Soda price increase

[Buried20KLeague]

I would concur.

I would add, though, that in today's job marketplace (one where CNN listed home and garden work as the No. 1 current option for jobless Americans ... just two spots up from condom manufacture and resume editor ... I kid you not, I couldn't make this crap up if I tried) many people are staying at jobs they hate.

How many people hate working at WDW? Who knows. But it's probably more than most fans would think.

I don't also buy into the theory that you work for a company just because you 'love' its creative output unless money is no option to you (even then I think it is a DUMB reason, but people are entitled to be as dumb they want).

If WDW is offering a service worker $8.50 an hour and a tee shirt and assorted crap store on I-Drive is offering $13 an hour one would be a fool to opt for the magic if all else were equal.

I also don't believe there should be ceilings on wages at WDW or elsewhere. If somone started at $4 an hour as a ride operater at MK and loves that job and works for years (decades even) they shouldn't reach say $12 an hour and 'top out' ... they should keep on getting normal increases and if that means you have someone loading Pooh for $22 an hour that's perfectly OK in my book. And I am both a shareholder and a capitalist (albeit not the kind that believes in socializing Wall Street and letting Big Wigs who should be jailed off with multi-million payouts because that sounds like something those evil Commies would do ...)

~I'd take $30 an hour to drive a boat!~

WHOA.

I love ya buddy... But... Can you pass me some of whatever you're smoking? :lol:

You know that's not possible. It's not even remotely possible.

 

[SoccerMickey]

It sure used to be ... D-i-c-k Nunis got his start as a DL Jungle Boat skipper ... countless other execs from Jim Cora to Jack Linquist did as well.

Today's exec ranks ... folks like Al Weiss, Meg Crofton, Erin Wallace to Phil Holmes to George Kalogridis to Michael O'Grattan to to Jim MacPhee to Danny Cockerell did as well ...

Now, they all had individual reasons for their career paths advancing to where it did, but the point is Disney USED to tout that you could make a career there.

That is the American Way, right? Start on the bottom, put in your time, learn and, if you're good enough or someone takes a shine to you, you move up.

I'll grant you that today Disney doesn't want that. It wants to fly in basically slave labor from any/all corners of the globe to be mousekeepers, custodians, painters etc ... what those internationals don't fill they'd like to use with CPers and retirees and that is exactly what they've been doing.

But it didn't use to be that way.

They used to list individual retirements in Eyes and Ears because say in 1990 you might see someone retire that worked at WDW from before the place opened for the next two decades ... full-time ... with benefits ... moving up the ladder ... enjoying working for a company.

~Remember when 'W' said Americans should get used to the idea of working for many employers in their lives? I do~

Unfortunately for the amount of young people with bright eyes thinking that operation a Jungle Cruise boat or pressing a button at Dumbo that will end up being another Meg Crofton is ALMOST zero. And the majority of them do it because they're Disney fans but after a few years of walking on the Haunted Mansion belt they get jaded and lose a lot of their magic.
Piloting a Jungle Cruise boat gets lumped in as a McJob, and I can say this because I do that at the Magic Kingdom. I do it because I enjoy it, enjoy WDW, and like to reap the benefits.

 

[jt04]

Unfortunately for the amount of young people with bright eyes thinking that operation a Jungle Cruise boat or pressing a button at Dumbo that will end up being another Meg Crofton is ALMOST zero. And the majority of them do it because they're Disney fans but after a few years of walking on the Haunted Mansion belt they get jaded and lose a lot of their magic.
Piloting a Jungle Cruise boat gets lumped in as a McJob, and I can say this because I do that at the Magic Kingdom. I do it because I enjoy it, enjoy WDW, and like to reap the benefits.

That is the only reason I can see anyone being a CM. Because you find it fun and you want to bring some happiness to families and provide them long time memories. It really seems like a rather honorable thing to do. It just isn't a great carrer maker necessarily.

Just my take on it.

