Scooter accident

[DisneyJoe]

In a weird way, you shouldn't be arguing. You are driving safely and are not the problem (a non injury bump is a non issue) I have zero issue with you, personally, on the pedestrian walkways (ok, I won't say sidewalks) because you are safe, patient, and know what you are doing.

You cannot speak for all tho. Many are dangerous. Many get hurt. It is a problem. Maybe the solution is whatever you did to be competent. Make whatever that is apply to all. I wish I had a perfect solution.

On edit: I would never rent a scooter. No experience, dangerous, and the liability scares me.

I see this as “You can't really understand another person's experience until you've walked a mile in their shoes."

Maybe the next time I am in WDW, I will mount a video camera or phone on my ECV to record Youtube videos to show everyone exactly what I go through. It is quite an eye opener.

 

[ninjaprincesst]

Oh I know why.

Obesity = Caloric intake. Sure there are exceptions as to the controllability, but it's still calories. America is a world leader in obesity (yay!). Are we that different than the other 7 billion people out there? Reaally? Our biology is the same. India seems to have the problem under control. Seems kinda like a first world problem that includes a lot of excuses and finger pointing. Personal responsibility is old fashioned. I find this debate personally annoying because I have to pay close attention to what I eat or I'll get fat(ter). ...which means I am jealously watching what others eat and I know what fat people eat. It ain't salads. I know because I want what they are eating. Yes, I am technically obese, but could go morbidly in a heartbeat if I stopped with the self control.

Oh, and because of how much I control my intake, I disagree with the notion people don't wake up and decide to get fat. Every breakfast donut, every bagel, every French toast with syrup is a yes vote to get fat. Every look in the mirror is a report card on your progress towards obesity ...or a healthy physical condition. My father in law is almost 70, looks 45, and is mega healthy. This was no accident. Avoiding obesity is work, and it stinks. Choices.

Brian dead = Entitlement and Darwinian breeding. Brain dead is easily interpreted as a deficit of cognitive ability when really people just don't care. On the flip side, smart people are having less kids while the morons are outbreeding them 10 to 1.

That is simply not true, being overweight does not = caloric intake. I know someone who is overweight she is one of the healthiest eaters I know, it is extremely rare for her to eat bread, pasta or sweets, she eats mostly vegetables, everything she eats is low fat or fat free, she never eats red meat only turkey and chicken, yet she is overweight. I love how easy it is to judge for those with superfast metabolisms and no thyroid or other issues.

 

[ninjaprincesst]

I think there is a much larger problem with people who don't look themselves or let their kids run wild and dart out in front f scooter drivers. than the occasional idiot who drives the scooter poorly. and I have been twice seriously injured by scooter idiots, but I also see a whole lot of people way more frequently , letting their kids dart out in front of people.

 

[BrianV]

That is simply not true, being overweight does not = caloric intake. I know someone who is overweight she is one of the healthiest eaters I know, it is extremely rare for her to eat bread, pasta or sweets, she eats mostly vegetables, everything she eats is low fat or fat free, she never eats red meat only turkey and chicken, yet she is overweight. I love how easy it is to judge for those with superfast metabolisms and no thyroid or other issues.

I wonder what is causing the change in the metabolisms and thyroids of Americans? Over the past 20 years we have been getting fatter and fatter as a nation. And countries that have imported our diet are starting to see similar rises as well.

I totally agree that there are issues beyond the control of some people. But the group of people who seem to lack that control is now a significant portion of the population. Not trying to shame anyone but somehow being obese = a problem you cant control, however having boisterous children = being a bad parent.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I wonder what is causing the change in the metabolisms and thyroids of Americans? Over the past 20 years we have been getting fatter and fatter as a nation. And countries that have imported our diet are starting to see similar rises as well.

I totally agree that there are issues beyond the control of some people. But the group of people who seem to lack that control is now a significant portion of the population. Not trying to shame anyone but somehow being obese = a problem you cant control, however having boisterous children = being a bad parent.

