Space Mountain

[imagineer99]

Originally posted by paulcmartens
I guess what I'm trying to say, and darkmeasures you are proving my point...is that the parks are gearing towards more adult things these days...and that's shying away from what Walt originally wanted.

The only reason why I'll be there at DCA's TOT is that I hear its tamer. Otherwise, I wouldn't ride it.

If you guys want Disney's Parks to be more adult...fine...but look at the SFMM's or other 'thrill parks'.

Thrills don't necessarily indicate an "adult park." EPCOT is a perfect example of this. There are only two true thrill rides in the entire park, yet it appeals mostly to adults.

Walt was a dreamer, an innovator, and above all, a business man. He realized that in order for parks to appeal to a wide range of people, you need a wide range of rides. From immersive dark rides, to themed carnival rides, to thrill rides, an attractive theme park must entertain everyone.

I would never want any of the parks in WDW to become strictly thrill based. However, parks in absence of thrills would appeal to a very limited audience.

You said that creating thrill rides is against the concept of imagineering
I feel that it is the exact opposite. Creating an immersive experience whether it be from existing technology, or brand new technology is truly an art form. Creativity knows no boundaries...
Imagination can be applied to attractions from all over the spectrum---thrilling and not thrilling.

Saying that WDW is starting to appeal primarily to adults is not true. Instead, the parks are apealing to what Walt would have wanted -- everybody.

 

[paulcmartens]

so how does splitting up the family for different rides make it a 'family' park? Wow, there's 'togetherness'.

 

[paulcmartens]

Walt was not first and foremost a business man! My god, read his bio! Business disasters everywhere...thank God he had his older brother to keep him in line.

 

[markc]

Originally posted by paulcmartens
so how does splitting up the family for different rides make it a 'family' park? Wow, there's 'togetherness'.

Even if we went by your plan on what rides should be included in the park, the family would be split. No teenager is going to ride Dumbo with his family; nor will a teenager have the patience to ride 10 different omni-mover rides. Park demographics have stated that the average people who attend WDW are families with kids in the range of 7-18. The plan you have the park would tend to ignore those demographics and create a park for senior citizens and those under the age of 11.
Don't get me wrong; I don't believe any of the parks need to be proliferated with a bunch of thrill rides, but they definitely need a good amount of them to appease the masses. The fact that TOT, RNR, Space and Splash Mountain, etc... all have wait times that are the longest in the parks (while keeping in mind that their load capacities are some of the highest as well), pretty much speaks volumes in itself. What you may want or what you may think Walt wants, isn't what the public wants.

 

[paulcmartens]

well...

Well, I'm just going to have to create my own park then!

I think there is a market for a park geared primarily with young families.

When I think 'family' I don't think teenagers...they have their own friends and own cliques and are already really grown up. I did not like family vacations when I was older. I thought they were dumb and confining.

I should qualify this as young families, kids under the age of twelve. That's what Walt's parks were originally geared for.

I would be curious to see somebody come up and create another disneyland, that started with small scale attractions for everyone in mind (stuff like Pirates...no height limits).

(Imagineer 99...thrill rides have height requirements, so a park that includes thrill rides isn't for 'everybody'.)

One of my favorite pictures is of Walt with Dali on his Carolwood train. Here you have two mavericks enjoying this little kiddie attraction.

I don't know about you, but I love the kiddie rides just as much if not more than the big rides...Heimlicks Chew chew train?! A classic.

I wish they had fastpasses for the kiddie rides...I would do those in a heart beat.

 

[DarkMeasures]

OK, you do that and you can name it Santa's Village or Kiddyland.

 

[Heyyall]

Re: Re: according to Marty Sklar et al.

But SpaceMountain is still THE COASTER.

I totally agree. Although there's mill. force now, and that outdoes SM in the top speed and height aspect, Space Mountain is still The Coaster in my book.

Originally posted by objr
Times have indeed changed, and well to survive Disney HAS to change with those times.

I do not think Walt's primary focus was on KIDS, rather his primary focus was on FAMILY. Rides back then seem kiddie because today rides are bigger and more thrilling, ten to twenty and thirty years from now that opinion will change because attractions will only get better, faster more thrilling....


Hence the reason, Space Mountain, I think, should be completely updated (adding better, innovative effects, tracks, cars)....just my opinion....

Just because times are changing and everyone enjoys the best thrill tides doesn't mean that Disney has to change everything along with that. If Disney has to have a bunch of thrill rides to keep up, build new ones. (even though i dont think it has to keep up) Why gut a classic (I don't know if wanted it completely gutted or just changed a little, that isn't directed towards you) to keep up with six flags and places like that. Instead of changing everything to keep up, save some things and keep them the way they are and build newer rides for the thrill part.

I don't think that Disney has to change everything to keep up with the times. Disney is not like any other park.
No other theme parks are in there own little world and have the magic that Disney does. Disney isn't like a six flags where every year they come out with the newest and best coaster. Even though I visit six flags a lot and go on every thrill ride, it can't compare in any way to how I enjoy Disney, even though the rides don't give the same thrill. The rides at Disney don't give the scary thrill, but they do it in a magical way. Just my opinion though.

