CaptainMichael
Well-Known Member
Nope, and it's one of the reasons I don't like baseball.
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Roger Clemens...is he worth it?
- Thread starter WDWFREAK53
- Start date
In relative baseball terms, Clemens is overpaid. I only had a passing interest in this as a Cubs fan, but I don't think the Yankees are in the playoffs this year and I still don't think they're in the playoffs. IMO, the trophy description is apt.
In reference to the discussion on is anyone worth a million, I don't know if everyone is familiar with this Winston Churchhill quote on democracy, but it summarizes my feeling on capitalism/the market economy (replace democracy with capitalism and government with econonmy).
"It has been said that democracyis the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."
We all feel athletes and for that matter top entertainers of all types are over paid. I mean why should someone get ten or twenty million a movie for playing pretend? But, with mass media enabling tens of millions of people to watch entertainers peform their craft the people at the top get incredibly rich, while quality entertainers in the tiers directly below the top get paid next to nothing. Look at the differential in salaries between a MLB player and a lifetime minor league journey man. We can all see quality thespians at local theatres, but they get paid a pittance compared to the Tom Cruises and Susan Sarandons of the world. I'm not sure what, if anything should be done about this, but it does strike almost everyone as crazy.
In reference to the discussion on is anyone worth a million, I don't know if everyone is familiar with this Winston Churchhill quote on democracy, but it summarizes my feeling on capitalism/the market economy (replace democracy with capitalism and government with econonmy).
"It has been said that democracyis the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."
We all feel athletes and for that matter top entertainers of all types are over paid. I mean why should someone get ten or twenty million a movie for playing pretend? But, with mass media enabling tens of millions of people to watch entertainers peform their craft the people at the top get incredibly rich, while quality entertainers in the tiers directly below the top get paid next to nothing. Look at the differential in salaries between a MLB player and a lifetime minor league journey man. We can all see quality thespians at local theatres, but they get paid a pittance compared to the Tom Cruises and Susan Sarandons of the world. I'm not sure what, if anything should be done about this, but it does strike almost everyone as crazy.
Tramp
New Member
It will be interesting to read this thread on October 1st. We'll know by then, for sure, if Clemens was worth the money. Is Cashman trying to re-build the championship team of 2000 by bringing Pettitte and CLemens to NY again? Sounds really desperate to me and you'd think they would've learned after the Randy Johnson debacle. :shrug:
While starters have been a major issue for the Yanks, the bullpen has lost the lead in the majority of the Yankee losses. We better get 6-7 innings out of Clemens and Pettitte cuz the relief has been even weaker than the starters.:veryconfu
No...he's not worth what they're paying him unless, of course, he brings us another World championship...and then he's worth his weight in platinum times 100.:lookaroun
While starters have been a major issue for the Yanks, the bullpen has lost the lead in the majority of the Yankee losses. We better get 6-7 innings out of Clemens and Pettitte cuz the relief has been even weaker than the starters.:veryconfu
No...he's not worth what they're paying him unless, of course, he brings us another World championship...and then he's worth his weight in platinum times 100.:lookaroun
SpongeScott
Well-Known Member
Football players are just as overpaid.
gotribe07
New Member
Here's the problem... people LOVE entertainment be it movies, sports, etc.
Entertainment is our way to escape reality and essentially get caught up in something to occupy our minds for a few hours. People are willing to pay A LOT of money for this entertainment (as you can clearly see from tickets to professional sporting events). Professional athletes salaries are as simple as Economics 101.. .supply and demand. 1 in 16000 people turn out to be a professional athlete of any type. An even smaller amount are good enough to make it big in sports as a career. Therefore, in order to provide our entertainment these athletes are paid BIG bucks.
Looking at your signature you follow sports A LOT. Granted I'm not saying AROD is worth $250 million, BUT as long as people are willing to pay $60 per ticket to go watch a sporting even and pay $11 for a beer and hot dog the players salaries will only continue to rise.
I TOTALLY agree that school teachers and other pivotal people in our lives our VASTLY underpaid... so you definately have me with that argument.
One last part.... if the athletes didn't make millions of dollars could you immagine how much more money the owners of professional franchises would make? yikes
SpongeScott
Well-Known Member
And therein is the hitch in it all--we, the fans. If we said we will no longer pay these prices to watch the games in person.....who am I fooling? And, I stand guilty as charged, contributing to the enormous D-Ray payroll.
And therein is the hitch in it all--we, the fans. If we said we will no longer pay these prices to watch the games in person.....who am I fooling? And, I stand guilty as charged, contributing to the enormous D-Ray payroll.
Professional Wrestling isnt near as bad as baseball :lookaroun
Even if he does bring another "World" Championship...is he really worth it?
He's going to contribute to...at most...29 games. AT MOST... Even if he wins all 29 games (which, ok, if he does that...he's worth it (relatively speaking))...that's basically only a 3rd of the games needed to make it to the playoffs. Now...being realistic about this...say he wins 18. Is he worth it then? What if he has a great ERA like last year and still goes 7-6...is that worth it?
