Seven Dwarf's Mine Train ride expectations?

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
The competition has caught up with Disney. If this were 1999 you might have a point, but it has past. The competition is doing work once seen as the sole domain of Disney, not just in Orlando but globally. Disney may still have the best numbers, but in terms of artistry they are very much part of the pack.
 

td1129

Well-Known Member
Yeah... I'm soooooooo jealous that Disney is putting in a new spinner (or well, really just a replica of an old spinner), a replica of a not popular ride from California, and what looks to be a roller coaster that may be a step above Barnstormer at worst and a step below Big Thunder at best (Yes, I will be fair and reserve final judgment until I actually ride the thing, but I call it like I see it and that's what I've seen so far) ... While in about two years time I'm going to get two huge E tickets plus all the other fun things they are adding (stores, possible other smaller attraction, unique merchandise ect) at HP 2.0. Plus the other big projects (note, that is plural, not singular) Universal has coming up over the next 5 years or so. And maybe during that time, Disney will finally get Avatar built, though considering the mine train is taking to 2014, I'm not exactly optimistic about their building speed.

It is NOT a crime to like both places or to think that one is doing a better job with development/projects/spending money to improve their respective parks. If Disney were doing what Universal was doing, they would get the higher praise from me. As it were, they are not. :rolleyes:
Yeah... I'm soooooooo jealous that Disney is putting in a new spinner (or well, really just a replica of an old spinner), a replica of a not popular ride from California, and what looks to be a roller coaster that may be a step above Barnstormer at worst and a step below Big Thunder at best (Yes, I will be fair and reserve final judgment until I actually ride the thing, but I call it like I see it and that's what I've seen so far) ... While in about two years time I'm going to get two huge E tickets plus all the other fun things they are adding (stores, possible other smaller attraction, unique merchandise ect) at HP 2.0. Plus the other big projects (note, that is plural, not singular) Universal has coming up over the next 5 years or so. And maybe during that time, Disney will finally get Avatar built, though considering the mine train is taking to 2014, I'm not exactly optimistic about their building speed.

It is NOT a crime to like both places or to think that one is doing a better job with development/projects/spending money to improve their respective parks. If Disney were doing what Universal was doing, they would get the higher praise from me. As it were, they are not. :rolleyes:

Was talking about the people displaying their insecurity by needlessly bashing the guy with the prominent podcast.
 

td1129

Well-Known Member
The competition has caught up with Disney. If this were 1999 you might have a point, but it has past. The competition is doing work once seen as the sole domain of Disney, not just in Orlando but globally. Disney may still have the best numbers, but in terms of artistry they are very much part of the pack.

Sure you aren't talking about Motion Simulator Studios?
 

bubbles1812

Well-Known Member
The old sports analogy. Offense sells tickets, but defense wins championships.

New places like Potter 2.0 might get people's interest, but as you already said, people don't like only Universal or Disney. A lot of people like both. And a lot of people will still go to disney because they enjoy it. Disney is already #1 and being that, the one thing you can play is defense. Running up the score would be nice in this case, but being #1 gives you the benefit of reacting to what the competition does. Imagineers never stop creating. Projects could be going on right now that we won't see for another few decades. And Disney World will never stop growing. That is their philosophy, and whether you want to agree that the expansions are good or not is a different conversation. They haven't stopped playing offense, not by a long shot. The offense they produce you may not like, but that doesn't mean it's not offense.

Defense wins championships. Although you may think I'm crazy for thinking that, it holds true. Disney is in the driver's seat. They are the best right now. The competition is trying to keep up with them. So they attempt to match whatever the competition throws out there. Again, you as an individual might think the attractions don't cut it, but maybe others do. And Disney still produces offense and has managed to sustain the number 1 vacation destination throughout the years with that philosophy.

