Scooter accident

[Bacon]

A Scooter accident, you say???
View attachment 148960

Now thats why muppet vision had to go under refurb alot

 

[jloucks]

How is this any different than a 250lb person walking and stepping on a child's foot and causing damage? Do people need "license plates" ? A large person could harm a child's foot and easily slip away in the crowd.

You can bet your muffin basket if I full sprint down a sidewalk and plow into a child, I could be sued for medical bills. ...and would likely lose and pay for them. Even if the kid 'darts' in front of me. The kid has ZERO responsibly to be wary of a 250 pound idiot running down a crowded sidewalk. I could try to blame them and say they should have seen me, but that is called victim blaming, and it is wrong.

As to the above question, I am a 250 pound person, here are some ways walking on a sidewalk is different than driving on one...

1) I have sensors in my feet. If I step on anything (at walking speed), I know it before my full weight is sent to my foot. In all of my almost 50 years of life, I have never moderately/severly injured a child by running into them or them running into me. Cat not as lucky, because I swear he tries to get under foot, and then moves to get under any corrective motion. Getting under a corrective motion is more likely to get stomped than under a regular motion (balance and control issues experienced during corrective action). During regular motion, lots of pinpoint control ability!

2) my feet are large, my toes (also equipped with sensors) will generally impact/detect something prior to the lowering of the foot. In the event the step is perfectly timed and there is no toe impact to signal a warning, then see #1. Toe impact signals knee flex and immediate motion cessation and/or foot retraction and lowering. Lots of failsafes in place.

3) the primary weight bearing portion of a foot is the heel, except in a step-off position. It is fairly hard to stomp something on accident since you would have to be accelerating to do it. ...or backing up.

4) large people are, well, soft and squishy. If you walk into me, I can assure you it is not gonna hurt. ...unless you are 6'4 and our teeth/skulls hit. In theory we could knock our teeth out, but has never even been close to happening. Kids do plow into me (esspecially when they are running around crazy, like kids do). I am almost always at a complete stop when they do. If not stopped (rare), see #1, 2 & 5. I have mastered the 'rebound' catch. They sink deep into my fat, and on they way back out, I catch them. ...unless they hit my butt, I am pretty good and preventing falls, or at least controlling them.

5) I can stop on a dime. (Walking forwards at normal speed)

Electric vehicles do not have sensors. Nor do they 'stop on a dime' apparently. Nor are they soft and squishy. Nor can they catch a kid. Nor do they have failsafes. They are way more dangerous than a fat man on foot.

Many people seems to selectively ignore the fact that when everyone has the right of way (pedestrian sidewalks), and the party the commits the frontal impact is always at fault. Period. The impactor blaming the impactee is just crazy victim blaming. Safe speed and distance are the ONLY factors in a EQUAL right of way impact scenario. And in this scenario ANY speed or distance the results in an impact is not safe. There is always a safe speed and distance, and you're not practicing either if you hit a 'darting' child. People 'darting' in front of you is not an excuse as they are well within their right to do so. In fact, you have to assume as much. They will dart. Plan for it.

 

[DisneyJoe]

You can bet your muffin basket if I full sprint down a sidewalk and plow into a child, I could be sued for medical bills. ...and would likely lose and pay for them. Even if the kid 'darts' in front of me. The kid has ZERO responsibly to be wary of a 250 pound idiot running down a crowded sidewalk. I could try to blame them and say they should have seen me, but that is called victim blaming, and it is wrong.

As to the above question, I am a 250 pound person, here are some ways walking on a sidewalk is different than driving on one...

1) I have sensors in my feet. If I step on anything (at walking speed), I know it before my full weight is sent to my foot. In all of my almost 50 years of life, I have never moderately/severly injured a child by running into them or them running into me. Cat not as lucky, because I swear he tries to get under foot, and then moves to get under any corrective motion. Getting under a corrective motion is more likely to get stomped than under a regular motion (balance and control issues experienced during corrective action). During regular motion, lots of pinpoint control ability!

2) my feet are large, my toes (also equipped with sensors) will generally impact/detect something prior to the lowering of the foot. In the event the step is perfectly timed and there is no toe impact to signal a warning, then see #1. Toe impact signals knee flex and immediate motion cessation and/or foot retraction and lowering. Lots of failsafes in place.

3) the primary weight bearing portion of a foot is the heel, except in a step-off position. It is fairly hard to stomp something on accident since you would have to be accelerating to do it. ...or backing up.

