Seven Dwarf's Mine Train ride expectations?

[bubbles1812]

I don't know why you take this so personally. I wasn't talking down to you in any way. I was applying something that I am familiar with to making my hypothesis about the expectations of 7D mine train, which is the topic of this thread. Someone who is further along in the field that I am currently studying should understand where I am coming from in my analysis, and not be so sensitive to everything. I don't "really want to go there" as you suggested. And what is wrong with assessing situations like this thread by using methods of hypothesis you have acquired elsewhere? That's all I did, nothing more, nothing less.

In regards to people who say "disney is doing great things", that's an opinion not a fact. If they say disney is doing great things because of A, B, C, then it's less of an opinion and more of a fact because they have provided evidence for their statement. If they are passing off "great things" as a fact, then they are wrong, becasue as I said, greatness can be two different definitions for two different people. And any future projects I have heard on here being discussed besides Avatar are hypothetical things people wish the parks would get, like an expanded Pixar Place, Star Wars Land, Austrailia in AK, etc. Those are just suggestions for future projects. I've never heard anyone pass those things off as facts. I've only heard fan speculation and rumor so far. Making the same arguement I am making towards people with hope and speculation of future projects by telling them they don't have facts to support their claim is not necessary. Being a rumor or an aspiration already addresses the notion that there are no facts to back up those statements. But I don't hear people trying to pass off Pixar Place expansion as a fact. I could be wrong, but from what I have seen it's all just rumors.

And I haven't been on this site long enough (not even a month) to know who is trusted and who is not. So for the time being, I am going to take the "facts" that posters claim with no sources of support other than themselves, with a grain of salt. If I see a pattern of good posts, then I'll certainly be more inclined to believe what they say because they have proven themselves trustworthy.

First...hey Lee! Right on time. I know you haven't exactly been on here long space, though in all reality, I haven't been on much longer than you. But Lee and other Insiders have posted numerous times and many posters (whatever side they are on) have for the most part shown a lot of respect to the information they provide. You seem observant and I mean that as a compliment so it's surprising you haven't picked up on some of who is trustworthy and who is not already. Like I said, I wasn't making up those facts...read Lee's post.

Secondly, that's fine you want to use something you've learned in school. Actually, I think that's great. And I understand the way you were analyzing things totally. BUT...you basically came across as playing the "I've started college, I'm awesome, and no more than people on here" card. I'm not saying you were but stating things the way you did would have been like me saying "I'm an M3 medical student and on the first day of Anatomy I learned this this and this and this method is the correct way to do things." Sorry. That's how I perceived it and I apologize if it wasn't meant to come across that way. But there honestly was no reason you needed to say you were pre med or that you took biology to make your point.

Lastly, regarding my bolded part...apparently you haven't met JT or a couple other posters here yet. There are plenty of examples where it's been said "this or that" project has been happening when there is absolutely no evidence to the contrary. I'm sure it happens with people saying projects about Universal too...but for the most part, the projects that people have brought up in these threads are actually happening. People who are trusted and who do have access to that information have given confirmation...now, yes, you still have to take all info with a little grain of thought, but again, these are people who have probed their information worthy many many times.

Of course it's fun to speculate about whatDisney could do/is capable of doing, but again, they are just speculation. And really, that's what a lot of peoples' point is... Disney has no projects going beyond Avatar. Universal has several big confirmed projects. And you wonder why people worry/speculate that Disney could eventually be passed by, especially if they keep on the pattern they have of minimizing projects, not green lighting projects, and expressing a desire to cut down (again that IS a fact...Iger has stated that is what the next few years at Diseny are going to be focusing on. Cutting down and minimizing expenditures)

 

[spacemt354]

Ahem!

Kidding.
Just recently found this in a box while moving. Maybe I should make it my avatar...

Congratulations! And I mean that sincerely.

Although I may not agree with all of your statements and you with mine, I do appreciate the models, graphs and information that you provide. I've only had a small sample size of this site, but I do truly thank you for your informative posts and insight.

 

[dreamscometrue]

No, it is a fact that the track is not going to be long. That is based on the ride's layout, not on any assumptions.
Not sure how that wouldn't be a fact....

