Slash and Burn ...

[WDW1974]

Wow, quite a discussion. I guess I'm considered a lurker since I visit WDWMAGIC and pretty much read only, but I've been around for a while.

Here are a few comments:

I agree with WDW1974 in regards to most of the "cut backs". When the economy improves the there won't be "give backs". So the “Disney Difference” diminishes in the long term for CM’s and guests.

Again, most people don't get this.

The past decade (actually a bit longer) has been steady cutbacks in so many areas so people have become conditioned to a much lesser product being 'Disney quality' ... even facts don't seem to matter (see my park hours historical perspective thread, which basically died as soon as I put out just a few examples of how many hours have been cut from operating days)

How many people (mostly younger, but some who never visited in the 70s, 80s and into the 90s) have said 'well, I never experienced that, so I don't miss it?'

That's the exact 'tude that TDO counts on as it further WalMarts the magic.

It's been so long since the MK was spotless daily that no one here ever expects it to be more than 'cleaner than Six Flags' ... sorry, but that's not good enough.

I always thought the idea of staggered park closings could make sense if handled properly. If each park was closed one day a week wouldn’t it allow for consistent and more detailed maintenance of the attractions and facilities? I’m sure some guests would complain initially but if the parks and attractions were better maintained people could get used to say....

DHS closed Monday
EPCOT closed Tuesday
MK Wednesday
DAK Thursday

I'll just say that nothing short of a terrorist attack or major natural disaster in Florida would have MK (and likely EPCOT) closing at all. Just won't ever happen.

The closings that would likely happen if Disney went this route would be a day a week at its 3rd and 4th gates.

I think there would cost savings in this system as well. Probably have less night shift work, less daily breakdowns and such.

Ah ... that's IF Disney were closing for quality and not to simply save money on labor.

That will never happen, so don't waste your time even thinking about that.

One more comment/suggestion, maybe one or more of our knowledgeable posters could list what attractions have consistent missing effects so when the rest of us visit we can inform (complain) to guest relations so these problems are properly registered with Disney.

If DLR regular guests and pass holders hold it to a higher standard I think we should start at WDW as well.

Good idea. I'm sure there's a few local fanboys who could chronicle just how bad shape certain attractions are ... we all know about the yeti being 101 ... and the angler fish ... and the PoC projection ... and many things in Splash Mtn ... that's just a start.

But WDW's regulars will never hold the place to DL standards because many people don't know any better. How many of you were regulars when there was just the MK, four resorts and a shopping village? At DL, you have a feeling of 'ownership' (which to be fair has negative aspects as well) by people because they've gone for generations. That's why when things really got out of whack out there in the late 90s, early 00s ... people reacted with so much anger and passion and things improved in a hurry.

WDW attracts a vastly different makeup of guest ... and there are so few regulars who truly lived its amazing history and therefore understand what a lesser product is being provided these days. When you have people who think they're veterans because they vaguely recall a pink castle cake, you're in trouble.

The majority of WDW fans don't know what they're missing ... and if they don't, how do you think Joe Sixpack could?

It's a vicious cycle that allows even more magic to drop away by the day.

 

[WDW1974]

Can I come along? I'm in the area...

So long as I don't have to pay for you!!!

 

[WDW1974]

We could sell out Bank Atlantic Center...:lol:

Head to Sawgrass after...:lolThey have a Disney Character Warehouse!):lol:

Nah ... went there the other day ... nothing really worth buying.

But at least they remodeled recently and the store is no longer a little dump ... it actually feels a bit like the store in the new Orlando outlets (the ones near Universal).

 

[mcjaco]

How many people (mostly younger, but some who never visited in the 70s, 80s and into the 90s) have said 'well, I never experienced that, so I don't miss it?'

But can you blame them? If they never experienced it, they can't compare it either.

It's been so long since the MK was spotless daily that no one here ever expects it to be more than 'cleaner than Six Flags' ... sorry, but that's not good enough.

Disney is still far cleaner than Six Flags. The patronage expects it.

But WDW's regulars will never hold the place to DL standards because many people don't know any better. How many of you were regulars when there was just the MK, four resorts and a shopping village? At DL, you have a feeling of 'ownership' (which to be fair has negative aspects as well) by people because they've gone for generations. That's why when things really got out of whack out there in the late 90s, early 00s ... people reacted with so much anger and passion and things improved in a hurry.

WDW attracts a vastly different makeup of guest ... and there are so few regulars who truly lived its amazing history and therefore understand what a lesser product is being provided these days. When you have people who think they're veterans because they vaguely recall a pink castle cake, you're in trouble.