 

[DarkMeasures]

Re: Re: Re: according to Marty Sklar et al.

Originally posted by Heyyall
Disney isn't like a six flags where every year they come out with the newest and best coaster.

Funny you should mention that since Six Flags parks have lately been getting unthemed clones of Disney's coasters. (Primeevil Whril and RnRC)

 

[Heyyall]

Re: Re: Re: Re: according to Marty Sklar et al.

Originally posted by DarkMeasures
Funny you should mention that since Six Flags parks have lately been getting unthemed clones of Disney's coasters. (Primeevil Whril and RnRC)

So Six Flags is copying Disney? Im not sure what you mean. The six flags near me doesn't have anything like RnRc, or Primeval Whirl.

 

[DarkMeasures]

I know one six flag parks has a RnRC clone named Superman.

And this year SFGam is getting a spinning wildmouse (I am pretty sure it's the same track design).

 

[paulcmartens]

Six Flags...

Six Flags over Holland has Superman - The Ride. I started that thread a bit back:
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36105

Also:

http://www.rcdb.com/installationdetail769.htm

 

[maxime29]

RnRC is also a copy of "The Outer Limits" at Paramounts Kings Dominion and "Joker's Jinx" Six Flags America. All 3 use the same design.

 

[DarkMeasures]

Originally posted by maxime29
RnRC is also a copy of "The Outer Limits" at Paramounts Kings Dominion and "Joker's Jinx" Six Flags America. All 3 use the same design.

No, Outer Limits and Joker's Jinx is made by Premier Rides and have a completly different track design than RnRC. The only siniliarity between the two track designs are the propulsion system and how the track is bunch up in a knot.

Vekoma made only Superman and RnRC and they also have another unbuilt model that is more like Intamin's California screamin but with more inversions.

I fixed this for everyone. Anyway, I just looked it up and what the guy is saying below me is true.

 

[Coasterbp]

Originally posted by DarkMeasures
No, Outer Limits and Joker's Jinx is made by Intimin and have a completly different track design than RnRC. The only siniliarity between the two track designs are the propulsion system and how the track is bunch up in a knot.

Vekoma made only Superman and RnRC (California Screamin?) and they also have another unbuilt model that is more like California screamin (but it's not the same track design)

NO, Outer Limits and Joker's Jinx were designed and built by Premier Rides, the same company providing the ride system for Revenge of the Mummy at the Universal Parks.

Superman and RnRC WERE made by Vekoma. California Screamin' was built by Intamin.

 

[paulcmartens]

thanks...

thanks Coasterbp...just was about to clarify.

 

[Lee]

Originally posted by paulcmartens
so how does splitting up the family for different rides make it a 'family' park? Wow, there's 'togetherness'.

Here is a flaw in that argument.

It doesn't take into account singles, young adults, and adults without children. I am 35, married, do not and will not have kids.
Should I be forced to go to Six Flags to ride a thrilling ride once in a while? Should Disney only build rides if they will be for families with kids?

I think not. ToT, RnRC, MissionSpace, and Everest all serve a different demographic than HM or PotC.
Different, yes. Less important or less deserving of rides, no.
WDI has done a fantastic service by creating rides for all segments of their audience, from kids to adults. Bravo.

Oh, and HK Space Mountain layout is identical to Disneylands. It is using the updated structure, so it looks a bit different in photos.

 

[se8472]

Man I don't see why some of you want to change space to something else. She is the best thing at the MK. If you want crazy rides head over to the other parks.

It is the worst thing is the world to have to turn people away because there kids can ride everything BUT space because there are 1/2 inch to short....

The ride is not SUPPOST to be all crazy like. MK is not SUPPOST to have all crazy like rides. THe jurking and everything else NEEDS to be in there. And besides I would never hold my breath on space getting any major changes any time soon. As long as them lines still strech out the door, our space will be there to let them meet the edge of the galaxy, at the edge of there seats.

 

[sissa216]

Originally posted by se8472
As long as them lines still strech out the door, our space will be there to let them meet the edge of the galaxy, at the edge of there seats.

I couldn't agree more. Space Mountain is a classic, and that's why people line up to ride it. They want to ride the classic.
Disney is not about thrill rides, especially the MK. Its about putting guests in the magic. The Haunted Mansion's not that scary or thrilling, yet people don't attack it and try to change it to make it for adults. I think its great that SMs around the world are completey different; they're unique, and it gives us something to talk about :animwink:

 

[se8472]

Originally posted by sissa216
I couldn't agree more. Space Mountain is a classic, and that's why people line up to ride it. They want to ride the classic.
Disney is not about thrill rides, especially the MK. Its about putting guests in the magic. The Haunted Mansion's not that scary or thrilling, yet people don't attack it and try to change it to make it for adults. I think its great that SMs around the world are completey different; they're unique, and it gives us something to talk about :animwink:

Yes, I agree with you as well. :slurp:. Now maybe one day we will have to say goodbye to our space but I don't think that will be before kids are tall enought to ride.

But you are right before, that building NEEDS a dusting like nobodies mama

 

[sissa216]

Originally posted by se8472
let them meet the edge of the galaxy, at the edge of there seats.

Hey that's good- you should put that on a t-shirt lol