Soda price increase

EpcotServo

Well-Known Member
So effectively at quiet times it would imply that Disney is relying on hotel income and pin sales to cover he costs of the parks and restaurants? No wonder theres no money for maintenance and new attractions

Actually that's true, Disney World works like that. Revenue from the Restaurants go to the Hotels, the income from the Hotels goes to the parks, Ticket Sales go into Transportation. It's a roundabout circus something like that, and it's why alot of things suffer since none of the departments are self-sufficient.
 

Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
Actually that's true, Disney World works like that. Revenue from the Restaurants go to the Hotels, the income from the Hotels goes to the parks, Ticket Sales go into Transportation. It's a roundabout circus something like that, and it's why alot of things suffer since none of the departments are self-sufficient.

So nonr of it makes a profit? I understand how inter divisional recharges work, especially in capital projects, but I cant get my head around how you could carry out daily operations when there seems to be no incentive to manage costs and increase profit.

And as I keep asking, if you give loss leaders, like free dining, how can you operate if as claimed, the dining was what you were making your money on, loss leaders only work if you then sell other services, like admission, so based on claims made in this thread Disney for several months of the year has to be operating at a significant loss, which would defeat the concept of a loss leader and incentive program.
 

EpcotServo

Well-Known Member
So nonr of it makes a profit? I understand how inter divisional recharges work, especially in capital projects, but I cant get my head around how you could carry out daily operations when there seems to be no incentive to manage costs and increase profit.

And as I keep asking, if you give loss leaders, like free dining, how can you operate if as claimed, the dining was what you were making your money on, loss leaders only work if you then sell other services, like admission, so based on claims made in this thread Disney for several months of the year has to be operating at a significant loss, which would defeat the concept of a loss leader and incentive program.

That's also true, WDW is always pretty much just dumping Money away, often at a loss. They reward Managers and Leaders not by Cost, but more on a "what have you done to Improve or streamline your division" basis. What stinks is even it's an AWFUL idea, they still get rewarded for it.

Trust me, I know I can't ever make that make sense to you, because I've heard all about it and I can't wrap my head around the way WDW operates as well. That's why there's nothing management can do now to shock me.
:lol:
 

jmvd20

Well-Known Member
I think what started this was a comment on how Disney would be operating at a loss based only on revenue from ticket sales. I took this to mean that they were lumping all operating costs together and comparing that figure to the total amount of sales from tickets only. Of course if we took out operating costs associated with anything that generates income on its own then it would be a different story - such as concessions etc...
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
I think that what you sometimes fail to take into consideration is the value of the dollar over time makes it very difficult for Disney to continue to operate the way it once did. While everyone knows that the dollar is worth less today than in the seventies, some people don't realize that the equivalent amount of money today doesn't necessarily cover what it would have back then. For instance, $5 in 1974 is worth a little less than $21 now. However, that doesn't mean you have the equivalent purchasing power, so you may not be able to buy for $21 what you were able to buy for $5 in 1974. Of course, that depends on what you're buying. I don't make a claim that this justifies Disney's prices, but it can be argued that certain luxuries they offered in the past just were no longer financially justifiable.

Like everyone else, Disney has to pay taxes on its real estate. The more they build, the more they are taxed. The higher they value the experience, the higher the tax rate is. So yes they are bringing in millions of dollars in resorts and parks and restaurants. But all of those have staff, all must have electricity and other supplies. Consider the Animal Kingdom alone, which easily must be Disney's most expensive park to operate. The amount of food required to care for those animals, the number of zoologists they must employ to care for them, not to mention the normal costs of operations of a theme park make somewhat high prices a necessity. While I personally agree that with the quality of food at Disney to be less than adequate (those chicken nuggets are absolutely disgusting), they are still cheaper than most regional theme parks. What Disney is really gouging the public on is gate admission (over a short period of time) and hotel accomodations. Yes, the Grand Floridian and Animal Kingdom Lodge might be about right in price for a comparable hotel elsewhere, the moderates and values are overpriced.

