Space Mountain Heading to the Scrap Heap :)

[CaptainMichael]

Really!? How so?

Well, the Hatbox ghost has yet to be added, but that's more rumors and speculation than a definite. Disneyland will probably get it first.

Pictures appeared, were modified, etc. And, I talked to Imagineer who said it wasn't done when I was there on opening day.

Sure, it wasn't as incomplete as SSE, but it wasn't 100% done.

 

[Jasonflz]

So to recap, the assumptions we're making based on cryptic posts:
- SM is getting prepared to handle onboard audio
- Whether or not the queue is actually enclosed or not at open is a ??
- the exit tunnel remains a ??
- the arcade will stay and we all hate it
- the ride will be "done" when it opens (meaning functioning but not done)

- SSE, not done and now no timeline to be (really) done
- The graveyard may be hitting the street in 2009-2010 possibly
- Imaginations may once again run wild sooner than later

One can only hope. Last fully well executed and complete Refurb? When and what was it? I saw NO to HM because of the missing AA that's rumored to still be coming "soon" or "someday".

Keep in mind, in Disney terms I define:
done = ride works and is safe for use
soon = sometime in the next 5 years
someday = before we close the park forever, this will change/happen
2009 = 2011
2010 = 2015
2011+ = see "someday"

As depressing as this post is, you are probably right. Fortunately, Disney is trying to get the ball rolling on future attractions. When the economy hit so many projects were frozen. The challenge is getting as many of these projects to finally come to fruition in the upcoming years. The Imagination refurb seems to be on the Horizons and Mysterious Island was possibly supposed to break ground. Not to mention the Little mermaid arriving in about five years. Universal is really at the top of their game at the moment with massive plans set around the country, most of which are coming to the Orlando parks. Disney can't really be expecting a refurb on Space Mountain to attract tons of guests in, can they?:shrug:

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

There is plenty of room. I think the "sparkly" feature was produced by a belt that traveled over the leds or whatever is providing the illumination. It was either causing the heat sensitive leds to overheat or it was getting untracked. Which would explain why it only "sparkles" occasionally. Anyway, for all I know they have it working now. But it was definitely a problem and I suspect still is.

PS- a watch is small but has many moving parts. The size of the watch does not keep it from being mechanical :brick:

Look, there's no need to talk down to me.

The belt thing is interesting, but kinda superfluous. I think it's easier if they were to just have the white LEDs be programed to do that randomly.

Well, the Hatbox ghost has yet to be added, but that's more rumors and speculation than a definite. Disneyland will probably get it first.

Pictures appeared, were modified, etc. And, I talked to Imagineer who said it wasn't done when I was there on opening day.

Sure, it wasn't as incomplete as SSE, but it wasn't 100% done.

Ah, gotcha now.

Well, HatBox is more of getting an added plus.

The other stuff I just equated to Soft Openings and tinkering.

 

[fyn]

I was under the impression that Siemens money was exclusive to SSE and ROE.

It had been said (kcnole remembering something Lee said in a previous thread) that Disney was financing the descent, not Siemens. Someone else can confirm whether or not that's true, but if it is then there's no reason Disney can't move its money elsewhere. Were I in a position to make that decision, I would pull money off of the descent also.

Also - it's possible (nay, likely) that Disney's agreement with Siemens is for a yearly attraction budget, and Disney's fiscal calendar rolls over at the end of September (it looks like Siemens does as well, but a quick search didn't confirm it). A couple things could be happening right now.

1) Disney is/was financing the SSE work because Siemens wouldn't. I'll call this unlikely. Any agreement would include budget for incremental plussing, and Siemens would be obligated to pay.
2) Disney blew through the budget from Siemens for the fiscal year, and won't get more money until October 1st. Possible, but I don't think they would have missed it by this much. But hey, crazier things have happened.
3) Given the unprecented economic climate, Siemens and Disney sat down and renegotiated the yearly budget to reign in costs. Most large companies are doing this, or have done this recently, and these two shouldn't be any exception. They most likely agreed that Siemens could reduce sponsorship funds for the short term, with an agreement to increase them over time (were I Siemens, I'd try to get Disney to do that). The funds likely work out to a similar, or larger amount over the long run, but in the short run it contains costs.

 

[Jasonflz]

It had been said (kcnole remembering something Lee said in a previous thread) that Disney was financing the descent, not Siemens. Someone else can confirm whether or not that's true, but if it is then there's no reason Disney can't move its money elsewhere. Were I in a position to make that decision, I would pull money off of the descent also.

Also - it's possible (nay, likely) that Disney's agreement with Siemens is for a yearly attraction budget, and Disney's fiscal calendar rolls over at the end of September (it looks like Siemens does as well, but a quick search didn't confirm it). A couple things could be happening right now.

