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Space Mountain/Tomorrowland Transit Authority update...
- Thread starter Mr.EPCOT
- Start date
imagineer boy
Well-Known Member
It's not minority opinions that aren't accepted, it's common sense and logic. Oh...wait...I guess the fact that common sense and logic are EXTREMELY rare around here MAKES them part of the blanket description of "minority opinions."
Sorry for the mix-up!
There's no need for the bad attitude.
Hrudey3032
Well-Known Member
I better go find out :ROFLOL:
MousDad
New Member
Great, now that that's cleared up, have you met my friend jt04?
DisneyNut2007
Active Member
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
The problem comes when mandates come from above, "we need something to replace Alien Encounter, Kids should like it, It should include Stitch, and you have $8."
Nope, I'm pretty sure the Imagineers are the ones that are doing the horrible writing, sound design, and unreliable ride system "upgrades", which is basically the downfall of every project of the last 5 years. Having embarrassing dialogue on the TTA stating that the Carousel of Progress has four families has absolutely nothing to do with budgets. It's simple incompetence. Between the cringe-inducing script and the horrible sound quality, the imagineers are solely responsible for making yet another classic attraction unridable. See Spaceship Earth and the Backlot Tour for other examples. Then there's the Tower of Terror, whose audio was "upgraded" almost a year ago, yet has been horribly out of sync every since. Everything the imagineers touch, they screw up. It's really pretty simple.
Anticitizen One
New Member
I understand all that but at the same time you can't tell me that Stitch's great escape (2004) is as good as say, Country Bear jamboree (1970s) or that Expedition Everest (2006) is as well themed as Big Thunder Mountain (Im talking just the ride itself not the queue). They don't even make anything today that matches the engineering marvels that were the 1960s Tomorrowland, Spaceship Earth, Universe of Energy, etc.
Part of it is that the old imagineers have long since retired and the talented imagineers of the past twenty years have been phased out (fired) and over time the corporate culture has changed internally. Pretty much the only senior talent left at Imagineering is Tony Baxter, Joe R., and Bob Weiss and I have heard that Disney wants to get rid of two of those guys. The place is run by baffons now and on top of that they have parks & resorts controlling them with an iron fist.
ORG13
New Member
And you could do an amazing job?, come on seriously, your questioning Imagineers? Its more than just saying and creating it. They dont wave their hands and it magically appear. They have constraints as to what they can do. And they have to appeal to the masses most of the time, not us. I know its hard for some of you to hear this, but we do not make or break the company, new comers as well as regular guests do. We love the finer things, but we look to much into it. Disney respects us, but they need to do things to attract guests, and yes they love repeat visitors, but what the are really after is new guests.
ORG13
New Member
I understand all that but at the same time you can't tell me that Stitch's great escape (2004) is as good as say, Country Bear jamboree (1970s) or that Expedition Everest (2006) is as well themed as Big Thunder Mountain (Im talking just the ride itself not the queue). They don't even make anything today that matches the engineering marvels that were the 1960s Tomorrowland, Spaceship Earth, Universe of Energy, etc.
Part of it is that the old imagineers have long since retired and the talented imagineers of the past twenty years have been phased out (fired) and over time the corporate culture has changed internally. Pretty much the only senior talent left at Imagineering is Tony Baxter, Joe R., and Bob Weiss and I have heard that Disney wants to get rid of two of those guys. The place is run by baffons now and on top of that they have parks & resorts controlling them with an iron fist.[/QUOTE]
The baffons you speak of is coparate disney correct? Imagineers are extremly talanted and eduacated people. They are like puppets on a string though. If Imagineers got an unlimated budget they could do wonders, but with what they get they still do an amazing job.
O and no Im not saying Stitch is on par with those great attractions, I dont think I ever said that. But in no way is it a horrible attraction either, the only resentment people have is that it took over AE. It is the same exact ride just "supposedly" less scary for kids. Which I can argue is false because of the amount of screaming kids i see on that ride. I miss X-S though, and can live without stitch
With the way things are now, things get cut and taken out of original creations. The final pieces are almost always not at all what the Imagineers first invisioned. All i can say is welcome to the real world and that money motivates everything. We (ones that enjoy the parks for theming, bgm... ect.) are just a small portion in the wealth the disney company generates
Anticitizen One
New Member
I was actually refering to Bruce Vaughn who insists that interactivity is what the guests want and is just ramming this tech into the parks without any rhyme or reason (look at milf).
I was also refering to Tom Fitzgerald who, given even the most lavish budgets, will still produce a ride consisting entirely of video screens, dialogue written for the 90s nickelodean crowd, and probably a few celebrity apperances.
