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Space Mountain
- Thread starter PeterAlt
- Start date
paulcmartens
Account Suspended
Peter...
When did you last ride it? They recently re did all the tubing...its nice now...still stern...but its a smooth ride.
When did you last ride it? They recently re did all the tubing...its nice now...still stern...but its a smooth ride.
Shaman
Well-Known Member
With the space they have at WDW...they (WDI) should be able to create the best Space Mountain of all Disney parks...maybe even continue to have the same two different track layout....a launch would be awesome and loops is what I've been wanting for a long time, the trains are the worse part of the ride...the attraction as a whole should be more like the Paris' version and even better...I agree with Lee...WDW's SM needs to be updated completely....
Lee
Adventurer
You're right.
It needs to be THE thrill ride. The ride to end all rides.
Many people on these boards are too young to remember when Space Mountain had the reputation as the perhaps the best and most famous coaster in the country.
If someone wene to WDW, the first thing you asked when they got back was "Did you ride Space Mountain"? As in, were you brave enough? Was it as awesome as we hear?
It's reputation was equivalent to X or Mill. Force today. It was the pinacle, the king of coasters.
Sadly, it has lost that entirely. The ride is terrible and the theming too weak to make up for it.
I say again, Paris has it all: great story, great themeing inside the ride (you fly through meteors!), and the track is thrilling enough to give the ride some respect.
As for what I said about DL's, I was thinking of DL's in it's prime, back in about 1998. New paint job, working sound, more thrilling track. Yeah the station was weak, and didn't fit with the theme of the land, but it was OK.
Also, it's one of my big peeves, too, when people compare Matterhorn to Space Mtn. All they have in common is the twin track, similar trains, and similar narrow-gauge track.
DarkMeasures
New Member
Re: Re: Space Mountain
Actually, by looking at Honk Kong's tracks, I believe it is a brand new design. It's just done in the style of Disneyland's. But I could be wrong.
But there are other places a cool enclosed ride could be built. Animal Kingom is screaming for more rides like a Howler Monkey. and epcot has a cool future like theme but you would have to make the ride educational.
Actually, by looking at Honk Kong's tracks, I believe it is a brand new design. It's just done in the style of Disneyland's. But I could be wrong.
But there are other places a cool enclosed ride could be built. Animal Kingom is screaming for more rides like a Howler Monkey. and epcot has a cool future like theme but you would have to make the ride educational.
paulcmartens
Account Suspended
Just how is 'X' have a reputation for 'thrill'?
To me, living here in california, X has the reputation of being
a) broken down
b) a bold arrow experiment which rarely is up
and c) a clever but soon to be dated gimmick.
SFMM is dull in that the rides are all the same...thrill rides.
Disney was never about 'the thrill ride'. He was about an immersive experience, a story and your participation in it.
Think 'Pirates' (disneyland) as being the quintessential disney ride...and your attitude shifts about the RNR's, test tracks and maelstroms.
Even Tower of Terror isn't very Disney in my opinion. The imagineers were lazy. They saw the technology of the freefall ride system and were trying to come up with a theme that would make it work. They did things backwards (but, they did a pretty good 'ride').
Lee...if you want a 'ride' that's cool...and frankly, I need my fix of adrenaline every so often (Riddlers Revenge) too.
But if we want Disney to be 'Disney' we have to forget about the technology, that is the last thing that should be on the minds of the imagineer...first is an idea, then we create a technology to fit.
This might not make a lot of people on this board happy because I'm anti 'thrill'...but I just don't see that word in 'theme park'. You want thrills, go to a six flags..and while your there realize that that park is for pure thrill...which is o.k...but also realize that's what Disney did not like...he didn't like the gangs (SFMM - notorious for that)..he wanted a family park.
Now I don't have kids yet...but I can imagine Walt not wanting to have his parks filled with thrill rides, because he wanted his young daughters to be able to ride together with him.
DCA was to be the first 'adult' park according to Eisner. This is just not Walt Disney...sorry. Nothing against Eisner personally...he just doesn't know you can't treat the Walt Disney Company like a business...it isn't...its a place of invention based on ideas.
ANd that's it, pretty simple, but if you don't get it you'll mess it up....and get a DCA
To me, living here in california, X has the reputation of being
a) broken down
b) a bold arrow experiment which rarely is up
and c) a clever but soon to be dated gimmick.
SFMM is dull in that the rides are all the same...thrill rides.
Disney was never about 'the thrill ride'. He was about an immersive experience, a story and your participation in it.
Think 'Pirates' (disneyland) as being the quintessential disney ride...and your attitude shifts about the RNR's, test tracks and maelstroms.
