Space Mt. and Juncle Cruise rehabs

[mickey04]

Does anyone know what salary a new skipper starts at, compared to say a new stage performer?

Skippers get paid the base rate that most cast members start at, which I believe right now is $6.90. Performers tend to be under contract, so it really depends on what they're doing and who they're signed up with. However, normal "entertainment" roles (i.e. the characters) usually get a slight premium over that base rate.

 

[CrashNet]

Indeed it does - so imagine what $30m could do if used for enhanced A/V effects and track tweaking....

drool...

I am, and I'm liking it. :slurp:

If we judge by the DL refurb suspected price tag of $15 million and look how well that turned out I like the $30 million budget.

Wow, it was only $15 million for DL? Now I really want to know what they're going to do.

I too hope they keep the single seat arrangement. Thats half the fun because you don't even have a person beside you to keep you from becoming disoriented. The track is an older Wild Mouse design. I would guess there are portions of the track that are not wide enough or do not have enough clearance to allow a two person row train. I'm sure they also have to consider the weight of the car, and the potential extra wear and tear, g-forces, etc. Lots to consider.

 

[wannab@dis]

I am, and I'm liking it. :slurp:



Wow, it was only $15 million for DL? Now I really want to know what they're going to do.

I too hope they keep the single seat arrangement. Thats half the fun because you don't even have a person beside you to keep you from becoming disoriented. The track is an older Wild Mouse design. I would guess there are portions of the track that are not wide enough or do not have enough clearance to allow a two person row train. I'm sure they also have to consider the weight of the car, and the potential extra wear and tear, g-forces, etc. Lots to consider.

I'm fairly certain the track design was custom and had nothing to do with the Wild Mouse tracks. Way before their time. Could be wrong, but if I remember correctly, it was revolutionary design at the time with the tubular track. I'm sure Marni or Lee could shed some light on the subject.

I agree... if that budget number is accurate, there's a lot that can be done. Looking forward to hearing more details!

 

[CoffeeJedi]

I'm all for rehabbing both of these attractions. They're really showing their wear and tear, but both are still endlessly entertaining.
But i'm staunchly AGAINST shoe-horning cartoon characters into the Jungle Cruise. They have their place, but i'd like some classic and new attractions to have that old "magic-reality" feel. I think that Expedition Everest pulls this off. Just because its Disney doesn't mean it has to be cartoony. Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Alien Encounter, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, Jungle Cruise, World of Motion... all of them are/were comedic and interesting without being cartoony. They were all set in basically the "real world", but still a version where the boundaries have been pushed a bit. Adding Timon and Pumbaa would clash and turn the Jungle Cruise into something completely different. New additions would be great, but only if they fit the feel of the ride.

 

[marni1971]

I'm fairly certain the track design was custom and had nothing to do with the Wild Mouse tracks. Way before their time. Could be wrong, but if I remember correctly, it was revolutionary design at the time with the tubular track. I'm sure Marni or Lee could shed some light on the subject.

Indeed :wave:

The Matterhorn was the worlds first tuibular steel track rollercoaster. A few years later, work began on Space Port, which evolved into WDWs Space Mountain. For 1975, SM was revolutionary. Custom track design, the first to be designed on a new fangled computer. No wild mouse here! SM was also the first to be totally under computer control; CMs would instruct the ride system to launch, but the ride itself was controlled by the chip. SM was also evolutionary to have a duel coaster in the dark.

SM was also the first to incorporate a new track safety system; the track is split into sections; each section consists of the hollow track tube being slightly pressurised. A lack of pressure in a zone indicates a problem - way before a visual or x-ray inspection would find it.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I don't know if it was in this thread or another one, that talked about a Jungle Cruise movie.

I remember writing about this for a marketing project a little over a year ago. My understanding is that this was just an idea, and it never developed. There is nothing officially announced right now (no IMDB page).

I actually remember an old thread where there was some discussion on the movie itself, and the following quote was uttered, "Oooh, I hope they have a really funny comedian as the lead... like Kathy Griffin"

Anyways, as of right now the film seems to have disappeared, so if it does happen, It's not likely it would happen before 2008-2009 with the time it takes to set up, film and release a movie.

 

[raven]

I don't know if it was in this thread or another one, that talked about a Jungle Cruise movie.

I remember writing about this for a marketing project a little over a year ago. My understanding is that this was just an idea, and it never developed. There is nothing officially announced right now (no IMDB page).

I actually remember an old thread where there was some discussion on the movie itself, and the following quote was uttered, "Oooh, I hope they have a really funny comedian as the lead... like Kathy Griffin"

Anyways, as of right now the film seems to have disappeared, so if it does happen, It's not likely it would happen before 2008-2009 with the time it takes to set up, film and release a movie.

Kinda funny they would make a movie about an attraction that was inspired by a movie. The inspiration for TJC came from the film The African Queen with Humphry Bogart and Katharine Hepburn. I remember seeing this movie in a film class I took in high school and kept thinking how similar it was to TJC. And then I found out it inspired the attraction.

http://www.reelclassics.com/Movies/African/african.htm

 

[Capt. Jack]

I have rode both the Disneyland California & Disneyland Paris Space Mountains & both were eunique in there own special way.

