Space Mountain

[Lee]

Originally posted by Glasgow
Sure, you can speed it up a little, change the effects, do whatever .. just keep it so that it is accessible to all ages, like Walt originally intended.

You are presuming too much.
Nowhere can Walt be quoted as saying, "Boy, I sure want Matterhorn and Space Mountain to be accessable to people of all ages."
He never said that. In fact, in it's time, Matterhorn was considered to be a major thrill attraction, on par with RnRC today, which is what he wanted. Not everyone cared to ride such a thrilling ride, and that was OK with Walt. Same goes for Space Mountain. He never saw the finished ride, but he helped design the early concepts, many of which would be far more thrilling than what we have today.

Not every ride needs to be accessable to kids. Simple as that. Or else we would have a whole park of Dumbos, etc.

 

[marni1971]

Indeed, remember Walt was against ANY rollercoaster in his parks at first... he eventually gave in to public demand (and Roy?) so long as it something special, something unique... as the Matterhorn was (and still is special).

Then the cogs started turning on the NEXT level of thrill ride - Space Port...

 

[paulcmartens]

thrill junkies...

Thanks Marni(1971),

I'm really getting tired of the thrill junkies demanding more disney 'rides'. As if somehow Walt was all about the 'thrill' and plummeting drop.

Walt loved the idea of a walkthrough where you weren't controlled by a ride system or technology...he loved the free moving aspect of a space, it created a more 'creative' experience where you controlled how you took in an attraction.

Lee, go to six flags, or bush gardens ride your Kumba, Kracken or Millenium force...some of us appreciate Disney for what he was, and not insist he or his namesake company change.

Le'ts not call Space Mountain a Walt attraction because he wasn't there to finish the attraction...who knows what Hench had adjusted to suit things he believed was correct.

Pirates was Walt's last show...and it says a lot of how things had and had not changed in his design of parks over the years.

 

[YoHo]

Walt didn't have a problem with "Thrills" but he always wanted there to be a nod and a wink so you always knew it was nothing to be afraid of. I'm not a coaster person, I think the be all end all attractions are PotC, HM and Indiana Jones and the temple of the forbidden eye. I think that Disney truely soars when they do rides like this where the thrill has more to do with mental imagry then with physical sensations.
Not that they shouldn't do more coaster. BTMRR and Matterhorn are two of my favorite rides ever, but it isn't where Disney's core talent traditionally has been.

 

[Legacy]

Originally Posted By Lee-
Honestly, I've never seen people cling to something so hard.

I have... remember Toad?

I think it's funny that so many people were livid about Toad closing, but now that Pooh is there and the line is longer than Toad's ever was they aren't complaining as much about the Wild Ride being gone. They miss it sure, but they see the logic in what Disney did.

I'm with Lee on this one. If Space Mountain did get an overhaul you would see that 90 minute line increase threefold. Everybody would miss the old one, but after seeing how much the new one attracts the logic would become clear.

 

[marni1971]

I guess an all round compromise wouild be to go the DLC route - refit a new track with the old layout and update the effects (got to get queue area pix first - there are not that many available!) and maybe add music.

Speaking of effects, how many actually are there?

Chocotlate chip asteroids (of course - and still holds up today!)

The blue light tunnels (long)

blue light tunnels (short, at base of lifts)

The mission control booths either side of the TTA, and the spaceship / spacemen above the lift hill (I persume these spacemen and mission controllers are mannaquins and not AA)

Of course, the stars

Isn`t there a galaxy projection somewhere just before you make a sharp turn?

Is part of the track still UV orange?

The re entry tunnels


The more I think about it, the more I would miss these!! Did I miss any out?

There isn`t a lot compared to POTC or HM, but I guess it wasn`t designed as a special effects attraction - simply (at the time) a state of the art rollercoaster Disney style.

 

[sissa216]

Originally posted by maxime29
Out of curiosity, do they stil sell those shirts with the black sleves and the white or grey front and back w/ the SPMT logo?

Yep, I'm wearing mine right now

WELCOME CLAUDIA!!!!:sohappy: :wave:

 

[sissa216]

Ok me again. I'm still clinging:animwink:

I agree that changing would probably triple our wait time (which during Christmas nearly hit three hours; our fastpasses were completely wiped out by 11 am). Anything new at Disney is gonna draw the lines. But how many of you have had to turn away a kid because they were 43 1/2 inches? The Magic Kingdom, of all parks, is not the place for thrill rides. That's why RnRC is over at MGM. I too am a huge fan of thrill rides, but I don't think SM should be one. The Magic Kingdom doesn't have to be a "kiddy" park full of Dumbo rides, but it should be somewhere where the entire family can ride pretty much everything and enjoy themselves together.