Even Tower of Terror isn't very Disney in my opinion. The imagineers were lazy. They saw the technology of the freefall ride system and were trying to come up with a theme that would make it work. They did things backwards (but, they did a pretty good 'ride').
Lee...if you want a 'ride' that's cool...and frankly, I need my fix of adrenaline every so often (Riddlers Revenge) too.
But if we want Disney to be 'Disney' we have to forget about the technology, that is the last thing that should be on the minds of the imagineer...first is an idea, then we create a technology to fit.
This might not make a lot of people on this board happy because I'm anti 'thrill'...but I just don't see that word in 'theme park'. You want thrills, go to a six flags..and while your there realize that that park is for pure thrill...which is o.k...but also realize that's what Disney did not like...he didn't like the gangs (SFMM - notorious for that)..he wanted a family park.
Now I don't have kids yet...but I can imagine Walt not wanting to have his parks filled with thrill rides, because he wanted his young daughters to be able to ride together with him.
DCA was to be the first 'adult' park according to Eisner. This is just not Walt Disney...sorry. Nothing against Eisner personally...he just doesn't know you can't treat the Walt Disney Company like a business...it isn't...its a place of invention based on ideas.
ANd that's it, pretty simple, but if you don't get it you'll mess it up....and get a DCA
DarkMeasures
New Member
But Paulcmartens, you were basically describing a kiddy park. Disney is aimed towards everyone so there are going to be kiddy rides, thrill rides, and the stuff in between.
The parks were ment to provide everyone with a great and memorable experience. And Tower of Terror started with, "Wouldn't it be cool if you were in a hotel hotel elevator and the cable broke?".
But remember, Walt Disney was at a kiddy park dreaming of a much better way to spend quality time. One where he could ride what he wants and what his daughters want and be able to spend a fun day together.
The parks were ment to provide everyone with a great and memorable experience. And Tower of Terror started with, "Wouldn't it be cool if you were in a hotel hotel elevator and the cable broke?".
But remember, Walt Disney was at a kiddy park dreaming of a much better way to spend quality time. One where he could ride what he wants and what his daughters want and be able to spend a fun day together.
paulcmartens
Account Suspended
according to Marty Sklar et al.
Well, when Disneyland opened...it pretty much was geared towards the kids and was a kiddy land...Walt created a place so kids could have fun, and parents felt the environment (unlike a midway) safe enough for everyone to attend and feel comfortable. Rides were tame physically (Mr. Toad's ride was just plain scary psychologically, not abrupt).
Many of walt's 'rides' including Haunted Mansion and Pirates started out as walk throughs. When a lot of money was poured into projects, the vehicle technology or track still remained secondary or tertiary, it was the environment that was important. The robots, the staging the singing etc. placed primary important (think Pirates, Disneyland).
It sounds like you just want a ride, with good theming...that's backwards, to Walt Disney's standards when he was alive.
If you look at the original roster of rides that Disneyland opened with, I guarantee you, as an adult, you wouldn't have really wanted to go. The park's purpose was for his two daughters. And it was a backlash against the midway means of entertaining the youth.
And you have it wrong, Disney was never about, 'Dianne I'm going on this ride here...you wait with Mom, till I get back, and then we can go on King Arthurs carousel. Disneyland, under Walt was all kiddy rides, or rides meant for kids first, adults second.
Its only been in the last 20 years especially that 'adult' came into Disney...first with Epcot; 'adult' was veiled in the form of 'educationional' all the way up to DCA where 'Adult' comes to you in the form of alcohol availability and late hours (or at least attempted...Mondavi and Puck pulled out, and the hours were cut back...the adult theme park was an oxymoron and didn't work.
If you want a young adult or teen park...go to Six Flags or IOA. Those are great for that, and I love those parks for what they offer...but if you want to argue for what Walt did...look at the parks when Walt was alive, not what they are now.
Also, check your research...(like page 163 of the Walt Disney Imagineering book...behind the dreams) TOT did not originate with 'what happens when a cable breaks'...it was principally about the technology Six Flags had that disney was not utilizing at the time. They loved the thrill factor...but they needed a theme.
I purport that this is not how walt thought or came up with ideas, he was far more inventive, far more of a maverick.
Well, when Disneyland opened...it pretty much was geared towards the kids and was a kiddy land...Walt created a place so kids could have fun, and parents felt the environment (unlike a midway) safe enough for everyone to attend and feel comfortable. Rides were tame physically (Mr. Toad's ride was just plain scary psychologically, not abrupt).
Many of walt's 'rides' including Haunted Mansion and Pirates started out as walk throughs. When a lot of money was poured into projects, the vehicle technology or track still remained secondary or tertiary, it was the environment that was important. The robots, the staging the singing etc. placed primary important (think Pirates, Disneyland).