Yes, but if you continue to play prevent defense eventually you lose...it would seem you might watch some football...and playing "not to lose" rather than to "win" rarely works that well. I've seen many a team lose a game because they went into prevent mode. Right now the majority of their philosophy at TDO is to hunker down, do as minimal spending as possible, and cut back...this is not something I'm making up. Bob Iger himself even stated that the focus right now is to be about making cuts. That's prevent mode in my book. And it's pretty easy sometimes for other teams to catch up when you don't keep pushing forward. And right now...the other team is making touchdowns...between HP 2.0 and the many other (note that is plural, not singular). Disney may be still playing offense to a degree but they are making field goals at best (the only major project going after NFE is Avatar).

You are right, they could have projects going on that we won't see for another few decades...but there is the key in your wording: another few decades. By the time another few decades rolls around, Disney may very well have let a competitor slide by. They are the best right now, I'll give you that but again the competition is making leaps and bounds (and at this point I'm not even talking about Universal though obviously them too) to get up to that Disney standard. They might not be there yet but it is a real possibility they will get there soon, particularly since you just said "Disney attempts to match" whatever they do. Universal added an entire land. Disney added an expansion of a land that isn't going to include 1 E ticket...E tickets aren't everything but they sure bring in the crowds even at the prices that Disney demands. Universal is going to add another land. As is Disney (maybe). But Disney is going to take 5 years to build that sucker and it's not because they want to do a super extra good job. It's because they are that slow. In that time, Universal will have completed their land in 2 years and moved on to their other major projects (and yes, they are major). Meanwhile, Disney in that time is going to continue their philosophy of making cuts...unless TDO/managment drastically changes in Burbank, that is what you get.
 

bubbles1812

Well-Known Member
Umm..no. It skips around. It's not the full length. I would watch it again if I were you.
Ok. Sorry. I did watch it and it does skip a bit. But I still stand by my post. We still know way more about this ride than just the "Trailer." That little video features much of what the ride will be. Maybe not all of it. But a lot of it. It was longer than 30 seconds bud. And again, we have seen more about it in other places as well and seen Imagineers talk about it. Go look at that other video about the construction in NFE... the theming looks great, it truly does. But that building is not that big. The tracks is not going to be that long...there's a fact for you. The reduced the proposed track by 30%. They cut out show scenes. These are facts. Now I will wait and reserve my full judgement on the ride just for you, but again, we can make educated guesses based on what has been presented so far.
 

bubbles1812

Well-Known Member
Was talking about the people displaying their insecurity by needlessly bashing the guy with the prominent podcast.
My apologies then. Sorry. Though I think it was more to just point out that he called it an E ticket when all evidence points to the contrary. Ad it is well known and well discussed that Disney often gives men/women of this type perks in exchange for very good PR/overhyping.
 

Kuhio

Well-Known Member
Tortoise and the Hair. Yes, Walt Disney World may be the long time champ but competition only means something if it is taken seriously. Walt Disney World is not trying to stay on top, they are napping, arrogantly confident that the gap will never close. That is not a recipe for something better, only disaster. Plenty of companies have been the long reigning king of their industry only to fall well below their height or, even worse, cease to exist.

Dizneymandias
I met a traveler from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of fiberglass
Stand in Central Florida. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And Mickey ear hat, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its Imagineer well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Walt Disney World, king of theme parks:
Look on my works, ye Fanboys, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch all the way
To Universal and SeaWorld, which had
Record-setting attendance last quarter.
 

dreamscometrue

Well-Known Member
Dizneymandias
I met a traveler from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of fiberglass
Stand in Central Florida. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And Mickey ear hat, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its Imagineer well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Walt Disney World, king of theme parks:
Look on my works, ye Fanboys, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch all the way
To Universal and SeaWorld, which had
Record-setting attendance last quarter.

(Conversation deep within my brain after reading the above post)

1st bundle of neurons: What the hell was that?
2nd bundle of neurons: I think that was supposed to be poetry.
1st bundle of neurons: Perhaps. I read a book about that sort of thing once.
2nd bundle of neurons: Are you sure it was a book? Are you sure it wasn't...nothing?
1st bundle of neurons: Oh yeah.
 

Ignohippo

Well-Known Member
This is a discussion for another thread, but Uni is making a huge misstep with their land usage. There are things they could do to absolutely bury WDW (LegoLand on property and a Hogwarts Hotel would have been two of them) but a couple of new hotels is not the way. That land is WAY too valuable.