 

[Shaman]

Originally posted by paulcmartens
All I'm saying, is that's backwards and very unoriginal way to do imagineering. Yes TOT has firsts, and its super impressive...but they are (and some of you folks on board) are saying, lets have better thrills.

As per family...fine, but if I had a family...RNR still wouldn't be a 'family' attraction...because by the time any kid COULD ride the attraction...they could do it on their own with their teen friends.

The parks are the ones that should primarily be geared towards families...not exactly single attractions...I agree though, cheap thrills for the most part shouldn't be the focus of WDI, however to make sure the parks can appeal to the whole family, all types of rides must be created.

Today, we consider RnRC, ToT, and M:S to be the top thrill rides at WDW...twenty years from now they will just be classic rides that have in many cases grown old...like SM today...not too thrilling...(especially, if you can have a conversation with the people in the cars infront of you, while riding, I've done this)....

Disney caters more to the younger demographic groups than the older ones...a good example would be the replacement of AE with Stitch...and what I like to call the dumbing down of the Imagination ride and lets not forget the addition of NEMO to TLS...but for the most part they attempt to balance and keep the parks appealing to all...such additions as M:S and further down the line EE are great examples of this...I am far from being a thrill seeker...infact my favorite ride at Disney is the Safari at AK, and many people disregard thrill rides...but that doesn't mean that Disney shouldn't cater to thrill seekers as well.

 

[Lee]

Re: thrill junkies...

Originally posted by paulcmartens
Thanks Marni(1971),
Lee, go to six flags, or bush gardens ride your Kumba, Kracken or Millenium force...some of us appreciate Disney for what he was, and not insist he or his namesake company change.

Pirates was Walt's last show...and it says a lot of how things had and had not changed in his design of parks over the years.

Ok, I give up. If we've gotten to the point of banishing people to Six Flags, we've crossed some sort of line. Especially when you question my appreciation for Disney. I've got more of my life invested in this company than almost anyone here, and believe me, I appreciate Disney for what HE was, what his company has become, and what it has the potential to be in the future.

Forgive me for hoping that the parks could change and evolve, while still conveying that special Disney magic, no matter what the method of delivery. I didn't realize that there was such a strong passion for creating not a living, evolving theme park, but a museum of old rides that can never be touched. I never endorsed turning the park into Six Flags or a coaster park, those are a dime a dozen. What I do strongly advocate, is for every Disney ride to be the BEST OF IT'S TYPE IN THE WORLD. The best dark ride, the best simulator, the best water ride, the best coaster. Period. Anything less is an insult to Walt. That is the root of my feeling about Space Mountain. I honestly feel that it's quality is not what it should be.

And is it really a good idea that we never touch another existing ride?
Peter Pan, Snow White, Mansion, Pirates, etc.? They will remain untouched, unupdated, for the next 50 years no matter what advances are made in ride system, animatronics, or sound?
It's just silly.
Walt said so himself: "Whenever I go on a ride, I'm always thinking of what's wrong with the thing and how it can be improved." "Disneyland is like a piece of clay, if there is something I don't like, I'm not stuck with it. I can reshape and revamp."

End of rant....

 

[cloudboy]

Best does NOT mean latest, fastest, steepest, OR most intense. That is exactly what some of us are trying to say. Just because the roller coaster does not have the steepest drop or the fastest hill or the latest ooh-ahh! special effects does not mean it is not the best. It's character of the ride, storyline, and the feel of the ride that is important.

I am NOT against change. I AM against change that trades off character and story for the latest character and chance to use a special effect.

 

[maxime29]

So tell you what....How about we just make Splash Mountain maybe 100 ft taller and that would be good enough for thrills....or maybe put a loop in BTMR.....or make IASW a thrill ride (now that I think of it, that would sound really funny :lol: ).

 

[marni1971]

Individual IASW headrest speakers with a techno remix too? ...its BOOM a BOOM BOOM ssssmall world BOOM TEE BOOM after after after a a a a all BOOM......:lol:

 

[Glasgow]

Whatever happens, it won't stop me going to WDW or riding Space Mtn. Don't take things too seriously people - it's not going to change your life either way. Now if it was going to affect the price of beer, then some heads would start rolling!