My first visit was in 1975, as an infant. We went every year until I was 18. I vividly recall the days where you went to MK one day, then went elsewhere in the state for the rest of the vacation. I stepped foot in EPCOT three weeks after opening. I remember seeing construction walls for Horizons, and The Living Seas, and being excited about what WDI was cooking up behind those walls.

 

[spectrodanny]

Isn't Phil "Ebinezer Scrooge" Holmes to be blamed for some of this? MK is his park right?

 

[jt04]

My first visit was in 1975, as an infant. We went every year until I was 18. I vividly recall the days where you went to MK one day, then went elsewhere in the state for the rest of the vacation. I stepped foot in EPCOT three weeks after opening. I remember seeing construction walls for Horizons, and The Living Seas, and being excited about what WDI was cooking up behind those walls.

Yes! Those construction walls can be the best marketing tool Disney has in it's arsenal. I think they are relearning the value of anticipation to spur future guest visits. Kinda the "Christmas Eve" effect people experience. :xmas:

 

[WDW1974]

I know I've brought this up before at TPR, but this is where I have an issue. Horizons was gone by the time you were nine. World of Motion by age seven or eight. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not sure you could call that exposure. My first ride on Horizons was at age seven. Is it foggy and clouded with nostalgia? You bet. But I also rode it for the next 15 years. Even Horizons started to show it's age by the end. That's exposure.

Good point. You can have memories and the like about old attractions ... I still can recall my first gos on Space Mountain, PoC, Mansion, Small World ... and the one that truly scared me ... Snow White!

But it's still not the same as being older or growing up with something.
I remember Horizons when it was a grassy berm. I remember it when it was a construction site behind light blue walls. I remember when I rode it in the early 90s and a friend of mine freaked out with something I labeled HAS (Hysterical Attraction Syndrome!) ... oops, that one didn't need to be mentioned.

I was at EC on Opening Day ... I've spent more days there than in any Disney park by far. I know the place inside and out as a teen and adult.

That's not to disparage Adam's memories or anyone's ... you just have to put things in perspective.

I'd rather see kids with being emotional about the parks now, than complacant. It's why the parks are in trouble now. We need fresh blood that want the parks raised to a higher standard, ones that were there when we were kids.

Totally agree with that.

I love to see passion. I just fear things will drop further when that passion is used to defend Disney management's short-sighted decisions that are eating away at the magic for all of us.

 

[Enigma]

Just to inform whoever it was who asked earlier in the thread the redo of Journey into imagination has been cancelled I just confirmed it with someone who works with WDI.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Ooooh don't even compare Disney to Six Flags. While the Disney brand has been steadily watered down for years, Six Flags has taken a nosedive of epic proportions over the last decade or so. Six Flags parks are not clean, have far more ridiculous policies than Disney (e.g. mandatory lockers), their food is terrible and (!) more expensive than Disney! Going to Six Flags this year made me appreciate that Disney still does a lot of things right. Regardless of the cutbacks, I can still ride my favorite ride (ToT), which surprisingly has received some audio upgrades despite other cutbacks elsewhere.

 

[WDW1974]

I just want to know how Journey Into Imagination 4.0 would fit into all of this. Is this still coming soon, would this go on hold even though there has supposedly been a good amount of prep work put into it?

I am still trying to find out that answer, but I am 99% sure that it has been tabled.

Prep work doesn't seem to matter.

Do you know how much money they spent on Monsters so far?

What about Star Tours 2.0? That baby is ready to start construction and NONE of the four parks currently want to start it. Latest on that is DLP is most likely to take the plunge first.

The amount of money Disney has spent on attractions that may never see the light of day at WDW is absolutely staggering.

 

[WDW1974]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DisneyMusician2
Upon opening and for many years, DL was closed two days a week for necessary maintenance.

I think it would be an enormous cost-saver and would help keep the parks in the condition we are used to seeing them in.

Yeah, in the 50's and 60's. Do you know how much more cranky people have gotten since then? Closing even one of the parks on any day=Trouble.

DL closed Mondays and Tuesdays in the offseason well into the 1980s ... it was a few years AFTER Michael Eisner came to head Disney that he decreed the park would be open seven days a week.

Walt actually had a gentleman's agreement with Walter Knott whereby Knott's Berry Farm closed on Wednesdays and Thursdays so visitors to the area would always find a park open.

And when DL closed it wasn't like there was another Disney option.

WDW has four parks. If only three (including the all-important MK) were open say two days a week with the other five days seeing all parks open it really wouldn't be that big a deal for most people.

