Space Mt. and Juncle Cruise rehabs

mickey04

Member
I honestly don't think that they "damaged" the theme in Adventureland. The only time I hear that is from a few here at the forums. Not actually in MK walking by the attraction. What you hear there is kids asking to ride something that was made for them. Many get scared at Tiki. They get scared on Pirates and can't ride it. They get scared on HM and can't ride it. You're hypothesis about segregating the guests is actually right on target, but the problem is that many of the attractions are not geared to the toddler set... just a few.

My 2yo enjoyed JC, but was not that intrigued by PotC or HM. She likes Tiki somewhat, but was ready to leave after some of the darker moments and never asked to go again. She begged to ride Aladdin over and over. It sounds to me like you want the attractions to fit YOU and not worry about the little ones and try to use your view of the theming as an excuse when in essance you just want something else for you. I think there's room for attractions for all groups. I honestly could care less for Dumbo since it's so slow loading and the lines are long. That doesn't mean that it doesn't have its fans. I'm just not one of them.

I enjoyed AE and thought it was a shame that the warnings were not heeded by some parents. My only support of the change was based on the fact that it wasn't pulling the crowds, didn't generate merchandising sales and it was time for a change. I've seen reports from CMs that said AE had MANY more complaints than SGE and that's the only thing that I agreed was probably accurate. The overall census shows that SGE receives less complaints... not that it helps the attraction. It's still not one that I care for.

You mention that your 2 yo enjoyed the Jungle Cruise, which is I think one of the major aspects that has made that ride so successful. Children enjoy it on one level- namely seeing all the animals and riding in a boat, while adults enjoy the so-bad-its-good humor as well as all the subtle theming. If you put in a Timon and Pumbaa show, it does slowly detract from that theming, making the ride less enjoyable for the older set and more attractive to the younger set. I know I don't necessarily want to get bombarded with a cartoon full of characters I can see elsewhere. And with repeat riding, it just gets annoying. Let's add some new show scenes (perhaps the ones from DL), spruce up the old ones, and get the attraction looking great. That sounds like something everyone can enjoy.
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
I think a lot of purists fail to see the business aspect and just want the parks to be more of what THEY want and not what will help to continue to build on the success they are currently seeing.
It could be a lot of the purists wish the company handled updates and expansion as it used to. Geeks were happy. Fans were happy. Guests were happy. Shareholders were happy. And numbers still went up. Perhaps the days are gone when a new $100m E ride would open every few years, and when every new C-E ride would be a hit. Maybe that`s what they really miss.
 

wannab@dis

Well-Known Member
It could be a lot of the purists wish the company handled updates and expansion as it used to. Geeks were happy. Fans were happy. Guests were happy. Shareholders were happy. And numbers still went up. Perhaps the days are gone when a new $100m E ride would open every few years, and when every new C-E ride would be a hit. Maybe that`s what they really miss.
Or maybe that's just blind nostalgia speaking. Not everyone was happy with things in the past. It's just a simple fact that time erases the displeasure and enhances the pleasure. :wave:
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Or maybe that's just blind nostalgia speaking. Not everyone was happy with things in the past. It's just a simple fact that time erases the displeasure and enhances the pleasure. :wave:
Maybe it is. Maybe it isn`t. The past didn`t do the shareholders or attendence any harm (Outside influences did that)

Maybe both sides are right :wave:

But believe me, I remember clearly the strong letter I wrote to guest relations about how dated Mission to Mars was. For example. Many, including myself, are nostalgic about MTM. But it was still past its sell by date.
 

Lewis Carroll

Account Suspended
The theming works... maybe not for some purists who can't accept something new and different, but it works for the majority of the normal guests. :wave:

How is it something new and different?? They have been overdoing and shoehorning in cartoon charecters since 1993. It is time for something NEW and different that doesnt involve turning everything into a cartoon tiein.
 

Logan5

Member
but it works for the majority of the normal guests. :wave:


I love when people use this term....

Tell me , Whats a normal guest?
 

raven

Well-Known Member
However changing the preshow at Jungle is a direct contradiction to every other part of the attraction.

If you look at the special features section on the Platinum Edition DVD of The Lion King you will see a "Jungle Cruise" with these characters. It's actually quite entertaining and reminded me of the original Jungle Cruise. I think after a successfull sale of these DVDs and the possitive response it got maybe sparked them to include the characters.

After all, now that Legend of the Lion King is out of the MK, no representation of the movie remains in any other MK attraction and maybe guests were asking for something.
 

Slowjack

Well-Known Member
Theming IS a huge part of the experience and I haven't said otherwise. I've simply said that the addition of the video may enhance and plus an old attraction. Just because we don't know how it will work or how a few purists will react doesn't mean that it won't work for the majority of people walking through the gates.