:lol:

 

[imagineer99]

Re: Re: thrill junkies...

Originally posted by Lee
Ok, I give up. If we've gotten to the point of banishing people to Six Flags, we've crossed some sort of line. Especially when you question my appreciation for Disney. I've got more of my life invested in this company than almost anyone here, and believe me, I appreciate Disney for what HE was, what his company has become, and what it has the potential to be in the future.

Forgive me for hoping that the parks could change and evolve, while still conveying that special Disney magic, no matter what the method of delivery. I didn't realize that there was such a strong passion for creating not a living, evolving theme park, but a museum of old rides that can never be touched. I never endorsed turning the park into Six Flags or a coaster park, those are a dime a dozen. What I do strongly advocate, is for every Disney ride to be the BEST OF IT'S TYPE IN THE WORLD. The best dark ride, the best simulator, the best water ride, the best coaster. Period. Anything less is an insult to Walt. That is the root of my feeling about Space Mountain. I honestly feel that it's quality is not what it should be.

And is it really a good idea that we never touch another existing ride?
Peter Pan, Snow White, Mansion, Pirates, etc.? They will remain untouched, unupdated, for the next 50 years no matter what advances are made in ride system, animatronics, or sound?
It's just silly.
Walt said so himself: "Whenever I go on a ride, I'm always thinking of what's wrong with the thing and how it can be improved." "Disneyland is like a piece of clay, if there is something I don't like, I'm not stuck with it. I can reshape and revamp."

End of rant....

Incredibly well said, Lee!

 

[se8472]

Originally posted by sissa216
Ok me again. I'm still clinging:animwink:

I agree that changing would probably triple our wait time (which during Christmas nearly hit three hours; our fastpasses were completely wiped out by 11 am). Anything new at Disney is gonna draw the lines. But how many of you have had to turn away a kid because they were 43 1/2 inches? The Magic Kingdom, of all parks, is not the place for thrill rides. That's why RnRC is over at MGM. I too am a huge fan of thrill rides, but I don't think SM should be one. The Magic Kingdom doesn't have to be a "kiddy" park full of Dumbo rides, but it should be somewhere where the entire family can ride pretty much everything and enjoy themselves together.

AMEN SISTER!

 

[Lee]

Originally posted by cloudboy
Best does NOT mean latest, fastest, steepest, OR most intense. That is exactly what some of us are trying to say. Just because the roller coaster does not have the steepest drop or the fastest hill or the latest ooh-ahh! special effects does not mean it is not the best. It's character of the ride, storyline, and the feel of the ride that is important.
I am NOT against change. I AM against change that trades off character and story for the latest character and chance to use a special effect.

Actually I agree completely. Space Mtn. does not need to be the fastest, steepest or most intense.
However, it should not be a ride that rips my ID off my lanyard because it is so bumpy. That happened a month ago.
I just know Disney can do so much better, as will be proven in 15 months in Anaheim. Would the ride be ruined with better effects, a smoother track, and soundtrack? I think not.

As far as change for the latest character, I also agree. Losing Alien Encounter for a kid-ified Stitch ride is pathetic. Synergy can go to far.

 

[paulcmartens]

Actually I agree completely. Space Mtn. does not need to be the fastest, steepest or most intense.
However, it should not be a ride that rips my ID off my lanyard because it is so bumpy. That happened a month ago.
I just know Disney can do so much better, as will be proven in 15 months in Anaheim. Would the ride be ruined with better effects, a smoother track, and soundtrack? I think not.

O.k. this is starting to sound more reasonable. I'm amazed at the fact that SM still doesn't go beyond 24 mph, yet really throws you for a loop (yet doesn't).

A crap track doesn't do anybody good...so that has to be replaced, or better taken care of (RNR is alarmingly smooth for being 5 years old).

 

[imagineer99]

Originally posted by Lee
Actually I agree completely. Space Mtn. does not need to be the fastest, steepest or most intense.
However, it should not be a ride that rips my ID off my lanyard because it is so bumpy. That happened a month ago.
I just know Disney can do so much better, as will be proven in 15 months in Anaheim. Would the ride be ruined with better effects, a smoother track, and soundtrack? I think not.

As far as change for the latest character, I also agree. Losing Alien Encounter for a kid-ified Stitch ride is pathetic. Synergy can go to far.

I understood what you were saying the entire time...

 

[Lee]

Thanks, I'm glad someone did.