Sure, the hotels are definitely needed, but they should be shoe-horned in with another park or, at the very least, massively themed to the properties they have rights to.

A Hogwarts Hotel would be packed every single day (no matter how big they build it) and would get a lot of people staying at Uni instead of WDW.
 

GLaDOS

Well-Known Member
This is a discussion for another thread, but Uni is making a huge misstep with their land usage. There are things they could do to absolutely bury WDW (LegoLand on property and a Hogwarts Hotel would have been two of them) but a couple of new hotels is not the way. That land is WAY too valuable.

Sure, the hotels are definitely needed, but they should be shoe-horned in with another park or, at the very least, massively themed to the properties they have rights to.

A Hogwarts Hotel would be packed every single day (no matter how big they build it) and would get a lot of people staying at Uni instead of WDW.

The Hogwarts hotel would never happen. JKR wouldn't have any of that. The hotel their building is an important and necessary step on land that was always intended to be a resort.

They know what they're doing. Just sit back and watch. All will become clear...in time.
 

spacemt354

Chili's
It was longer than 30 seconds bud. And again, we have seen more about it in other places as well and seen Imagineers talk about it. Go look at that other video about the construction in NFE... the theming looks great, it truly does. But that building is not that big. The tracks is not going to be that long...there's a fact for you. The reduced the proposed track by 30%. They cut out show scenes. These are facts. Now I will wait and reserve my full judgement on the ride just for you, but again, we can make educated guesses based on what has been presented so far.

Sorry.. 35 seconds of ride, my bad! When I said literally, I was speaking about the literal presense of a trailer for the ride, not the exact length, that was only based off of my memory, which was obviously off by 5 seconds.

Anyway, in regards to your other "facts" about the 7DMT, I am a pre-med student, and on the first day of Biology class we learned about the steps of writing a scientific research paper. As any good scientist knows, a fact can only be justified if it is cited by a credible source. If you don't cite well-known sources to support your facts, then those "facts" you claim to be true aren't really supported by any evidence other than your own. To say that the track is not going to to be long is not a fact, that is a prediction based on what you have seen. And what you think is long and what someone else thinks is long might be two different things. I'm not saying that 7DMT is going to be the length of Everest, nor am I disagreeing that the track won't be long. All I'm saying is that "fact" can be up to an individual's interpretation. In addition, the reduced track and cutting out of shows scenes may be true, but those plans you talk about were never announced to the public with concept art and so on. Just like people are doubting Avatar because they haven't seen concept art yet, I'm doubting that expansive ride you are taking about, because I didn't see any concept art. Not saying that you're lying, but these are not facts if there is no credible evidence to back it up other than what people claim to be true. Where is the concept art? I haven't seen it. You talk about it, others do too, but I have to take what you are saying with a grain of salt knowing that there may have been those big plans in the past, but the only public announcements from disney regarding the FLE was the M&G + Pixie Hollow plan, as well as the plan that is being constructed today.

And yes, of course you can make educated guesses, that's what a hypothesis is for in a scientific research paper. I've made educated guesses as well. I don't think 7D going to be BTMR and nor would I want that. What would be the point another long mine train ride that would be similar in length to a classic mine train ride that is already in the park? I don't know how that would work. My hypothesis is that 7D is going to fall somewhere in between BTM and Barnstormer, leaning more towards BTM, which is not far off from what others have said. I think that is great for the MK. Now they would have a kiddie coaster (Barnstormer), a medium sized coaster (7D), a full length coaster (BTM), a flume ride (Splash), and a full on thrill coaster (Space Mountain). They would have covered all the bases, and i think that is a good thing.

But in order to test that hypothesis and develop a conclusion, experiments have to be made (a la actually riding the attraction.) That was my point, and I thank you that you will reserve full judgement just for me.
 

Captain Chaos

Well-Known Member
It seems like you have already given this expansion, yes it is an expansion, a critic already just based on things you have read or heard. I don't judge an entire movie based on it's trailer. The trailer doesn't tell the whole story. It might make you interested or uninterested, but you have to see it to make a final opinion. And as of right now for the mine train, we've only seen the trailer, (literally a 30 sec trailer), of what this attraction is going to be. So until I see the whole movie (or attraction in this case) I'm going to reserve my full opinion.