1) Disney is/was financing the SSE work because Siemens wouldn't. I'll call this unlikely. Any agreement would include budget for incremental plussing, and Siemens would be obligated to pay.
2) Disney blew through the budget from Siemens for the fiscal year, and won't get more money until October 1st. Possible, but I don't think they would have missed it by this much. But hey, crazier things have happened.
3) Given the unprecented economic climate, Siemens and Disney sat down and renegotiated the yearly budget to reign in costs. Most large companies are doing this, or have done this recently, and these two shouldn't be any exception. They most likely agreed that Siemens could reduce sponsorship funds for the short term, with an agreement to increase them over time (were I Siemens, I'd try to get Disney to do that). The funds likely work out to a similar, or larger amount over the long run, but in the short run it contains costs.

But wasn't it Siemens who wanted to complete the descent after all of the negative press?:shrug:

 

[jt04]

Look, there's no need to talk down to me.

The belt thing is interesting, but kinda superfluous. I think it's easier if they were to just have the white LEDs be programed to do that randomly.

Ah, gotcha now.

Well, HatBox is more of getting an added plus.

The other stuff I just equated to Soft Openings and tinkering.

You might want to go back and read the dismissive response you gave me on thinking it might be a mechanical problem.

Kettle meet pot.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

It had been said (kcnole remembering something Lee said in a previous thread) that Disney was financing the descent, not Siemens. Someone else can confirm whether or not that's true, but if it is then there's no reason Disney can't move its money elsewhere. Were I in a position to make that decision, I would pull money off of the descent also.

Also - it's possible (nay, likely) that Disney's agreement with Siemens is for a yearly attraction budget, and Disney's fiscal calendar rolls over at the end of September (it looks like Siemens does as well, but a quick search didn't confirm it). A couple things could be happening right now.

1) Disney is/was financing the SSE work because Siemens wouldn't. I'll call this unlikely. Any agreement would include budget for incremental plussing, and Siemens would be obligated to pay.
2) Disney blew through the budget from Siemens for the fiscal year, and won't get more money until October 1st. Possible, but I don't think they would have missed it by this much. But hey, crazier things have happened.
3) Given the unprecented economic climate, Siemens and Disney sat down and renegotiated the yearly budget to reign in costs. Most large companies are doing this, or have done this recently, and these two shouldn't be any exception. They most likely agreed that Siemens could reduce sponsorship funds for the short term, with an agreement to increase them over time (were I Siemens, I'd try to get Disney to do that). The funds likely work out to a similar, or larger amount over the long run, but in the short run it contains costs.

I have a feeling it's that. Lee said soon...maybe Oct 1st is the day the future begins again.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

You might want to go back and read the dismissive response you gave me on thinking it might be a mechanical problem.

Kettle meet pot.

Let's have a look...

Moving parts? Where?

I asked you a question.

In the sign obviously. :brick:

He was reaching into it and manually adjusting something and I could hear something mechanical. I was there during the soft openings when you could keep riding over and over and he was working on the right hand side sign.

You are the one who is dismissive with the brick smile thing. (perhaps this is why 74 hates smilies)

Sorry if I offended you while you were offending me.:shrug::lol:

 

[Phonedave]

Money talks. Perhaps Siemens was tired of dumping cash into SSE and not seeing progress. On the flipside, why spend all of the money on the technology just to let it sit there and collect dust.

Unfortunately, we need to get used to this kind of disappointment. I expect SM to be much worse because the only change you'll notice when it opens in November is the smell of fresh paint and a smooth track. At least SSE was mostly done *thankfully*

Does anybody know what the sponsorship contract looks like.

I doubt the contract was along the lines of "in return for being named a sponsor you will pay for a refurb involving the following"

It would be more along the lines of "In exchange for a SET AMOUNT OF MONEY, to be used for refurbing, you will be the sponsor"

Most sponsorships I have seen are a set amount of money, that the place being sponsored (in this cases SSE) have to manage.

-dave

 

[marni1971]

1) Add music to the ride
2) Fix up the queue (after the the star tunnel)
3) Update/replace the control system to avoid the frequent shutdowns
4) Don't play with the track layouts - they are fantastic! - but fix whatever should be fixed to keep it safe
5) Replace the post-show (the whole FedEx thing was nifty at the time, but really doesn't make sense without their sponsorship anymore - Anybody remember, "Back at the lab, the package is received by...seems like the lab retriever"

1 Not this time
2 Yep
3 Yep
4 Yep (or nope!)
5 Probably


And now, SSE. at Guest Services for Disney to refinance it. to Siemens to put the money in now. Simple. So near yet so far.

