Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

[Alektronic]

Thanks for the 'splanation, but it's still not a good excuse.

It's 2012. This should be a simple thing to fix. As soon as the parks lose that music, there is a palpable feeling that something is off. ... I wonder if Erin Youngs is even aware of this and views it as an issue.

It would be easy to fix but the audio control system is still from the 70's. I never see her in the parks, I saw her once with some VIP's at a showing of ROE.

 

[whylightbulb]

That would never happen at WDW, what takes priority is Hourly Ride Counts. I have seen entire show scenes down and they continue to run the ride, but if a people counter doesn't work or the opsheet doesn't update that is a big problem. They will put in extra people to just manually count the riders with a hand clicker because that is the most important thing.

Of course don't you remember the WDC code of conduct and order of operational readiness and importance - empty the customers pockets, spend as little as possible, efficiency, courtesy, safety, show. The antiquated notion that show comes before efficiency is long gone. I recently ran across the Oriental Land Company page that goes into the operational philosophy that made WDW successful http://www.olc.co.jp/en/csr/safety/scse.html. It's funny that on that page they say that this is what the entire WDC uses as a guideline when in reality it is more the exception than the rule except with Tokyo.

 

[Californian Elitist]

If they did that today, nothing in WDW would be open. They have really dug themselves into a pit with lack of maintenence. If they had stayed on top of it, the place would be easy to spit shine into sparkling shape for things like a grand opening of "The Largest Expansion in the Magic Kingdom's History". Now TDO is hopeing that those that know better don't come back. That is why the MO now is to go after the "once-in-a-lifetimers".
I just have to question the wisdom of turning away an ardent fanbase.

Wow... SMH that is sad.

 

[alphac2005]

Okay it's obvious that you are one of the rare good TDO executives that "gets it" and has seen the majority of all this first-hand, or you know someone that is. Looking at your posts I believe you have effectively communicated the the foul stench of the typical TDO manager's arrogance and ignorance. I have worked with these people so I can tell you that your observations are spot-on and I can point to specifc people within the organization that think and behave the way you have described. They would no sooner talk to one of the "marks" that pay their salary than they would take a swim in the sewer. They have no respect for the product and only think of it as a means of advancement for themselves to get a "real job" somewhere. Many of them have literraly never step foot inside one of the parks accept when they were forced to for orientation. I'm talking some high level managers here; many of whom that make decisions directly impacting the guest experience.

While it's extremely disappointing to fans of Walt Disney World with the disconnect between those executing the product and their lack of any involvement in the product itself, it also speaks to corporations throughout this country. It's something that many of us have touched upon time after time here, the Wall St. mentality and just like you mentioned above.

Without going too far off the cliff here, I was once in print and television media and at that time, no matter the outfit, big or small, from the top to the bottom, the employees knew and many times breathed their product whether it was film or television. For the past decade and a half, I've owned a successful retail company and there are many parallels between the two businesses and truthfully all business. What I've seen over the past two decades is a complete collapse in caring or buying into a company's philosophy by a disproportionately high number of employees. It's quite honestly to the point that it makes anyone that is a die-hard fan of a particular company or product look like an idiot because they care so much about a product that the suits on down could care less about and only look at the spreadsheets related to that item or entity. Now, I can understand why many lower ranking employees don't care about their company because so many are treated like dirt today by the management ranks, but when management doesn't even know their product, it's incredible.

Our company deals with manufacturers across the country and world and I even see it in that business. No understanding of the customer base, not listening to retailers, and then the complete utter lack of even knowing their own product. It's so, so frustrating to see how business, for a lack of a better term, is broken. Without debating the ethos of Apple, their manufacturing, etc., there is one clear Walt Disney Company of the past vibe here, their employees top to bottom, live and breathe the company. They buy into what Apple is and what they do. It's incredibly rare in our business world today. The only company that I've ever seen that amount of employees buy-in was the Walt Disney Company before its de-evolution. And, for retail, Costco here in the States is an example of a retailer that has the top to bottom buy-in as well. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why it's the case with Costco. They have extremely healthy numbers, pay all their employees a living wage, and cut out the ridiculous corporate fatcat paychecks and have execs mingle with the "little people."

As it's always been said, change comes from the top in corporate America, and it's so, so true. My father was a high level executive and once he got to that level, he worked relentlessly to address issues of all the rank and file and to right the many wrongs that corporate had done. He didn't reward the MBA crowd that looked at the company as merely a stepping stone and another place to gain stock options on the way out and he understood what the small things meant, whether it was eeking out an extra vacation day, or making sure that bonuses came to all levels at the expense of grossly inflated bonuses to a small number at the top tier. My point here is that from watching him and watching business myself, it's very clear that ONLY WILL TDO CHANGE, IF THOSE IN TOP POSITIONS WITHIN THE COMPANY HAVE THIS PHILOSOPHY. Middle ranking management, nope, that won't do it. It's a top down business world and only if the top sees the ills and knows the right thing to do, then will we see change.