You can call it an expansion if you wish, but I don't... it is land reclamation... The land being built on was already used as part of Fantasyland... They are only reusing it... If you owned 12 acres of land and built a house... Then knocked down the house to build another one, are you expanding your land??? No... Isn't this what they are doing there??? 20K shut down years ago (part of Fantasyland)... Pooh Play Area took over that spot... Ariel's Grotto closed (part of Fantasyland)... in these places are Beauty and the Beast and the Mermaid ride... Not really an expansion... It is land Fantasyland had already used...

People don't have to agree with me, I really don't care.. But that is how I see it... Not expanding the land at all, just reclaiming land they already used... Now, it if became part of Tomorrowland, then I'd say expansion since Tomorrowland would be expanding...
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Anyway, in regards to your other "facts" about the 7DMT, I am a pre-med student, and on the first day of Biology class we learned about the steps of writing a scientific research paper. As any good scientist knows, a fact can only be justified if it is cited by a credible source. If you don't cite well-known sources to support your facts, then those "facts" you claim to be true aren't really supported by any evidence other than your own.
This is an industry that likes to cover itself in secrecy. You are not going to find everything cited for you. If this is what you are searching for you might as well give up, because it is not going to happen.
 

bubbles1812

Well-Known Member
Sorry.. 35 seconds of ride, my bad! When I said literally, I was speaking about the literal presense of a trailer for the ride, not the exact length, that was only based off of my memory, which was obviously off by 5 seconds.

Anyway, in regards to your other "facts" about the 7DMT, I am a pre-med student, and on the first day of Biology class we learned about the steps of writing a scientific research paper. As any good scientist knows, a fact can only be justified if it is cited by a credible source. If you don't cite well-known sources to support your facts, then those "facts" you claim to be true aren't really supported by any evidence other than your own. To say that the track is not going to to be long is not a fact, that is a prediction based on what you have seen. And what you think is long and what someone else thinks is long might be two different things. I'm not saying that 7DMT is going to be the length of Everest, nor am I disagreeing that the track won't be long. All I'm saying is that "fact" can be up to an individual's interpretation. In addition, the reduced track and cutting out of shows scenes may be true, but those plans you talk about were never announced to the public with concept art and so on. Just like people are doubting Avatar because they haven't seen concept art yet, I'm doubting that expansive ride you are taking about, because I didn't see any concept art. Not saying that you're lying, but these are not facts if there is no credible evidence to back it up other than what people claim to be true. Where is the concept art? I haven't seen it. You talk about it, others do too, but I have to take what you are saying with a grain of salt knowing that there may have been those big plans in the past, but the only public announcements from disney regarding the FLE was the M&G + Pixie Hollow plan, as well as the plan that is being constructed today.

Oh man...first, since you apparently really want to go there...hey, that's great your pre-med...I'm a third year medical student who started rotations this past month. I'm not saying that makes me better than you by saying that. I'm just saying, please don't talk down to me like I don't know about the scientific method. I've actually made your same arguement towards many of the people who say "Disney is doing great things" and they are going to do this project and this project and this project all in the next five years or so, blah blah blah. But then there is absolutely nothing to support those statements...not from news sources, not from Insiders. Nothing.

The track is not going to be that long. You may think that's open to interpretation and thats fine. But there are maps out there with the scale of the track on it. There is also the picutre of the building and also video of the bulding...it's frame is up. Now the whole track isn't going into the building, yes, I know, but again, the building can be reasonably taken as the scale of the project. That's logic.

You can doubt what the scale of the project is, that's fine. But it doesn't change the fact that the tract was reuced by about 30% or that originally planned show scenes were removed. I'm not pulling these things out of my butt. Heck, on my own, of course I don't have much credibility to spout off these facts...I don't work for Disney. I'm not an Insider. BUT, Lee, who has a ton of credibility on this board, even from the people who think disney can do know wrong, along with the others who work for/with/are invovled in disney have all stated these FACTS numerous times. Now you don't have to take their word, and all things should be taken with a little grain of salt, but again, they are privy to a lot more info and are considered trustworthy by many and have proved that they are trustworthy many times over.

