Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

[Todd H]

Lets use the University of Georgia's Sanford Stadium as an Example - 90,000 people on gameday. There's a multi-layer, giant cohesive plan to manage & protect that crowd as well as its entrance & exiting the area. Works pretty well, aside from having 90,000 drunk people.

Hey! I used to resemble that remark!

 

[IWant2GoNow]

Same here, that clip is absolutely hilarious and never fails to get a laugh from me. It was funny (if a little bit disturbing) even when the movie was new. Nowadays though the clip serves as such an incredibly potent bit of irony and I find myself amused by it for completely different and more unfortunate reasons (getting more hilarious AND painful to watch as time goes on and things worsen at WDW).

It certainly goes to show how Disney themselves used to look down upon other cheap theme parks that didn't put in acceptable maintenance and quality into their attractions. It was once a well known point of pride with Disney (something that was a good thing to be proud of). My how times have changed. The shoe is on the other foot now.

Much like the quote from "The Muppets" where the Asian tourists question if the rundown Muppet Studios is actually Universal Studios & the tour guide says "Yes it is". Can't believe they still make digs at UNI when they are currently on an uptrend while WDW continues to slide because of cost cuts everywhere because of terrible management because of a complete lack of respect for why they got to where they are in the first place.

 

[Darth Sidious]

Much like the quote from "The Muppets" where the Asian tourists question if the rundown Muppet Studios is actually Universal Studios & the tour guide says "Yes it is". Can't believe they still make digs at UNI when they are currently on an uptrend while WDW continues to slide because of cost cuts everywhere because of terrible management because of a complete lack of respect for why they got to where they are in the first place.

Arrogance and denial.

 

[WildcatDen]

Cindy turning tricks by the Big Top

Just Cindy. . .

 

[flynnibus]

I am anxious to hear your thoughts on the 'new' resort. You staying with Disney or off?

We are staying next to the convention center on a blind bidding price of $73. Due to the late planning of this.. there were no decent rates at the DLH which I would have liked to book for this special occasion. But not enough to blow 400-500/night on it.. when I can use that money for much better purposes... like the new vehicle I just bought her.

I have no experience with TouringPlans.com beyond the shots I've taken at them here. They appear to be a service for mostly diehard fans anyway, who I wonder why they would ever need a plan. ... But you should be tarred and feathered for giving Lou your support

For the price of a subway sub.. I figured it was worth it just to get their view of what the crowd levels would be for my days. And access to their Lines iPhone app which people swear is better than Disneys. What I find interesting about the app so far is they are willing to face the accuracy of their own data. In the app, right next to each other, they put the estimated wait vs reported wait. That's honesty most businesses will not face - so I give them credit for that.

I peeked at the touring plans they offered.. but they aren't resonating with me. The way its presented or just conflicting with my thoughts.. I dunno.. but they aren't making me want to study them closer.

For $7 (tho they didn't honor the discount they offered on Micechat..) I can manage a 'what the hell..' and try it. I don't look at it like feeding the monster because it's not a commitment or a vote of support. Who knows.. after 45days I can just ask for the money back too

 

[IWant2GoNow]

And they're not terribly convincing. The Haunted Mansion's new Hitchhiking Ghosts look like what they are - projections and CGI animation - the kind of stuff you see every day at the movies. The original Ghosts looked like they were really there sitting in the Doom Buggies with you (when you looked in the mirrors, of course). THAT part of the HM refurb is a total bust in my opinion.

I couldn't exactly pinpoint my dislike for the new ending of HM but this is a great summation. I find the new ending pretty cool, but the original was more of a "how did they do that" over the current.

 

[baymenxpac]

Except for one thing: DVCers haven't banded together and told Disney 'we ain't happy, we were snookered and giving us cheap APs so we don't go see Spidey or Shamu and free D23 memberships ain't gonna do it, you're going to have to spend billions in your parks and not on tracking technology'' ... when y'all DVCers get your act together, let me know.

couldn't agree more. i think there's an inherent layer of protectiveness of WDW and TDO in DVC members. they don't want to admit that their investment wouldn't rate very well right now (specifically if they bought in anywhere in the last decade and/or at BLT prices...WOOF!), so that leads to a: "well, we enjoy it. it's our place no matter what" attitude. that doesn't make sense to me. DVC locks you in for decades. demand that they don't skimp and essentially change the terms of the deal midway through.