So while I agree with you that Disney may have cut down in quality to save money, I disagree with your assertion that they seem to be keeping all the savings to themselves. The truth is, things just don't cost what they used to. Some things they could probably afford to bring back, but some cuts may have been justifiable. I personally think they would save millions per year if they reduced the fireworks shows. It isn't necessary to have them every day of the year.


You can spin this many different ways. Sure, your point about the dollar and its value and spending power is valid. But then you could also point out that Disney's salaries haven't kept up at all with inflation/cost of living. I remember having dinner with a Disney exec (one of the good guy's and no I won't drop his name here so my pal jake doesn't get on my case!) and he told me that if the company had increased wages to match cost of living that any CMs hired in at minimum wage in the mid-80s would be making close to $25 an hour (and this was a few years back) in the very same jobs. One might say that's fair ... that's the American way. One would also be wrong.

We know the way our current capitalist system is set up you can't have that. You must have a service sector that makes slave wages in order to keep the system operating ... now, we see that even that is no guarantee of anything.

In the end, everything revolves around the value of the stock and how Wall Street feels about the company ... one might argue that is why our country is broken now and why so many are just broke.

It's not even about profit anymore ... it's about making numbers that make The Street and analysts happy.

And they're like an eating machine with a voracious appetite. I remember when Michael Eisner promised investors a 20% annual return ... well, back in the mid-80s when the company was so small and had so many assets that weren't nearly being used to their fullest it wasn't tough to deliver on that.

But is size a factor? Absolutely. Sure DAK is expensive to run. But Disney built it because they knew it would attract millions a year automatically and would keep people at WDW longer. And every day added to a visit, obviously, adds loads of cash to the coffers.

But the more you add, the more it costs, the more you are affected by the economy and the more the overall product suffers.

It's a vicious cycle to be sure ... but even WalMart (in Sam Walton's days anyway) wasn't a bad company.

You get too big and you lose sight of what you are supposed to be about.

What is the vision for WDW? Right now? It seems like it's largely building timeshares, selling a dining plan to every guest and 'getting by' on the bare minimum of investment. Just market the same old tired stuff and hope the repeat guests don't too much.

That's a fundamental paradigm shift from say 20 years ago.

Ultimately, we all lose too ... from the guests/fans to the cast to the Imagineers ... who wins?

I guess the same people who always do.

Oh, and as to your fireworks comment, I had to laugh. I have been arguing with a moron on another Disney site about Michael O'Grattan's decision to end Remember at DL and replace it with a new show that doesn't require a huge part of the park to close nightly. The guy actually thinks I am a Disney management apologist (or Defender of Mediocrity).

Funny stuff.

But I do agree with you. Pyro is very costly and doesn't have to be nightly. The only WDW park that has pretty much had it on a nightly basis year round is EPCOT.

But I'm not looking to give Disney advice on how to cut more. They've cut way too much already, whether people choose to acknowledge it or not.

~Time to Add Some Magic~
 

KevinYee

Well-Known Member
Joining the thread very late....

1. Disney does, indeed, pay for syrup. It's an urban legend that won't die that they get it for free.

2. It's also an urban legend that the admission tickets are cheaper than the cost of the park. On the contrary, in 1992 I saw the numbers for main gate revenues versus labor costs at Disneyland, and merely 3 days of main gate tickets would have been enough to pay Disneyland labor for the entire year.

That's probably no longer the case, what with so many multiday and annual passes, but I'll bet it's still close. The larger point is that the parks are profit machines... BIG TIME.

The largest problem here is that the insatiable demand for profit is not only *constant*, it is eternally *accelerating*, due to the nature of TWDC being a publicly-traded company. No one wants to buy a stock that isn't a growth stock, the powers-that-be think, so therefore they demand ever-better profit numbers quarter after quarter.

That squeezes the local managers, and all sorts of decisions get made to get in line: reduce portions, homogenize menus, increase prices, cut staff, operate fewer ride vehicles.... the list goes on and on.