The fact that Americans are getting fatter is totally debatable. But, even saying they are, so what. The constant statement that there is a need for scooters because of that, in general, is totally misleading. The numbers of people that get to the point of morbid obesity causing them mobility issues is probably the same as it ever was. The difference is that with the invention of things like scooters, those with mobility issues are now able to be mobile. And it is always a which came first scenario. For example, the age old question... does a fat person jog to get thin or is it strictly that thin people jog. There is even a theory that those that overdue the jogging will be the next group of older folks riding the scooters, plagued by knee and hip issues. So they will find out the truth soon enough.

Even the definition of morbid obesity is up for question. Do you know that Hulk Hogan is medically labeled as obese? Anyone care to tell him that face to face? I have been considered morbidly obese and have never used a scooter because I was unable to walk the parks. (They one time that I did need one was because of an accidental leg injury.)

Those other countries have not so much adopted our diet, but, they have adopted our lifestyle, which is anything but active. Getting in your car and driving to the soccer game, is not activity in case anyone thinks it is. I just got back from Europe and I can tell you why they are thin. Those people live on hillsides, have to walk miles a day just to get to public transportation, do not run cars constantly, even if they have one, simply because of the cost of gasoline. Their streets consist of up and downs and even a huge number of staircases leading from one level of the cities to another. In other words they flex a muscle, but, in a necessary way, not pounding their joints in a never ending effort to "keep in control". Control isn't necessary, it automatically happens due to lifestyle. That said, it is usually a medical issue that creates a situation that that affects metabolism, thyroid and other things. Psychological issues can be a huge contributing factor as well.

So all that crap about how it is strictly a "self control" issue is just plain ignorance. If those that are blessed with the ability to eat well and still stay thin are a lucky lot, but, don't expect it to last forever. The chances are you will be a victim sometime before you leave this big old planet. And you will, I don't care how healthy you are keeping yourself, you will not get out of it alive.

 

[ford91exploder]

I wonder what is causing the change in the metabolisms and thyroids of Americans? Over the past 20 years we have been getting fatter and fatter as a nation. And countries that have imported our diet are starting to see similar rises as well.

I totally agree that there are issues beyond the control of some people. But the group of people who seem to lack that control is now a significant portion of the population. Not trying to shame anyone but somehow being obese = a problem you cant control, however having boisterous children = being a bad parent.

It's really easy the biggest culprit is High Fructose Corn Syrup, Since the body has no receptors for Fructose AND it's a lower energy molecule than Glucose (hit the organic chemistry textbook for why this is) but lower energy molecules are more readily taken up by celluar processes. you can consume a great number of calories without triggering the leptin response in the brain (the I've had enough bit) as compared to Sucrose or 'Real' Sugar which the body DOES have receptors for. since the body converts excess calories to fat It's not hard to see why Diets containing HFCS make people fatter.

 

[BrianV]

The fact that Americans are getting fatter is totally debatable. But, even saying they are, so what. The constant statement that there is a need for scooters because of that, in general, is totally misleading. The numbers of people that get to the point of morbid obesity causing them mobility issues is probably the same as it ever was. The difference is that with the invention of things like scooters, those with mobility issues are now able to be mobile. And it is always a which came first scenario. For example, the age old question... does a fat person jog to get thin or is it strictly that thin people jog. There is even a theory that those that overdue the jogging will be the next group of older folks riding the scooters, plagued by knee and hip issues. So they will find out the truth soon enough.

Even the definition of morbid obesity is up for question. Do you know that Hulk Hogan is medically labeled as obese? Anyone care to tell him that face to face? I have been considered morbidly obese and have never used a scooter because I was unable to walk the parks. (They one time that I did need one was because of an accidental leg injury.)

Those other countries have not so much adopted our diet, but, they have adopted our lifestyle, which is anything but active. Getting in your car and driving to the soccer game, is not activity in case anyone thinks it is. I just got back from Europe and I can tell you why they are thin. Those people live on hillsides, have to walk miles a day just to get to public transportation, do not run cars constantly, even if they have one, simply because of the cost of gasoline. Their streets consist of up and downs and even a huge number of staircases leading from one level of the cities to another. In other words they flex a muscle, but, in a necessary way, not pounding their joints in a never ending effort to "keep in control". Control isn't necessary, it automatically happens due to lifestyle. That said, it is usually a medical issue that creates a situation that that affects metabolism, thyroid and other things. Psychological issues can be a huge contributing factor as well.

