Slash and Burn ...

[captainkidd]

At this rate Disney will be bankrupt in a year's time and will be bought out by another corporation.

Yeah - That's exactly what is going to happen.

 

[kennygman]

This is a basic fallacy and it's not just you ... this is what the MBAs, consultants and managers spew forth at TDO.

It's just not true.

The average guests who aren't Disney nuts, but visit once in five years for a nice family vacation ... well, they do notice. Talk to people staying at a Disney resort by the pool or in the jacuzzi or at the bar or on a monorail or bus ... you hear people saying things that should scare the pooh out of any Disney exec because people see that the magic isn't quite what it once was. And they're the ones who won't return and drop another $8,000 on a magical WDW vacation.

They don't need to worry about people here. Most will go no matter what.

I was one of the first 3,000 people to ever own a WDW AP ... do you think I'm going to give it up? I may go less (which I do) and I may vent more on sites like this (which I do) and I may spend far less there (which I definitely have been doing) but they've got me.

I've had too many great times at WDW and can still have a wonderful time at places like DAK and EPCOT to not go back.

It's the regular Joe and Jane Average that they need to be concerned about. They're the ones who notice the nickel and diming, the cutbacks, and the lack of magic.

I thought this was a pirate thread! :ROFLOL:
First, this whole thread sounds a lot like Kevin Yee of miceage.
Second, I've been to WDW many times and never spent $8000 on a vacation there including airfare.
We go often. We enjoy the parks. We do notice when little things are cut out, but our first time friends never do.

 

[maggiegrace1]

I will allow this ing match to continue as long as you all remember to keep it civil. No personal attacks of any type, no insults, etc.

I have better things to do than watch you guys (as this thread has been dominated by males and their chest pounding :lol try to impress each other with your knowledge.

:ROFLOL::ROFLOL::ROFLOL::ROFLOL:
That right there is funny..:lol:

 

[JWG]

Disney is all about immersion. That's why The Living Seas was so much more successful than The Seas With Nemo. That's why folks stand in line hours for things like Splash Mountain or PoC or Mansion, but walk by things like SGE or MILF or Imagination 3.0.

You can't cut the details because my friend, the details are exactly what set Disney apart from everyone else.

I have to agree with this 100%.
Disney seems to now be relying on their name and brand in other divisions (movies, characters, etc.) to draw interest and not the quality and level of detail in the parks.

I did Universal in 2007 and wasn't sure I'd go back because of the difference in quality between Disney and them, but that gap is closing and as Universal comes up and Disney comes down, I'm likely to start splitting my time more evenly. I've been to WDW, more recently, in 1998, 2000, 2001, 2005, 2007 and going in 2009 and 2010. I've been to Universal in 2000, 2001 and 2007 with no plans for 2009 and we'll see about 2010. So I visit Disney 1.75 to 2.33 times more often than Universal currently. 2000 and 2001 were specifically tied to Islands of Adventure. 2007 was to revisit Universal Studios which I hadn't been to since 1980-something.

Universal is the perfect example, today, of why I do Disney more and for more days. Islands of Adventure was the same in 2007 as it was in 2000. So I had not motivation to go (and didn't). When Potter opens, I have reason again. And with some new work at Universal, including the Simpsons, I have reason to give the Studios a visit, too. When I do go back, I'll probably for the first time ever, buy a multi-day ticket and maybe even stay on their property. That will directly steal time away from Disney as my vacation won't be any longer.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but as the Disney difference does slide closer and closer to that of Universal and Sea World I find I'm more willing to go off property.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Yep. He went there....

Seriously...had to wipe Diet Coke off my monitor after that one.:wave:

Ok...here's what we do.
Adam, get in the car and head down the turnpike to the south end of our lovely state. I'll take you and 74 to dinner and watch ya'll banter back and forth. Way fun.

Can I come along? I'm in the area...

 

[TarzanRocked99-]

I have to agree with this 100%.
Disney seems to now be relying on their name and brand in other divisions (movies, characters, etc.) to draw interest and not the quality and level of detail in the parks.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but as the Disney difference does slide closer and closer to that of Universal and Sea World I find I'm more willing to go off property.

Hopefully you are not the minority, because unless Disney starts seeing actual Decline in attendance while the competition sees Inclines they are not going to change. The whole mentality of Walt Disney Worlds management is that the guests are going to come regardless so why put more into it than absolutely needed. The saddest part of all of it is that a good majority of cast members are so convinced of Disney's vast superiority to everything else in Orlando that they cannot even see the competition creeping up on them.

 

[TarzanRocked99-]

That's something I just don't get. No one in Orlando seems ready or willing to take on Team Disney Orlando for the slide in showmanship and quality there. No one.

You hit the nail on the head. The problem lies in the fact that Disney is a much more influential power player in the Orlando area than out in LA. Disney helped create this town and they have a lot of people and businesses in their back pockets including the Orlando Sentinel which will squash any negative story before it gets printed unless its actual news. If I thought for one second that they would print my opinions I would sit here in my office today and come up with a very well written article to submit.

 

[Lee]

Can I come along? I'm in the area...

Sure. Might sell tickets....

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Sure. Might sell tickets....

We could sell out Bank Atlantic Center...:lol:

Head to Sawgrass after...:lolThey have a Disney Character Warehouse!):lol:

 

[Astro_Digital]

Wow, quite a discussion. I guess I'm considered a lurker since I visit WDWMAGIC and pretty much read only, but I've been around for a while.

Here are a few comments:

I agree with WDW1974 in regards to most of the "cut backs". When the economy improves the there won't be "give backs". So the “Disney Difference” diminishes in the long term for CM’s and guests.

I always thought the idea of staggered park closings could make sense if handled properly. If each park was closed one day a week wouldn’t it allow for consistent and more detailed maintenance of the attractions and facilities? I’m sure some guests would complain initially but if the parks and attractions were better maintained people could get used to say....

DHS closed Monday
EPCOT closed Tuesday
MK Wednesday
DAK Thursday

I think there would cost savings in this system as well. Probably have less night shift work, less daily breakdowns and such.

One more comment/suggestion, maybe one or more of our knowledgeable posters could list what attractions have consistent missing effects so when the rest of us visit we can inform (complain) to guest relations so these problems are properly registered with Disney.

If DLR regular guests and pass holders hold it to a higher standard I think we should start at WDW as well.

It is called freedom, if I only had one day to spend as I often do I want to pick the park I want to visit that day. I have meetings Thursday, Friday and got to be home Saturday, but I have Wednesday..... Sorry sir because of budget cut back the Magic Kingdom is closed !!!!

I be more than a little annoyed I would never go back again. I do not plan my life around my vacations.

 

[mcjaco]

I grew up on classic immersive attractions like Horizons, Journey into Imagination, World of Motion and Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, so my exposure to such detail is real.

I know I've brought this up before at TPR, but this is where I have an issue. Horizons was gone by the time you were nine. World of Motion by age seven or eight. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not sure you could call that exposure. My first ride on Horizons was at age seven. Is it foggy and clouded with nostalgia? You bet. But I also rode it for the next 15 years. Even Horizons started to show it's age by the end. That's exposure.

...or talk ad nasuem about tiny changes in SSE's descent tunnel.

This made me giggle.

That's fine. I'm over twice your age. I don't think I'll be around as long as you and I don't believe I can change the world anymore, but it's always good to see that 'tude in young people. You have the rest of your life to become bitter and disenchanted and you will! I'd just like some more E-tickets before I hit middle age ... you know the little things in life

I'd rather see kids with being emotional about the parks now, than complacant. It's why the parks are in trouble now. We need fresh blood that want the parks raised to a higher standard, ones that were there when we were kids.

 

[devoy1701]

Wow..there is so much going on in this thread...no point in getting into the great debate when I'm 11 pages behind in the topic anyway..but I will pick up on this part of it.

Not sure I'm following.

WDW's operating budget comes from their admissions. You can't just send over that cash to DLR. And vice versa.

Makes sense. I just think that because WDW is so unique that it would be nice if it could operate totally independent on the financial side of it. But I am not so naive as to think that would ever happen. It should though.

This is true for the most part. From the way I understand it, although WDW is part of the Disney Company, aside from WDI and WDTC, WDW opperates completely independently in terms of budgets, funding new expansions, attractions, personnel, etc. WDW is the only resort the company owns that is currently self sufficient. This point came up when we were all talking about the California Adventure expansion and how the company was pouring $1+ Billion into that park and why WDW doesn't get that kind of love from the Company...it's simply because DL and the other resorts for that matter doesn't have the revenue of WDW and can't support themselves AND expand on the resort simultaneously...

I have read that when the company takes in profits, they are not linked to one resort and can be applied to any part of the company. The DLR 50th budget didn't come from just DLR admissions, there is no way they could have pulled together such a large budget so quickly.

And what of the capital to build other resorts? It must come from resort areas of the company.

This is true, but like I said, none of the other resorts are self sufficient for operations and expansions.


And someone mentioned why not sell off ABC and some other assets...please remember that the Walt Disney Co acquired a majority of its extra assets because of a very close call of a hostile takeover in the 80s (remember Saul Steinberg). This includes other movie studios, television studios and stations, radio stations, real estate companies, ca greeting card company, etc... Having many assets like the Disney Co does not only makes it revenues diverse but also protects it from another possible attempt...we'd rather ABC or ESPN or SoapNet be liquidated than the Animation Studio or deciding what resort should be kept and which should be sold. It's a good thing the entire market is down since no one would have the money to attempt a takeover...but even before the economy tanked, DIS was hovering at only about $33.00/share....that's pretty low considering it was up near $80.00/share in the early 80s...

 

[mickeymouse2818]

I think shutting down the parks for a day a week is ridiculous in my opinion. I believe the company would lose alot more money by being shut down for a day than having minor cutbacks (and when I mean minor, I mean in the "detail effects"). There is so much money flowing into the company when you start to factor in merchandise profits, food and beverage, and ticket sales that will be lost on when that particular park is not open. And closing the Magic Kingdom for a day a week, please tell me you are joking. The Magic Kingdom is the resort's bread and butter. Imagine when you have to tell your child that he/she can't go to the Magic Kingdom because its closed that day. Not to mention the parks help evenly (or not so evenly) help distribute guests through the four parks. If you were to close the Studios on a certain day, those crowds who would have been at studios are now "crowding" the other parks, making for long lines, and disgruntled guests.