The one in California was not only smoother, but the music & all just worked together so well. The one in Paris was not only sorta ruff, but it had 2 inversions, which is more then any other Space Mountain. I think it'd be extremely cool if they took both of these things & put it into one, the one in Walt Disney World of course though.

As far as the Jungle Cruise, this ride is a classic. After saying that, I can definatly see in todays growing theme park world where they'd most likely have to kick it up a knotch. They probably can come up with many ideas to fix this ride, but they could never use real animals, seeing as this is Magic Kingdom were talking about here, not Animal Kingdom. Oh well, i'm sure whatever idea they may come up with will be decent enough.

 

[CoffeeJedi]

I figure there's two ways to do the Jungle Cruise movie. The Pirate way, and the Mansion way.

If they go the PotC route, you take the look, the feel, the setting, and a few scenes from the attraction, and flesh it out. Create characters that seem organic, like they could have been in the attraction for years. Give it a great unique storyline that doesn't contradict anything in the original, and allow the actors to develop unique performances and memorable characters.

oooooooooooor
Go the way of the Haunted Mansion. You take the look, the feel, the music, even a few show scenes and put them in a beautifull elaborate setting. Then stick a generic family in there with a generic "family pulls together" plot, and a ham of a comedian who just plays himself and mugs for the camera, pushing all the really interesting attraction-related elements into the background, into a crass obnoxious mess of a movie.

I think that the Jungle Cruise could be a great movie. Give a us a funny sarcastic skipper, surround him with unique memorable characters, a 1937~ish time frame, a villian that we love to hate, and pack the whole thing with cool set pieces and action taken from the attraction. DO NOT make a "family movie" about a bunch of plucky kids who defeat an eeeeevil land developer and save the rainforest with the help of a cute monkey sidekick or talking parrot.

 

[Capt. Jack]

I figure there's two ways to do the Jungle Cruise movie. The Pirate way, and the Mansion way.

If they go the PotC route, you take the look, the feel, the setting, and a few scenes from the attraction, and flesh it out. Create characters that seem organic, like they could have been in the attraction for years. Give it a great unique storyline that doesn't contradict anything in the original, and allow the actors to develop unique performances and memorable characters.

oooooooooooor
Go the way of the Haunted Mansion. You take the look, the feel, the music, even a few show scenes and put them in a beautifull elaborate setting. Then stick a generic family in there with a generic "family pulls together" plot, and a ham of a comedian who just plays himself and mugs for the camera, pushing all the really interesting attraction-related elements into the background, into a crass obnoxious mess of a movie.

I think that the Jungle Cruise could be a great movie. Give a us a funny sarcastic skipper, surround him with unique memorable characters, a 1937~ish time frame, a villian that we love to hate, and pack the whole thing with cool set pieces and action taken from the attraction. DO NOT make a "family movie" about a bunch of plucky kids who defeat an eeeeevil land developer and save the rainforest with the help of a cute monkey sidekick or talking parrot.

ROFL - So true. There are so many possibilities that can be put into this movie to make it a very great film.

 

[wannab@dis]

ROFL - So true. There are so many possibilities that can be put into this movie to make it a very great film.

Welcome to the boards! :wave:

Just a request... for those of us running high resolutions, your posts are VERY hard to read. Could you pick a larger font please? Thanks!

 

[Capt. Jack]

Welcome to the boards! :wave:

Just a request... for those of us running high resolutions, your posts are VERY hard to read. Could you pick a larger font please? Thanks!

lol. I'm very sorry about that. & thanks for welcoming me. :sohappy:

 

[wannab@dis]

lol. I'm very sorry about that. & thanks for welcoming me. :sohappy:

No problem! I've seen your posts and have enjoyed reading them, but not "reading" them. :lol:

Join in and have a blast! :wave:

 

[Pete C]

#1: I do NOT want to see our SM become a jerky Vekoma looper. We already have one in RnRC. I know some will come to the defense of such rides and say they are smooth, but there are some people out there that don't know how much smoother newer coaster technology is. Vekoma's looper track is OLD...they still use the same track design that Arrow used in the 80s. Forget all that. Now, EE (and I believe SM at DL) uses a new Vekoma track with the current "wheels on the outside of the track" design...much smoother, and that is what I expect to be installed in SM. I'd rather there be no loops...I want to see a shoulder restraint-free, twisting, turning track with a lot of drops. Similar to the current design, if not the same with a few tweaks. I also want to see a pitch black space, where you cannot see anything besides stars all around you and whatever special effects they put in there. Also, I hope they design the ride so that you can ride the entire thing with your hands up and not worry about losing your fingers.

#2: I think we will kiss the single seat configuration goodbye. I have seen too often parents who want to ride with their kids, and they have to shove them in seats often in the car behind them, or I have been asked to move so that someone can sit in the same car as their kid. I'd rather see a side-by-side seating arrangement. That way you and your friend can BOTH ride in the front seat or back seat. Someone sitting next to you should not ruin the immersion as it should be pitch black ideally anyway.