And I don't doubt Avatar because I haven't seen concept art...though it has been a year and you'd think we'd seen something by now. But again, that's not why I doubt the project. I doubt it because again, many people who would actually be in the know and have proven their credibility have said it could be doubtful it's happening or at least to expect a probably scaled down project (again, a probably really reasoable inference considering that is what TDO does on every project in recent years).

And yes, of course you can make educated guesses, that's what a hypothesis is for in a scientific research paper. I've made educated guesses as well. I don't think 7D going to be BTMR and nor would I want that. What would be the point another long mine train ride that would be similar in length to a classic mine train ride that is already in the park? I don't know how that would work. My hypothesis is that 7D is going to fall somewhere in between BTM and Barnstormer, leaning more towards BTM, which is not far off from what others have said. I think that is great for the MK. Now they would have a kiddie coaster (Barnstormer), a medium sized coaster (7D), a full length coaster (BTM), a flume ride (Splash), and a full on thrill coaster (Space Mountain). They would have covered all the bases, and i think that is a good thing.
You seem to think I think 7DTR is going to be terrible. I don't actually think that. I've never actually said that ever. I think the whole of NFE could be better ceratinly though. Again, I don't just want half of Disney's potential, I'd like to see their full potential (ie, what they actually could have done with the original budget. You can be totally satisfied with that half potential...me, I hold Disney to a slightly higher standard than that. So sue me. I'm sure 7DMT will be nice but again, nice doesn't mean they reached anywhere towards what they could have. But that's all a moot point at this point in time. What we see is what we are going to get. And what I see based on all the infoormation presented to be so afar and there has been a lot more than just a 35 second trailer) that has allowed me to make an educated guess hasn't impressed me all that much

But in order to test that hypothesis and develop a conclusion, experiments have to be made (a la actually riding the attraction.) That was my point, and I thank you that you will reserve full judgement just for me.
I will do that. I'm reasonale and realize I can't pass full jedgement until I read the thing. But again, I'll keep making educated guess based on all the info.
 

Grumpy1973

Active Member
You can call it an expansion if you wish, but I don't... it is land reclamation... The land being built on was already used as part of Fantasyland... They are only reusing it... If you owned 12 acres of land and built a house... Then knocked down the house to build another one, are you expanding your land??? No... Isn't this what they are doing there??? 20K shut down years ago (part of Fantasyland)... Pooh Play Area took over that spot... Ariel's Grotto closed (part of Fantasyland)... in these places are Beauty and the Beast and the Mermaid ride... Not really an expansion... It is land Fantasyland had already used...

People don't have to agree with me, I really don't care.. But that is how I see it... Not expanding the land at all, just reclaiming land they already used... Now, it if became part of Tomorrowland, then I'd say expansion since Tomorrowland would be expanding...

I agree with you 100%... It's only an "expansion" to anyone born after 1994 (or 89 I guess as I remember very little before age 5 myself, lol), I vividly remember riding 20K and to me this is a "re-purpose" of land that should have been done a long time ago, shouldnt have sat empty for as long as it did, and I am looking forward to seeing how they re=purposed it finally 18 years later...
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
This is a discussion for another thread, but Uni is making a huge misstep with their land usage. There are things they could do to absolutely bury WDW (LegoLand on property and a Hogwarts Hotel would have been two of them) but a couple of new hotels is not the way. That land is WAY too valuable.

Sure, the hotels are definitely needed, but they should be shoe-horned in with another park or, at the very least, massively themed to the properties they have rights to.

A Hogwarts Hotel would be packed every single day (no matter how big they build it) and would get a lot of people staying at Uni instead of WDW.

Absolutely! It's a sure win. Great idea! I've often wondered why WDW doesn't use hotel theming better. Sure, the Polynesian and the Grand Floridian are quite nice, but why not a Haunted Mansion hotel, or a Castle hotel, or a Toontown hotel? Hotels that scream "Disney" but not in a tacky way (my apologies to All-Star Movies :p )?
 