Not sure what your point is there.
I am in possession of at least three versions of the ride's plan, dating back over a few years.
The ride has gotten progressively shorter, and some show has been eliminated along the way.
This is fact. That the earlier designs were never released to the public should in no way negate the fact that the ride has...ummm...for lack of a better term, shrunk. That's like saying that we shouldn't be disappointed in Space Mountain's refurbishment, just because we never got to see the original plan. Nonsense.

And I must add, I don't expect it to be a poor addition to the park. It will certainly be the best thing in all of Fantasyland. (A definate improvement over the mega M&Gs.)
But for anyone to even insinuate that it is an E+ is just absurd. What would that make Splash or ToT? E++++?

I think you should make that your avatar...congrats on your award!

I have a comment in regards to the 7DMT plans and your reference to the SM refurb. Most (all?) who are disappointed with the SM refurb are people 'in the know' who are aware of what it maight have been, as a result of being involved in the project or learning of plans from people such as you and Martin. It's cool that you have this insider info, and I enjoy reading it, but I'm okay with the refurb because relative to what was there before, it's quite a bit better imho. If we are disappointed by what might have been (if we are even aware in the first place) with respect to any thing in life, we can drive ourselves bonkers.You know: "If only our hockey team had landed this goalie, if the new museum hadn't had its budget slashed by $5 million, if our office had hired that manager, if our city would have been selected for the new IMAX we were expecting instead of the smaller theater upgrade...if, if, if...". What a crappy way to go through life.

Most people likely wander around in their daily lives oblivious to what might have been all around them...at their local supermarket, airport, school, mall. amusement park, zoo, etc. A very, very, very small percentage of WDW guests (or those at any theme park) ever have any idea of what the potential was for any of the attractions. They simply judge based on what was actually created. Even of the few who do know what plans initially were, some will be disappointed by what could have been, but many are probably like me. In the real world, budgets get changed, plans and personnel change and I judge what actually exists.

 

[lazyboy97o]

And what is wrong with assessing situations like this thread by using methods of hypothesis you have acquired elsewhere? That's all I did, nothing more, nothing less.

There are two problems. The first is rather minor, but the manner of presentation was quite arrogant. Second, you are trying to force the methodology of the hard sciences onto something that is more of a social science. I understand wanting to see who is trusted, but if you have yet come to that point, then observe, study and ask questions. Do not try to assert a methodology that will never be satisfied.

Even just the official information on the Seven Dearfs Mine Train shows a short attraction. We can see the model that is on display at One Man's Dream.

 

[spacemt354]

There are two problems. The first is rather minor, but the manner of presentation was quite arrogant. Second, you are trying to force the methodology of the hard sciences onto something that is more of a social science. I understand wanting to see who is trusted, but if you have yet come to that point, then observe, study and ask questions. Do not try to assert a methodology that will never be satisfied.

Even just the official information on the Seven Dearfs Mine Train shows a short attraction. We can see the model that is on display at One Man's Dream.

Again, I didn't mean it an arrogant way. It might sound that way to some, but really I was only trying to give some background as to why I was using a scientific method. Anyway, imo, although the scientific terms are not used in social science as much as they are in hard sciences, the concepts are still there. An expectation is a hypothesis. The experiment is riding the attraction to test the hypothesis. That's what I was saying. Do we have you use those scientific terms? Of course not. I was only trying to relate it to something that I was familiar with.

And my methodology will be satisfied in time. It's not gonna be years. I'm not as slow as Disney is at construction when it comes to realizing a trusted source or not. But it's gonna take more than a month. I'm not going to discard what everyone says, that'd be very close-minded. But I don't see what's wrong with, for the time being, understanding that the information being provided on this site might be hyperbole, it might be understatements, or might be spot on. I don't want to accept something just because someone say's he/she is reliable. I'd rather find out for myself. And by studying, I'm not going back through thousands of posts to find those who can be trusted. If they are trusted, then they will prove themselves time and time again in the future, just like they did in the past.