 

[WDW1974]

Well, do you know how cranky people get when rides are constantly breaking down at least in part because of cuts in maintenance? My most recent day trip saw SSE, TT, Peoplemover, Space Mtn, and COP all experiencing significant breakdowns. And not to mention the other effects (Nemo's angler fish, e.g.) and escalators (Land, TTA Speedramp) that were broken. We didn't even consider going to DAK that day because we knew Everest/Yeti would be running even though it deserves to be 101. All that crap makes me pretty cranky and makes me second-guess spending massive amounts of money to go back to WDW.

But I guess the moral of the thread is this: I should resent having gone to the parks in the 80s and 90s because those visits conditioned me to expect great things, "Disney details". If my first trip had been in 2008, maybe I would think the overflowing trashcan in the HM queue looked magical! At least, that seems to be the young Jedi's opinion...

That's what I find so scary ... I'll repeat it ad nauseum here (and elsewhere) ... too many of today's fans are fans of a WalMarted product and don't even realize it.

They don't understand that in the 1980s if an attraction like Everest was in the condition it was in show quality would dictate that it not be opened until it was fixed. It wouldn't run. Period. Now, attractions run FOR YEARS in embarrassing shape (the Mansion was a great example of this .. Space Mountain is now).

So many things are allowed to 'slip' these days that people don't realize/don't care that this isn't how Disney is supposed to operate ... that many of us know it, even if the just-hired CMs don't.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Nah ... went there the other day ... nothing really worth buying.

But at least they remodeled recently and the store is no longer a little dump ... it actually feels a bit like the store in the new Orlando outlets (the ones near Universal).

Nah...I saw a few things. :lol:

And the new store is very nice, yes.

Just to inform whoever it was who asked earlier in the thread the redo of Journey into imagination has been cancelled I just confirmed it with someone who works with WDI.

Yeah, I'm just gonna not believe that.

 

[imagineer boy]

Ooooh don't even compare Disney to Six Flags. While the Disney brand has been steadily watered down for years, Six Flags has taken a nosedive of epic proportions over the last decade or so. Six Flags parks are not clean, have far more ridiculous policies than Disney (e.g. mandatory lockers), their food is terrible and (!) more expensive than Disney! Going to Six Flags this year made me appreciate that Disney still does a lot of things right. Regardless of the cutbacks, I can still ride my favorite ride (ToT), which surprisingly has received some audio upgrades despite other cutbacks elsewhere.

This is true as well. Things are bad at Disney now, but they could be worse.

 

[Enigma]

Nah...I saw a few things. :lol:

And the new store is very nice, yes.



Yeah, I'm just gonna not believe that.

You dont have to just ask the insiders (aside from adam)

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

You dont have to just ask the insiders (aside from adam)

Sir, you proved my point.

Why is he the only one still being possitive about the whole thing?I know why. The rest of you...I dunno. Yeah, times are tough and things WILL BE DELAYED but I really don't think it's that serious. At least not yet. Disney still has a chance to correct the problem.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Sir, you proved my point.

Why is he the only one still being possitive about the whole thing?I know why. The rest of you...I dunno. Yeah, times are tough and things WILL BE DELAYED but I really don't think it's that serious. At least not yet. Disney still has a chance to correct the problem.

I'm sure anyone with a brain will agree with you that cutbacks are necessary with the current economic situation. The problem is that Disney's "temporary cutbacks" have a track-record of becoming permanent in many cases.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I'm sure anyone with a brain will agree with you that cutbacks are necessary with the current economic situation. The problem is that Disney's "temporary cutbacks" have a track-record of becoming permanent in many cases.

True...But I was not referring to that.

I'm mainly talking about new rides...TLM, SM & JII.

I strongly believe that these will happen in the next 3/4 years for the 40th. I don't see how they couldn't do SOMETHING.

 

[ToTBellHop]

True...But I was not referring to that.

I'm mainly talking about new rides...TLM, SM & JII.

I strongly believe that these will happen in the next 3/4 years for the 40th. I don't see how they couldn't do SOMETHING.

I couldn't see them doing NOTHING either...I could see them doing less than was originally planned, though. It's getting to the point where if they don't start construction soon, they couldn't get a major E-Ticket up and running by 2011. Disney tends to have a 3-year turn-around for E-Tickets...and it's almost 2009. Tick, tock, tick, tock.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I couldn't see them doing NOTHING either...I could see them doing less than was originally planned, though. It's getting to the point where if they don't start construction soon, they couldn't get a major E-Ticket up and running by 2011. Disney tends to have a 3-year turn-around for E-Tickets...and it's almost 2009. Tick, tock, tick, tock.

Exactly...I think we will start to see things soon...hopefully.

If we don't, then this is all warranted. We can become Negativity and WalMarting Central. But let's not jump the gun.