It sounds like you just want a ride, with good theming...that's backwards, to Walt Disney's standards when he was alive.
If you look at the original roster of rides that Disneyland opened with, I guarantee you, as an adult, you wouldn't have really wanted to go. The park's purpose was for his two daughters. And it was a backlash against the midway means of entertaining the youth.
And you have it wrong, Disney was never about, 'Dianne I'm going on this ride here...you wait with Mom, till I get back, and then we can go on King Arthurs carousel. Disneyland, under Walt was all kiddy rides, or rides meant for kids first, adults second.
Its only been in the last 20 years especially that 'adult' came into Disney...first with Epcot; 'adult' was veiled in the form of 'educationional' all the way up to DCA where 'Adult' comes to you in the form of alcohol availability and late hours (or at least attempted...Mondavi and Puck pulled out, and the hours were cut back...the adult theme park was an oxymoron and didn't work.
If you want a young adult or teen park...go to Six Flags or IOA. Those are great for that, and I love those parks for what they offer...but if you want to argue for what Walt did...look at the parks when Walt was alive, not what they are now.
Also, check your research...(like page 163 of the Walt Disney Imagineering book...behind the dreams) TOT did not originate with 'what happens when a cable breaks'...it was principally about the technology Six Flags had that disney was not utilizing at the time. They loved the thrill factor...but they needed a theme.
I purport that this is not how walt thought or came up with ideas, he was far more inventive, far more of a maverick.
Lee
Adventurer
I totally reject the idea that Disney can't have world class thrill rides.
That is exactly what Space Mountain, Matterhorn, Paris SM, ToT, etc. were intended to be. And all are excellent examples of the art of Imagineering.
Space Mountain and Matterhorn were Walt's ideas. He fully intended for them to be thrilling rides, and ones that not everyone would enjoy. Nothing wrong with that.
Disney is the park with SOMETHING for everyone...
Not the park with EVERYTHING for everyone.
That is exactly what Space Mountain, Matterhorn, Paris SM, ToT, etc. were intended to be. And all are excellent examples of the art of Imagineering.
Space Mountain and Matterhorn were Walt's ideas. He fully intended for them to be thrilling rides, and ones that not everyone would enjoy. Nothing wrong with that.
Disney is the park with SOMETHING for everyone...
Not the park with EVERYTHING for everyone.
Lee
Adventurer
Because it does. I rode it and was plenty thrilled. Sure it breaks down a lot, but it is a great idea that may be perfected one day.
Plus, show a video of it to an average person. They freak out.
Yeah, baby. Riddlers is by far the best stand-up in the world.
SFMM sucks though. Know what I thought the whole time I was there...."Let's leave now and miss the traffic on the 5 down to Anaheim."
Shaman
Well-Known Member
Re: according to Marty Sklar et al.
Times have indeed changed, and well to survive Disney HAS to change with those times. Its unfair to compare the parks today with those of the past, times were a bit more "innocent" then, nowadays animatronics alone won't thrill the average person...this has alot to do, I think, with all technological advances and all the forms of entertainment people have today (entertainment which all Disney parks compete with).
I do not think Walt's primary focus was on KIDS, rather his primary focus was on FAMILY. Rides back then seem kiddie because today rides are bigger and more thrilling, ten to twenty and thirty years from now that opinion will change because attractions will only get better, faster more thrilling....
Disney was the first to build the tubular steel coaster (Matterhorn). Such innovation and creativity was what the company was known for...Disney pushed the envelope....and to say that we would consider those coasters dull today, is simply because better things have come since then....back in those days Matterhorn, Space Mountain were THE coasters...and that should be true today....
Hence the reason, Space Mountain, I think, should be completely updated (adding better, innovative effects, tracks, cars)....just my opinion....
Times have indeed changed, and well to survive Disney HAS to change with those times. Its unfair to compare the parks today with those of the past, times were a bit more "innocent" then, nowadays animatronics alone won't thrill the average person...this has alot to do, I think, with all technological advances and all the forms of entertainment people have today (entertainment which all Disney parks compete with).
I do not think Walt's primary focus was on KIDS, rather his primary focus was on FAMILY. Rides back then seem kiddie because today rides are bigger and more thrilling, ten to twenty and thirty years from now that opinion will change because attractions will only get better, faster more thrilling....
Disney was the first to build the tubular steel coaster (Matterhorn). Such innovation and creativity was what the company was known for...Disney pushed the envelope....and to say that we would consider those coasters dull today, is simply because better things have come since then....back in those days Matterhorn, Space Mountain were THE coasters...and that should be true today....