 

[unkadug]

You can call it an expansion if you wish, but I don't... it is land reclamation... The land being built on was already used as part of Fantasyland... They are only reusing it... If you owned 12 acres of land and built a house... Then knocked down the house to build another one, are you expanding your land??? No... Isn't this what they are doing there??? 20K shut down years ago (part of Fantasyland)... Pooh Play Area took over that spot... Ariel's Grotto closed (part of Fantasyland)... in these places are Beauty and the Beast and the Mermaid ride... Not really an expansion... It is land Fantasyland had already used...

People don't have to agree with me, I really don't care.. But that is how I see it... Not expanding the land at all, just reclaiming land they already used... Now, it if became part of Tomorrowland, then I'd say expansion since Tomorrowland would be expanding...

To a point..yes. But there is a great deal of land now being used that was NEVER accessible to any guest. All the land behind Ariel's Grotto all the way to Magic Kingdom Drive and east over to the edge's of the old 20K is new land that was NEVER part of the park itself.

So...there is an element of expansion involved.


Another point: This land will accommodate a lot more people than 20K ever could have thought about. So, it is an expansion of capacity as well.

 

[Captain Chaos]

To a point..yes. But there is a great deal of land now being used that was NEVER accessible to any guest. All the land behind Ariel's Grotto all the way to Magic Kingdom Drive and east over to the edge's of the old 20K is new land that was NEVER part of the park itself.

So...there is an element of expansion involved.


Another point: This land will accommodate a lot more people than 20K ever could have thought about. So, it is an expansion of capacity as well.

It is land re-purposing... Land that was once previously used for Fantasyland being used for Fantasyland... That isn't expansion...No matter how people want to spin it...

And why are they adding capacity??? Mismanagement of the parks right??? But that isn't what was being discussed... This is land re-purposing, land reclamation, nothing more... But like I said before, I really don't care if people agree or not... This to me is NOT an expansion...

 

[unkadug]

It is land re-purposing... Land that was once previously used for Fantasyland being used for Fantasyland... That isn't expansion...No matter how people want to spin it...

And why are they adding capacity??? Mismanagement of the parks right??? But that isn't what was being discussed... This is land re-purposing, land reclamation, nothing more... But like I said before, I really don't care if people agree or not... This to me is NOT an expansion...

The land where BatB is located was NEVER part of the theme park. It was NEVER used for public access from inside the park. It was backstage areas that are now onstage areas...therefore expansion.

 

[dreamscometrue]

It is land re-purposing... Land that was once previously used for Fantasyland being used for Fantasyland... That isn't expansion...No matter how people want to spin it...

And why are they adding capacity??? Mismanagement of the parks right??? But that isn't what was being discussed... This is land re-purposing, land reclamation, nothing more... But like I said before, I really don't care if people agree or not... This to me is NOT an expansion...

You always 'sound' angry. Even moreso when you're wrong, as in this case.

 

[Captain Chaos]

You always 'sound' angry. Even moreso when you're wrong, as in this case.

Who is mad??? No one is mad... I don't view this as an expansion... it is reclaiming land they once used... And no, I don't care if people agree with me or not... No one is mad...

 

[unkadug]

Who is mad??? No one is mad... I don't view this as an expansion... it is reclaiming land they once used... And no, I don't care if people agree with me or not... No one is mad...

I know you're not mad...but how did they EVER use the land that I'm talking about? They DIDN'T, that's how.

 

[GoofGoof]

It is NOT a crime to like both places or to think that one is doing a better job with development/projects/spending money to improve their respective parks.:

An excellent point that most people on both sides seem to forget. These discussions seem to become all about WDW vs Universal or WDW vs DCA. When we get something new to enjoy at any of these parks I am happy. In reality they could all spend very little on new additions and still make tons of money. Think about how the airlines handle customers. The best thing to happen to Orlando in recent history is Harry Potter. It really upped the bar for everyone. Who cares about offense or defense as long as both teams are playing. The point is we are getting new attractions at Universal, WDW and DL so the competition is great. The fantasy land expansion/repurposing is still something new to enjoy and in my opinion looks pretty solid. It may not be Harry Potter 2.0 but it is better than toon town and a ride that was vacant for decades.

 

[Tom]

The land where BatB is located was NEVER part of the theme park. It was NEVER used for public access from inside the park. It was backstage areas that are now onstage areas...therefore expansion.