4) large people are, well, soft and squishy. If you walk into me, I can assure you it is not gonna hurt. ...unless you are 6'4 and our teeth/skulls hit. In theory we could knock our teeth out, but has never even been close to happening. Kids do plow into me (esspecially when they are running around crazy, like kids do). I am almost always at a complete stop when they do. If not stopped (rare), see #1, 2 & 5. I have mastered the 'rebound' catch. They sink deep into my fat, and on they way back out, I catch them. ...unless they hit my butt, I am pretty good and preventing falls, or at least controlling them.

5) I can stop on a dime. (Walking forwards at normal speed)

Electric vehicles do not have sensors. Nor do they 'stop on a dime' apparently. Nor are they soft and squishy. Nor can they catch a kid. Nor do they have failsafes. They are way more dangerous than a fat man on foot.

Many people seems to selectively ignore the fact that when everyone has the right of way (pedestrian sidewalks), and the party the commits the frontal impact is always at fault. Period. The impactor blaming the impactee is just crazy victim blaming. Safe speed and distance are the ONLY factors in a EQUAL right of way impact scenario. And in this scenario ANY speed or distance the results in an impact is not safe. There is always a safe speed and distance, and you're not practicing either if you hit a 'darting' child. People 'darting' in front of you is not an excuse as they are well within their right to do so. In fact, you have to assume as much. They will dart. Plan for it.

The point I was making was ONLY about identification of the person involved, walking or on the scooter, see reference to "license plate" and the previous post. I agree 200% with all of your points. I never said the child was at fault. You obviously have issues to launch into a rant like that. Step back, relax, take a breath.

 

[Variable]

Course has been run, horse beaten dead

 

[Hockey89]

Already taking care of that. Don't want, need money, just would like to bring it to someone's attention. Maybe get new regulations on scooters.

I have witnessed and almost got hit by these people... They think they can just run you over...

 

[Hockey89]

Oh where in the heck did the OP say anything that would provoke this knee jerk rant? Questioning the speed of something doesn't have ANYTHING to do with this. And to imply blame to a parent or child that they should " pay attention..." and "Take responsibility for ourselves" is just trollish. Lot of people trying to shoehorn their agendas or drama into a question.

Nothing.... I've watched and almost got run over because some people using them think they are special and you should get out of their way...Fact not opinion...

 

[GrammieBee]

I have witnessed and almost got hit by these people... They think they can just run you over...

Almost doesn't count. SERIOUSLY, who the heck are "these people"? Do you mean the 1% who are careless idiot drivers? Or are you talking about all of us who try very hard to be responsible drivers and due to mobility issues actually need a scooter to visit the Disney parks?

The horse may be dead, but I would like to add a final side note to the subject. If you have to quickly stop when a child darts close in front of you and you give that child "The Look", they KNOW they should have been more careful, .(You can tell by the look on their face.) On the other hand, when an adult does the same thing, the idea of being careful never enters their head. The scooter driver has to be at fault for being there..

 

[Hockey89]

Almost doesn't count. SERIOUSLY, who the heck are "these people"? Do you mean the 1% who are careless idiot drivers? Or are you talking about all of us who try very hard to be responsible drivers and due to mobility issues actually need a scooter to visit the Disney parks?

The horse may be dead, but I would like to add a final side note to the subject. If you have to quickly stop when a child darts close in front of you and you give that child "The Look", they KNOW they should have been more careful, .(You can tell by the look on their face.) On the other hand, when an adult does the same thing, the idea of being careful never enters their head. The scooter driver has to be at fault for being there..

Almost definitely counts when you have to jump out of the way...And it's way more than 1%...

 

[Goofyernmost]

I have witnessed and almost got hit by these people... They think they can just run you over...

Bull!

 

[Aristocatsmarie]

Everyone thinks they are "special" when they are at Disney because they are on vacation. People who have a medical condition and really need the scooters like myself are trying to enjoy our vacation just as much as the next folk is, but we have a responsibility to watch where we are going and as does the general public. For the most part scooter drivers do watch where they are going. I have had plenty of experiences where someone just suddenly walked right in front of me and I had to swerve to miss hitting them because I knew I couldn't stop in time. I always ask politely to pass people in a store and if i can't stop for some reason I warn people and I think a lot of scooter users are the same way.