So all that crap about how it is strictly a "self control" issue is just plain ignorance. If those that are blessed with the ability to eat well and still stay thin are a lucky lot, but, don't expect it to last forever. The chances are you will be a victim sometime before you leave this big old planet. And you will, I don't care how healthy you are keeping yourself, you will not get out of it alive.

It's really easy the biggest culprit is High Fructose Corn Syrup, Since the body has no receptors for Fructose AND it's a lower energy molecule than Glucose (hit the organic chemistry textbook for why this is) but lower energy molecules are more readily taken up by celluar processes. you can consume a great number of calories without triggering the leptin response in the brain (the I've had enough bit) as compared to Sucrose or 'Real' Sugar which the body DOES have receptors for. since the body converts excess calories to fat It's not hard to see why Diets containing HFCS make people fatter.

There is no debate that Americans are getting fatter and that we are among if not the fattest nation in the world. The only debate is why.

I agree that fructose is part of the problem. Its metabolism is different from that of glucose and in our house we only use glucose for sweetening of non baked goods. Also eliminated all soda and juice which are empty calories. And fast food is not allowed to a large extent.

I also agree that inactivity is part o the problem. It is too easy to avoid getting exercise these days.

Anyway, I don't think we can jokingly say that "brain dead" America is a self imposed condition and then say that the massive explosion in obesity is beyond our control. Both are mostly in our control for most people with a few on the periphery who do not have control for various medical reasons.

Neither directly relate to scooters. they aren't a major problem in my mind. Just a nuisance by the 1% of drivers who are bad. Really not much more to add. Those who need scooters, keep enjoying disney! Same for those who don't.

Good night!

 

[cjack300zx]

Last year we witnessed a plus size women drive the scooter on the bus and when she went to park it in front of the handicap section, she stood up and picked the scooter off the floor to move it closer to the rail. The day before the same woman ran over someone's foot on the bus. This year I think every scooter that I saw was driven on the bus by the bus driver

 

[GrammieBee]

It is no different than operating a vehicle on a roadway. You are supposed to leave 2 car lengths between you and the car in front of you. If a car cuts in front, and they will (jerks), you have to slow down and add two car lengths again.

Or

Don't. ...and be too close and run a higher risk of a rear end collision in which you are almost certainly going to be found liable. Tailgating while hyper aware sorta works, but emphasis on hyper aware.

Same thing with running a (smaller) vehicle on a sidewalk. Yes, it is going to be painfully slow to be safe. No, you cannot drive faster safely. No the pedestrians don't have a responsibility to look out for you any more than the car in front of you on the freeway has a responsibility to look out for the tailgater.

There is no right of way on a sidewalk. So it is 100% liability to the rammer. Sure, a pedestrian could rear end a sidewalk vehicle. But in that scenario the pedestrian is ramming, and is at fault.

People walk into each other all the time too. Fortunately people are usually soft, squishy, and flexible. Injuries happen, sure, but add a vehicle (not squishy or flexible) to the mix and it gets real dangerous real fast. Kids and old people have issues just walking in the same places (kids are the problem in this scenario), putting some of them in vehicles expands the issue.

Sidewalk drivers have zero right to demand, or even expect, pedestrians to look out for vehicles on the sidewalk. That is dangerously flawed logic.

Oh, posh. Of course when you are walking you can't see what is behind you and if a careless ECV driver is going too fast and plows into you, it is their fault.

However, I still maintain that you should be aware of what is around you and you should watch where you are going..
If you are facing the side taking a picture, fiddling with your backpack, or talking to someone and you back into a scooter passing behind you at a reasonable walking speed, is it the scooter driver's fault? Or how about in sardine crowded conditions you step in front of, or suddenly try to cross in front of, a scooter, is it the scooter driver's fault if you are bumped? In those type of conditions everyone is moving along like a giant wave and there is little to no space between anyone; scooter or pedestrian..It is continuous start and stop and just about impossible to predict what all of the people around you might be going to do. You are down below their eyesight and they don't see you. Shouldn't they take some responsibility to be aware of what is around them?