Hence the reason, Space Mountain, I think, should be completely updated (adding better, innovative effects, tracks, cars)....just my opinion....
DarkMeasures
New Member
But SpaceMountain is still THE COASTER.
paulcmartens
Account Suspended
my point in all this ranting is...the TOT's the RNR's..and some of the comments here seem to point to an attitude in imaginneering that is...oh, there's technology out there that we aren't using...quick, build a ride.
All I'm saying, is that's backwards and very unoriginal way to do imagineering. Yes TOT has firsts, and its super impressive...but they are (and some of you folks on board) are saying, lets have better thrills.
As per family...fine, but if I had a family...RNR still wouldn't be a 'family' attraction...because by the time any kid COULD ride the attraction...they could do it on their own with their teen friends.
Times do change, and they don't. Disney has gotten very corporate and thinks the world is a competitive arena for thrills.
That's their own doing, not that 'the times have changed'...that's called, putting business types in leadership, and not creative types.
All I'm saying, is that's backwards and very unoriginal way to do imagineering. Yes TOT has firsts, and its super impressive...but they are (and some of you folks on board) are saying, lets have better thrills.
As per family...fine, but if I had a family...RNR still wouldn't be a 'family' attraction...because by the time any kid COULD ride the attraction...they could do it on their own with their teen friends.
Times do change, and they don't. Disney has gotten very corporate and thinks the world is a competitive arena for thrills.
That's their own doing, not that 'the times have changed'...that's called, putting business types in leadership, and not creative types.
DarkMeasures
New Member
I don't think 7 year olds are Teenagers.
paulcmartens
Account Suspended
...
There are very few seven year olds that ride that ride. My goodness...I'm in my twenties and I shy away from RNR and TOT. Those attractions even scare most adults.
When I was in line...I saw far less kids, toddlers than say, dumbo.
My argument here is about thrill ruling the parks.
Maybe I'm not using the right language...fear plays a huge role with Disney, but thrill is only a sub element.
There are very few seven year olds that ride that ride. My goodness...I'm in my twenties and I shy away from RNR and TOT. Those attractions even scare most adults.
When I was in line...I saw far less kids, toddlers than say, dumbo.
My argument here is about thrill ruling the parks.
Maybe I'm not using the right language...fear plays a huge role with Disney, but thrill is only a sub element.
DarkMeasures
New Member
you kidding? Little kids love thrill rides. The only person I knew who was afraid to ride when they could was my little sister.
But I have seen so many kids on those rides compared to you.
But I have seen so many kids on those rides compared to you.
paulcmartens
Account Suspended
so, there are more kids per adult ratio in a RNR and TOT than say, a dumbo or snowhite scary adventures.
DarkMeasures
New Member
No, because:
1. There are kids too short for ToT and RRC
2. The kid's parents might be too scared to take them on.
3. Usually on first trips the kids only go to Magic Kingdom.
4. A lot more adults ride RRC and ToT than the Fantasyland rides.
1. There are kids too short for ToT and RRC
2. The kid's parents might be too scared to take them on.
3. Usually on first trips the kids only go to Magic Kingdom.
4. A lot more adults ride RRC and ToT than the Fantasyland rides.
paulcmartens
Account Suspended
I guess what I'm trying to say, and darkmeasures you are proving my point...is that the parks are gearing towards more adult things these days...and that's shying away from what Walt originally wanted.
Times don't change. Families are families, little kids are little kids. And kids GENERALLY get scared by the RNR's and TOT (I got freaked by TOT...only rode it once).
The only reason why I'll be there at DCA's TOT is that I hear its tamer. Otherwise, I wouldn't ride it.
If you guys want Disney's Parks to be more adult...fine...but look at the SFMM's or other 'thrill parks'.
Times don't change. Families are families, little kids are little kids. And kids GENERALLY get scared by the RNR's and TOT (I got freaked by TOT...only rode it once).
The only reason why I'll be there at DCA's TOT is that I hear its tamer. Otherwise, I wouldn't ride it.
If you guys want Disney's Parks to be more adult...fine...but look at the SFMM's or other 'thrill parks'.
Legacy
Well-Known Member
But if the thrill rides weren't there for the teens and adults we wouldn't have a 'family' park. You have to remember that Walt was watching his girls on a carousel when he decided the world needed a park that everybody would enjoy. The adults I see getting in line for Dumbo have the kids with them. The adults don't care about the ride, they want more. That is why we now have rides with height limits and thrills. It's because Disney knows that in order to succeed the adults HAVE to be entertained. The teens and adults in line for RnRC and ToT are the ones spending money, not the kids in line for Dumbo.