*waves at spirit*
 

jakeman

Well-Known Member
You can spin this many different ways. Sure, your point about the dollar and its value and spending power is valid. But then you could also point out that Disney's salaries haven't kept up at all with inflation/cost of living. I remember having dinner with a Disney exec (one of the good guy's and no I won't drop his name here so my pal jake doesn't get on my case!) and he told me that if the company had increased wages to match cost of living that any CMs hired in at minimum wage in the mid-80s would be making close to $25 an hour (and this was a few years back) in the very same jobs. One might say that's fair ... that's the American way. One would also be wrong.
I would definately agree with this. Disney has banked for a very long time that, given that they are/were (debatable) the best at what they do, they can pay peanuts compared to others.

My memory is foggy, but when I worked there as a CP 10 years ago, I remember hearing that attractions cast members topped out at around $10/hour and managers started at $24k a year.

I was incredulous even then that people would work for so low a wage simply because they "loved" a company. It is also apparent that it affects the whole Orlando area. It would be interesting to see how the rest of Central Florida would be affected if Disney raised its wages to a higher level.

While those who work there choose to work there, I think Disney is doing a diservice to the area by keeping wages so low.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
I would definately agree with this. Disney has banked for a very long time that, given that they are/were (debatable) the best at what they do, they can pay peanuts compared to others.

My memory is foggy, but when I worked there as a CP 10 years ago, I remember hearing that attractions cast members topped out at around $10/hour and managers started at $24k a year.

I was incredulous even then that people would work for so low a wage simply because they "loved" a company. It is also apparent that it affects the whole Orlando area. It would be interesting to see how the rest of Central Florida would be affected if Disney raised its wages to a higher level.

While those who work there choose to work there, I think Disney is doing a diservice to the area by keeping wages so low.

Does anyone go to work at the bottom rung at WDW with the idea of climbing the corporate ladder? Seriously, a person is better off at a restaurant chain or bank or going in the military if college is not an option. WDW jobs are almost all service sector low wage jobs for young people or those seeking a second income. That is never going to change! So lets not be naive and pretend otherwise. I hate to see people think an entry level job at WDW is a long term prospect. Only in very rare instances would it be.

Just my 2 wooden nickels.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Joining the thread very late....

1. Disney does, indeed, pay for syrup. It's an urban legend that won't die that they get it for free.

Hey Kevin ... an online 'personality' makes a cameo in this MAGICal realm.

Please sit a spell. Besides, the boards on 'your' site have kinda hit rock bottom. Some troll actually has been calling me a Disney management apologist and Defender of Mediocrity!:ROFLOL::ROFLOL::ROFLOL:(look at all these kewl special effects available here too ... there's also pixie dust available!)

As to your point above. What would the Disney online world be if not for myth, rumor and legend?

Next you're going to say that Cindy's turrets can't come off for hurricanes or that the black spots on the Swan and Dolphin aren't removable for monorail stations or that River Country wasn't closed because there were killer microbes in the water!

Besides, Disney pays a pittance for the syrup ... so low (when last I heard) that free is in the neighborhood.

2. It's also an urban legend that the admission tickets are cheaper than the cost of the park. On the contrary, in 1992 I saw the numbers for main gate revenues versus labor costs at Disneyland, and merely 3 days of main gate tickets would have been enough to pay Disneyland labor for the entire year.

That's probably no longer the case, what with so many multiday and annual passes, but I'll bet it's still close. The larger point is that the parks are profit machines... BIG TIME.

I am sure that is no longer the case, even at DLR. But your point is well taken and a good one.

The parks are huge profit machines and have always been so.

When P&R struggles in 2009, it is due to reduced guest spend per click and the fact WDW operates 30,000 hotel rooms, timeshares and campsites.

Because those resort operations get mixed under the entire WDW Ops profit/revenue structure, it can certainly muddy the water when they can't fill rooms or fill them without offering 40% off and tossing in $200 (or more) in gift cards.


The largest problem here is that the insatiable demand for profit is not only *constant*, it is eternally *accelerating*, due to the nature of TWDC being a publicly-traded company. No one wants to buy a stock that isn't a growth stock, the powers-that-be think, so therefore they demand ever-better profit numbers quarter after quarter.

That squeezes the local managers, and all sorts of decisions get made to get in line: reduce portions, homogenize menus, increase prices, cut staff, operate fewer ride vehicles.... the list goes on and on.