Ignohippo

Well-Known Member
Absolutely! It's a sure win. Great idea! I've often wondered why WDW doesn't use hotel theming better. Sure, the Polynesian and the Grand Floridian are quite nice, but why not a Haunted Mansion hotel, or a Castle hotel, or a Toontown hotel? Hotels that scream "Disney" but not in a tacky way (my apologies to All-Star Movies :p )?

They're moving in that direction with the new Art Of Animation resorts. There's a place for everything. Some hotels should have massive theming, many should have some, and some shouldn't have any at all.
 

spacemt354

Chili's
Oh man...first, since you apparently really want to go there...hey, that's great your pre-med...I'm a third year medical student who started rotations this past month. I'm not saying that makes me better than you by saying that. I'm just saying, please don't talk down to me like I don't know about the scientific method. I've actually made your same arguement towards many of the people who say "Disney is doing great things" and they are going to do this project and this project and this project all in the next five years or so, blah blah blah. But then there is absolutely nothing to support those statements...not from news sources, not from Insiders. Nothing.

I don't know why you take this so personally. I wasn't talking down to you in any way. I was applying something that I am familiar with to making my hypothesis about the expectations of 7D mine train, which is the topic of this thread. Someone who is further along in the field that I am currently studying should understand where I am coming from in my analysis, and not be so sensitive to everything. I don't "really want to go there" as you suggested. And what is wrong with assessing situations like this thread by using methods of hypothesis you have acquired elsewhere? That's all I did, nothing more, nothing less.

In regards to people who say "disney is doing great things", that's an opinion not a fact. If they say disney is doing great things because of A, B, C, then it's less of an opinion and more of a fact because they have provided evidence for their statement. If they are passing off "great things" as a fact, then they are wrong, becasue as I said, greatness can be two different definitions for two different people. And any future projects I have heard on here being discussed besides Avatar are hypothetical things people wish the parks would get, like an expanded Pixar Place, Star Wars Land, Austrailia in AK, etc. Those are just suggestions for future projects. I've never heard anyone pass those things off as facts. I've only heard fan speculation and rumor so far. Making the same arguement I am making towards people with hope and speculation of future projects by telling them they don't have facts to support their claim is not necessary. Being a rumor or an aspiration already addresses the notion that there are no facts to back up those statements. But I don't hear people trying to pass off Pixar Place expansion as a fact. I could be wrong, but from what I have seen it's all just rumors.

And I haven't been on this site long enough (not even a month) to know who is trusted and who is not. So for the time being, I am going to take the "facts" that posters claim with no sources of support other than themselves, with a grain of salt. If I see a pattern of good posts, then I'll certainly be more inclined to believe what they say because they have proven themselves trustworthy.
 

Lee

Adventurer
To say that the track is not going to to be long is not a fact...
No, it is a fact that the track is not going to be long. That is based on the ride's layout, not on any assumptions.
Not sure how that wouldn't be a fact....
In addition, the reduced track and cutting out of shows scenes may be true, but those plans you talk about were never announced to the public with concept art and so on.
Not sure what your point is there.
I am in possession of at least three versions of the ride's plan, dating back over a few years.
The ride has gotten progressively shorter, and some show has been eliminated along the way.
This is fact. That the earlier designs were never released to the public should in no way negate the fact that the ride has...ummm...for lack of a better term, shrunk. That's like saying that we shouldn't be disappointed in Space Mountain's refurbishment, just because we never got to see the original plan. Nonsense.

And I must add, I don't expect it to be a poor addition to the park. It will certainly be the best thing in all of Fantasyland. (A definate improvement over the mega M&Gs.)
But for anyone to even insinuate that it is an E+ is just absurd. What would that make Splash or ToT? E++++? :rolleyes:
 

Lee

Adventurer
And I haven't been on this site long enough (not even a month) to know who is trusted and who is not.
Ahem!

Kidding.
Just recently found this in a box while moving. Maybe I should make it my avatar...
 

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