SPACE MOUNTAIN- I assure you, we are SOFT re-OPEN!!!

Kuhio

Well-Known Member
Was the sound effect in sync yet? I rode several times 2 weeks ago and both Alpha and Omega were so out of sync the jet whine was inaudible and the boom came as you left the tube.
Personal opinion :p

The sound effect was out of sync, but not that much so -- the boom came toward the end of the tube. Yet another thing that should be further tweaked.
 

Kuhio

Well-Known Member
Most noticely the floor in the load area looked a litte sloppy IMHO. My partner does concrete finishing and he was really shocked at how poor the workmanship was with the floor in that area.

That was something else I noticed. The floor in the load area had the sparkly bits, but the texture seemed very uneven and unfinished. If it was supposed to be like that, they should have chosen a finishing that didn't make the floor look unintentionally sloppy or poorly done.
 

Kuhio

Well-Known Member
Technically, since space is weightless, the feeling of beeing in space would be ultimate smoothness. This would only change when you enter a major gravitational field.

And you know this because you've been in space?

Space Mountain isn't supposed to provide a realistic simulation of an actual trip to or through outer space. If it were, then all of the Space Mountains would be monumental failures. It would be akin to saying, "Technically, when you travel through space, you wouldn't just turn left and right, or travel at a speed of 30 miles per hour." (And how, "technically," does onboard audio provide a realistic sensation of being in space?)

Rather, Space Mountain is supposed to be evocative of a thrilling, high-speed journey through space -- something out of the realm of science-fiction. To me, the turbulence of WDW's Space Mountain perfectly evokes the feeling of a perilous space chase -- it echoes exciting scenes of space travel from many science-fiction movies and TV shows, from Star Wars to Star Trek. Maybe the turbulence is caused by weaving in and out of an asteroid field (flying into and out of numerous minor gravitational fields), or having bits of space debris ricochet off the ship's force field, or being struck by fire from a pursuing starfighter -- who knows? It really doesn't matter.

What does matter is that "roughness" is in no way inconsistent with the concept of fantasy space travel. If you don't like a bumpy ride simply because you find it uncomfortable, then that alone is reason enough for your opinion -- just don't try to justify it by saying that "space is smooth."
 

SirGoofy

Member
To me, the turbulence of WDW's Space Mountain perfectly evokes the feeling of a perilous space chase -- it echoes exciting scenes of space travel from many science-fiction movies and TV shows, from Star Wars to Star Trek.

You know what else said chases have?

Music.

:brick:
 

Kuhio

Well-Known Member
You know what else said chases have?

Music.

:brick:

And they usually have dialogue too, as well as a cast of characters. Do you also need an onboard voice telling you "the shields are failing" or "initiating evasive maneuvers" in order to be convinced you're on a high-speed race through space? Or a costumed CM sitting next to you pushing lighted buttons and pulling levers?

Like I said, the ride is meant to be evocative. If it's impossible for you to feel the excitement of racing through space without having onboard audio, well... different strokes for different folks. I'm sure there's someone out there who can't get the feeling of racing through space without actually wearing a helmet and spacesuit on the ride... I'm just glad he doesn't post on these boards.
 

SirGoofy

Member
And they usually have dialogue too, as well as a cast of characters. Do you also need an onboard voice telling you "the shields are failing" or "initiating evasive maneuvers" in order to be convinced you're on a high-speed race through space?

No...but it'd be awesome.:D

Or a costumed CM sitting next to you pushing lighted buttons and pulling levers?

That would be awkward, but I'd transfer there in a heart beat!:lol:

Like I said, the ride is meant to be evocative. If it's impossible for you to feel the excitement of racing through space without having onboard audio, well... different strokes for different folks.

Oh, I love the ride. But in my mind if you want to bring a themed coaster into the 21st century on-board audio is a must. It enhances pretty much everything in my opinion.
 

Kuhio

Well-Known Member
Oh, I love the ride. But in my mind if you want to bring a themed coaster into the 21st century on-board audio is a must. It enhances pretty much everything in my opinion.

Just trying to understand where you're coming from: Do you feel that the Matterhorn Bobsleds, Big Thunder, or Expedition Everest would also be enhanced by the addition of onboard audio?
 

hack2112

Active Member
And you know this because you've been in space?