On a normally crowded walkway I am usually following a family member and before we can go 100 feet, at a minimum,four other groups of people have gotten between us. My family has to stop and wait for me to find a way to catch up to them.

I think what gives me indigestion from reading your posts is that you are lumping all of the safe, careful drivers in with the small percentage of idiot drivers. Plus you are taking a rather simplistic view of what a person in a scooter faces while driving in crowded conditions.and making everything their fault. You keep equating scooters with cars on a highway and, at least to me, that simply is not a valid comparison.

I have needed a scooter for approximately ten years, have used it to see Las Vegas and Broadway shows, been at the Rose Parade, arena shows, driven on the sidewalks of NYC and on the DC Mall as well as Disneyland, Walt Disney World, both Universals, other amusement parks, festivals and State Fairs and have NEVER run into or bumped anyone. I am well acquainted with crowds and know what I am talking about..
, I can only repeat---please give the careful, responsible drivers a break instead of wanting us licensed, regulated, segregated and, in some minds, eliminated.

 

[bethymouse]

Wow! I can't believe this debate is still continuing, and such a "hot button" issue!

 

[kbmum]

I am sorry that your daughter got hurt. My 76 year old Mom needs a scooter to get around. She and I are very careful how she drives the scooter. We keep it on "turtle speed" especially in crowds. But, mostly people walk in front of my Mom. If that is the case, then it's not my Mom's fault if someone gets hurt ( these are people of all ages just not paying attention). She feels bad enough that she needs a scooter to get around now, but sometimes others are so engrossed in their own little world that they just don't seem to have respect for others ( especially the elderly). Occasionally you'll hear someone say " I'm sorry" for bumping into you ( that goes for strollers too, especially the huge double ones!)
The "parties" before the parade and fireworks at night have always been "open". The CMs usually do a decent job of directing traffic. I am sorry this happened.

My 79-year-old father had to use a scooter during our vacation last week. I was shocked by the number of people who thought it was okay to run in front him, often nearly getting clipped by the scooter, and then they would shoot us dirty looks. The scooters can't stop on a dime. I considered us lucky that there wasn't an accident.

We did see a scooter accident while we were enjoying a Dole Whip in Adventureland. An elderly woman ran over her adult son's foot (he was seated) and had actually stopped with the wheel on top of his foot. He let out quite a yell before she realized what had happened and moved the scooter. The poor guy could barely walk as he tried to get to the first aid station. Personally, I think one of his family members should have contacted a CM for help, because he very likely had broken bones in his foot and shouldn't have been walking.

 

[DuckTalesWooHoo1987]

I can honestly say that I feel more threatened by people walking around with their nose in their phone than I do people on scooters. I've had bad experiences with scooters but people with their phones probably hold up lines a lot worse than scooter people do. They probably also walk in to more people than scooter people do. Do people abuse the scooter system? 100% yes. But still people with their phones can be pretty dang obnoxious too.

 

[daisyduckie]

That is simply not true, being overweight does not = caloric intake. I know someone who is overweight she is one of the healthiest eaters I know, it is extremely rare for her to eat bread, pasta or sweets, she eats mostly vegetables, everything she eats is low fat or fat free, she never eats red meat only turkey and chicken, yet she is overweight. I love how easy it is to judge for those with superfast metabolisms and no thyroid or other issues.

Or don't have to take meds on a daily basis that makes them gain weight, and makes it very difficult to lose that weight.

 

[bethymouse]

@kbmum My Mom's scooter was sometimes "finicky", and would not start ( probably operator error). I had to push her out of the way of people. It ended up where my Mom must've hurt her back a bit on the safari ride ( my fault... Mom should probably not have ridden it). Anyhow, while pushing her scooter, I hurt her back even more by pushing too hard trying to get her "out of the way".

 

[BrianV]

@kbmum My Mom's scooter was sometimes "finicky", and would not start ( probably operator error). I had to push her out of the way of people. It ended up where my Mom must've hurt her back a bit on the safari ride ( my fault... Mom should probably not have ridden it). Anyhow, while pushing her scooter, I hurt her back even more by pushing too hard trying to get her "out of the way".