I totally buy into @WDW1974's belief that it will get worse before it gets better. The biggest question for me, is who within the company that has true corporate power gets it? I assume John Lasseter, when he's visited Orlando, isn't blind to the problems in Florida, but besides his plate being spread thin, it seems that his true impact on the company tends to be a tad bit fanboi inflated many times. I can't image many on the Board of Directors having ever stepped into a park, akin to the TDO execs.

 

[JenniferS]

I rather hope she's having lessons in public speaking. Still makes me wince.

And if she dare actually attempt a second food and wine.... One is bad enough. They've trashed my park too much already.

I've only been to F & W twice. The first time was 3 years ago with Hubby and SIL. Hubby is a 6' 8", 265lb giant wall of a man, and he had no trouble navigating us through the mass of humanity which was WS. This year, it was just me, SIL and 2 nieces, and I was actually a little scared. We were pushed and jostled, accosted by obnoxious drunks, and horrified by fools jumping in the fountains. After that first night, we avoided WS for the next 3 days until Food and Wine was over. I can say with absolute certainty, that I will not plan next year's trip during F & W.
I liked it better when the over-the-top merriment was confined to PI; away from the kids; and out of beautiful Epcot.
I think it's kind of sad that 4 women/girls should be made to feel frightened in a family theme park. A second Food and Wine? No thank you.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I haven't been to any of the recent events, but I am hearing that a lot of them (not just F&W, but evening fireworks too) are getting out of hand and frightening people. It's a shame that Disney is letting crowd control slide to the point people are afraid. The only time "FEAR" should enter the equation is on Tower of Terror.

 

[nytimez]

I go to F&W a lot, and I've never had any of these horrible experiences. It does get crowded. I have seen people singing and drunk or whatever. But I've never seen the people peeing in the bushes or jumping into the fountains (although I did see a family in one of them during a non F&W day).

I'm not saying these things don't happen, I'm sure they do - but I don't know if that's the typical F&W experience.

I don't want to see another F&W, and I'd like to see them improve the one they have - but it's honestly one of my favorite events at WDW.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I've only been to F & W twice. The first time was 3 years ago with Hubby and SIL. Hubby is a 6' 8", 265lb giant wall of a man, and he had no trouble navigating us through the mass of humanity which was WS. This year, it was just me, SIL and 2 nieces, and I was actually a little scared. We were pushed and jostled, accosted by obnoxious drunks, and horrified by fools jumping in the fountains. After that first night, we avoided WS for the next 3 days until Food and Wine was over. I can say with absolute certainty, that I will not plan next year's trip during F & W.
I liked it better when the over-the-top merriment was confined to PI; away from the kids; and out of beautiful Epcot.
I think it's kind of sad that 4 women/girls should be made to feel frightened in a family theme park. A second Food and Wine? No thank you.

See, this is where it get confusing. There have been post after post of advocates of alcohol being allowed in the park. How it is old fashioned to feel that an adult can actually have a good time without being liquored up. What foolishness for us to think that total sobriety is a good thing in a family oriented place. I mean really an adult would be responsible enough to not make a fool of themselves in front of families and factor in the cost and there will be no drunks in the parks. Will there? Apparently not! Besides if everyone is drunk enough they won't notice that things are not quite as good as the once were. If they do complain, well, there just a bunch of drunks, who cares what they think.

That was the argument for having alcohol in MK and it appears that management was listening. We haven't heard of any real problems yet, but the novelty is young and we will see what happens. So if you are able to put alcohol in the parks you don't need a place like P.I. The voices of the public have been heard.

How many times have we seen the question..."Is there a place in the park where my (fill in the blank) can get a beer. He/she really likes his/her beer and cannot get through a whole day without one" There was one man that felt he could combine family fun with social responsibility and still make money. Sadly, he is dead and long live the modern life.

 

[Lee]

See, this is where it get confusing. There have been post after post of alcohol being allowed in the park. How it is old fashioned to feel that an adult can actually have a good time without being liquored up. What foolishness for us to think that total sobriety is a good thing in a family oriented place. I mean really an adult would be responsible enough to not make a fool of themselves in front of families and factor in the cost and there will be no drunks in the parks. Will there? Apparently not! Besides if everyone is drunk enough they won't notice that things are not quite as good as the once were. If they do complain, well, there just a bunch of drunks, who cares what they think.

That was the argument for having alcohol in MK and it appears that management was listening. We haven't heard of any real problems yet, but the novelty is young and we will see what happens. So if you are able to put alcohol in the parks you don't need a place like P.I. The voices of the public have been heard.

Not that confusing, really.

At MK you can get an alcoholic beverage with your meal in one restaurant.
At F&W you really can't take twenty paces without encountering some sort of bar, be it a large stand or small cart.

One makes a little sense...the other is taking it to an extreme.

(I'm not a drinker, so I don't have a stake in the whole thing...but the quantities of booze being sold at F&W is just getting silly.)

 

[nytimez]

the quantities of booze being sold at F&W is just getting silly.