*waves at spirit*

Sadly, that's it in a nutshell.

Ultimately, WDW is just a microcosm of the dumbing down that has happened in the USA over the past decade plus (just really accelerated the past eight years) ... of course the question is what do you do when Wall Street keeps demanding numbers that aren't realistic and you damage your 'brand' when you cut to reach them ... and it's not like Wall Street has exactly been run in a ... uhm ... ah ... fair and ethical free-market manner either.

Too late to write much more (and I had too much pasta!), but I'm glad to see you over here ... don't be a stranger. I'm sure the fanbois will love 'ya!

~WDW1974 ain't declining by degrees!~
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
I would definately agree with this. Disney has banked for a very long time that, given that they are/were (debatable) the best at what they do, they can pay peanuts compared to others.

My memory is foggy, but when I worked there as a CP 10 years ago, I remember hearing that attractions cast members topped out at around $10/hour and managers started at $24k a year.

I was incredulous even then that people would work for so low a wage simply because they "loved" a company. It is also apparent that it affects the whole Orlando area. It would be interesting to see how the rest of Central Florida would be affected if Disney raised its wages to a higher level.

While those who work there choose to work there, I think Disney is doing a diservice to the area by keeping wages so low.

I would concur.

I would add, though, that in today's job marketplace (one where CNN listed home and garden work as the No. 1 current option for jobless Americans ... just two spots up from condom manufacture and resume editor ... I kid you not, I couldn't make this crap up if I tried) many people are staying at jobs they hate.

How many people hate working at WDW? Who knows. But it's probably more than most fans would think.

I don't also buy into the theory that you work for a company just because you 'love' its creative output unless money is no option to you (even then I think it is a DUMB reason, but people are entitled to be as dumb they want).

If WDW is offering a service worker $8.50 an hour and a tee shirt and assorted crap store on I-Drive is offering $13 an hour one would be a fool to opt for the magic if all else were equal.

I also don't believe there should be ceilings on wages at WDW or elsewhere. If somone started at $4 an hour as a ride operater at MK and loves that job and works for years (decades even) they shouldn't reach say $12 an hour and 'top out' ... they should keep on getting normal increases and if that means you have someone loading Pooh for $22 an hour that's perfectly OK in my book. And I am both a shareholder and a capitalist (albeit not the kind that believes in socializing Wall Street and letting Big Wigs who should be jailed off with multi-million payouts because that sounds like something those evil Commies would do ...)

~I'd take $30 an hour to drive a boat!~
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Does anyone go to work at the bottom rung at WDW with the idea of climbing the corporate ladder? Seriously, a person is better off at a restaurant chain or bank or going in the military if college is not an option. WDW jobs are almost all service sector low wage jobs for young people or those seeking a second income. That is never going to change! So lets not be naive and pretend otherwise. I hate to see people think an entry level job at WDW is a long term prospect. Only in very rare instances would it be.

Just my 2 wooden nickels.

It sure used to be ... D-i-c-k Nunis got his start as a DL Jungle Boat skipper ... countless other execs from Jim Cora to Jack Linquist did as well.

Today's exec ranks ... folks like Al Weiss, Meg Crofton, Erin Wallace to Phil Holmes to George Kalogridis to Michael O'Grattan to to Jim MacPhee to Danny Cockerell did as well ...

Now, they all had individual reasons for their career paths advancing to where it did, but the point is Disney USED to tout that you could make a career there.

That is the American Way, right? Start on the bottom, put in your time, learn and, if you're good enough or someone takes a shine to you, you move up.

I'll grant you that today Disney doesn't want that. It wants to fly in basically slave labor from any/all corners of the globe to be mousekeepers, custodians, painters etc ... what those internationals don't fill they'd like to use with CPers and retirees and that is exactly what they've been doing.

But it didn't use to be that way.

They used to list individual retirements in Eyes and Ears because say in 1990 you might see someone retire that worked at WDW from before the place opened for the next two decades ... full-time ... with benefits ... moving up the ladder ... enjoying working for a company.