Space Mountain isn't supposed to provide a realistic simulation of an actual trip to or through outer space. If it were, then all of the Space Mountains would be monumental failures. It would be akin to saying, "Technically, when you travel through space, you wouldn't just turn left and right, or travel at a speed of 30 miles per hour." (And how, "technically," does onboard audio provide a realistic sensation of being in space?)

Rather, Space Mountain is supposed to be evocative of a thrilling, high-speed journey through space -- something out of the realm of science-fiction. To me, the turbulence of WDW's Space Mountain perfectly evokes the feeling of a perilous space chase -- it echoes exciting scenes of space travel from many science-fiction movies and TV shows, from Star Wars to Star Trek. Maybe the turbulence is caused by weaving in and out of an asteroid field (flying into and out of numerous minor gravitational fields), or having bits of space debris ricochet off the ship's force field, or being struck by fire from a pursuing starfighter -- who knows? It really doesn't matter.

What does matter is that "roughness" is in no way inconsistent with the concept of fantasy space travel. If you don't like a bumpy ride simply because you find it uncomfortable, then that alone is reason enough for your opinion -- just don't try to justify it by saying that "space is smooth."
Trust me, I think the coaster is good, the fact that I spend hours doing nothing but BLSRS and SM shows I have great love for the attraction, but not once in the past 5 years have I ever been sucked into the illusion that I was in space when I got into that car. In the queue, I truly feel out of this world, but when I notice the out of date lighting (who can't), hear the lift, see the track and supports, and witness not only the horrendous re-entry tunnel, the light leak that is the exit, but also the fact that I'm still in space, yet I can see the exit and where the other cars are going to load, not to mention the floor of the building itself, completely destroys any feeling that I was in space. And frankly, space should be smooth. It can be fast, and unpredictable, and it can throw you around in quick turns and drops, but it shouldn't be rough for no explicable reason. If they wanted it to be rough, they most likely would have had you weaving in and out of asteroids and avoiding fire from an enemy cruiser, but Space Mountain was always meant to be the "perfect" ride through space: fast, sharp, and smooth. BTMR gives the impression that it's rough, when in reality the track is as smooth as butter for the most part. They added roughness in. They didn't do that with SM. SM has become what it is today because of many, many years of neglect.

And I do believe space can be rough. Star Tours does a great job with "rough and tumble" space, though those simulators are showing their age and need a major overhaul when it goes down.

You know what else said chases have?

Music.

:brick:

This.

Also, as a side note on being able to submit to a fantasy and believe in the illusion, DL's SM had me from the moment I entered the inside queue, and it did something WDW's SM has never done in a while, it sucessfuly built up the tension from the moment I stepped into the ante-chamber before the loading room, and didn't let go until I saw my picture. I never knew a simple lift hill could derive so much joy, excitement, and adrenaline out of me, but it did, and you know what made it all the better? If you said the soundtrack, you'd be completely correct, and the fact that I always felt I was sailing through the cosmos didn't hurt either. And mind you, this was EVERY time I rode this attraction, no matter how tired I felt or what the time was, the moment I heard the first chord of the on-board audio, my heart was pumping, and I knew I was in for a hell of a ride.

I only wish that WDW will some day give me that sensory experience that DL did, but that will only happen when TDO pulls it's head out of a very dark place, and takes back their crown as complete resort destination.
 

SirGoofy

Member
Just trying to understand where you're coming from: Do you feel that the Matterhorn Bobsleds, Big Thunder, or Expedition Everest would also be enhanced by the addition of onboard audio?

Sure. I'd love to hear a western score in BTM. Not sure how well it would work on EE and Matterhorn, but I'm sure they'd come up with something good.
 

Kuhio

Well-Known Member
and


fc28c598.gif


Rough track and no onboard audio = Complete waste of time and total failure of the refurb.
That is all.:cool:


Yep.

Is it necessary to post something like this
fc28c598.gif
just because you happen to hold a contrary opinion? The only thing that posting "smilies" like this accomplishes is diminishing the weight of your own opinion. If you can't even express your disagreement without suggesting that someone needs to literally have some sense slapped into him, what does that say about your own capacity for forming a well-reasoned judgment?