I agree. The ice wine served in the Canada booth at F&W is smaller than a thimble!

 

[Lee]

I agree. The ice wine served in the Canada booth at F&W is smaller than a thimble!

 

[baymenxpac]

See, this is where it get confusing. There have been post after post of advocates of alcohol being allowed in the park. How it is old fashioned to feel that an adult can actually have a good time without being liquored up. What foolishness for us to think that total sobriety is a good thing in a family oriented place. I mean really an adult would be responsible enough to not make a fool of themselves in front of families and factor in the cost and there will be no drunks in the parks. Will there? Apparently not! Besides if everyone is drunk enough they won't notice that things are not quite as good as the once were. If they do complain, well, there just a bunch of drunks, who cares what they think.

That was the argument for having alcohol in MK and it appears that management was listening. We haven't heard of any real problems yet, but the novelty is young and we will see what happens. So if you are able to put alcohol in the parks you don't need a place like P.I. The voices of the public have been heard.

How many times have we seen the question..."Is there a place in the park where my (fill in the blank) can get a beer. He/she really likes his/her beer and cannot get through a whole day without one" There was one man that felt he could combine family fun with social responsibility and still make money. Sadly, he is dead and long live the modern life.

i...truthfully don't know what this means, but i implore everyone to not let '74's wonderful thread drift into an alcohol in the resort debate. PLEASE!

back on topic, i've never understood the shift to TDO's strategy to court the once-in-a-lifetimers, yet keep building and selling DVC like it's going out of style. aren't those two things diametrically opposed? if you're breeding new DVC members, doesn't it make sense to keep the parks well-maintained, fresh, and state-of-the-art so that guests want to keep returning?

i still say DVC members hold the key to getting this thing back on the right track.

 

[Goofyernmost]

i...truthfully don't know what this means, but i implore everyone to not let '74's wonderful thread drift into an alcohol in the resort debate. PLEASE!

back on topic, i've never understood the shift to TDO's strategy to court the once-in-a-lifetimers, yet keep building and selling DVC like it's going out of style. aren't those two things diametrically opposed? if you're breeding new DVC members, doesn't it make sense to keep the parks well-maintained, fresh, and state-of-the-art so that guests want to keep returning?

i still say DVC members hold the key to getting this thing back on the right track.

Really, you could have done that very thing by not quoting me and leaving out the first paragraph!

 

[nytimez]

Hey! Anyone who's had the ice wine will tell you I wasn't even making a joke.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

(I'm not a drinker, )

And there in is the source of your misguided perception.

 

[CountryBearFan]

I could not agree more with these statements. Back in the mid to late 80's when I would go with my family in the summer, MK and EPCOT were open until midnight EVERY night. The parks were also in pristine condition. Late hours, quality, and upkeep can all coexist at WDW. TDO just chooses not to let it happen. I highly doubt the elimination of EMH will result in better maintained parks. We'll get the same product with just less time to spend with that product. Even without cutting hours, WDW needs more nighttime options actoss property for onsite guests. Cutting parks hours will show that to be even more true.

At this point I don't think management will ever wake up and change their ways. Whatever they think they can get away with, they will. When they do reach the breaking point, WDW will be in such poor condition it will take a miracle to even get it back to its current state, let alone the place that existed in the 70's, 80's, and the first couple years of the 90's.

I disagree.

I do not think any of what you said is true at all.

Things WILL change for the better. We just need to be patient and optimistic. And I think EMH reductions WILL lead to increased maintenance at the parks.


P.S.: To anyone who says that there's not enough meat on the new Fantasyland... ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! The new Fantasyland has LOTS of meat...and it will have even more of it when the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train and Princess Fairytale Hall open!

 

[alphac2005]

Not that confusing, really.

At MK you can get an alcoholic beverage with your meal in one restaurant.
At F&W you really can't take twenty paces without encountering some sort of bar, be it a large stand or small cart.

One makes a little sense...the other is taking it to an extreme.

(I'm not a drinker, so I don't have a stake in the whole thing...but the quantities of booze being sold at F&W is just getting silly.)

They really should get a new wand up there next to Spaceship Earth and have a old fashioned neon store sign saying "Get Your Booze Here." I mean it isn't about the attractions anymore at Epcot, it's the liquor and food.

 

[marni1971]

Patience and optimism. Yep. That'll do it.

 

[alphac2005]

I disagree.

I do not think any of what you said is true at all.

Things WILL change for the better. We just need to be patient and optimistic. And I think EMH reductions WILL lead to increased maintenance at the parks.

I wish I could an optimist here, but... I think the best way to put it is that I hope that by CUTTING hours for guests, that the downtime will lead to better upkeep. However, reality has shown us that cuts never lead to better performance and upkeep at the Orlando property. They aren't going to cut one cost in order to bring up the cost (being maintenance) of another. Cuts lead to cuts, not spending.

 

[Skibum1970]

Patience and optimism. Yep. That'll do it.

Methinks the Bear has been drinking too much of the Koolaid.