While I think that the first post is a tad extreme, it does have elements of truth in them. I can see them opening World Showcase later in the day say around noon, than 11:30am. I can see DAK opening at 10am and closing at 5pm. I can see certain attractions going seasonal, because some of these cutbacks will happen during the off season, where the attendance is low. These cutbacks won't be present during, say the summer months where the parks will reach capacity and over in some cases. While we may have to experience these inconviences short term, hopefully we'll be able to see them again once the econmony balances out.

 

[Mr.EPCOT]

I just want to know how Journey Into Imagination 4.0 would fit into all of this. Is this still coming soon, would this go on hold even though there has supposedly been a good amount of prep work put into it?

I always thought the idea of staggered park closings could make sense if handled properly. If each park was closed one day a week wouldn’t it allow for consistent and more detailed maintenance of the attractions and facilities? I’m sure some guests would complain initially but if the parks and attractions were better maintained people could get used to say....

I'm not sure whether it's a good idea or not, but I just can't imagine being a front-line Cast Member saying "Oh, I'm so sorry, Disney's Hollywood Studios isn't open today..."

 

[DisneyMusician2]

I just want to know how Journey Into Imagination 4.0 would fit into all of this. Is this still coming soon, would this go on hold even though there has supposedly been a good amount of prep work put into it?



I'm not sure whether it's a good idea or not, but I just can't imagine being a front-line Cast Member saying "Oh, I'm so sorry, Disney's Hollywood Studios isn't open today..."

Upon opening and for many years, DL was closed two days a week for necessary maintenance.

I think it would be an enormous cost-saver and would help keep the parks in the condition we are used to seeing them in.

 

[captainkidd]

Upon opening and for many years, DL was closed two days a week for necessary maintenance.

I think it would be an enormous cost-saver and would help keep the parks in the condition we are used to seeing them in.

Won't ever happen. No one in charge could possibly be that stupid. There's too much competition around.

 

[EpcotServo]

Upon opening and for many years, DL was closed two days a week for necessary maintenance.

I think it would be an enormous cost-saver and would help keep the parks in the condition we are used to seeing them in.

Yeah, in the 50's and 60's. Do you know how much more cranky people have gotten since then? Closing even one of the parks on any day=Trouble.

 

[Mr.EPCOT]

I know I've brought this up before at TPR, but this is where I have an issue. Horizons was gone by the time you were nine. World of Motion by age seven or eight. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not sure you could call that exposure. My first ride on Horizons was at age seven. Is it foggy and clouded with nostalgia? You bet. But I also rode it for the next 15 years. Even Horizons started to show it's age by the end. That's exposure.

There's know way of knowing, though, how it would be if Disney had properly maintained and updated the pavilion. Horizons could have been to EPCOT (and still is to me) what The Haunted Mansion or Pirates of the Caribbean is to The Magic Kingdom and especially Disneyland. They should have plussed Horizons in the same vein as they have with HM and PotC over the years, whether it had a sponsor or not, and it probably would have then maintained a similar ridership. Yeah, it really started to show its age at the end, but I don't think that would have been the case if they had, say, gave the AA's new, different costumes, update the narration, dialogue, and Omnimax movie, even replace the furniture and decor in the four different destinations. Wouldn't even have to do everything at once: change the costumes one year, replace one of the segments in the Omnimax movies the next year, etc.

 

[imagineer boy]

I just want to know how Journey Into Imagination 4.0 would fit into all of this. Is this still coming soon, would this go on hold even though there has supposedly been a good amount of prep work put into it?

They're probably not going to build it unless it has marketable characters and the "most advanced screen technology."

Seriously, what's so "advanced" about it? Its nothing different than what you'd see at a movie theater! I honestly don't get why Disney hypes this up so much. I just want to see a good old fashioned animatronics based attraction again. But the way the company is acting, it won't happen for a while.

 

[TalkingHead]

Yeah, in the 50's and 60's. Do you know how much more cranky people have gotten since then? Closing even one of the parks on any day=Trouble.

Well, do you know how cranky people get when rides are constantly breaking down at least in part because of cuts in maintenance? My most recent day trip saw SSE, TT, Peoplemover, Space Mtn, and COP all experiencing significant breakdowns. And not to mention the other effects (Nemo's angler fish, e.g.) and escalators (Land, TTA Speedramp) that were broken. We didn't even consider going to DAK that day because we knew Everest/Yeti would be running even though it deserves to be 101. All that crap makes me pretty cranky and makes me second-guess spending massive amounts of money to go back to WDW.

But I guess the moral of the thread is this: I should resent having gone to the parks in the 80s and 90s because those visits conditioned me to expect great things, "Disney details". If my first trip had been in 2008, maybe I would think the overflowing trashcan in the HM queue looked magical! At least, that seems to be the young Jedi's opinion...