 

[WDW1974]

While I agree with most of what you said, if you didn't cap wages for lower skilled and unskilled jobs, don't you think you would end up with zero turnover, and extraordinarily high labor costs? And with low turnover, and required wage increases, my guess is the chance for legacy costs would increase exponentially. I'm not anti-union or pro wall street or anything like that, but if you are unable to keep unskilled wages low, do you not feel Disney could run the risk of wages, pensions, and insurance costs crippling their business, similar to the auto industry? Not looking for an argument, just curious as to how you feel Disney could pay ride operators $22 an hour, and boat drivers $30 an hour, and get prices even lower than they currently are (which you seem to be an advocate of). If Disney is employing unskilled workers until their retirement age, my guess is their labor costs would balloon beyond control.

I don't have a simple answer and you raise valid points.

But I do know the current way of doing things hasn't worked, except for the people at the very top of the structure. And, let's be blunt, when you have or come into generational wealth life is always set for you unless you basically f it up on your own.

The way our economy has been 'working' (and I don't believe for a minute it has ... much like the leveraged subprime mortgages or the futures trading that made oil that should have been selling for under $40 a barrel $150) it is always required that companies cut. And it always starts at the bottom.

Unskilled workers existed at DL all the way back to 1955 or WDW back to '71 ... but their pay had some real-world semblance of reality. Only the most ignorant amongst us would argue that anyone can live on minimum wage or anything close to it. Yet in order to feed the beast that is Wall Street, it is required.

But now it's more than evident to anyone who doesn't have blinders on (or listens to FOX News and Rush) that we have an economic disaster on our hands.

Again, I don't know what the answers are ... but I know that keeping folks in perpetual poverty under the guise 'the lie' that if they work hard enough they can get out of it isn't a solution.

And since exec compensation never gets capped, one might wonder why it needs to be at lower levels. Is one $30 million exec really worth thousands of other people?

As to pricing, I have never advocated lower prices at WDW (except on food since the DDP). WDW always was placed as an premium brand and I always felt it should command that type of pricing structure.

The thing is that today WDW is discounted all the time (not simply in depression era 2008-09), which is part of a vicious cycle because people now expect it.

People should pay for quality. I pay for it when I choose to stay at a Four Seasons instead of a Days Inn or when I buy a Mercedes-Benz instead of a Chevy (although the scary thing is there are more expensive Chevys!) or when I dine at Morton's instead of McDonald's.

People should pay more for Disney than the local amusement park.

Of course, if Wall Street didn't demand absurd levels of growth (that were unrealistic) maybe Disney wouldn't have expanded so much, so fast ... I doubt Disney would have had to offer three free nights if it didn't have 30,000 rooms to fill nightly. But in our system, profit isn't enough ... it always has to be higher ... greed is good (Gordon Gecko) after all ...

You brought up the auto industry and people love to toss out the fact the employees actually make good, liveable wages as the cause of Detroit's downfall because it's an easy target. They never look at bloated management and the decisions made by them and the simple fact people figured out that the Big Three didn't consider quality nearly as important as their foreign competitors. Honda and Toyota make plenty of cars here ... and they aren't paying their workers $8 an hour either.

Again, don't know what the answer is, but I am pretty sure of what it isn't -- the status quo.

 

[WDW1974]

Unfortunately your post sums up most companies in the US today including the one I work for. They say that the large majority of the people who work here have either been here for over 20 years or less than 5 years.

Today with lack of any incentive to stick around (unless you're on the fast track), people change jobs every few years.

With companies giving loyal employees only small pay raises while hiring outside help for higher sums of money plus with no pensions or anything, it's no wonder we see the work culture that we see today.

The whole pension system is what caused people to stay at a company for so long. Even if people were getting 3% raises every year where they could get 15% in one shot by switching companies, they'd stick around because they could put in their 20+ years and have a nice fat pension. Also, as a side bonus, you could get 5, 6, 7, or even 8 weeks of vacation if you were with the company long enough. Today, my company offers new hires 3 weeks of vacation for the first 20 years, and 4 thereafter (unfortunately this is the category I fall into)... some incentive. The days of a company taking care of its employees and the employees being loyal to the company are long gone.