~Remember when 'W' said Americans should get used to the idea of working for many employers in their lives? I do~
 

Missing20K

Well-Known Member
I also don't believe there should be ceilings on wages at WDW or elsewhere. If somone started at $4 an hour as a ride operater at MK and loves that job and works for years (decades even) they shouldn't reach say $12 an hour and 'top out' ... they should keep on getting normal increases and if that means you have someone loading Pooh for $22 an hour that's perfectly OK in my book. And I am both a shareholder and a capitalist (albeit not the kind that believes in socializing Wall Street and letting Big Wigs who should be jailed off with multi-million payouts because that sounds like something those evil Commies would do ...)

~I'd take $30 an hour to drive a boat!~

While I agree with most of what you said, if you didn't cap wages for lower skilled and unskilled jobs, don't you think you would end up with zero turnover, and extraordinarily high labor costs? And with low turnover, and required wage increases, my guess is the chance for legacy costs would increase exponentially. I'm not anti-union or pro wall street or anything like that, but if you are unable to keep unskilled wages low, do you not feel Disney could run the risk of wages, pensions, and insurance costs crippling their business, similar to the auto industry? Not looking for an argument, just curious as to how you feel Disney could pay ride operators $22 an hour, and boat drivers $30 an hour, and get prices even lower than they currently are (which you seem to be an advocate of). If Disney is employing unskilled workers until their retirement age, my guess is their labor costs would balloon beyond control.
 

jakeman

Well-Known Member
While I agree with most of what you said, if you didn't cap wages for lower skilled and unskilled jobs, don't you think you would end up with zero turnover, and extraordinarily high labor costs? And with low turnover, and required wage increases, my guess is the chance for legacy costs would increase exponentially. I'm not anti-union or pro wall street or anything like that, but if you are unable to keep unskilled wages low, do you not feel Disney could run the risk of wages, pensions, and insurance costs crippling their business, similar to the auto industry? Not looking for an argument, just curious as to how you feel Disney could pay ride operators $22 an hour, and boat drivers $30 an hour, and get prices even lower than they currently are (which you seem to be an advocate of). If Disney is employing unskilled workers until their retirement age, my guess is their labor costs would balloon beyond control.
Perhaps, but capping wages and not providing a cost of living increase is not an ideal working situation. The simple fact is, as ugly as it is, Disney banks on their reputation to pay ridiculously low wages and does not provide increases on par with cost of living increases.

Secondly, I would venture to say based on first hand experience most of the "perks" the company offers are designed to put most of their CM's paychecks back into the parks.

When I worked as a CP'er, quite honestly, the only thing Disney ever lost from me was the part of my paycheck that went to taxes.
 

hokielutz

Well-Known Member
That's exactly what I was told that Disney operates at a loss. Based on admission alone. The other aspects is what generates the revenue.


Now that you've stated this more clearly.... I think I could agree with you, without looking at any numbers, Disney parks might be operating at a loss, just based on admission alone.
 

epcotWSC

Well-Known Member
It sure used to be ... D-i-c-k Nunis got his start as a DL Jungle Boat skipper ... countless other execs from Jim Cora to Jack Linquist did as well.

Today's exec ranks ... folks like Al Weiss, Meg Crofton, Erin Wallace to Phil Holmes to George Kalogridis to Michael O'Grattan to to Jim MacPhee to Danny Cockerell did as well ...

Now, they all had individual reasons for their career paths advancing to where it did, but the point is Disney USED to tout that you could make a career there.

That is the American Way, right? Start on the bottom, put in your time, learn and, if you're good enough or someone takes a shine to you, you move up.

I'll grant you that today Disney doesn't want that. It wants to fly in basically slave labor from any/all corners of the globe to be mousekeepers, custodians, painters etc ... what those internationals don't fill they'd like to use with CPers and retirees and that is exactly what they've been doing.

But it didn't use to be that way.

They used to list individual retirements in Eyes and Ears because say in 1990 you might see someone retire that worked at WDW from before the place opened for the next two decades ... full-time ... with benefits ... moving up the ladder ... enjoying working for a company.

