagineers to create this, it is the financial and marketing end that is heavily involved with it. It's another division of the Disney Company, like ABC or whatever else they own that have nothing whatsoever to do with Disney parks. You don't sell them your information, that's secret, but you can sell them the means to have others get the same information tailored to their own needs.

 

[flynnibus]

Actually, that's the part that makes the most sense. Disney's NextGen is a technology suite that, if proven, could readily be sold to other companies. The hardware may not be proprietary, but the software and data analysis automation may very well be a lucrative package. The trick will be proving that it works and is scalable to various businesses' needs.

Why build something to make your product better and untouchable by the competition... and then turn around and sell that competitive edge?

That would be like UNI scoring Harry Potter... investing to make it a success.. and then licensing HP to other theme parks because they could make money doing so.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Some companies get patents to they can license them to other companies, some just get them to prevent other people from doing what they are doing. I don't know if Disney has a track record of licensing their patents or not.

I don't either but I would be completely surprised if they didn't.

 

[SirOinksALot]

Flynn is spot on, the whole thing reads like a fake "super secret" memo meant to suss out leaks. I mean, we know for a fact that most of this sentence is bunk:

No push, tap or swipe is required as readers now blanket Walt Disney World to extract every possible piece of information or data from the guest in their GPS-enabled device.

1) The bracelet doesn't have GPS. 2) The vast majority of people won't be on the bracelet, so even wifi won't help with location. 3) An RFID card kept on-body has a readable range of about 25-30 feet with an exposed antenna... has anyone seen a single one of these? If these readers are already blanketing property, surely someone would have seen a work permit or physical construction at the thousands of locations required. I realize the wifi is already active, but 2.4ghz is a different beast - installing the RFID readers alongside the wifi antennas would be worthless.

 

[flynnibus]

You're right they aren't stupid. So you create a technology that not only will help you, but you patent it (the technology) and sell it to others. It doesn't really affect your own following and you are attempting to find a way to sell them more once you have them in your grasp

You don't resell what makes you unique

 

[flynnibus]

Maybe GPS was misconstrued with signal triangulation. That it how cell location was pulled prior GPS capability. I can easily see tracking easily as what reader(s) most recently passed over.

Proximity is enough.. don't need specific location. If I know which sensor you are closest too, I know the map of the sensors, and I placed my sensors strategetically based on whats important to me.. and that's all I need.

But I think the comment again leads to question the credibility of the article.. if they can't even get the basics right.. how well sourced is it really?

 

[ParentsOf4]

You mean like watching you with cameras.. like a criminal that may commit a crime? Are you upset that Disney or casinos watch you all the time with cameras?

The fear of tracking in general is overhyped and way out of context. Tracking is about privacy - and privacy is about what you are keeping as your own. Your movement throughout the resort is worthy of keeping private why? How is it private today how? Who is going to exploit collecting that information? The location data is valuable only to Disney for its own purposes.

Amazing no one was crying foul when Disney required you to use your ticket (which has your personal info linked) to get a fastpass.. and hence Disney could track which attractions you'd visit, when, etc.

You may have missed something I wrote earlier, so I will quote myself:

We are not talking about (for example) a camera that is used to monitor crowds as a whole. We are talking about an active tracking device that Disney will require me to carry, tracking me individually.

I have little objection being monitored as part of a crowd. I have little objection to me actively engaging a system in order to perform a transaction. The Supreme Court has already ruled that, for example, when I make a transaction with a bank, records generated and held by the bank are the property of the bank and not subject to rights of privacy. (Note that the Right to Financial Privacy Act was passed as a result.) The ruling could be applied whenever I use a credit card, pay with cash, or get a FP.

I suggest you read this post:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...ions-and-opinions.857322/page-60#post-5265117

Hopefully it will explain my position further.

 

[GenerationX]

Lots of thoughts on how Disney would benefit from such data mining, both as it pertains to each individual guest and as part of a large mass of people moving around their property.

INDIVIDUAL:

... In most cases, that selling of info (and Disney's direct collection and ability to use it themselves) will lead to targeted advertising ...

GROUP:

... Such info could potentially help Disney save money or spend it more wisely by allocating resources (like staffing or maintenance) differently ...

SELLING THE TECHNOLOGY:

... I'm trying to predict who those customers would be ...

No question, the data could be used for the Individual and Group uses noted above. As @Skyway indicated, that's just the tip of the iceberg as to how the data could be used to improve the bottom line. As for Selling the Technology, I don't believe an organization would take a system that gives it a strategic advantage over its competitors and sell it. Lease the capability to partner firms? Maybe.

 

[danlb_2000]

Flynn is spot on, the whole thing reads like a fake "super secret" memo meant to suss out leaks. I mean, we know for a fact that most of this sentence is bunk:

No push, tap or swipe is required as readers now blanket Walt Disney World to extract every possible piece of information or data from the guest in their GPS-enabled device.