True ... and Disney isn't different than any other company in that department.

I just don't buy for a second that it's a good thing for this country. I think it has contributed greatly to the mess we're in.

Instability isn't good. And having a workforce that is always worried about getting the ax or needing to move on can't help productivity or help us compete on the global market.

Loyalty, in both directions, is what makes a productive workplace. 'We' decided that wasn't how to 'compete' and be 'lean and mean' ... 'we' were wrong.

As to vacation time, well, that became a joke in the 80s or 90s.

American companies don't come close to competing with foreign companies in providing benefits that give people a healthy work/life balance. Most Americans are thrilled if they get two weeks a year plus a few holidays. You're doing better than most in that department.

 

[WDW1974]

The idea that you can work for the same company all your life went out with the Pinto. Nobody owes you anything 74. If you don't get that massive chip off your shoulder it will surely drag you down.

No. Actually that idea went out sometime in the last 15 years.

And we aren't talking about me here, jt ... we are talking people in general. So let's keep it that way.

An entry level person at WDW will need to be taking college courses to get ahead. That is what is different now than what it used to be. It is difficult for someone to "stand out" in such a large crowd. Simple as that.

Of course it is. And that's part of the problem. Even the CP suffers from this.

I recently talked to a kid working on an arts degree who was working quick serve food at MK and was very disillusioned as to how the experience was going to help him get a professional job with Disney or anyone else. He thought he'd get a chance to work in a theme park entertainment position that at least had some relevance to his career as opposed to chicken nuggets. But that is what the CP largely does ...

WDW is not a massive jobs program. It is an amusement park more or less. And although you can still work your way up thru the ranks it will take A LOT of hard work (and college!) for someone to do so.

Basically young people have three choices to get ahead today. Go to college and get a worthwhile degree while setting yourself apart with hard work. Join the military and rise through the ranks by putting your Country first and hard work. Lastly, work for yourself and get customers by setting yourself apart by offering a quality product and hard work.

Are you ignorant enough to believe that hard work is enough for people to get where they should be in life?

As to the military, people shouldn't have to put their lives on the line (or become trained killers) far away from their families in order to make a decent week's pay. If someone wants to join the military that's fine. But putting that out there as an option if the job market sucks (as it does now) is crazy.

Using the "slavery" allusion is the desperate argument of the lazy and/or the incompetent. And it mocks those who actually suffered under it's horrible yoke. You should be ashamed of making such arguments. You have to be pushing 40 but you make the arguments of a rebellious teenager.

Take your mock indignation and stick it in your bag of assorted insults.

We have a class of slave labor in this country today ... the simplest definition would be people who work 40-plus hours a week for a non-living wage. These people who have no choice but to work horrible jobs for little pay with no chance of advancing or improving themselves.

You are not here to discuss WDW News and Rumors. It's just an excuse to vent the same old tired liberal anti-capitalist dogma. So if you insist on doing so could you at least come up with an original argument or take on it. Bacause otherwise you come off as boring, programmed and possibly hypnotized.

You have no clue what you are talking about. But I'll give you this, you're the best at what you do.

But I am really tired of you misrepresenting my views/opinions/statements to fit your own agenda.

I am not a 'liberal' not that there is anything wrong with that term anymore than there is with 'conservative'.

I have always been a big fan of capitalism too. But capitalism as it is practiced in this country has clearly been proven to be a fraud. So, yeah, if you are a proponent of Big Business and love giving tax money to prop up billion dollar companies that engaged in very bad at best (unethical or illegal at worst) practices all the while blaming it on individuals buying big houses or nice TVs, yeah, I am anti-capitalist.

I am more concerned with Joe Average and small business people than I am with AIG, Northern Trust Capital, Lehman Bros, Citi, BoA etc ...

I clearly don't bore you because you can't help but respond to my posts and even invoke me in threads I am not even taking part in ... and your smarmy act is very tired.