 

[Polydweller]

This is an interesting predicament... I realize that your daughter was mildly hurt, and that's very unfortunate in and of itself. But, I wonder -- what if the injuries were severe? Say a broken bone or worse? Now, technically, Disney didn't cause the injury; the scooter driver did (hypothetically of course). But, Disney does authorize people to use motorized vehicles on its private property without requiring the scooters (at least as far as I know) to have an identifiable feature (such as a license plate) so that a guest could report or act on misbehavior. If they are going to allow them on the property without requiring the operators to make themselves identifiable for liability purposes, then I do question if Disney has made itself liable?

Disney has no liability here. They have to allow scooter use to comply with access laws and license plates are only required by law if used on roadways. If they are going to be used on roads then it is the scooter owner's responsibility to properly license it. And finally it's totally the scooter driver to operate it safely.

It's no different than any other vehicle on property. Disney has no responsibility for the safe operation and legality of your car, truck, SUV, motor home or whatever. They don't authorize anything they just allow scooters because they have to.

 

[Goofyernmost]

You should have knocked that women right out of her scooter and stomped her out.

Or they should have figured out that the first reaction of a person that is about to accidentally hit someone is to yell out "watch out". Again the overwhelming chances are that the little girl literally moved in front of the scooter at the last moment. The girl didn't do that on purpose, but the lady on the scooter didn't either. I have said it a thousand times and I will say it again... When in Disney... stay out of the lakes and pay real close attention to the area around you. It will save you a lot of pain and suffering. One can blame others until they turn blue, it will still be you that has the pain. Pay attention.

 

[Incomudro]

I had a situation which could have turned out quite similar to the OP's.
A couple of years ago a woman on a scooter was barreling up Main Street and nearly struck my so Dean who was probably 8 year old at the time.
The scooter riding beast actually scolded the kid as though he (an others) did not have the right to walk on crowded Main Street.
My opinion:
These are motorized vehicles, and NO motorized vehicles should be allowed to be driven in the parks.
Can't walk? Get a wheelchair.
Can't do that?
Don't go.

 

[Incomudro]

This I have to respond to..

1) The ECV is NOT a) heavy, or b) a motor vehicle...my Chevy Suburban is a motor vehicle. The ECV that I own weighs about 100 lbs...I know because everytime we fly with it, the airline has to weigh it.

2) The average person walkes between 5 & 7 M.P.H....The normal ECV (with a full charge/ at full speed goes ABOUT the same...between 7-10 MPH at FULL speed. They don't travel TWICE the speed of a walking pedestrian.

3) Lets suppose I'm waiting in line for a ride and you cut in front of me...I say something, and you insult me or a member of my family...I give you a little "love tap" for your mouth...Is that Disney's fault? Are they negligent because you're rude and I defended my family? NO, the situation is between you and me. If you wanted to call security and the police, that's on you, and you would have every right to do so. Disney is responsible for making the park as safe AND accessible to ALL guests, regardless of the physical disability.
WDW would have every right to take whatever action against me, including removal from the park over the altercation we had...I would hope they WOULD do so. f.y.i., I would NEVER stoop to your level and respond with such an action...I would call security and allow them, with all the other bystanders affirm your rudeness, and let them make the call.

4) Under the A.D.A., thats the Americans With Disabilities Act, EVERY business in the US MUST make EQUAL accomodations for EVERY person, reguardless of their infirmity. If you want every ECV to go 1 mph, then EVERY guest walking should ALSO follow that same speed limit. I can't wait for the team of CM's on Main Street with radar guns, pointing with 2 fingers to the guests walking 6 mph because they have to make it to their reservations at Crystal Palace "Excuse me, you must walk slower or we will have to eject you from the park...now have a magical day!"

5) I do NOT, will NOT and WON'T expect my wife or my 2 teenage daughters to push me around in a wheelchair, nor would I expect any of the other MILLIONS of disabled guests per year to do the same. And what happens when a person pushing a wheelchair accidentally bumps you when you stop short...I guess YOUR next step would be to ban all wheelchairs too...If you can't walk, you are not allowed to ented the property...My aren't WE a little pompous...

Lastly, according to YOUR logic, ECV lanes should be installed in the parks...what happens when a walker darts out into the ECV lane, and there is an accident...I guess that pedestrian should be removed or punished as well...I guess that would be ONE way to empty the parks...you should send that suggestion into WDW corporate...I'm sure they would LOVE your idea of emptying the parks and alienating guests...