And I frankly find it bizarre that several people have felt it necessary to state that what I said was "just my opinion" -- as if there was a risk that, absent such an explanation, someone perusing this thread might somehow take what I said to be an actual fact. Of course what I stated was an opinion -- just as the statement that the refurb is a "failure" is nothing more than an opinion. That an expression of subjective belief is, by definition, an "opinion" should go without saying -- and without the need to preface it with "IMO" or something similar.

Yet a number of posters who hold the opinion that the refurb is a failure also seem to be inexplicably threatened by the expression of any contrary opinion. I'm pretty open-minded, and I'll take into consideration any opinion that is well-reasoned and expressed in a civil manner. That said, I'm also secure in my beliefs, because I've reached them only after significant consideration.

If I disagree with someone, I'll express that disagreement only if I feel it adds to the overall dialogue. I don't, however, feel like I need to explicitly say "that's just your opinion" every single time I read something I don't agree with -- let alone post smilies that indicate just how idiotic I think the other person is. I can't help but think that anyone who "doth protest too much" in such a fashion really can't be that secure in their own views.
 

_Scar

Active Member
Is it necessary to post something like this
fc28c598.gif
just because you happen to hold a contrary opinion? The only thing that posting "smilies" like this accomplishes is diminishing the weight of your own opinion. If you can't even express your disagreement without suggesting that someone needs to literally have some
sense slapped into him, what does that say about your own capacity for forming a well-reasoned judgment?

And I frankly find it bizarre that several people have felt it necessary to state that what I said was "just my opinion" -- as if there was a risk that, absent such an explanation, someone perusing this thread might somehow take what I said to be an actual fact. Of course what I stated was an opinion -- just as the statement that the refurb is a "failure" is nothing more than an opinion. That an expression of subjective belief is, by definition, an "opinion" should go without saying -- and without the need to preface it with "IMO" or something similar.

Yet a number of posters who hold the opinion that the refurb is a failure also seem to be inexplicably threatened by the expression of any contrary opinion. I'm pretty open-minded, and I'll take into consideration any opinion that is well-reasoned and expressed in a civil manner. That said, I'm also secure in my beliefs, because I've reached them only after significant consideration.

If I disagree with someone, I'll express that disagreement only if I feel it adds to the overall dialogue. I don't, however, feel like I need to explicitly say "that's just your opinion" every single time I read something I don't agree with -- let alone post smilies that indicate just how idiotic I think the other person is. I can't help but think that anyone who "doth protest too much" in such a fashion really can't be that secure in their own views.

fc28c598.gif


Some people feel VERY strongly this refurb should of never got the budget cut it did... and it really shouldn't of. But in reality it did. Personally, I like the new queue and I really LOVED Space when I rode it a few days ago, but I would rather see a new Space Mountain as originally promised. And I'm sure Lee wasn't trying to be rude, he's really more helpful than hurtful :lol::animwink: (did my opinion just lose weight?)
 

hack2112

Active Member
fc28c598.gif


Some people feel VERY strongly this refurb should of never got the budget cut it did... and it really shouldn't of. But in reality it did. Personally, I like the new queue and I really LOVED Space when I rode it a few days ago, but I would rather see a new Space Mountain as originally promised. And I'm sure Lee wasn't trying to be rude, he's really more helpful than hurtful :lol::animwink:

And be honest, you can't help but giggle when you see
fc28c598.gif
anyway, can you?
 

Kuhio

Well-Known Member
Sure. I'd love to hear a western score in BTM. Not sure how well it would work on EE and Matterhorn, but I'm sure they'd come up with something good.

I think it's possible for onboard audio to enhance a roller coaster-type ride, but only under certain circumstances. Under other circumstances, it can detract. And, even when audio does enhance a ride, it's not necessarily enough to make the ride good -- just better than it would otherwise be.

For example, I think onboard audio enhances California Screamin' because the coaster, while pleasant enough, is pretty boring by itself. But the audio still isn't sufficient to elevate CS to the level of a truly good coaster-type attraction, like BTMRR.