Here's an idea ... why don't you go get a degree ... or join the military.

 

[WDW1974]

I do like to check in every so often (LOL, I just typed "chicken" instead right now, which would alter the sentence ever so much), and I prefer to click around all parts of the Internet. I fear tunnel vision more than anything, so I seek opinions (and yes, flames) from all sides. Somebody's gotta keep me honest!

Stick around.

This can be a fun place ... there's even intelligent debate ... at times.

There's also 174 active threads about the Adventurer's Club, but once you wade through them you can find other more enlightening discussions ...

 

[WDW1974]

WHOA.

I love ya buddy... But... Can you pass me some of whatever you're smoking? :lol:

You know that's not possible. It's not even remotely possible.

Of course it isn't ... under our current system.

And I am not even saying it should be either.

Just that people shouldn't have ceilings placed on their wages ... some might say that's just plain unAmerican.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

The idea that a college degree is a cure all in business doesnt hold much water in the real world that I operate in. It just means that you have better qualified cleaners. A degree doesnt guarantee common sense and problem solving skills, in fact often people are conditioned to think the same way.

 

[jt04]

No. Actually that idea went out sometime in the last 15 years.

And we aren't talking about me here, jt ... we are talking people in general. So let's keep it that way.



Of course it is. And that's part of the problem. Even the CP suffers from this.

I recently talked to a kid working on an arts degree who was working quick serve food at MK and was very disillusioned as to how the experience was going to help him get a professional job with Disney or anyone else. He thought he'd get a chance to work in a theme park entertainment position that at least had some relevance to his career as opposed to chicken nuggets. But that is what the CP largely does ...



Are you ignorant enough to believe that hard work is enough for people to get where they should be in life?

Ummmm, yeah I guess so as it has always worked before

As to the military, people shouldn't have to put their lives on the line (or become trained killers) far away from their families in order to make a decent week's pay. If someone wants to join the military that's fine. But putting that out there as an option if the job market sucks (as it does now) is crazy.

It's not for everyone but it has brought millions highly successful carrers. Obviouly it's not for you.



Take your mock indignation and stick it in your bag of assorted insults.

Say what?

We have a class of slave labor in this country today ... the simplest definition would be people who work 40-plus hours a week for a non-living wage. These people who have no choice but to work horrible jobs for little pay with no chance of advancing or improving themselves.

I didn't know that once you work for someone you then can't go work for somebody else. That must be a new rule I am not aware of.



You have no clue what you are talking about. But I'll give you this, you're the best at what you do.

See below

But I am really tired of you misrepresenting my views/opinions/statements to fit your own agenda.

You are mad because you can't believe someone is challanging your world view................obviously

I am not a 'liberal' not that there is anything wrong with that term anymore than there is with 'conservative'.

I never called you a liberal :shrug:

I have always been a big fan of capitalism too. But capitalism as it is practiced in this country has clearly been proven to be a fraud. So, yeah, if you are a proponent of Big Business and love giving tax money to prop up billion dollar companies that engaged in very bad at best (unethical or illegal at worst) practices all the while blaming it on individuals buying big houses or nice TVs, yeah, I am anti-capitalist.

As I thought :lookaroun

I am more concerned with Joe Average and small business people than I am with AIG, Northern Trust Capital, Lehman Bros, Citi, BoA etc ...

...While you constantly insinuate how superior you are to the average Joe. You also call the average joe out for not recognizing how WDW is "walmarted". By the way, the average joe goes to walmart voluntarily.

I clearly don't bore you because you can't help but respond to my posts and even invoke me in threads I am not even taking part in ... and your smarmy act is very tired.


Again I am one of the few willing to counter your anti Disney rants. You seem to prefer people just sit at your feet and agree.

Here's an idea ... why don't you go get a degree ... or join the military.