Yes, we'll need to see what happens by the time October 1 comes around...but I just can't see the point.
Like you said, it's the bullpen. So, spend 28 million on a new starter instead of maybe taking that money and improving your bullpen? If Clemens goes 7 innings a game and then the bullpen blows it...are you really utilizing that large sum of money?
Not for nothing...but Georgie Porgie should look at replacing Cashman if this is how he's going to handle the team.
The thing with the yankees is the orginization makes tons of money.So,by signing clemens, everyone will be talking about it for the next month and following month.if he produces it will be the talk of the entire summer and october.People will be more apt to pay to see the yankees starting late may and early june just to see clemens pitch and see what he does.Either way,steinbrenner keeps the yankees foremost in everybodys mind,whether they are winning or not.I think its a win situation either way for steinbrenner.But is clemens worth it?Performance wise,no way.But lets face it people either love the yankees or hate them,same as clemens,love him or hate him,everybody has an opinion.personally i hope THE METS kick butt this season!!!:sohappy:
Tramp
New Member
Of course, it happened again last night. The bullpen blows the lead for the starting pitcher, albeit, a horrible call at second base in the 8th. But that's no excuse for Rivera coughing up the winning homer in the ninth. What is wrong with Rivera? This guy hasn't been the same since he blew the 4th game in the World Series against the Sox. The bullpen sucks, plain and simple.
Dump Farnsworth now!
The Clemens deal tells me the Yankees (Steinbrenner) want to win THIS year. They aren't waiting until next year or the year after that. Seems to me that the pressure is really on to bring home the trophy or some very serious heads will roll. Yankee fans are lucky in that their team is owned by a guy who has deep pockets and doesn't mind spending the money for a winner.
Is Clemens worth it? I think the money could be better spent but I'm not his employer. There are plenty of execs and CEOs who are sinfully overpaid and don't produce. People are paid relative to their value to their employer. The Yankees must think Clemens is worth it and only time will tell. If Clemens leads the Yanks to a championship, you'll be hard-pressed to find anyone in New York who will say it was a bad deal or Clemens wasn't worth it.
I have no confidence in Cashman anymore and if the Clemens deal turns out to be a bust, HE (Cashman) should be the first to go. :wave:
Dump Farnsworth now!
The Clemens deal tells me the Yankees (Steinbrenner) want to win THIS year. They aren't waiting until next year or the year after that. Seems to me that the pressure is really on to bring home the trophy or some very serious heads will roll. Yankee fans are lucky in that their team is owned by a guy who has deep pockets and doesn't mind spending the money for a winner.
Is Clemens worth it? I think the money could be better spent but I'm not his employer. There are plenty of execs and CEOs who are sinfully overpaid and don't produce. People are paid relative to their value to their employer. The Yankees must think Clemens is worth it and only time will tell. If Clemens leads the Yanks to a championship, you'll be hard-pressed to find anyone in New York who will say it was a bad deal or Clemens wasn't worth it.
I have no confidence in Cashman anymore and if the Clemens deal turns out to be a bust, HE (Cashman) should be the first to go. :wave:
I couldn't agree more about Cashman...I think he's already working on borrowed time as it is.
Clemens is going to need the bullpen...I highly doubt, at his age, he'll be able to stay in the game longer than 7 innings. (While he was in "spring" training...he even said that he wasn't at the level that he was a year ago).
Hmm...guy has a smidgeon over .500 record...and is telling us he's not in as good of shape as last year...Oh, I know...let's give him an extra 6 million on top of it! *scratches head*
This is what I don't understand. How can a starting pitcher "lead the team to a World Series Championship" when that pitcher only plays 1/5 of the games (in this case, even less)?
34 wins (average amount of starts/pitcher) gets you into the playoffs, through the playoffs, and onto a World Series victory? At most...a starter will see action 4...maybe 5...and if they're in dire need...6 times thoughout the entire playoffs.
A pitching STAFF can lead to a WS Championship...but a single pitcher can't.
If that 28million was spent on improving their bullpen...you could then say, their bullpen paved the way for the WS Championship. It's pitching as a whole...not a single pitcher.
Can Clemens HELP? Yes. But he won't "lead the team to a WS Victory."
Hehe, as a Sox fan, I'm happy they didn't buy a new bullpen
Tramp
New Member
A pitching STAFF can lead to a WS Championship...but a single pitcher can't.
I agree. But some players provide the inspiration and leadership for a much needed attitudinal change in the clubhouse. Paul O'Neil was a major catalyst for success in the Yanks championship teams of the 90s. I don't know if Clemens is a person who can step up and assume that role. He has a crappy work ethic. He's no Jeter or Ortiz.
Ahem...before you Sox fans start raising the AL pennant :zipit: , remember that the Yanks were 9.5 games back on August 1st last year. hehehe
I agree. But some players provide the inspiration and leadership for a much needed attitudinal change in the clubhouse. Paul O'Neil was a major catalyst for success in the Yanks championship teams of the 90s. I don't know if Clemens is a person who can step up and assume that role. He has a crappy work ethic. He's no Jeter or Ortiz.
Ahem...before you Sox fans start raising the AL pennant :zipit: , remember that the Yanks were 9.5 games back on August 1st last year. hehehe
We're not raising anything yet! I think I already said that the Yankees will be in it by the time the Magic Numbers come into play.
Varitek getting hurt was the reason we fell out of it last year. He's our captain...and is the backbone for the majority of our pitching. He does his homework when it comes to what pitches to throw to which batter...and with him not behind the plate, it's a nightmare.
Tramp
New Member
I've been a Yankee fan for over a half century. Stick a fork in them, they're done this year. No matter if you're a Met or Sox fan, ya gotta be amazed at what is happening to the Yanks this year. I've never seen this team less hungry to win. The problems are too numerous to mention in one post. What a disappointment!
I'm not a big fan of dumping the manager of teams when teams aren't doing well. These are major league players making millions of dollars playing a kid's game. The game is won or lost on the field. But this team needs a huge shake-up and it needs to start with both Torre and Cashman. Then trade A-Rod and a few others nonchalants before the trading deadline.
The Sox have a chance to put the final nail in the coffin this weekend. The Sox are super hot and don't look like the team that collapsed last year. If things don't improve soon, I'll miss the annual struggle between these two teams in September cuz the Sox will have clinched by mid-august.
Roger Clemens? Sorry...the only person that can save this team this year is God himself.
I'm not a big fan of dumping the manager of teams when teams aren't doing well. These are major league players making millions of dollars playing a kid's game. The game is won or lost on the field. But this team needs a huge shake-up and it needs to start with both Torre and Cashman. Then trade A-Rod and a few others nonchalants before the trading deadline.
The Sox have a chance to put the final nail in the coffin this weekend. The Sox are super hot and don't look like the team that collapsed last year. If things don't improve soon, I'll miss the annual struggle between these two teams in September cuz the Sox will have clinched by mid-august.
Roger Clemens? Sorry...the only person that can save this team this year is God himself.
Tramp, even I am baffled...
Yes, I'm sure they'll pull it together and they could be in the thick of it come this time in August, and, to be honest...I'd rather have it close than a blowout.
The most disposable player on the Yankees right now is Jason Giambi. They really need to get rid of him. (Just like I say the Sox need to get rid of Wily Mo Pena). Giambi isn't the player he once was and he never will be.
Last night you guys got to see Damon's biggest drawback...everybody knows that his arm is weak and every 3rd base coach in the league knows that they're going to send their guy home if Damon has the ball. I'm not taking anything away from his speed, hitting, and ability to track down balls...he's fantastic in those aspects, but he can't throw to save his life.
The thing with the Yanks this year...is odd. They're not losing because of their pitching, or their hitting, or their defense. It's a different reason every time they take the field. One game they pitch great but the errors cost them...or fluke plays like stealing home last night. It would be a lot easier for Cashman and Torre if they could pinpoint a reason.
Yes, I'm sure they'll pull it together and they could be in the thick of it come this time in August, and, to be honest...I'd rather have it close than a blowout.
The most disposable player on the Yankees right now is Jason Giambi. They really need to get rid of him. (Just like I say the Sox need to get rid of Wily Mo Pena). Giambi isn't the player he once was and he never will be.
Last night you guys got to see Damon's biggest drawback...everybody knows that his arm is weak and every 3rd base coach in the league knows that they're going to send their guy home if Damon has the ball. I'm not taking anything away from his speed, hitting, and ability to track down balls...he's fantastic in those aspects, but he can't throw to save his life.
The thing with the Yanks this year...is odd. They're not losing because of their pitching, or their hitting, or their defense. It's a different reason every time they take the field. One game they pitch great but the errors cost them...or fluke plays like stealing home last night. It would be a lot easier for Cashman and Torre if they could pinpoint a reason.
Wilt Dasney
Well-Known Member
Brian, why do you have a tie column in the record in your sig? :veryconfu :lol:
Tramp
New Member
They'll have to give Giambi away, that is, if anyone wants him. And, even at my age, I'll bet I can throw harder and farther than Damon. He can hardly reach the infield, let alone throw a guy out a home. But, like you said, he still makes things happen offensively when he gets on base.
A-Rod is the biggest loser of all time. Mega millions spent for this guy to take the Yanks to a world series and he still hasn't done it. And what's with these after-hours parties with the lap dancers? I guess he was celebrating the Angels sweep of the Yanks last weekend. And that incident last night with the pop fly was really bush-league play and totally unnecessary.
Can money buy you a pennant?
Here's a photo of what the Yankee payroll looks like: a quarter billion dollars!
YungManBones69
New Member
Roger is a peice of crap. today i heard he regrets signing that, contract. awww poor Roger. Sux it up u little baby u are geting paied 22 mill. Shut up.