True. Magic Kingdom proper has been expanded by way of this project via most of the BatB facility.

As for the arguments about them "adding capacity" - that's like my boss reducing my salary by $10,000 ten years ago, reducing it another $5,000 last year....then increasing it $10,000 this year and bragging that he gave me a raise.

 

[WDW1974]

If I recall correctly, and I believe I do...
The mine train was designed years ago for another spot in the expansion. It was cut early on, then revived when the decision was made (rightly) to eliminate the Giant Meet & Greets of Doom.
Since a version was already in development for Shanghai, it was an easy fall-back move.

Ah, old chum, I think you may be mistaken here ... I have seen artwork (like the stuff that used to be ... may still be on the construction walls) that has the date 2009 on it. This little train attraction is shown where it currently is. Now, it coulda been moved at some point. I don't really care. ... As you know, and as I discussed with my therapist last Friday, I am just broken up that I am not going to be able to color with Princess Aurora to celebrate her 16th B-Day.

Oh, and ya wanna bet the attraction is better in Shanghai?

 

[WDW1974]

Pretty much what Lee says. I think!

And yes, who in their infinite stupidity would plan and allow for a fun but mediocre, short and lacklustre attraction in one of the most prominent positions in the MK?

It's like building the Space Mountain show building and installing just a spinner.

Plus you can forget the majestic sightlines to the wonderfully detailed and majestic exterior of AUA.

You sound so much like ... like me ... you deserve a vacation. Go to DLP this week! Have a phenomenal time! Watch out for illegal soft drink refill police at the new Earl of Sandwich at the Village. Don't go visit the resorts beyond Sequoia or you may be very depressed.

 

[WDW1974]

Lol... Someone on his podcast said 7D would be an E+.... someone has overdosed on the pixie dust LOL...

Little lawyer fella from NJ with a stop in Naples (witness protection?) who enjoys many 'favors' from WDW Co's Social Media Dept?

The man has no cred whatsoever.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Little lawyer fella from NJ with a stop in Naples (witness protection?) who enjoys many 'favors' from WDW Co's Social Media Dept?

The man has no cred whatsoever.

Lou's opinion's not withstanding, he has a strong grasp on Disney history and those shows are definitely worth listening to.

 

[WDW1974]

Give you three guesses, and no, it wasn't Ricky or Corliss.. I don't listen to Corliss' podcast... Spirit probably would guess it in one shot...

Please ... I don't even need one. Ricky plays the nice guy. Corless plays the psycho brat who thinks he is smarter than everyone else despite being all of 20-something. Who else does that leave? (yeah, I know about 179 others probably!)

 

[WDW1974]

Is it so wrong to love both Disney and Universal?

I dunno ... is it? That sorta makes one a bi-parks fan ... what did HSM teach us about the best of both worlds (was that a subliminal message)?

 

[WDW1974]

No offence taken.

Have you seen the night time show. I haven't, but from what i saw on Youtube, and in talking with the people who have seen it, it seems very underwhelming. I actually expected much more. People on here trash TDO for overhyping stuff, but I thought this was going to be something spectacular at Uni. It doesn't seem like this is the case at all. I think some people on here are becoming 'Uni pixed dusted', as it were. If it's fair to trash WDW and TDO, I think some 'WDW fans' on here who hold Disney to a high standard, need to be fair and admit all Uni offerings aren't amazing either.

I've heard very mixed things about the night show, but most agree it is far better than anything UNI has attempted, but not on par with say RoE.

If you think any of us 'critics' here view either company (or SW Parks as well) as anything but imperfect, you'd be mistaken. There are things they all do well and things they don't. The biggest issue WDW fans have now is that Disney is treating the parks like an ancillary business to timeshare sales, McMansion sales, filling a hotel chain, selling Dining packages etc ... and not investing in them like the treasure they are.

UNI is far from perfect.

As to DM, I haven't heard yet how it is. But I never viewed it as much more than a C-D Ticket type of attraction. If it succeeds on that level, then I will be fine with it. I never thought that much of the other rides that stood there before. Hopefully, this is the best of the bunch.