I have done and been highly achieved at everything I suggest. It works and I have lived it so I know it works. I am more experienced and have traveled extensively (including many years overseas) for private sector work. So I do know of what I speak. And I know what the "average Joe" needs to do because I am the average Joe and have overcome more obstacles than you even know exists. Furthermore, I am a history buff and have learned that the chicken littles are always the most vocal during economic down times. If the economy is left alone it always rebounds. Always! As will the average Joes. :wave:

 

[jt04]

ummmm - Folks? How did we get here from a small Soda price increase? Kinda looks like I went to a fight, and a wdwmagic thread broke out....

All good threads evolve to more interesting subjects. Plus I don't drink soda.:lol:

 

[WDW1974]

<<Are you ignorant enough to believe that hard work is enough for people to get where they should be in life?

Ummmm, yeah I guess so as it has always worked before>>

No, it hasn't. Fome some, sure it has.

But as a blanket statement, it's just ignorant hyperbole. Something you have proven to be quite adept at.

I would never suggest people shouldn't work hard. But it is very simplistic to suggest hard work will lead to success.

<<As to the military, people shouldn't have to put their lives on the line (or become trained killers) far away from their families in order to make a decent week's pay. If someone wants to join the military that's fine. But putting that out there as an option if the job market sucks (as it does now) is crazy.

It's not for everyone but it has brought millions highly successful carrers. Obviouly it's not for you. >>

Agreed. I never said anything differently. I have friends with family in the military. My best childhood friend ended a long career with the Navy and now works for major aerospace corp.

<<Take your mock indignation and stick it in your bag of assorted insults.

Say what?>>


Don't act daft. You hurl names and labels and accusations and then play dumb ...

<<
<<We have a class of slave labor in this country today ... the simplest definition would be people who work 40-plus hours a week for a non-living wage. These people who have no choice but to work horrible jobs for little pay with no chance of advancing or improving themselves.

I didn't know that once you work for someone you then can't go work for somebody else. That must be a new rule I am not aware of.>>

Guess what? For many people there are no other options. And that was the case even in the great years of the dot.com boom of the 90s. The poorest amongst us don't have the ability to simply walk away ... that's why it's called the cycle of poverty.

<<You have no clue what you are talking about. But I'll give you this, you're the best at what you do.

See below

But I am really tired of you misrepresenting my views/opinions/statements to fit your own agenda.

You are mad because you can't believe someone is challanging your world view................obviously>>

Uhm ... no. I am not 'mad' at all. I am tired of your crap, JT. And you know it.

You would be welcome to challenge my world view, although you don't know it because I haven't put it on a Disney fan forum. But you can challenge anything I write ... it's labeling me and misreprsenting my views and opinions I have an issue with. You know it and persist because you think you're getting a rise out of me.


<<I am not a 'liberal' not that there is anything wrong with that term anymore than there is with 'conservative'.

I never called you a liberal :shrug:>>

You said I have a 'liberal anti-capitalist' agenda. You wanna backtrack on that? And you called me a 'Commie' on another thread recently.

<<I have always been a big fan of capitalism too. But capitalism as it is practiced in this country has clearly been proven to be a fraud. So, yeah, if you are a proponent of Big Business and love giving tax money to prop up billion dollar companies that engaged in very bad at best (unethical or illegal at worst) practices all the while blaming it on individuals buying big houses or nice TVs, yeah, I am anti-capitalist.

As I thought :lookaroun>>

Yes. And you're an apologist for Big Business I guess.


<<I am more concerned with Joe Average and small business people than I am with AIG, Northern Trust Capital, Lehman Bros, Citi, BoA etc ...

...While you constantly insinuate how superior you are to the average Joe. You also call the average joe out for not recognizing how WDW is "walmarted". By the way, the average joe goes to walmart voluntarily.>>



See, this is what I am talking about. It's bull plain and simple. I never insinuate that I am better than anyone. The average tourist to WDW certainly doesn't see things like most of us here do ... it doesn't make them stupid or lower life forms.

And I have stated countless times that many of the 'average joes' do indeed see parks that are dirty and neglected, crappy merchandise, overpriced food etc ... they just don't tend to post on forums like this.