On the other hand, an attraction like BTMRR, while not that thrilling as far as coasters go, is nevertheless highly successful because the level of theming from beginning to end is more than enough to evoke the feeling of being on a runaway mine train. To me, hearing a western onboard score wouldn't do anything to make the theming or the overall experience any more convincing or fun.
 

hack2112

Active Member
I think it's possible for onboard audio to enhance a roller coaster-type ride, but only under certain circumstances. Under other circumstances, it can detract. And, even when audio does enhance a ride, it's not necessarily enough to make the ride good -- just better than it would otherwise be.

For example, I think onboard audio enhances California Screamin' because the coaster, while pleasant enough, is pretty boring by itself. But the audio still isn't sufficient to elevate CS to the level of a truly good coaster-type attraction, like BTMRR.

On the other hand, an attraction like BTMRR, while not that thrilling as far as coasters go, is nevertheless highly successful because the level of theming from beginning to end is more than enough to evoke the feeling of being on a runaway mine train. To me, hearing a western onboard score wouldn't do anything to make the theming or the overall experience any more convincing or fun.
For some reason I really want to play a Firefly track while riding BTMR now, but which track shall I choose? Hmmmm...
 

EpcotServo

Well-Known Member
This.

Also, as a side note on being able to submit to a fantasy and believe in the illusion, DL's SM had me from the moment I entered the inside queue, and it did something WDW's SM has never done in a while, it sucessfuly built up the tension from the moment I stepped into the ante-chamber before the loading room, and didn't let go until I saw my picture. I never knew a simple lift hill could derive so much joy, excitement, and adrenaline out of me, but it did, and you know what made it all the better? If you said the soundtrack, you'd be completely correct, and the fact that I always felt I was sailing through the cosmos didn't hurt either. And mind you, this was EVERY time I rode this attraction, no matter how tired I felt or what the time was, the moment I heard the first chord of the on-board audio, my heart was pumping, and I knew I was in for a hell of a ride.

I only wish that WDW will some day give me that sensory experience that DL did, but that will only happen when TDO pulls it's head out of a very dark place, and takes back their crown as complete resort destination.

^This.x2

Seriously, couldn't of said it better myself.
 

Kuhio

Well-Known Member
And I'm sure Lee wasn't trying to be rude, he's really more helpful than hurtful :lol::animwink: (did my opinion just lose weight?)

The fact that he's more helpful than hurtful doesn't mean that his response in this particular instance was appropriate.

And be honest, you can't help but giggle when you see
fc28c598.gif
anyway, can you?

I think the smilie is funny in the abstract (much like this one :hurl:) -- but it's another thing entirely when it's used directly to express derision toward a specific post made by an individual who's a member of the shared community. In other words, I think it's fine when used to express annoyance toward people or situations in general, but I'd never use it in responding to a specific poster, no matter how much I disagreed with his or her view.

I've seen (and posted in) any number of forums where snide, rude, and dismissive comments and smilies are the norm. I don't, however, think WDWMAGIC is one of those places -- or that it should aspire to be.
 

Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
The fact that he's more helpful than hurtful doesn't mean that his response in this particular instance was appropriate.



I think the smilie is funny in the abstract (much like this one :hurl:) -- but it's another thing entirely when it's used directly to express derision toward a specific post made by an individual who's a member of the shared community. In other words, I think it's fine when used to express annoyance toward people or situations in general, but I'd never use it in responding to a specific poster, no matter how much I disagreed with his or her view.

I've seen (and posted in) any number of forums where snide, rude, and dismissive comments and smilies are the norm. I don't, however, think WDWMAGIC is one of those places -- or that it should aspire to be.

Could the common factor be your presence? :shrug:

Or do you just have a Germanic sense of humour?
 

Lee

Adventurer
In the queue, I truly feel out of this world, but when I notice the out of date lighting (who can't), hear the lift, see the track and supports, and witness not only the horrendous re-entry tunnel, the light leak that is the exit, but also the fact that I'm still in space, yet I can see the exit and where the other cars are going to load, not to mention the floor of the building itself, completely destroys any feeling that I was in space. And frankly, space should be smooth. It can be fast, and unpredictable, and it can throw you around in quick turns and drops, but it shouldn't be rough for no explicable reason. If they wanted it to be rough, they most likely would have had you weaving in and out of asteroids and avoiding fire from an enemy cruiser, but Space Mountain was always meant to be the "perfect" ride through space: fast, sharp, and smooth. BTMR gives the impression that it's rough, when in reality the track is as smooth as butter for the most part. They added roughness in. They didn't do that with SM. SM has become what it is today because of many, many years of neglect.