~Remember when 'W' said Americans should get used to the idea of working for many employers in their lives? I do~

Unfortunately your post sums up most companies in the US today including the one I work for. They say that the large majority of the people who work here have either been here for over 20 years or less than 5 years.

Today with lack of any incentive to stick around (unless you're on the fast track), people change jobs every few years.

With companies giving loyal employees only small pay raises while hiring outside help for higher sums of money plus with no pensions or anything, it's no wonder we see the work culture that we see today.

The whole pension system is what caused people to stay at a company for so long. Even if people were getting 3% raises every year where they could get 15% in one shot by switching companies, they'd stick around because they could put in their 20+ years and have a nice fat pension. Also, as a side bonus, you could get 5, 6, 7, or even 8 weeks of vacation if you were with the company long enough. Today, my company offers new hires 3 weeks of vacation for the first 20 years, and 4 thereafter (unfortunately this is the category I fall into)... some incentive. The days of a company taking care of its employees and the employees being loyal to the company are long gone.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
It sure used to be ... D-i-c-k Nunis got his start as a DL Jungle Boat skipper ... countless other execs from Jim Cora to Jack Linquist did as well.

Today's exec ranks ... folks like Al Weiss, Meg Crofton, Erin Wallace to Phil Holmes to George Kalogridis to Michael O'Grattan to to Jim MacPhee to Danny Cockerell did as well ...

Now, they all had individual reasons for their career paths advancing to where it did, but the point is Disney USED to tout that you could make a career there.

That is the American Way, right? Start on the bottom, put in your time, learn and, if you're good enough or someone takes a shine to you, you move up.

I'll grant you that today Disney doesn't want that. It wants to fly in basically slave labor from any/all corners of the globe to be mousekeepers, custodians, painters etc ... what those internationals don't fill they'd like to use with CPers and retirees and that is exactly what they've been doing.

But it didn't use to be that way.

They used to list individual retirements in Eyes and Ears because say in 1990 you might see someone retire that worked at WDW from before the place opened for the next two decades ... full-time ... with benefits ... moving up the ladder ... enjoying working for a company.

~Remember when 'W' said Americans should get used to the idea of working for many employers in their lives? I do~

The idea that you can work for the same company all your life went out with the Pinto. Nobody owes you anything 74. If you don't get that massive chip off your shoulder it will surely drag you down.

An entry level person at WDW will need to be taking college courses to get ahead. That is what is different now than what it used to be. It is difficult for someone to "stand out" in such a large crowd. Simple as that.

WDW is not a massive jobs program. It is an amusement park more or less. And although you can still work your way up thru the ranks it will take A LOT of hard work (and college!) for someone to do so.

Basically young people have three choices to get ahead today. Go to college and get a worthwhile degree while setting yourself apart with hard work. Join the military and rise through the ranks by putting your Country first and hard work. Lastly, work for yourself and get customers by setting yourself apart by offering a quality product and hard work.

Using the "slavery" allusion is the desperate argument of the lazy and/or the incompetent. And it mocks those who actually suffered under it's horrible yoke. You should be ashamed of making such arguments. You have to be pushing 40 but you make the arguments of a rebellious teenager.

You are not here to discuss WDW News and Rumors. It's just an excuse to vent the same old tired liberal anti-capitalist dogma. So if you insist on doing so could you at least come up with an original argument or take on it. Bacause otherwise you come off as boring, programmed and possibly hypnotized.

~when I snap my fingers you will wake up~

*SNAP* :eek:
 

hokielutz

Well-Known Member
I also don't believe there should be ceilings on wages at WDW or elsewhere. If somone started at $4 an hour as a ride operater at MK and loves that job and works for years (decades even) they shouldn't reach say $12 an hour and 'top out' ... they should keep on getting normal increases and if that means you have someone loading Pooh for $22 an hour that's perfectly OK in my book. And I am both a shareholder and a capitalist (albeit not the kind that believes in socializing Wall Street and letting Big Wigs who should be jailed off with multi-million payouts because that sounds like something those evil Commies would do ...)

~I'd take $30 an hour to drive a boat!~

As ideal as this may sound, it is not realistic for the business that Disney operates. And I think this would definitely be a "Pass the Pixie Dust" moment for you.