Crowd control.... I've seen guests and friends nearly knocked over when Fantasmic! Opened in DHS. You know... Line up down Sunset and be ready to run down the gutter... After which the real push n shove starts. As well as the examples Dave gave above, remember the hub after Wishes and the MKs 40th? CMs unofficially officially abandoned it and any attempt at crowd control. It was a zoo. It was ugly. Guests on the lawns and flower beds. Pathways gridlocked. Liberty bridge just not moving in either direction. And the torch wavers retreated, seeing their managers hadn't planned for it and had no way of regaining control. Like a bad fire it was left to burn itself out.

Jump to Disneyland. Pre Fantasmic show #2. An army of torch wavers hold guests in Frontierland. Benches block short cuts. They divide walkways into one way areas. No silly tape on the floor. Slowly and surely they guide thousands of guests to the viewing area. Once there another army keeps walkways clear and moving. Like one CM every 20ft. Not one CM per walkway.

Yet by design the powers that be allow World Showcase to be blocked by carts, by new fencing that Intrudes into the Mexico promenade, by more and more Food and Wine shacks that also limit show viewing areas, by stroller parking against the lagoon railings.

Chalk and cheese.

quoted for truth.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Hey! I used to resemble that remark!

I used to have a private photo workroom on the field level

 

[ParentsOf4]

I strongly believe that behind closed doors in Burbank, the Powers That Be Mouse have quietly conceded to themselves, that they've run out of time to avoid the proverbial cliff with regard to WDW's continued death grip on the Orlando market.

I honestly believe they sorely misunderstood the "Potter Demographic". All that rhetoric about "Rising tide raises all boats" was 100% wrong.

Whether or not they've conceded is moot. The point is, they're not taking action to fix the issues, or at least not at an appropriate pace.

Business leaders don't concede anything. The people running businesses eat, sleep, and breathe this stuff. When they fail, it's not because they didn't try but because they outfoxed themselves or, if you will, convinced themselves that their idiotic strategies (in hindsight) were sure-fire winners. This is why when they fail it's usually in spectacular ways. They thought they were smarter than everyone else. The egos involved are huge. When they fail, rather than being smarter than everyone else, usually they were too clever for their own good.

The powers making the decisions affecting WDW, whether you believe they reside in Orlando or Burbank, are absolutely convinced they have a strategy to smack down Universal and put it back in its place. The questions are: What is this strategy? Will it work?

In the 2000s, WDW tried what they considered to be a more traditional approach, swapping out some old attractions for new ones. Think Mission: Space (2003), Soarin' (2005), Expedition Everest (2006), and Toy Story Mania (2008). All are popular attractions today. However, these were initiated during the Eisner regime, even if finished later. The fact that none of these appreciably boosted attendance coupled with Eisner's spectacular fall from grace means the current regime wants to distance itself from that line of thinking. Instead of following the old tried-and-true, something Universal is doing, they want to "revolutionize" the theme park business. You know, like the Ford Edsel and Sony Beta. What is their strategy? What will they do?

Enter NextGen.

Disney already is advertising NextGen as a way to customize your vacation. Baloney. NextGen's ultimate goal is to customize how much you pay for your vacation.

Everyone has a different price-point, a different amount they are willing to spend for a WDW vacation. Disney wants to use NextGen to find that point. If the most you're willing to spend is $5,785.37, Disney eventually will offer a vacation package that costs, surprise, $5,785.37. You want to spend $1,785.37? Disney will have something for you too. The person paying $5,785.37 will get a better theme park experience than the person paying $1,785.37. Better FP+, better viewing locations, better ADRs, better meet & greets. It's that simple. NextGen gives Disney absolute control over how everyone vacations at WDW.

You might say, "I have control." Sure, if you think standing in line for 120 minutes is "control" then more power to you. If you think "I'll be able to pick my FP+" is control then you've misunderstood what FP+ is. With FP+, you'll get whatever Disney decides to offer you. If you are offered TSM FP+ you'll think "This is great." If you are offered SGE FP+ you'll think "What do I need this for?" With NextGen, Disney controls what you get. Who will get most of the TSM FP+, the person paying $5,785.37 or the person paying $1,785.37?

Disney is not naive enough to think NextGen will succeed on its own. That's why they'll continue to employ some of their recent favorites such as price increases and DVC. They'll also spend the minimum amount possible to convince the public that WDW is "new". Think of the budget-downsized "New" Fantasyland, Avatarland, and (probably) Carsland. These will be the carrots dangled in front of the unsuspecting public to convince them to come back to WDW and experience NextGen which, as already outlined, will allow Disney to maximize how much each person pays.

Returning to the second question: Will it work?

Disney thinks so.