Look at Pirates... people were whining and complaining about the addition of Depp. Now look... all positive reviews and people love the new additions. An old attraction has a new life. Look at the changes at The Land... people whined and complained for months about the change and it was a HUGE success.
You know, just because someone opposes a change doesn't mean they oppose all changes. That's what you always seem to fall back on, these so-called Disney purists who opposed everything. There are many many people on these boards, myself included, who don't oppose everything and like to see things "plussed."

It's just that not everyone agrees on what a "plus" is. In my mind, I can't imagine any way a video screen can be made to fit in with the Jungle Cruise's theme. Setting aside whether your child will enjoy seeing the corporate synergy at work when Tumbaa appears, do you? I mean, since you say you understand how theming is important, on theming alone, do you really think this can be a plus and not a minus? If not, why get so crabby and call people "purists" and "geeks" who do?

You often go on about how Disney is a business, and such and such is bringing in guests and so on. I'm aware that Disney is a business (I'm a shareholder, like a lot of people here), but that doesn't mean I don't get my own opinion. Let's suppose Disney put a big, unthemed hypercoaster in Epcot. Even if that brought in a lot of new attandence, I wouldn't like it--would you? Or would you tell me I was wrong to dislike it because so many other people were riding it?

Or, let's say that Disney started including the "f" word in their animated films, and that got a lot of people into the theater who wouldn't normally come. Would we be purists to object--especially if the films were a HUGE success?

My point is that we all have boundaries on these things. Some of us see a fine line and worry that the current crop of suits at Disney don't see what made places like WDW so magical to previous generations--not asking that the parks be frozen in amber, mind you, but that as changes come they are given the same care and consideration as what was originally there. You are on the other end..."if it works, do it." What some of us believe is that a lot of things can work in the short term but fail in the long term. Stuffing characters in every nook and cranny in the parks, for example, may please the youngest children in the short term, but may, in the long term, lower the desire to return.
 

tink81

New Member
"Normal" guests are those who have no idea that there are forums like this to discuss and disect every move WDC makes, they probably need a park map to get around or the day, don't know/care that JII is on it's third reincarnation since opening, and wouldn't have a coronary if someone mentioned Monorail Expansion, Fifth Gate, Harry Potter, wheelchair rentals, line cutting, or resort mugs.:lol:

I don't want to speak for wannab, but I don't think he meant any malice when he mentioned *normal* guests.
 

Logan5

Member
normal

im sure he didnt mean any malice, but its still narow in thought...

Normal, is a term that is very subjective.... Normal changes from person to person. Can you tell me exactly how many NORMAL guests go to disney? You cant. Its something thats impossible to determine.
 

netenyahoo

New Member
I'm sure Jungle Cruise will get a good refurb like DL's recent one. The plants were all cleaned out and the piranha scene was added (which is great btw). I'm sure the AAs will be updated and a good cleaning and painting. Maybe some changes to the scenes.

I hope Space gets a really good refurb. It needs to be darker and have better effects. The queue line needs to be updated as well as the exit. They probably will put a new track in as I'm sure it could use it after all these years.
 

raven

Well-Known Member
In my mind, I can't imagine any way a video screen can be made to fit in with the Jungle Cruise's theme. Setting aside whether your child will enjoy seeing the corporate synergy at work when Tumbaa appears, do you? I mean, since you say you understand how theming is important, on theming alone, do you really think this can be a plus and not a minus? If not, why get so crabby and call people "purists" and "geeks" who do?

First of all it's Pumba. :p

Secondly I can agree with you somewhat and I see your point about the screens. But if anyone were to add something that seems out-of-theame to an attraction, I think Disney would look at every aspect and do it with style.

I said in another thread that HM needs a desparate update and that I hope they woudn't add other Disney Villains to the show, but if Disney Imagineers are in charge, I would trust them to work on this favorite attraction of mine.
 

tink81

New Member
im sure he didnt mean any malice, but its still narow in thought...

Normal, is a term that is very subjective.... Normal changes from person to person. Can you tell me exactly how many NORMAL guests go to disney? You cant. Its something thats impossible to determine.

I think around here it is a playful way of describing park guests who aren't Disney-holics. Kind of a poking fun at ourselves as "the strange ones" who are always thinking/planning/visitng Disney. It's not a technical term :kiss:
 

raven

Well-Known Member
Went on disneylands SM last month, pretty amazing but i realy dig our seating configurations.

Agreed. I think the single row gives an almost "out of control" feel and to it plus you feel more exposed to the "elements" of space at WDW.
 

wannab@dis

Well-Known Member
You know, just because someone opposes a change doesn't mean they oppose all changes. That's what you always seem to fall back on, these so-called Disney purists who opposed everything. There are many many people on these boards, myself included, who don't oppose everything and like to see things "plussed."