As for people going to WalMart, they do because of price, especially now. But many shoppers ARE ignorant to the fact that WalMart can offer such savings because of their predatory tactics that put others out of business, cost Americans jobs and lower the quality of living for all.



<<I clearly don't bore you because you can't help but respond to my posts and even invoke me in threads I am not even taking part in ... and your smarmy act is very tired.


Again I am one of the few willing to counter your anti Disney rants. You seem to prefer people just sit at your feet and agree. >>

I don't care whether people on an online forum agree with me, disagree with me or are on the fence so long as they can intelligently make a point. You can't. You just engage in tactics designed to put the focus on me and not what I write. Again, it's tiresome.



Here's an idea ... why don't you go get a degree ... or join the military.

I have done and been highly achieved at everything I suggest. It works and I have lived it so I know it works. I am more experienced and have traveled extensively (including many years overseas) for private sector work. So I do know of what I speak. And I know what the "average Joe" needs to do because I am the average Joe and have overcome more obstacles than you even know exists. Furthermore, I am a history buff and have learned that the chicken littles are always the most vocal during economic down times. If the economy is left alone it always rebounds. Always! As will the average Joes. :wave:

I have my doubts about what you've achieved, but that's really neither nere nor there. It doesn't matter what has happened to you. My point is you can't take one person's experience and extrapolate it to the masses.

I couldn't care less about what you've overcome because it has no place in this discussion anymore than what I or anyone else has.

As to your point about the economy rebounding if left alone, I agree. The problem is the government hasn't left it alone ... it's meddled for years ... not regulated things when it should have ... and now is socializing Wall Street.

Will it rebound? Sure ... at some point. But to say it's been left alone when trillions of taxpayer dollars are propping up companies that should have collapsed (and many that should have CEOs in cells awaiting trial) is complete and utter BS.

And before you blame Obama for the mess, realize this started long before two months ago.

 

[jt04]

I have my doubts about what you've achieved

Don't.

I am saying a persons outcome is what they put into it.
It's not more complicated than that.

And if you can't hear what I am saying (and you obviously can't or more likely won't) that is not my problem. If you are going to bring politics to the board then expect to be challanged. You are the one who always ends up in these long political discussions and certainly not just with me.

You don't like Disney's business model or practices. We get it. :snore:

 

[WDW1974]

I am saying a persons outcome is what they put into it.
It's not more complicated than that.

If you're a simpleton, maybe.

But for most folks it's a lot more complicated than that.

Otherwise everyone who worked hard, did well and school and stayed out of trouble would have nothing to worry about.

Plenty of people work their a$$es off and never get any reward for it. And even more do little or nothing and have riches beyond your dreams ...

That's life.

And if you can't hear what I am saying (and you obviously can't or more likely won't) that is not my problem. If you are going to bring politics to the board then expect to be challanged. You are the one who always ends up in these long political discussions and certainly not just with me.

Read your own posts. Seriously. And it is spelled challenged.

You don't like Disney's business model or practices. We get it. :snore:

My advice is to ignore my posts if they bore you. Clearly, they don't.

 

[jt04]

if you're a simpleton, maybe.

But for most folks it's a lot more complicated than that.

maybe but not by much.

otherwise everyone who worked hard, did well and school and stayed out of trouble would have nothing to worry about.

Plenty of people work their a$$es off and never get any reward for it. And even more do little or nothing and have riches beyond your dreams ...

That's life.

so why keep complaining then?

read your own posts. Seriously. And it is spelled challenged.

sorry, working on a lot of stuff, no time for spell check



my advice is to ignore my posts if they bore you. Clearly, they don't.

:roflol:

 

[Missing20K]

I like to drink soda when at WDW. Thank you for updating the recent increase in the price of a soda at WDW.

 

[jakeman]

Coke is good.

 

[jt04]

Coke is good.

For removing corrosion.....

 

[unkadug]

Coke is good.

Dr Pepper is better!

 

[Disneybird]

Dr Pepper is better!

Wouldn't you like to be a pepper too???