1) The bracelet doesn't have GPS. 2) The vast majority of people won't be on the bracelet, so even wifi won't help with location. 3) An RFID card kept on-body has a readable range of about 25-30 feet with an exposed antenna... has anyone seen a single one of these? If these readers are already blanketing property, surely someone would have seen a work permit or physical construction at the thousands of locations required. I realize the wifi is already active, but 2.4ghz is a different beast - installing the RFID readers alongside the wifi antennas would be worthless.

Permits a usually pretty vague on their exact purpose and there have been plenty recently that could possibly relate to next-gen installations. As for installing a reader this is something that could easily be done without guests ever knowing it was being done.

 

[ChrisFL]

Proximity is enough.. don't need specific location. If I know which sensor you are closest too, I know the map of the sensors, and I placed my sensors strategetically based on whats important to me.. and that's all I need.

But I think the comment again leads to question the credibility of the article.. if they can't even get the basics right.. how well sourced is it really?

So its not GPS Global Positioning System, its Triangular Positioning System or TPS.

Hey, I wonder if CM's will have to put a cover sheet on those reports.

 

[flynnibus]

Might even help them gain sponsorships in the parks, something they have been struggling since the 1990s with.

Now this is a great example of how the location services would be used to great value to Disney. Not just saying 'I fed you 100k visitors' but exactly the demographics of the people who actually came in the attraction. They could specifically monitor the effectiveness of targeted ad/marketing efforts. And if guests opt-in, Disney could hand over the lead-generation list directly. Or, potentially due to 'joint marketing' Disney may be able to share the leads without opt-in. For pavilions that have the sponsor's product positioned (like Test Track) its plain easy to argue 'joint marketing' and allow sharing without explicit opt-in. And anywhere the relationship is questionable, just add a tap-reader and you get instant lead generation.

'Tap here to get your exclusive pin!' = lead generation monster...

 

[Goofyernmost]

You don't resell what makes you unique

It's just a marketing device, like bar coding. So was bar coding when it first started but now you see it everywhere. It may be unique but it doesn't on it's own create a demand. It is a method not an entertainment. What makes Disney unique is the attitude and attractions, this is just a tool for management and nothing more. They may market it like it's more but it will not take the public long, for everyone, to know that they gained just about nothing from it.

NextGen is a management tool and as such is marketable. It isn't going to make Disney more popular and have people come running in just to use it. It actually looks like it has the possibility to do just the opposite by demanding to much planning and commitment.

 

[GoofGoof]

Now this is a great example of how the location services would be used to great value to Disney. Not just saying 'I fed you 100k visitors' but exactly the demographics of the people who actually came in the attraction. They could specifically monitor the effectiveness of targeted ad/marketing efforts. And if guests opt-in, Disney could hand over the lead-generation list directly. Or, potentially due to 'joint marketing' Disney may be able to share the leads without opt-in. For pavilions that have the sponsor's product positioned (like Test Track) its plain easy to argue 'joint marketing' and allow sharing without explicit opt-in. And anywhere the relationship is questionable, just add a tap-reader and you get instant lead generation.

'Tap here to get your exclusive pin!' = lead generation monster...

This is a key distinction in my opinion. According to the privacy policy they cannot just share personal data without your approval. They could share aggregate data but not personal data. If you opt in then they could share personal data too. If there is a sponsor for a particular pavilion is that relationship enough to be considered "joint marketed" or does it have to be more like a Disney credit card sold through a bank? If Disney could justify that GM is a joint marketed partner for test track maybe that would be a loop whole in the privacy policy, but that would be a stretch IMHO. I think you are right you would probably still have to opt in to have your info sent to GM.

 

[SirOinksALot]

Permits a usually pretty vague on their exact purpose and there have been plenty recently that could possibly relate to next-gen installations. As for installing a reader this is something that could easily be done without guests ever knowing it was being done.

But on a 30-foot range and the explicit, fearmongering statement of "24 hour surveillance" you're looking at hundreds with line-of-sight visibility. Surely someone would have seen at least one.

 

[marni1971]

Ops....the ones I know are torn between wanting to kill the project and knowing it just won't work in the real world.

 

[SirOinksALot]

Ops....the ones I know are torn between wanting to kill the project and knowing it just won't work in the real world.

That's like the difference between a tear and a cut

I edited it out to not sound overly disrespectful - needless to say they want it gone and will go to any lengths to do it.

 

[ParentsOf4]

But on a 30-foot range and the explicit, fearmongering statement of "24 hour surveillance" you're looking at hundreds with line-of-sight visibility. Surely someone would have seen at least one.

You mean seen a NextGen tracking system the same way people have seen those hundreds (thousands?) of surveillance cameras Disney already employs?

There's a reason this has a $1.5B price tag.