Also, as a side note on being able to submit to a fantasy and believe in the illusion, DL's SM had me from the moment I entered the inside queue, and it did something WDW's SM has never done in a while, it sucessfuly built up the tension from the moment I stepped into the ante-chamber before the loading room, and didn't let go until I saw my picture. I never knew a simple lift hill could derive so much joy, excitement, and adrenaline out of me, but it did, and you know what made it all the better? If you said the soundtrack, you'd be completely correct, and the fact that I always felt I was sailing through the cosmos didn't hurt either. And mind you, this was EVERY time I rode this attraction, no matter how tired I felt or what the time was, the moment I heard the first chord of the on-board audio, my heart was pumping, and I knew I was in for a hell of a ride.

I only wish that WDW will some day give me that sensory experience that DL did, but that will only happen when TDO pulls it's head out of a very dark place, and takes back their crown as complete resort destination.
Yeah. All that. Well said, sir.

Is it necessary to post something like this
fc28c598.gif
just because you happen to hold a contrary opinion?
No. It's necessary because I thought it was a funny and lighthearted way to express my complete and total disagreement with your post. No offense was intended.

The only thing that posting "smilies" like this accomplishes is diminishing the weight of your own opinion. If you can't even express your disagreement without suggesting that someone needs to literally have some sense slapped into him, what does that say about your own capacity for forming a well-reasoned judgment?
Nah...my opinion has plenty of weight, as does yours, regardless of whether or not I tack a funny little smiley to it or not.:D
The fact is, I have spent quite a bit of time and typing energy over the last year or so expressing my opinion on this topic and at this point I'm really not keen on engaging in a well-reasoned, pseudo-intellectual dissertation on the merits or drawbacks of onboard audio. Much less get into an argument over opinion. I'd much rather just toss out a funny smiley, state my disagreement and move on.

That an expression of subjective belief is, by definition, an "opinion" should go without saying -- and without the need to preface it with "IMO" or something similar.
You would think so, wouldn't you? However, I can state with some experience that quite a few posters around these parts are laboring under the distinct belief that their opinion is indeed fact and will argue the point with you until your eyes cross. Not that you did. I'm just saying...

And be honest, you can't help but giggle when you see
fc28c598.gif
anyway, can you?
Exactly. I think it's hysterical.
Also, it is a good representation of how much frustration I feel, and have felt for many months, over this whole situation. It's a long and sordid soap opera of a refurb and at this point I'm so :brick: about it, if I don't let off a little "smiley steam" I'd likely fall out of my chair and lie twitching on the floor.

I think it's possible for onboard audio to enhance a roller coaster-type ride, but only under certain circumstances. Under other circumstances, it can detract. And, even when audio does enhance a ride, it's not necessarily enough to make the ride good -- just better than it would otherwise be.
Exactly. Put me in the group that thinks audio wouldn't make the current Space Mountain a great ride, but it would certainly make it better than it otherwise is. The fact that you are riding around in a dimly lit (not really dark) room, on bumpy track, with not much to look at besides an aging support structure and a reduced amount of effects seems to me to be a situation that screams out for the enhancement that audio would add. Another aspect of where DL got it right. They added effects and audio. MK reduced the amount of effects and didn't add audio. Two additions for them, two subtractions for MK.

On the other hand, an attraction like BTMRR, while not that thrilling as far as coasters go, is nevertheless highly successful because the level of theming from beginning to end is more than enough to evoke the feeling of being on a runaway mine train. To me, hearing a western onboard score wouldn't do anything to make the theming or the overall experience any more convincing or fun.
Totally agreed. BTM is well-themed enough to not need the enhancement of onboard audio. The scenery and offboard sounds do the job wonderfully. Space Mountain, however, I don't think is a good enough ride that it can rely on theming alone, especially in the actual coaster segment. Anything they can do to enhance the theme out there would be a welcome addition.

For some reason I really want to play a Firefly track while riding BTMR now, but which track shall I choose? Hmmmm...
Dude...any of them. Can't take the sky....er....mountain from me.:cool:
 

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