O and no Im not saying Stitch is on par with those great attractions, I dont think I ever said that. But in no way is it a horrible attraction either, the only resentment people have is that it took over AE. It is the same exact ride just "supposedly" less scary for kids. Which I can argue is false because of the amount of screaming kids i see on that ride. I miss X-S though
AE was alright I don't really care that its gone but what I do care about is that Stitch is a very poor attraction and in a subtle way hurts Disney's image. It is poorly written, the effects are terrible, and the chilli dog smell grosses just about everyone out. They really should just drop the stitch theme and start from scratch with an original concept for that building.
Anticitizen One
New Member
I agree 100%
Although I should point out to you that the Carousel of Progress having four families line has always been part of the narration on the peoplemover with the exception of the TTA script which ran from 1994-2009.
MousDad
New Member
ryno1982, ORG13 and Anticitizen One:
While very entertaining, your charade is not fooling anyone. Your coordinated troll infestation is obvious. Do you guys have the guts to say who you are and what forum you hail from?
There's a guy named mousermerf over at LP who came down with a sudden projectile effusion of anti-WDI rhetoric this week. Either of you guys ever met him (like in the mirror)?
While very entertaining, your charade is not fooling anyone. Your coordinated troll infestation is obvious. Do you guys have the guts to say who you are and what forum you hail from?
There's a guy named mousermerf over at LP who came down with a sudden projectile effusion of anti-WDI rhetoric this week. Either of you guys ever met him (like in the mirror)?
I acknowledge that WDI is heavily constrained by skimpy budgets and executive meddling in the creative process, but WDI could make some great attractions for less money if they cut out the waste that goes on there.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
O and no Im not saying Stitch is on par with those great attractions, I dont think I ever said that. But in no way is it a horrible attraction either, the only resentment people have is that it took over AE. It is the same exact ride just "supposedly" less scary for kids. Which I can argue is false because of the amount of screaming kids i see on that ride. I miss X-S though
With the way things are now, things get cut and taken out of original creations. The final pieces are almost always not at all what the Imagineers first invisioned. All i can say is welcome to the real world and that money motivates everything. We (ones that enjoy the parks for theming, bgm... ect.) are just a small portion in the wealth the disney company generates
I think there is something to be said about the way things used to be run, and the way things are run now. As the current incarnation of Journey into Imagination states, "Imagination works best when it's set free." I feel that this hasn't been the case for several years now and so many creative people are working to be creative within certain restrictions.
This is also accurate. There's a lot of crap that goes thrown into an attraction's budget. Things like paint colors being changed, and everyone wanting to have their hand in an attraction creates inflated budgets.
dweezil78
Well-Known Member
You all seem to be forgetting one very important key ingredient... Walt Disney. Although Walt passed in 1966, the company did whatever it could to live up to Walt's ideals for quite a while after -- especially since much of the core Imagineering staff had worked for him personally and felt like they owed him as much. With Walt, budgets were never an issue. With Walt it was more a matter of always wanting to do the impossible, with the belief that when that was accomplished, the guests would come and return his investment... and then some.
There's a wonderful interview with Ray Bradbury on the Tomorrowland DVD (Disney Treasures) that I encourage everyone to watch that touches on this mentality (and a lot more great stuff). In it, there's a great moment where Ray talks about how he found out Walt had included a replica spire from Notre Dame in Paris on Sleeping Beauty castle -- simply because he loved it.
"That's why I love Walt Disney. It cost $100,000 to build a spire you didn't need. The secret of Disney is doing things you don't need and doing them well... and then you realize, you needed them all along."
Ahh, the things a company could accomplish when they only had 1 man with a vision to report to.
There's a wonderful interview with Ray Bradbury on the Tomorrowland DVD (Disney Treasures) that I encourage everyone to watch that touches on this mentality (and a lot more great stuff). In it, there's a great moment where Ray talks about how he found out Walt had included a replica spire from Notre Dame in Paris on Sleeping Beauty castle -- simply because he loved it.
"That's why I love Walt Disney. It cost $100,000 to build a spire you didn't need. The secret of Disney is doing things you don't need and doing them well... and then you realize, you needed them all along."
Ahh, the things a company could accomplish when they only had 1 man with a vision to report to.
mickey2008.1
Well-Known Member
dweezil78
Good point about reporting to the man who started it all and his budget constraints, or lack thereof. Interesting facts you stated, where can one get this dvd you mentioned?
Good point about reporting to the man who started it all and his budget constraints, or lack thereof. Interesting facts you stated, where can one get this dvd you mentioned?
EPCOTPluto
Well-Known Member
http://www.amazon.com/Walt-Disney-T...ef=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1256929842&sr=8-1
Have been meaning to get it. One of the more intriguing of the series.