If Disney operated a model similar to the one you are advocating, union or not, over a decade or two their costs for labor would balloon operating costs for the parks out of control. No amount of price increases for the resorts, admissions, and food & beverage could close the deficit gap that would occur. Its a sad and hard fact that the labor expense growth has to be kept in check in order for WDW's prices to continue to be a premium, but remain affordable.

At least today there are refurbishments that are being executed across the parks. If your ideal scenario were to play out, the refurbs would be limited to possibly paint touch-ups as there wouldn't be budget for any major improvements.... and you would also see the fireworks and shows start to disappear, just so the senior ride operators can continue to get pay increases rising up to the tune of $60K a year. By the way... what would happen to all management salaries, if senior ride operators make more than line management makes now?
 

epcotWSC

Well-Known Member
The idea that you can work for the same company all your life went out with the Pinto. Nobody owes you anything 74. If you don't get that massive chip off your shoulder it will surely drag you down.

An entry level person at WDW will need to be taking college courses to get ahead. That is what is different now than what it used to be. It is difficult for someone to "stand out" in such a large crowd. Simple as that.

WDW is not a massive jobs program. It is an amusement park more or less. And although you can still work your way up thru the ranks it will take A LOT of hard work (and college!) for someone to do so.

Basically young people have three choices to get ahead today. Go to college and get a worthwhile degree while setting yourself apart with hard work. Join the military and rise through the ranks by putting your Country first and hard work. Lastly, work for yourself and get customers by setting yourself apart by offering a quality product and hard work.

Using the "slavery" allusion is the desperate argument of the lazy and/or the incompetent. And it mocks those who actually suffered under it's horrible yoke. You should be ashamed of making such arguments. You have to be pushing 40 but you make the arguments of a rebellious teenager.

You are not here to discuss WDW News and Rumors. It's just an excuse to vent the same old tired liberal anti-capitalist dogma. So if you insist on doing so could you at least come up with an original argument or take on it. Bacause otherwise you come off as boring, programmed and possibly hypnotized.

~when I snap my fingers you will wake up~

*SNAP* :eek:

While I agree that one needs a college degree in today's world. Getting penny pinched by ones company after showing loyalty and then giving some other guy who is just as qualified as you who walks in the door today more money than you is garbage. That's normal practice today though. Also eliminating pensions on jobs whether they be office jobs or in this case someone who works at the park is also crap. I understand that companies need to make money, but the way companies treat their employees in today's world is nothing short of disgusting. Today, hard work gets you almost nowhere. It's who you know, not what you know and how you do it.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
While I agree that one needs a college degree in today's world. Getting penny pinched by ones company after showing loyalty and then giving some other guy who is just as qualified as you who walks in the door today more money than you is garbage. That's normal practice today though. Also eliminating pensions on jobs whether they be office jobs or in this case someone who works at the park is also crap. I understand that companies need to make money, but the way companies treat their employees in today's world is nothing short of disgusting. Today, hard work gets you almost nowhere. It's who you know, not what you know and how you do it.

I don't disagree that companies show little "loyalty" today. Or at least few do. And the best way to have the opportunity to move up through the ranks is usually with a young company. If I were a young person today I'd wake up every morning with the idea of not depending on others to get where I want. You really have to make your own way and figure out and take control of your own future. Waiting for Disney or Barrack to do it for you is going to be a long lonely wait.

I worked for a major corporation and there are unbelieveable opportunities for those who are willing to work hard and continue their education even if it is part time while you are working full time. But again to get in the door you need a degree. Disney just does not come to mind as a great place to work your way up especially if you are starting at the bottom rung.

Part of creating your future is building professional relationships and that is where the myth of "it's who you know" comes from. Networking has always been around and it always will be (including nepotism unfortunately). Just a reality of life.
 

KevinYee

Well-Known Member
Please sit a spell.

I do like to check in every so often (LOL, I just typed "chicken" instead right now, which would alter the sentence ever so much), and I prefer to click around all parts of the Internet. I fear tunnel vision more than anything, so I seek opinions (and yes, flames) from all sides. Somebody's gotta keep me honest!
 

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