 

[ScoutN]

This!

@raven24, if the OLC ran WDW, I can pretty much guarantee that half of each park wouldn't open every day because show quality really is that bad. And no one seems to care ... again TDO, I am here and willing and just think how I'd likely have to stop posting (and we all know, I haven't posted the worst 75% of what I could yet too!)

Don't get me started on OLC. After the issues someone I know experienced last week I have no desire to go there. Yes, you will have a message inbound.

 

[Bolna]

Everyone has a different price-point, a different amount they are willing to spend for a WDW vacation. Disney wants to use NextGen to find that point. If the most you're willing to spend is $5,785.37, Disney eventually will offer a vacation package that costs, surprise, $5,785.37. You want to spend $1,785.37? Disney will have something for you too. The person paying $5,785.37 will get a better theme park experience than the person paying $1,785.37. Better FP+, better viewing locations, better ADRs, better meet & greets. It's that simple.

No need to mention that the whole post was great (there have been plenty of people recently mentioning how great your posts are... ) but this paragraph stood out to me as it reminds me of something that has been in place for a number of years now: The Magic Your Way tickets. Those came into existence for exactly the same reasons you mention here: You have now the ability to "customise" your ticket to include park hopping, water parks and no expiration, but it is going to cost you.

And the interesting thing really is that WDW1974 mentioned in his other thread about George Kalogridis that he was a key person in implementing Magic Your Way at WDW. How fitting that it looks like he is going to return for the implementation of that program's successor. Makes me less optimistic about his possible new role.

 

[Todd H]

I used to have a private photo workroom on the field level

Nice! My old college roommate was a campus police officer and he used to get me into places most other students never could. Man I miss those days.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Nice! My old college roommate was a campus police officer and he used to get me into places most other students never could. Man I miss those days.

I do and I don't. There's no money in Athens, everyone wants things for free, etc.

 

[Bolna]

Gotta ask: Where's the beef??? In the little cloned plasticated c-ticket with the queue that spanks the attraction and effects that aren't working consistently less than 2 months in? Is it in the glorified story time thing with Belle where --oops-- we're also getting reports that things aren't working right? Oh, I get it. Must be the restaurant that only the most dedicated of fanbois-n-gurlz even have a prayer of visiting because they are the ones who will book their reservations at 6:00 am 6 months out and/or stand in line for lunch starting at park opening. Meanwhile, the rest of the MK & WDW suffers the plague of indifference from its keepers who would love nothing more than to continue to bask in their self-made illusion of substance. Some folks see past it, I suppose.

It truly seems like the one thing that is considered the most important part of New Fantasyland is the restaurant - which I find extremely odd. I love good food and usually have many table service meals (preferably at the signature restaurants) while on vacation at WDW. But the restaurants to me are the icing on the cake - not the cake itself. That's the parks, the attractions! That's the reason why I travel across the Atlantic. A land that gives me a few possibly mediocre attractions (I haven't seen them yet, so still reserving judgement) and a restaurant does not excite me at all. Even though I do have a reservation at BoG for my next trip, being in Europe the time difference helps with booking a reservation at 6am EST.

 

[Bolna]

And if she dare actually attempt a second food and wine.... One is bad enough. They've trashed my park too much already.

I think that's where Flower and Garden festival is heading towards: They are introducing food booths for that in 2013, one would assume to test how well they are going to be accepted. I was so disappointed when I heard about this as I find the Food and Wine Festival a nice concept but it totally destroys the World Showcase with all the clutter it adds.

 

[71jason]

I think that's where Flower and Garden festival is heading towards: They are introducing food booths for that in 2013, one would assume to test how well they are going to be accepted. I was so disappointed when I heard about this as I find the Food and Wine Festival a nice concept but it totally destroys the World Showcase with all the clutter it adds.

I think you're right. That said, on a Saturday last October, I had to park in a lot I've never set foot in before (I think it's where the recovery tents for the Marathon normally are). I saw people lined up 50 deep on both sides of the Japan booth to buy sushi--Haines City, the most rednecky small town place I can think of near WDW has four sushi restaurants, plus the sushi counter at Publix--but guests were still lined up to buy it at grossly inflated prices. And those lines were small compared to the lines for $9 beers.

Honestly, other than the fear of destroying the novelty, I'm surprised EPCOT doesn't have only two seasons--Food & Wine 6 months out of the year, Candlelight Processional the other 6. That seems to be where the money is. (Somewhere, SMRT-1 and Dreamfinder weep.)