 

[jmuboy]

Basically, don't hold your breathe that WDW will make any effort to finish SSE and be prepared now (by lowering your expectations to 6 flags levels) if you think SM's rehab will be anything "great"

That's how I look at all of WDW nowadays. Go to DL for lots of magic, big budgets and a "real" (or more real) Disney experience. Corporate greed has run rampant around DL as well. They have just learned to balance the guest experience and making money hand over fist. WDW would rather deliver sub par experiences and squeeze just a few more pennies out of every sucker (myself included) who still gives them money.

I'm proud to say my 5 day Orlando trip coming up will only include one day at EPCOT and one meal at the CA Grill. All other tourist dollars will be given to Universal and Sea World. They are the ones working hardest for my discretionary entertainment dollars these day and should be rewarded for their efforts. I will let my wallet speak for me.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Does anybody know what the sponsorship contract looks like.

I doubt the contract was along the lines of "in return for being named a sponsor you will pay for a refurb involving the following"

It would be more along the lines of "In exchange for a SET AMOUNT OF MONEY, to be used for refurbing, you will be the sponsor"

Most sponsorships I have seen are a set amount of money, that the place being sponsored (in this cases SSE) have to manage.

-dave

So SSE got a hunk of cash and that's it? It's nonrenewable for each year/ upkeep.

Sounds like a scholarship.:lookaroun:lol:

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

1 Not this time
2 Yep
3 Yep
4 Yep (or nope!)
5 Probably


And now, SSE. at Guest Services for Disney to refinance it. to Siemens to put the money in now. Simple. So near yet so far.

Implying that there is more to come and later. Lovely.

SSE-*sigh* How long do you think it will be until we get it?

 

[stitch2008]

Basically, don't hold your breathe that WDW will make any effort to finish SSE and be prepared now (by lowering your expectations to 6 flags levels) if you think SM's rehab will be anything "great"

That's how I look at all of WDW nowadays. Go to DL for lots of magic, big budgets and a "real" (or more real) Disney experience. Corporate greed has run rampant around DL as well. They have just learned to balance the guest experience and making money hand over fist. WDW would rather deliver sub par experiences and squeeze just a few more pennies out of every sucker (myself included) who still gives them money.

I'm proud to say my 5 day Orlando trip coming up will only include one day at EPCOT and one meal at the CA Grill. All other tourist dollars will be given to Universal and Sea World. They are the ones working hardest for my discretionary entertainment dollars these day and should be rewarded for their efforts. I will let my wallet speak for me.

I've said this once on these forums before. Have a good time at Universal and Sea World. I'm going to keep going to WDW. Sure the Florida SM may not be as cool as the DL one. But I still enjoyed SM before and I'm going to enjoy it after the rehab.

 

[jt04]

Let's have a look...


I asked you a question.

You are the one who is dismissive with the brick smile thing. (perhaps this is why 74 hates smilies)

Sorry if I offended you while you were offending me.:shrug::lol:

Your question was dismissive in nature. Perhaps asking not one, but two questions in three words gives that impression. Or you could use more smileys. :lookaroun:lol:

 

[hardcard]

Agreed. This is a huge let down. Any confidence I had for TDO and this *slight* change in approach is about gone if what Lee posted is true.

:dazzle::ROFLOL:

If THAT'S true...:lol:

No, it's not a huge let down.. Not by Disney... Don't blame disney.. Everyone has been pinning there hopes of an improved SSE to rumors and speculations on the internet... Disney has REPEATEDLY stated that SSE is complete, and nothing more is coming..never was.

 

[The Conundrum]

Implying that there is more to come and later. Lovely.

SSE-*sigh* How long do you think it will be until we get it?

You will have graduated college before SSE's descent is (re)done

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Your question was dismissive in nature. Perhaps asking not one, but two questions in three words gives that impression. Or you could use more smileys. :lookaroun:lol:

I'm sorry, I didn't mean it like that. My apologies.

And I think I use too many as it is...:lookaroun:lookaroun:lookaroun:lookaroun

Wait, what?

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

You will have graduated college before SSE's descent is (re)done

Good graduation present...:brick::ROFLOL:

No, it's not a huge let down.. Not by Disney... Don't blame disney.. Everyone has been pinning there hopes of an improved SSE to rumors and speculations on the internet... Disney has REPEATEDLY stated that SSE is complete, and nothing more is coming..never was.

Well, then what is Lee referring to when he said not YET?

 

[Jasonflz]

Since this thread is already off the chain I use the most smileys.

:lol::dazzle::dazzle:
:lol:
:lol:
:sohappy: