Scooter accident

[KikoKea]

When we go to the parks, DH and I tend to keep out of the heavier crowds and stick to the edges of the pack when moving about, whether it be down Main St or heading into AK. We avoid shuffling along with the crowd and would rather be 20 minutes (or more) later getting out of the park- which leaves us more time to enjoy it with less people. When we pushed our elderly mothers around the World 2 years ago, we waited until the crowd thinned before leaving and had no problems.

Most people on scooters or pushing wheelchairs are polite and careful, just as most people who are walking, and most try not to bump into you or cut in front of you as a tripping hazard. Most problems I've seen have had to do with people pushing wheelchairs, strollers, or on scooters going too fast for the crowd, trying to get ahead instead of simply going with the flow. Wheelchairs, strollers, and scooters are somewhat cumbersome and it is not easy to see where the front is, so it is common courtesy to be extra careful.

It is also common courtesy and common sense not to step in front of someone and to not to let your kids run free in a moving crowd.

 

[jloucks]

It is your job to protect your children from harm not mine or anyone else's and I will swear on any stack of bibles you can come up with that no one would intentionally run down a kid. So where does that leave your responsibility?

Some will however accidentally run down a child, therefore....*insert previous statments here*

I want to protect all children by making these dangerous vehicles safe or by removing them. I refuse to victim blame the scooter impact victims because "they should have been looking out for scooters", or "because their parents should have trained them better." I get bristly whenever anybody victim blames.

And therin lies the big disconnect. I think we are defining the victim differently. You, the person in the vehicle, and me the person injured by the person operating the vehicle.

I definitly feel like we a whoopin a dead horse at is point, but I am drawn toward a good debate when I think I'm right.

 

[jloucks]

Unfortunately these vehicles are everywhere. Are you telling us that just because you do not like them that you shouldn't have to watch out for them or watch your kids to make sure that this potential harm doesn't befall them

You are willing to admit that there are other hidden dangers, but this one is not one that you chose to acknowledge.

It is a fact of life that you will see these in all walks of life. Why do you think WDW should be the exception?

Interesting observation. In my experience these vehicles are not everywhere in the same concentration as they are in WDW. Add to that the crowds, and it is a dangerous situation really fast. I am a six flags season pass holder. No issue with scooters there. Why is that?

The crowds play a key and major role in the dangerous situation the scooters create.

Without the massive mobs, they are actually safe-ish.

 

[unkadug]

Interesting observation. In my experience these vehicles are not everywhere in the same concentration as they are in WDW. Add to that the crowds, and it is a dangerous situation really fast. I am a six flags season pass holder. No issue with scooters there. Why is that?

The crowds play a key and major role in the dangerous situation the scooters create.

Without the massive mobs, they are actually safe-ish.

Me too...which park is your home park?

 

[Smiley/OCD]

Interesting observation. In my experience these vehicles are not everywhere in the same concentration as they are in WDW. Add to that the crowds, and it is a dangerous situation really fast. I am a six flags season pass holder. No issue with scooters there. Why is that?

The crowds play a key and major role in the dangerous situation the scooters create.

Without the massive mobs, they are actually safe-ish.

Because most of the rides at Six Flags are not "handicap friendly"...I live 20 minutes from 6F/ Great Adventure, and I can assure you, most people on ECV's can not ride El Toro, Kingda Ka, or most coasters.

 

[21stamps]

Interesting observation. In my experience these vehicles are not everywhere in the same concentration as they are in WDW. Add to that the crowds, and it is a dangerous situation really fast. I am a six flags season pass holder. No issue with scooters there. Why is that?

The crowds play a key and major role in the dangerous situation the scooters create.

Without the massive mobs, they are actually safe-ish.

We are season passholders at a Cedar Fair park. I feel the same, don't see too many, but never an issue with the ones we do see.
I actually thought about this thread last night-
It's "Christmas in July" week at our park- after the fireworks last night it started "snowing". Kids were running around excitedly, plus crowds of people were heading towards the exit. A woman on a scooter, with a child on her lap, was 'zooming' (it looked kinda fast) towards the exit area from the fountains, a snow catching child jumped in front of her and she stopped quickly. She looked extremely annoyed, but she was able to stop in time.
I remember reading here that a scooter can't stop immediately, so I don't know if there are different kinds?

 

[21stamps]

Because most of the rides at Six Flags are not "handicap friendly"...I live 20 minutes from 6F/ Great Adventure, and I can assure you, most people on ECV's can not ride El Toro, Kingda Ka, or most coasters.

Most of the people who I see on scooters at our park are with little kids. You don't go on most of the kiddie rides with them. The ones that you can go on are probably fine for someone who would be able to go on rides at WDW. Also, ( If you need them to) a park employee will go on certain attractions with a child if you can't.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Some will however accidentally run down a child, therefore....*insert previous statments here*

I want to protect all children by making these dangerous vehicles safe or by removing them. I refuse to victim blame the scooter impact victims because "they should have been looking out for scooters", or "because their parents should have trained them better." I get bristly whenever anybody victim blames.

And therin lies the big disconnect. I think we are defining the victim differently. You, the person in the vehicle, and me the person injured by the person operating the vehicle.

I definitly feel like we a whoopin a dead horse at is point, but I am drawn toward a good debate when I think I'm right.

From what I can see... both are victims. There is no way to eliminate all accidents. However, denying a group of people their rights because of a possible problem is not the solution. It is a group situation. It involves attention from the scooter rider and the pedestrian. You don't own the sidewalks and can say that certain people that you find "dangerous" should be banned from being anywhere that you might be. I am also drawn to a debate when I think I'm right, so, we need to stop this repeated back and forth. You think I'm wrong and I think you are wrong... so let's leave it at that. The other thing is that you are not going to get your wish because we are inclined to not discriminate against people just because they seem to violate our space. That should tell you something, so you had better watch what is happening because being right will not stop an injury and that is what we all should be striving for even if it means more diligence on your part as well as that of the mobility device operator. Group effort my friend... group effort!

 

[jloucks]

Me too...which park is your home park?

Six Flags Over Texas is our main base. It is really close to our house and we bought the season meal plan. ...so we go there to eat 'free' dinner all the time.

I am obsessed with amusement parks in general, love 'em!

 

[GrammieBee]

The only thing I disagree with is that fear of being hit by a vehicle on a WDW sidewalk is something we as parents should have to train. Be aware of cars on real streets, yes. Be aware of swimming pools, yes. Be aware of strangers, yes. Snakes,yes. Guns, yes. Drugs, yes. STDs, yes. Be aware that running in a crowd is dangerous, yes. Be aware of motor vehicles on sidewalks, no.

Certain people keep blatantly exaggerating my statements. I never said part the seas for kids. I never said a lot of the vitriol that is being spewed. My children are well behaved. They don't run rampant. They do circle around me in a 2-4 foot radius. they are yes mam, no mam kids. They do occasional make weird erratic movements that could result in a craptastic scooter driver ramming them. They stand still, which could also result in a scooter ramming them. They are little and delicate, hence the problem. They do frolic and play. They do speak politely, and freely. they are top 10% of their class. ...well, one is. My point being, my kids are fine, they are not the problem.

Frankly, I find your argument puzzling. You perceive scooters to be a threat to your children, but you will not warn your children to watch out for them. You will warn them about streets, guns, snakes, pools and just about anything else that can possibly be dangerous, but not scooters. You may not want scooters at the parks, but they are not going to go away just because you don't want them there. Like them or not, you and your children are going to have to live with the fact that they have a right to be there and are there to stay.

 

[unkadug]

Frankly, I find your argument puzzling. You perceive scooters to be a threat to your children, but you will not warn your children to watch out for them. You will warn them about streets, guns, snakes, pools and just about anything else that can possibly be dangerous, but not scooters. You may not want scooters at the parks, but they are not going to go away just because you don't want them there. Like them or not, you and your children are going to have to live with the fact that they have a right to be there and are there to stay.

Exactly what I was trying to say earlier.

 

[HRHPrincessAriel]

Six Flags Over Texas is our main base. It is really close to our house and we bought the season meal plan. ...so we go there to eat 'free' dinner all the time.

I am obsessed with amusement parks in general, love 'em!

That meal this is a great deal!! I noticed when we were visiting with my dad.

 

[jloucks]

Frankly, I find your argument puzzling. You perceive scooters to be a threat to your children, but you will not warn your children to watch out for them. You will warn them about streets, guns, snakes, pools and just about anything else that can possibly be dangerous, but not scooters. You may not want scooters at the parks, but they are not going to go away just because you don't want them there. Like them or not, you and your children are going to have to live with the fact that they have a right to be there and are there to stay.

That's just it tho, I maintain that if enough people are injured, they will go away. Society has a way of fixing dangerous things. The point of contention goes right back to the root of the problem, Are these particular vehicles (not all, just these) dangerous in the WDW setting? Injuries would indicate yes.

It is a yes or no answer. Some answer yes. Some answer no. Time will tell. History has shown dangerous gets fixed tho. ...except for guns. ...whole different topic. Once people start talking about their rights, it gets passionate. That's what is happening here. One side claims the right to motorized access, and the other side claims the right to safe access. They are mutually exclusive, one side will lose. Right now safety is the losing side. Remember everybody, before you go off, I am only talking about a very specific form of conveyance, not all of them! Just one.

Selfie sticks went away, and they are far far less dangerous.

As far as warning my children goes, my point is I should not have to warn them, not so much that I don't. And I maintain that even when parents warn kids about this issue, the environment makes it impossible to maintain that level of vigilance for extended periods of time. You essentially have thousands of ever changing blind intersections to navigate 10+ hours a day for a week. Impossible to do perfectly. That is where the driving ability of of vehicle operators comes into play.

I have listed many many solutions, most of which do not penalize excellent drivers. ...but we have been debating philosophy for a while now, not so much solution exploration.

Kids do have one nice advantage tho, they are eye level to the vehciles. Makes them easier to spot than for an adult.

 

[DisneyJoe]

Selfie sticks went away, and they are far far less dangerous.

Selfie sticks could be taken into and on an attraction, and cause much greater disturbance to a greater group of people at once, besides the danger to hitting someone in the head.

 

[GrammieBee]

That's just it tho, I maintain that if enough people are injured, they will go away. Society has a way of fixing dangerous things. The point of contention goes right back to the root of the problem, Are these particular vehicles (not all, just these) dangerous in the WDW setting? Injuries would indicate yes.

It is a yes or no answer. Some answer yes. Some answer no. Time will tell. History has shown dangerous gets fixed tho. ...except for guns. ...whole different topic. Once people start talking about their rights, it gets passionate. That's what is happening here. One side claims the right to motorized access, and the other side claims the right to safe access. They are mutually exclusive, one side will lose. Right now safety is the losing side. Remember everybody, before you go off, I am only talking about a very specific form of conveyance, not all of them! Just one.

Selfie sticks went away, and they are far far less dangerous.

As far as warning my children goes, my point is I should not have to warn them, not so much that I don't. And I maintain that even when parents warn kids about this issue, the environment makes it impossible to maintain that level of vigilance for extended periods of time. You essentially have thousands of ever changing blind intersections to navigate 10+ hours a day for a week. Impossible to do perfectly. That is where the driving ability of of vehicle operators comes into play.

I have listed many many solutions, most of which do not penalize excellent drivers. ...be we have been debating philosophy for a while now, not so much solution exploration.

Kids do have one nice advantage tho, they are eye level to the vehciles. Makes them easier to spot than for an adult.

There are three very large holes in your argument.
First: Using your argument that dangerous things go away, no automobiles should be allowed anywhere.

Second: Just what percentage of visitors to the Disney parks are actually injured by scooters? Going by what you read and listen to people's complaints on these forums it seems like they happen constantly. However, we have been visiting Disney for forty some years for at least two weeks at a time and have never seen a scooter accident. I realize if you are the one who happens to be injured, it is one too many for you.

Third: As long as the Americans With Disabilities Act is the law of the land, scooters aren't going away. They give the disabled access to things and places they could not otherwise utilize or enjoy. To be in a wheelchair sounds good, but someone is needed to push it around which is not always possible.. Plus the foot rests are very good at clipping the ankles of someone in front of them.and the support they give for a person with back problems is almost nonexistent. Not to mention (again) that to be in a wheel chair takes away the person's sense of independence and they tend to be treated like they are also mentally disabled as in "What will she have to eat?" Or, "What would he like?"
How about a separate scooter lane? How about stop signs and signals for the pedestrians to cross these lanes? And how is the scooter driver supposed to access something not in the lane? More signals and cross walks?

You are entitled to your opinion and will obviously fight to defend it. Perhaps you should take it up with your Representative in Congress to do something about the ADA to exclude scooters. As old as I am, I will also fight tooth and nail before I let someone take away my independence because of a small percentage of rude, ignorant, nitwit drivers.

 

[rob0519]

Not to mention (again) that to be in a wheel chair takes away the person's sense of independence and they tend to be treated like they are also mentally disabled as in "What will she have to eat?" Or, "What would he like?"

I actually agree with almost everything you said. Society does not have a way of getting rid of everything that is dangerous. Cars, smoking materials and alcohol will never go away. Additionally, in over 20 years and 30 visits I've never seen a "serious" scooter accident. Some serious shouting over how they are being driven, sure.

As long a the ADA exists the scooters will be allowed, People who can no longer walk independently have a right to be able to continue their life and move around. If a scooter makes that possible great. For the most part I have no objections to the ECVs. In fact I can only imagine how difficult it is to drive one in the massive crowds on Main St. and try to get one on a bus. It's the rare few that think an ECV gives them some sort of privileged status in terms of right of way in the parks and their parties getting on the buses.

Sorry, but my only disagreement is with the way you stated your objection to being treated like you're mentally disabled. I'm sorry some people disrespect you in that manner. Our son is mentally disabled and uses a wheel chair in the parks. It just seemed rather insensitive to the mentally impaired.

 

[GrammieBee]

I actually agree with almost everything you said. Society does not have a way of getting rid of everything that is dangerous. Cars, smoking materials and alcohol will never go away. Additionally, in over 20 years and 30 visits I've never seen a "serious" scooter accident. Some serious shouting over how they are being driven, sure.

As long a the ADA exists the scooters will be allowed, People who can no longer walk independently have a right to be able to continue their life and move around. If a scooter makes that possible great. For the most part I have no objections to the ECVs. In fact I can only imagine how difficult it is to drive one in the massive crowds on Main St. and try to get one on a bus. It's the rare few that think an ECV gives them some sort of privileged status in terms of right of way in the parks and their parties getting on the buses.

Sorry, but my only disagreement is with the way you stated your objection to being treated like you're mentally disabled. I'm sorry some people disrespect you in that manner. Our son is mentally disabled and uses a wheel chair in the parks. It just seemed rather insensitive to the mentally impaired.

Sorry, no disrespect intended. I am intimately acquainted with mental disability in several of my contemporaries. Without trying to be disrespectful to what must be difficult for you and anyone else in that situation., it's just that when you are in a wheelchair people tend to treat you like you are unable to speak for yourself.

 

[Absimilliard]

My issue with the ECV's are the entitled drivers, as many have pointed out in the thread. One time at the Studios during the Holiday Lights in the Streets of America, a rather clueless lady ran into my 80 years grandfather and kept trying to push him out of the way. It was a case where the lady just did not understand and I was not mad at her. I was mad at her husband who got into my grandfather's face and tried to intimidate him into admitting that "he's fine". Afraid to get sued much? I got into the idiot's face and told him to apologize and get lost. Seeing somebody confronted him, he and his wife went around us and got lost.

The other incident was last November at the Magic Kingdom and again, entitled driver screaming "sorry!" and "let me through", trying to use her ECV as a bulldozer to quickly part a crowd in Tomorrowland. This time, I was pushing a relative who was in a wheelchair and I just stopped and let her rant at me. I just pointed out I was pushing someone in a wheelchair and there was no way I was moving out of the way for her. She got mad, tried to answer me back, but she eventually moved to the side.

 

[jloucks]

My issue with the ECV's are the entitled drivers, as many have pointed out in the thread. One time at the Studios during the Holiday Lights in the Streets of America, a rather clueless lady ran into my 80 years grandfather and kept trying to push him out of the way. It was a case where the lady just did not understand and I was not mad at her. I was mad at her husband who got into my grandfather's face and tried to intimidate him into admitting that "he's fine". Afraid to get sued much? I got into the idiot's face and told him to apologize and get lost. Seeing somebody confronted him, he and his wife went around us and got lost.

The other incident was last November at the Magic Kingdom and again, entitled driver screaming "sorry!" and "let me through", trying to use her ECV as a bulldozer to quickly part a crowd in Tomorrowland. This time, I was pushing a relative who was in a wheelchair and I just stopped and let her rant at me. I just pointed out I was pushing someone in a wheelchair and there was no way I was moving out of the way for her. She got mad, tried to answer me back, but she eventually moved to the side.

Your grandfather was extremely lucky!

I have been hit once myself (technically run over), and was able to walk it off without any damage. I felt lucky myself, and I am a young'un. ...if 40's is young lol.

 

[jaklgreen]

The only thing I disagree with is that fear of being hit by a vehicle on a WDW sidewalk is something we as parents should have to train. Be aware of cars on real streets, yes. Be aware of swimming pools, yes. Be aware of strangers, yes. Snakes,yes. Guns, yes. Drugs, yes. STDs, yes. Be aware that running in a crowd is dangerous, yes. Be aware of motor vehicles on sidewalks, no.

Certain people keep blatantly exaggerating my statements. I never said part the seas for kids. I never said a lot of the vitriol that is being spewed. My children are well behaved. They don't run rampant. They do circle around me in a 2-4 foot radius. they are yes mam, no mam kids. They do occasional make weird erratic movements that could result in a craptastic scooter driver ramming them. They stand still, which could also result in a scooter ramming them. They are little and delicate, hence the problem. They do frolic and play. They do speak politely, and freely. they are top 10% of their class. ...well, one is. My point being, my kids are fine, they are not the problem.

I don't think you understand what we are saying. Being aware of your surroundings means being aware of what is around you, not just things you think should be there. We all know scooters are at WDW. Either way it does not matter what comes at you. Either you are paying attention or not. It is just as easy to say to your kids, "hey, watch out for the scooters, they can run you over". I know scooter accidents can happen, I have seen them. But most of the time it was because people loose their focus and walk in front of one. I am not "blaming" anyone, just saying that we should all pay attention a bit better, especially in crowded places. And be extra vigilant with your little ones.