#3: I would not be surprised to see them also ditch the 2-track system. With all the space in there I would much rather see that dedicated to a longer ride with better use of the space. If designed properly, it should not add to the wait times much.

On the project size, 30 million is plenty of money for a new coaster...a coaster of this size should be about 10-15 million judging from other coaster projects, leaving about 15 million for effects and queue upgrades. EE was so expensive because they had to design 3 different structures all sitting next to each other. SM already has the building, and the interior is just a big empty room so they really only have to worry about a single new structure.

Bottom line, I don't care if they gut the attraction and create a new ride, but it needs to pay homage to the original design elements and what made people love the original. In other words, are you really going to care if it doesn't go left exactly when you expect or drop when you expect? If the ride is still about the same level of intensity, same enjoyable curves and sudden drops, but in a perhaps different layout? As long as they don't turn this into RnRC in space, I'm sure I will be happy.

 

[MagliteL13]

#3: I would not be surprised to see them also ditch the 2-track system. With all the space in there I would much rather see that dedicated to a longer ride with better use of the space. If designed properly, it should not add to the wait times much.

I agree that if it's designed properly, it SHOULDN'T add much to the wait times. The problem, I think would be in theming. BTM is a very well designed and thought out coaster in terms of ride capacity, so I'll compare to it. RotM is also well designed and thought out in terms of capacity. Both rank 2nd and 1st in OHRC for a single track coaster and have completely different concepts. BTM works with a longer train and because they have several different zones/scenes/whatever you want to call them. They take longer to load a larger amount of people. The train also fits with the themeing. Having a long train, IMO, doesn't fit with SM. It doesn't give you the rocket ship type feel. Doing it along the lines of RotM (load and dispatch a small amount of people as quickly and as often as possible) would work very well and still keep part of the original concept. I honestly see more advantage in a quicker dispatch interval than a full train, but I guess I'm partly biased from working mummy. The record at RotM was set with one less than the max. cars on the track--so even it can be improved. Quicker dispatch=shorter lines=happier guests. I hope some of this made sense...

 

[Pete C]

I agree that the trains should only be 2 cars in length, as they are now. However, if you increase the seating to 2-across you get bump in capacity needed for single-track right there. I realize there is more to it, but the trains only hold 6 people each right now when it could be 12. How many does DL's version hold per train?

 

[marni1971]

If the track layout is kept (with or without direct swap) we won`t see side by side seating; the layout, clearences and most of all the dynamics are configured for the current sized car; look what happened at DLC just by adding audio equipment.

There again, I`d hate to see a duel track go away. There is plenty of room in the building for a longer, reconfigured duel track layout. Imagine shooting right upto and along the interior roofline! With todays construction and support techniques the current `scaffhold` structure could be replaced with something more elegant and space-saving. Foundations allowing; Half the mountain was built on a lake

I doubt this would happen for $30m though.

 

[wannab@dis]

I agree that if it's designed properly, it SHOULDN'T add much to the wait times. The problem, I think would be in theming. BTM is a very well designed and thought out coaster in terms of ride capacity, so I'll compare to it. RotM is also well designed and thought out in terms of capacity. Both rank 2nd and 1st in OHRC for a single track coaster and have completely different concepts. BTM works with a longer train and because they have several different zones/scenes/whatever you want to call them. They take longer to load a larger amount of people. The train also fits with the themeing. Having a long train, IMO, doesn't fit with SM. It doesn't give you the rocket ship type feel. Doing it along the lines of RotM (load and dispatch a small amount of people as quickly and as often as possible) would work very well and still keep part of the original concept. I honestly see more advantage in a quicker dispatch interval than a full train, but I guess I'm partly biased from working mummy. The record at RotM was set with one less than the max. cars on the track--so even it can be improved. Quicker dispatch=shorter lines=happier guests. I hope some of this made sense...

I don't agree that more people would hurt the theming at all. SpMtn is supposed to represent future space travel and TRANSPORT guests to far off reaches. You don't have to transport those guests in small quantities since most transportation modes are built to transport many people. Space Mountain is about the days when space travel is available on a massive scale, not just a couple of people at a time.

 

[raven]

I don't see an entire new track laid, audio added and an effects & cue update for $30mil. I can see almost everything but the new track. Then again, adding new cars with nylon wheels would make a huge difference in smoothness.

One way to make it darker would be to enclose the queue area. This area gives off a lot of light and you can see the structure when you are on it. IF this area was covered they would also have more area for effects or track as well.

Personally I like the single row cars. It gives more of an out of control feel to it. SP at DL feels more like RnR to me and I didn't really enjoy it much (and that's coming from a HUGE coaster fan). I rode Matterhorn several times when I was at DL because it was the same type of cars as WDW's Space Mountain. Even though it was very bumpy I loved every second of it!

 

[marni1971]

I`d hate them to cover the queue area - the view from down there to me is part of the thrill (especially if you`ve been queuing for a while - you feel you`ve finally arrived). Maybe make it darker, or installing new lighting might help. Is it my imagination or did it infact used to be darker in the queue?