Electric Motors ARE motors.
These scooters are not featherweight, and add a considerable amount of mass to an impact.
A person may walk 5 -7 mph., but the average park goer is strolling along at a slower pace. Meanwhile, electric vehicles amongst them can travel at 10mph.
A bad mix.

 

[BAChicagoGal]

Scooters scare me. I recently injured my foot, and I have a vacation coming up in just 5 weeks. The instant reaction from everyone I mention this to, is that I should rent a scooter. Nope. I know me. I don't drive a car. I never have. I never had any desire to learn. I visit theme parks, probably about one week to 10 days each year. I've seen scooter drivers that are confident with what they are doing, and I've also almost gotten run over by one going too fast. Each and every one of us know our own capabilities. I have no desire to rent a scooter. I could probably write a list of pros and cons for myself. The cons would win out, for sure.

I admit that I have not read each and every post in this thread, about the injury to someone by a scooter in the park. I plan on going back, and doing that. Driving a scooter is a huge responsibility. Even walking responsibly is a whole lot different today, considering how crowded the parks are. When I first visited WDW back in 1997, the parks were way different than they are now. Now they are crowded with people, and strollers, and wheelchairs, and scooters. I guess Pokemon Go has caused unneeded distraction as well.

Drive, and walk safely people. Now I will go back, and finish reading.

 

[The Mom]

I had a situation which could have turned out quite similar to the OP's.
A couple of years ago a woman on a scooter was barreling up Main Street and nearly struck my so Dean was was probably 8 year old at the time.
The scooter riding beat actually scolded the kid as though he (an others) did not have the right to walk on crowded Main Street.
My opinion:
These are motorized vehicles, and NO motorized vehicles should be allowed to be driven in the parks.
Can't walk? Get a wheelchair.
Can't do that?
Don't go.

So, no motorized wheelchairs for those who can't use their upper arms (such as quadriplegics, those with diseases that cause lack of upper body strength, etc) and don't have someone who is able to push them all over the park (I've done it, and it does require a lot of stamina - especially if an adult.) They should just stay home?

And many people prefer to use a scooter rather than a wheelchair because it makes them feel less disabled. And they are easier to transport than a motorized wheelchair.

 

[ninjaprincesst]

I had a situation which could have turned out quite similar to the OP's.
A couple of years ago a woman on a scooter was barreling up Main Street and nearly struck my so Dean was was probably 8 year old at the time.
The scooter riding beat actually scolded the kid as though he (an others) did not have the right to walk on crowded Main Street.
My opinion:
These are motorized vehicles, and NO motorized vehicles should be allowed to be driven in the parks.
Can't walk? Get a wheelchair.
Can't do that?
Don't go.

That attitude just makes me so mad, I have been injured badly twice by people on scooters, but to say that handicapped people should just stay home is wrong. So because my Dad has had his back broken twice and lost his leg he has no right to come to Disney? besides it being insanely hard on my mother to push a wheelchair, due to his back injury and the giant metal rod now in his back he can't stand a wheelchair all day there is not enough back support in your non electric wheelchair, and what about kids that have no mobility and are confined to an electric wheel chair (non motorized will not work for these babies either) I'm sure all of them would gladly walk if they could they did not ask for what happened to them and the law is on their side,.

 

[Goofyernmost]

So, no motorized wheelchairs for those who can't use their upper arms (such as quadriplegics, those with diseases that cause lack of upper body strength, etc) and don't have someone who is able to push them all over the park (I've done it, and it does require a lot of stamina - especially if an adult.) They should just stay home?

And many people prefer to use a scooter rather than a wheelchair because it makes them feel less disabled. And they are easier to transport than a motorized wheelchair.

But, but... they are messing up the enjoyment for the able bodied. Gimpy folk need to stay home!

 

[Incomudro]

But, but... they are messing up the enjoyment for the able bodied. Gimpy folk need to stay home!

No.
The problem is that some people take advantage of everything.
Now, they've found a way to get out of walking.
Now, when they eat their way to morbid obesity and can no longer get around - they've got a device to ride on whie they consume more calories.
See Disney's own Wall-e for reference.

 

[bpadair32]

The amount of people that are disrespecting people that are disabled and/or overweight on this thread is as shocking as it is unsurprising. Most of the people that have a mobility issue do not wish to have one. They would love to walk if they could. And despite what you may believe not everyone that is overweight got that way by shoving too much food in their face or being lazy. Sure some of them did, but many did not. Take your judgments somewhere else.