That stinks. I thought it was bad hurting my back moving the darn snowblower!

 

[kbmum]

@kbmum My Mom's scooter was sometimes "finicky", and would not start ( probably operator error). I had to push her out of the way of people. It ended up where my Mom must've hurt her back a bit on the safari ride ( my fault... Mom should probably not have ridden it). Anyhow, while pushing her scooter, I hurt her back even more by pushing too hard trying to get her "out of the way".

Oh no! I feel your pain. A few days after the start of our trip, my mom hurt her knee and we had to rent a wheelchair for her (in addition to my dad needing a scooter). It definitely made for a more difficult trip. We took turns with one person in our party walking alongside my dad to run interference in case someone ran in front of him and another pushing my mom. Not fun considering the heat index was well over 100 degrees every day.

 

[Mirabeau]

I'm from the UK and have been pretty shocked how many obese people there are here - I mean morbidly obese not slightly overweight.
But when I see what is on offer in terms of food I'm not surprised, people don't stand a chance... Everything, everything is laden with sugar - even bread or salads or butter. It's nigh on impossible to eat healthily in Disney ( apart from a full restaurant meal). I mean Mac cheese doesn't qualify as food in my book, it's just vile stodge. You would die of malnutrition if you lived in Disney permanently. Salads are drenched with sugary dressing, there's a coke outlet in Epcot giving out free samples, there is no proper food in the water parks, you're encouraged to have unlimited refills of soft drinks all the time. My heart sinks when I look at the fast food menus (with a few honourable exceptions such as the Moroccan outlet).
Sorry to go in but it is so bad. Really bad. It's like the tobacco industry all over again. I don't blame people at all, I think they don't stand a chance really. It's really hard if that's all the choice you have.

 

[Aristocatsmarie]

Being one of those ECV users I felt compelled to speak on the subject. I have Multiple Sclerosis but I am also overweight and people always assume that I use it for my weight which is not true. With the MS I cannot do long distance walking or long time standing and so the ECV helps me get through the day at the parks. When on the ECV (because I use one in everyday living) I know how to operate them to a point that I can control them through out the crowds. I try to be as respectful as possible of the people walking and apologize immediately if I even slightly bump into someone. Sometimes however the people walking themselves are the problem for us ECV users. I have had incidences where I have been disrespected by the people walking or standing (whether in line or waiting for a parade). It is not always completely our fault, in some cases people need to take responsibility for their negligence. I am not saying that is the case (entirely) for OP but people do need to pay more attention to their surroundings.

 

[KCheatle]

This is an interesting predicament... I realize that your daughter was mildly hurt, and that's very unfortunate in and of itself. But, I wonder -- what if the injuries were severe? Say a broken bone or worse? Now, technically, Disney didn't cause the injury; the scooter driver did (hypothetically of course). But, Disney does authorize people to use motorized vehicles on its private property without requiring the scooters (at least as far as I know) to have an identifiable feature (such as a license plate) so that a guest could report or act on misbehavior. If they are going to allow them on the property without requiring the operators to make themselves identifiable for liability purposes, then I do question if Disney has made itself liable?

 

[DisneyJoe]

This is an interesting predicament... I realize that your daughter was mildly hurt, and that's very unfortunate in and of itself. But, I wonder -- what if the injuries were severe? Say a broken bone or worse? Now, technically, Disney didn't cause the injury; the scooter driver did (hypothetically of course). But, Disney does authorize people to use motorized vehicles on its private property without requiring the scooters (at least as far as I know) to have an identifiable feature (such as a license plate) so that a guest could report or act on misbehavior. If they are going to allow them on the property without requiring the operators to make themselves identifiable for liability purposes, then I do question if Disney has made itself liable?

How is this any different than a 250lb person walking and stepping on a child's foot and causing damage? Do people need "license plates" ? A large person could harm a child's foot and easily slip away in the crowd.

People are identifiable, the ECV's have the rental company on them (unless the person owns the ECV themselves), and many of the ECV's have a unique number for inventory within the rental company, in many cases the number is printed in large white on the front or the back.