I think most will see a distinct set of posters who seem to complain about every change and that is the group that I was speaking to. You're right, not all posters complain about everything, but there is a significant subset that are very pessimistic about any possible rumors coming out. Read enough of the posts and it's fairly apparent.

It's just that not everyone agrees on what a "plus" is. In my mind, I can't imagine any way a video screen can be made to fit in with the Jungle Cruise's theme. Setting aside whether your child will enjoy seeing the corporate synergy at work when Tumbaa appears, do you? I mean, since you say you understand how theming is important, on theming alone, do you really think this can be a plus and not a minus? If not, why get so crabby and call people "purists" and "geeks" who do?

Who's Tumbaa? :lol:

Of course everyone will not agree on what a "plus" is, but the end result of a change is fairly evident once complete. The Land, PotC and SGE are easy to see examples. I think we can all agree that SGE didn't work while the other two have been very successful. I'll hold my opinion of the change until they have completed the work. But I will say this... I can see the addition working fine and improving / plussing JC for future visits. Just because some don't see it doesn't mean that it can't work. Depp anyone? ;)

You often go on about how Disney is a business, and such and such is bringing in guests and so on. I'm aware that Disney is a business (I'm a shareholder, like a lot of people here), but that doesn't mean I don't get my own opinion. Let's suppose Disney put a big, unthemed hypercoaster in Epcot. Even if that brought in a lot of new attandence, I wouldn't like it--would you? Or would you tell me I was wrong to dislike it because so many other people were riding it?

So when was the last time an "unthemed hypercoaster in Epcot" was rumored? :rolleyes: Let's not be juvenile here and actually stick to real world matters. Theme that baby and I'll be checking it out. :D

Or, let's say that Disney started including the "f" word in their animated films, and that got a lot of people into the theater who wouldn't normally come. Would we be purists to object--especially if the films were a HUGE success?
There you go off the deep end again. It appears you can't develop a decent response to justify your stance. Try again.

My point is that we all have boundaries on these things. Some of us see a fine line and worry that the current crop of suits at Disney don't see what made places like WDW so magical to previous generations--not asking that the parks be frozen in amber, mind you, but that as changes come they are given the same care and consideration as what was originally there. You are on the other end..."if it works, do it." What some of us believe is that a lot of things can work in the short term but fail in the long term. Stuffing characters in every nook and cranny in the parks, for example, may please the youngest children in the short term, but may, in the long term, lower the desire to return.

I challenged earlier in this thread for someone to list the problem areas. I have a feeling they haven't done so simply because recent changes and additions at WDW have been successful for the most part. If WDI was scared that the end result wouldn't always be perfect, they would never try in the first place. It's no guarantee that an idea will always work and DL history shows that very well. Some of the original and early concepts were failures that had to be replaced. The issue here is the simple problem that some don't want them to try to plus an attraction for fear that it may change their nostalgic views of the attraction. They can't stagnate so change is necessary. Not all changes or additions will be perfect but the attempt is always good for the company.

Finally... you may want to read a little more about the history of the DL. It was primarily built to intertwine the media arm into the parks. The entire park was broken into lands that were based, albeit some loosely, on television and movie properties. Just remember, it was all started with a ... yeah that's right... a cartoon character. :D
 

wannab@dis

Well-Known Member
"Normal" guests are those who have no idea that there are forums like this to discuss and disect every move WDC makes, they probably need a park map to get around or the day, don't know/care that JII is on it's third reincarnation since opening, and wouldn't have a coronary if someone mentioned Monorail Expansion, Fifth Gate, Harry Potter, wheelchair rentals, line cutting, or resort mugs.:lol:

I don't want to speak for wannab, but I don't think he meant any malice when he mentioned *normal* guests.
You're entirely correct... WE are not the normal guests. Thinking so is the narrow minded view point. :lol:
 

Slowjack

Well-Known Member
First of all it's Pumba. :p

Secondly I can agree with you somewhat and I see your point about the screens. But if anyone were to add something that seems out-of-theame to an attraction, I think Disney would look at every aspect and do it with style.
Maybe I combined Pumba and Timon? :lookaroun

For the record, I would welcome improvements to the JC. I saw a video of the changes to DL's and they look great. I just don't want to see any veido screens, and I don't think JC needs any cute characters, whether actually from Disney films or straight from my addled brain...
 

raven

Well-Known Member
I saw a video of the changes to DL's and they look great. I just don't want to see any veido screens, and I don't think JC needs any cute characters, whether actually from Disney films or straight from my addled brain...

I rode JC at Disneyland last February at nightime. I don't remember it being all that different and I especially don't remember the piranas. Maybe because it was dark I wasn't able to tell the difference. :veryconfu Guess I missed out.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom