SPACE MOUNTAIN- I assure you, we are SOFT re-OPEN!!!

[Mr.EPCOT]

On the other hand, if Epcot became EPCOT Center again overnight, they'd lose the general public. I hate to admit this as much as any Disney fan, but you know it's true.

That depends on how you define EPCOT Center. If you mean bringing it back exactly as it was between 1982-1994, of course you're going to lose the general public. But I think most of us feel that EPCOT Center is a concept currently unfulfilled, that could probably be quite successful. Epcot is just a theme park, and a thematic mess of one at that.

 

[moreno]

In a way Disney may take fans' thoughts into account, but I think their interpretation of what we want is completely wrong. It's painfully obvious they keep putting Easter eggs in the attractions to make good will toward fans, such as the mark VII monorail and the "great big beautiful tomorrow" in SSE's descent, or the Horizons reference in Space Mountain. But they're missing the big picture, which is that any decent Epcot fan would have serious issues with the descent regardless of what hidden Disney references they used, and every Disney fan knows how great DL's Space Mountain is.

In Disney's defense, why should they accommodate fans when our demands are higher and pretty much out of sync with the brainless masses? They can create pure crap, and we will still go, even if it's just to complain. On the other hand, if Epcot became EPCOT Center again overnight, they'd lose the general public. I hate to admit this as much as any Disney fan, but you know it's true.

"Disney" is a giant machine made of many parts. Often on these boards, the company is discussed as though its efforts are the result of some master plan. But in reality, the opposite is probably true. Im sure there arent any board room meetings with agenda items such as "How to insert an extinct attraction reference to cover our mistakes."

 

[WDW1974]

I'm not talking down to anybody. Is it an opinion to state that Disney is capable of producing a much better product than they have been recently? I'm only going by what they conditioned me to expect out of them growing up. If what they do now makes some people satisfied, then I am truly happy for those people. But I am personally saddened by not seeing Disney live up to its previous standards.

Yes, you ARE talking down to people. Don't you get it?

It's only YOUR opinion that Disney can and has produced a better product than what it offers now in FLA. And when you REPEAT it, you are shoving it down folks' throats. You obviously HATE Disney.

If you are saddened by Disney then you should go spend your money at UNIVERSAL so they'll be less lines at Space Mountain for ME!!!

The above was entirely tongue in cheek, but represents a certain large segment of the MAGICal audience here. ... Um, in case you wondered, I'm not among them.

Mr. EPCOT's post was quite on target.:xmas::xmas::xmas:

 

[WDW1974]

Watching the Jeff Lange video, I noticed a Horizons homage on one of the suitcases in the postshow's baggage claim, a sticker for Mesa Verde. Not sure whether or not this is new though. I like what they've added to the postshow, gives it more of a Horizons feel.

On a different subject, I've often wondered why/how Disney allows Jeff (and possibly others, he is just the most well-known) to sell videos of their parks and products.

If I take photos in their parks and attempt to sell them as art or postcards or whatever, I'm reasonably certain some of Disney's Magical Legal Team will be phoning ... yet Jeff sells DVDs to foaming fanbois at what? ... $30 a pop.

Very strange.
:xmas::xmas::xmas:

 

[Mansion Butler]

I just thought the way it was worded was a little harsh. No big deal, really.

I happen to agree that the quality has slipped. That being said, they still offer a higher standard than any other park I've been to, but seeing it slip from it's original glory is a little sad. The lights of winter hurts more than anything, though. That just seems pointless. The SM rehab budget cuts have reasons behind them. I may not like it, but I understand it more than the smaller things.

This, I think, is one of the more rational posts. I can be sad that Disney World isn't what I would like it to be and still happier there than anywhere else like it.

Like Space Mountain. I am really happy about the refurb, even if I know it could have been more. These are not conflicting emotions at all.

(And, btw, I am probably happier than most because I like the coaster [wish it was smoother, though] and don't want on-board audio, so yeah.)

 

[the-reason14]

And there's certainly nothing wrong with that. Just realize that you are being pleased by Disney making a bare minimum effort, when you compare it to their business practices for many decades. Fantasyland will be nice, I'm sure, but to say it consists of several new additions is a little bit of a stretch. One new ride, just one. A relocated, expanded ride. A couple of new eateries, which the park has needed, anyways, for years. A couple themed meet and greets, and probably a lot of nice landscaping. All good stuff, but remember that Disney has the ability to do this on a park-wide scale, which the Magic Kingdom could certainly use. Space Mountain, while still lots of fun, has not been brought into this century. Unless there is something particularly ultra-modern about being darker. Once again, they were capable of much, much more, but just did the bare minimum to keep the ride operational, and essentially just did what they could with the queue and exit areas in the short span of that time allotted. So if you're happy with that, that's fine for you, but there are many of us who want to see Walt Disney World resume meeting and exceeding its potential like what used to be the standard.

But what I don't understand is what else could they have done to Space mt. to bring it into this century? I mean, other than maybe onboard audio and maybe changing the scenery on the lift hill, I cant really think of what else they could do. They could have gutted it, but thats destroying a classic and unneccessary imo.

Onboard audio could enhance the experience, but I dont see that as bringing it into this century any more or less than darkening the ride and sprucing up the que does. It works in DL, and I guess DLP, but I cant see it working as well in WDW. But in all, I respect the viewpoint that WDW could have done more because after watching a vid, Im starting to think that too.

 

[Matpez]

On a different subject, I've often wondered why/how Disney allows Jeff (and possibly others, he is just the most well-known) to sell videos of their parks and products.

If I take photos in their parks and attempt to sell them as art or postcards or whatever, I'm reasonably certain some of Disney's Magical Legal Team will be phoning ... yet Jeff sells DVDs to foaming fanbois at what? ... $30 a pop.

Very strange.

Yes... But a fan produced video to celebrate a big anniversary at a park attended by thousands and wanted to be seen by thousands more... I'm lucky they let me give it away at this point.

This thread is so far off topic.

 

[whylightbulb]

Sigh. I wish Imagineering wasn't that focused with the drawing aspect. I can come up with the fantastic ideas and sketch them - but nothing professionally done to be claimed as "art". Is there such a position of "Concept Designer" that doesn't require the physical drawing aspect? (probably not, but might as well ask)

My dream is to become an Imagineer and I have probably nearly 50 designs---er--sketches and ideas concepted all the way from 3 theme parks, several overlays, a couple of pyrotechnic shows, interactive attractions, dark rides, and basic ride refurbs. I'm planning on going into Digital Graphic Design in College out in CA and someday down the road end up at Imagineering.

Well I'm in the giving mood today and since I have tons of good advice in this area I'll go ahead and give it to you, even though you didn't ask for it. I've been a theme park designer for over 20 years (WDI, Universal, Landmark, my own company etc.) and I've seen hundreds of people come and go. Most don't last in this industry these days. Getting a full time position with WDI or UC is extremely difficult. For most projects they will hire freelancers or consultants that understand they will be let go after that particular project is complete. There is a core group at UC and a larger one at WDI but it's more than challenging, not to mention political, to be counted among them.

WDI receives hundreds, if not thousands, of resumes every month from hopefuls that have dreams of becoming an Imagineer. Others just apply because they think it would be a cool job. Others are recruited. The bottom line is that you have to stand out from all that competition if you do indeed have what it takes. Of course there is another, easier way to get in but I won't talk too much about that on these boards. Unfortunately I'm not kidding about that last sentence and many undeserving hacks have weaseled their way in using this "unsavory" method. Not so much in the technical fields but especially in creative.

Just having "good" ideas and sketching them out is only the beginning. How do you stand out as a talented concept designer? A good concept designer not only can communicate his or her ideas verbally but must be able to paint a clear picture with their words. They must also be able to sell their ideas to many people, all of whom have different "hot buttons". They should be able to communicate and pitch to engineers, accountants, managers and executives etc. They should be proficient in several drawing mediums. They must be extremely proficient in color theory, presentation, story, style and countless other design disciplines. They should have a firm grasp on history and period styles and customs. They should have more than a basic knowledge of architecture, mechanical and structural engineering as well as specialized technologies...whew!!!

That list is not meant to scare you. Many dreamers that are good at drawing and have some good ideas think that's all they need to stand out at WDI. This simply is not true. Like I said earlier, either you are good at the "political" game and you need that to get in or you truly have the talent and knowledge. The ideal situation would be that you learn how to network, get good at politics and acquire the skills listed above. Unfortunately there are very few truly qualified designers working at WDI. There are plenty out in the marketplace but they haven't learned the political aspects and so they struggle. Believe me I can give you countless stories of untalented hacks that continue to move up the ranks while the most amazing talents get laid off or can't find a project to work on. Get good at politics. Seriously, don't forget that aspect of your education.

 

[tirian]

Whylightbulb, I've heard of that "unsavory" method, and am sorry to say it happens in many Fortune 100 companies.

Back to Space Mt:

Having finally experienced it, I can say that although it isn't the home-run spectacle it could have been, the refurb is satisfactory for the short closure. I was pleased to see how much was accomplished in such a short time. The re-entry tunnel is still dated, but that's the only portion of the entire attraction that was untouched.

 

[Mr.EPCOT]

But what I don't understand is what else could they have done to Space mt. to bring it into this century? I mean, other than maybe onboard audio and maybe changing the scenery on the lift hill, I cant really think of what else they could do. They could have gutted it, but thats destroying a classic and unneccessary imo.

Onboard audio could enhance the experience, but I dont see that as bringing it into this century any more or less than darkening the ride and sprucing up the que does. It works in DL, and I guess DLP, but I cant see it working as well in WDW. But in all, I respect the viewpoint that WDW could have done more because after watching a vid, Im starting to think that too.