 

[71jason]

You really want to improve guest traffic? Restrict what comes in. You want to bring a rolling cooler to feed 16 people in the park? Hell no. You want to bring in a stroller the size of a Prius? Hell no. Segway? You're kidding. Giant tripod to put in the middle of main street? Pfft, not with this attendance. You want to bring in a turbocharged ECV ("....I feel so much shame, all I can do is try to make myself feel a little better by flying to Disnelyland on the weekend.....") and you better have a doctors note. Large strollers and ECVs are a problem. You want to bring an ECV in, no problem as long as you have your paperwork in line from your doctor.

You simply cannot have crowds of 20-30 thousand people in such a small area without effective, trained crowd control. Considering the "flat" MK attendance is 47,000/day (source=TEA), its going to get worse. Of course, nothing is going to change until someone gets badly hurt in a very public way.

Both these points x1000. I understand the ADA makes restricting ECVs difficult, but they held the line on Segways, could make reasonable restrictions (or lobby central FL congressmen to get them into the law). And there's no reason to not put heavy restrictions on what strollers can be brought into the park. If anything, could be used to drive up rental revenue.

(Oh and in defense of the stereotype above was the nice gentleman who wanted to start a fistfight in the line for Les Miserables earlier today. Society itself seems to be reinforcing that stereotype one on its own.)

Should've gone to the late show of "Django Unchained." I didn't even bother rolling up to DTD until after 11:30, just didn't want to be a part of the mess.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Should've gone to the late show of "Django Unchained." I didn't even bother rolling up to DTD until after 11:30, just didn't want to be a part of the mess.

I'm not back in Florida until tomorrow; this case of movie-rage was in Virginia.

 

[Rasvar]

You really want to improve guest traffic? Restrict what comes in. You want to bring a rolling cooler to feed 16 people in the park? Hell no. You want to bring in a stroller the size of a Prius? Hell no. Segway? You're kidding. Giant tripod to put in the middle of main street? Pfft, not with this attendance. You want to bring in a turbocharged ECV ("....I feel so much shame, all I can do is try to make myself feel a little better by flying to Disnelyland on the weekend.....") and you better have a doctors note. Large strollers and ECVs are a problem. You want to bring an ECV in, no problem as long as you have your paperwork in line from your doctor.

You simply cannot have crowds of 20-30 thousand people in such a small area without effective, trained crowd control. Considering the "flat" MK attendance is 47,000/day (source=TEA), its going to get worse. Of course, nothing is going to change until someone gets badly hurt in a very public way.

Truthfully, I have found that most of the people who have their own ECV are usually pretty good about them. These are the folks who are use to driving them around. It is the rental ones that I watch out for. I even categorize them. The herky jerky, the horn rider, the infinite beeper, the turininator and the speed demon.
The herky jerky can't handle the speed control. It is full speed or an e-stop. They ram you or you walk into them. The horn rider is the one who learned how to use to horn and thinks that everyone is required to get out of their way if they keep using it. These are the most hated ones by me. The infinite beeper is the person who can never figure out how to get out of reverse. Most of these things have some sort of tone when in reverse. You can tell them by the panicked look that usually ends with them backing into the wall. The turninator and speed demons are the most dangerous. The turniator will take that random high speed turn to the right or the left trying to get through traffic and plowing over small children, random parade characters and curbs in the process of trying to get to something they passed. The speed demon is the one who refuses to use the brakes. They get up to speed and to heck with anyone who is in their path. They are closely related to the people who use strollers like cowcatchers.

However, there are some courteous ECV drivers. I would offer to buy them an a adult beverage but don't think drinking and driving is a good idea.

 

[PhotoDave219]

It is the rental ones that I watch out for. I even categorize them. The herky jerky, the horn rider, the infinite beeper, the turininator and the speed demon.
The herky jerky can't handle the speed control. It is full speed or an e-stop. They ram you or you walk into them. The horn rider is the one who learned how to use to horn and thinks that everyone is required to get out of their way if they keep using it. These are the most hated ones by me. The infinite beeper is the person who can never figure out how to get out of reverse. Most of these things have some sort of tone when in reverse. You can tell them by the panicked look that usually ends with them backing into the wall. The turninator and speed demons are the most dangerous. The turniator will take that random high speed turn to the right or the left trying to get through traffic and plowing over small children, random parade characters and curbs in the process of trying to get to something they passed. The speed demon is the one who refuses to use the brakes. They get up to speed and to heck with anyone who is in their path. They are closely related to the people who use strollers like cowcatchers.

You mean like the ones I've had to jump out of the way of, lest my ankle get snapped?