Well, a big way would have been to change the launch and re-entry tunnels, sounds like there was an amazing effect planned that Martin described earlier. I'm sure there's lots of different advanced effects that could be added to the lift hill. Beyond that, check out Nightmare Nebula and Rock It Mountain. Certainly overlays weren't viable until recent years, and they could add an exciting twist on the classic that so many have ridden over the years.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

That depends on how you define EPCOT Center. If you mean bringing it back exactly as it was between 1982-1994, of course you're going to lose the general public. But I think most of us feel that EPCOT Center is a concept currently unfulfilled, that could probably be quite successful. Epcot is just a theme park, and a thematic mess of one at that.

EXACTLY. Elevate the concept to today...don't change the fundamentals of it. Beautiful!:sohappy:

On a different subject, I've often wondered why/how Disney allows Jeff (and possibly others, he is just the most well-known) to sell videos of their parks and products.

If I take photos in their parks and attempt to sell them as art or postcards or whatever, I'm reasonably certain some of Disney's Magical Legal Team will be phoning ... yet Jeff sells DVDs to foaming fanbois at what? ... $30 a pop.

Very strange.
:xmas::xmas::xmas:

Oh....Geee....YOU wonder.:lookaroun:lol:

Whylightbulb, I've heard of that "unsavory" method, and am sorry to say it happens in many Fortune 100 companies.

Back to Space Mt:

Having finally experienced it, I can say that although it isn't the home-run spectacle it could have been, the refurb is satisfactory for the short closure. I was pleased to see how much was accomplished in such a short time. The re-entry tunnel is still dated, but that's the only portion of the entire attraction that was untouched.

Is 7-8 months really short? I felt that for this amount of time, if the money had been there, they could have at least fixed a lot of ride problems...

 

[Mr.EPCOT]

New article at the Orlando Sentinel- Space Mountain Rehab Illustrates Differing Approaches Of Disney World/Disneyland

There's a couple of interesting quotes, plus it says that there will eventually be four different queue games.

 

[whylightbulb]

Whylightbulb, I've heard of that "unsavory" method, and am sorry to say it happens in many Fortune 100 companies.

I know but for some reason many think that could never happen in the world of pixie dust.

 

[tirian]

I know but for some reason many think that could never happen in the world of pixie dust.

Yeah, it shocked me at first. People are people everywhere. :brick:

To completely change the subject, I can't wait to see what you've been up to!

 

[marni1971]

But what I don't understand is what else could they have done to Space mt. to bring it into this century? I mean, other than maybe onboard audio and maybe changing the scenery on the lift hill, I cant really think of what else they could do. They could have gutted it, but thats destroying a classic and unneccessary imo...

Plans were to build on a classic. Onboard score, linked to many new visuals. The blue tunnel effects I mentioned. Silent lifts. Overhauled lift hill scene. Many new projections throughout the ride, both on the ceiling and on new screens - some new, some cloned. All timed to the ride. Physical props. New end brake zone tunnel. More cohesive story. New cars, new smooth track, same layout.

Is there really any need to add video games to a line that moves quite well? One that in theory now will recover back to 102 far faster? Marketing think so.

There`s always tomorrow.

 

[tirian]

Plans were to build on a classic. Onboard score, linked to many new visuals. The blue tunnel effects I mentioned. Silent lifts. Overhauled lift hill scene. Many new projections throughout the ride, both on the ceiling and on new screens - some new, some cloned. All timed to the ride. Physical props. New end brake zone tunnel. More cohesive story. New cars, new smooth track, same layout.

Is there really any need to add video games to a line that moves quite well? One that in theory now will recover back to 102 far faster? Marketing think so.

There`s always tomorrow.

@*!#
I was choosing not to think about all that, and you had to remind me.

 

[whylightbulb]

Yeah, it shocked me at first. People are people everywhere. :brick:

To completely change the subject, I can't wait to see what you've been up to!

I'm looking forward to watching new riders discover the Potter attraction for the first time. I'm sure some will say the SM rehab was better than a new $100 plus million state-of-the-art dark ride but everyone is entitled to their opinion.:lol:

 

[Lee]

There`s always tomorrow.

Tell that to Beastlie.....

 

[MousDad]

New article at the Orlando Sentinel- Space Mountain Rehab Illustrates Differing Approaches Of Disney World/Disneyland

There's a couple of interesting quotes, plus it says that there will eventually be four different queue games.

Why does...

"though workers are expected to continue tweaking until mid-December"

...send chills down my spine?

 

[WDW1974]

Yes... But a fan produced video to celebrate a big anniversary at a park attended by thousands and wanted to be seen by thousands more... I'm lucky they let me give it away at this point.

This thread is so far off topic.

Yes. But I asked because I honestly wonder what the deal is.

I have a friend that is an amazing artist/photographer and is afraid to try and sell shots of lightposts at Disney in postcard form because of copyright issues.

Yet, Jeff has made a cottage industry out of selling what have to be very profitable DVDs that are all Disney's intellectual property.

What am I missing? :xmas::xmas::xmas: