Repainting of Epcot Central Plaza?

aladdin2007

Well-Known Member
No tombstones! I miss this entrance so much.
Why does Disney hate trees and grass?

Because they have to pay to maintain them is one guess....... While were discussing Epcot and its buildings etc, what is the deal with Mexico? I wish I had taken a picture the other day but all the ugly rods and antennas on top of the pyramid are really looking like a slum.
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
No tombstones! I miss this entrance so much.
Why does Disney hate trees and grass?
I miss that too! :cry:

As an aside, there is a lovely irony in your asking why Disney hates trees and grass so much in response to vintage pictures of the plazas in front of SSE and The Land. Disney has removed trees at SSE. And added them at The Land - the one place where nature is presented more abstracted. Here they lessened the design by too much greenery, by turning the entrance plaza into a veritable jungle. Where they needed trees, they cut them. Where they did not, they added them.


I think much of it is just a matter of simply 'imagineering' for the sake of it. If you think a place is perfectly well designed, well, then there is little for you to add, is there. No work, no opportunity for you to leave your mark over the previous dog's mark.

There is no honour in just mowing the grass, in upkeeping a place. No, you want to rethink it, re-do it, be an EPCOT designer too, have your own little reception and grand (re)opening, fill your resume, have your turn at the helm. It is all perfectly understandabe, but the work is often pointless and the results comical.
 

Goofnut1980

Well-Known Member
The Communicore buildings seem to engender similar opinions. No matter your opinion though, I think its clear that the current design scheme of the Innoventions area (if there even is one) isn't cutting it these days. The buildings desperately need a proper, cohesive paint job, stripping away of the assorted 90's and 00's clutter and adornments, and a complementary landscape and lighting package. And get those windows uncovered. Boring and simple will always look better than messy and chaotic. Stop trying to mask their architecture or turn the buildings into something they're not.

I'll happily take this:
cmcrext.JPG

Wow.. I love it with the uplighting. It looks so much cleaner!
 

CDavid

Well-Known Member
Furthermore, to overcome this problem, the CC buildings were cut in half for InnoVentions. This greatly undermines what did work about the architecture: the elegance of sleek lines and repetition.

What do you mean by "cut in half for Innoventions"? The breezeways in the center of each structure have always been there.
 

articos

Well-Known Member
I miss that too! :cry:

As an aside, there is a lovely irony in your asking why Disney hates trees and grass so much in response to vintage pictures of the plazas in front of SSE and The Land. Disney has removed trees at SSE. And added them at The Land - the one place where nature is presented more abstracted. Here they lessened the design by too much greenery, by turning the entrance plaza into a veritable jungle. Where they needed trees, they cut them. Where they did not, they added them.


I think much of it is just a matter of simply 'imagineering' for the sake of it. If you think a place is perfectly well designed, well, then there is little for you to add, is there. No work, no opportunity for you to leave your mark over the previous dog's mark.

There is no honour in just mowing the grass, in upkeeping a place. No, you want to rethink it, re-do it, be an EPCOT designer too, have your own little reception and grand (re)opening, fill your resume, have your turn at the helm. It is all perfectly understandabe, but the work is often pointless and the results comical.
I may be wrong, but my guess is those who think that the 80s architecture is dated-looking never saw the park in the early years.

There's some truth to saving money on upkeep, as well as just the fact that it's easier to keep hardscape looking good (in theory) without having to worry about changing out plants or grass dying, etc. - not to take away from your absolutely correct point about taking away from areas that need but adding in to places that don't. But that's a minor piece of the whole problem. In reality, the entry plaza redesign was forced on WDI by marketing and ops. Although the initial idea wasn't bad, and the initial draft JH concepts were true-to-form Hench and fit the park just fine, poor execution by inexperienced designers and design-by-committee changes gave us what we have today. Much of the rest of the changes are just piled on bit-by-bit over time, eating away at the initial design concept.

Communicore was not turned into the abomination it is today overnight: the levels were evened out because someone decided the number of guests surveyed who mentioned it would be better to have a flat surface and it was a potential trip hazard merited something to be done. So the floors are readjusted. Then a few years later, an exhibit is put in where the design team decides the ambient light needs to be reduced to better show the attraction - so they cover a few windows. Then a few months later so another design team decides they want to do the same thing. Then Ops decides they need better crowd-flow, so they ask to open up the plaza, and the committee involved decides the one thing they absolutely, positively must have is more hardscape/paved area for people to walk. Then an area redesign looks at it and decides they need to make it all coherent again, and they just add the kinetics and cover all the windows, not to mention merch and ops have taken it upon themselves to have small construction projects they do themselves without involving WDI that end up with a merchandise wall covering this other window, or that planter getting ripped out. It's a whole bunch of mediocre decisions over time that gets us to this point, with no one that has any bite overseeing the look and feel of the park who can do anything about it. Yes, what you're saying above is a valid consideration - everyone wants to leave their mark, but I don't think it has as much weight as just time and inexperience and no one looking at the big picture. Not to mention the fact there just aren't that many people with the experience or knowledge or instinct in their backgrounds to fill that type of role, as the company doesn't hire for that anymore.
 
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Omnispace

Well-Known Member
yes, I can go with you a long way. I too think the CC buildings some of the weaker in EPCOT. They function great inside, but lack true expressive power from outside.

When fully exposed, they are too bland. This is exactly why the replacement of the parkhub for concrete hub has been a problem. The plaza becoms bland and liveless. The architecture of CC can't carry it. So this blandness then has to be remedied with 'colour and kinetics'. However, that goes against the design principles of EPCOT, so these look cheap and tacky and misplaced.
Furthermore, to overcome this problem, the CC buildings were cut in half for InnoVentions. This greatly undermines what did work about the architecture: the elegance of sleek lines and repetition.

As for 1980s design - why hide it? It is beautiful. I do not understand why Disney wants heir parks to be a-historical. Disney has something unique, a long history, which gives it authenticity and nostalgia. EPCOT is 80s in its most basic design, even in its concept. Any attempt to make it appear contemporary looks fake and unprofound, or at best temporary and outdated within a few years.

The irony is that classic EPCOT is timeless pecisely for being 80s, authentic and original, and all later additions grating and temporary and outdated already.

There were much more expressive designs for Communicore but the designers of the park decided on the final form for a reason. I think it was ultimately decided that the Communicore buildings were to be understated in order to balance the character of the more ambitious pavilions around them. One may consider that their massing is a bit heavy but that helps them to hold their own within the grand context of the park. If anything, the refinement of their tapered overhangs was defeated when they cut into the corners where the new entrances to Innoventions were added. There was no attempt to keep these modifications from looking chopped-up.

I agree that the daylight should be reintroduced into the pavilions. Obviously it makes designing the interiors more challenging since one has to work with daylight instead of just theatrical lighting. Conditions change throughout the day and weather. But that is exactly what makes good architecture interesting. It develops different moods depending on the angle of sunlight, the clouds passing, and whether it is night or day. With its theatrical lighting, Innoventions is always going to be the same. Also, there are a lot of new interesting green technologies for controlling daylight that adjust throughout the day. In some applications they become an art form in themselves. It would be a huge step forward for Disney to reinvest itself in showcasing such technologies at Epcot.
 

SirNim

Well-Known Member
Also, there are a lot of new interesting green technologies for controlling daylight that adjust throughout the day. In some applications they become an art form in themselves. It would be a huge step forward for Disney to reinvest itself in showcasing such technologies at Epcot.
That switchable privacy glass you sometimes see installed in fancy hotel bathrooms comes to mind. Click a button and the glass transforms from clear to opaque.


Or, apparently, it becomes a video monitor too.

Imagine all the glass windows of the interior of Innoventions Plaza turning into a giant video screen at various points in the evening.
 

Omnispace

Well-Known Member
I know the layout of Epcot has been discussed frequently in the past. An interesting comment is that unlike in other parks the "weenie" is placed right at the entrance to the park. It is also argued that because of that, Spaceship Earth has a glut of visitors in the morning and is a walk-on in the afternoon as people move further into the park. This very "quick and rough" image may interest some in helping to visualize what it would be like if they had placed SE more at the center of the park.

Obviously, there needs to be a better transition between the entry plaza and the main plaza, (perhaps a cool PeopleMover station), but reversing the Communicore/SE sequence almost draws one into the park more effectively. The 'Earth Station" becomes a stronger focus of Communicore and thus Future World. Also, with Spaceship Earth being the visual metaphor for Earth, the conceptual connection to World Showcase is stronger. All in good fun -- I doubt they are going to move SE anytime soon. :cool:

Reverse Epcot.jpg
 

DisneyGentleman

Well-Known Member
Since the topic is repainting, any more detail on what is happening?

Has the painting continued, and will end-up look like they are using buckets of leftover paint?

Or are these truly test patches to see what looks best?
 

Figments Friend

Well-Known Member
I think much of it is just a matter of simply 'imagineering' for the sake of it. If you think a place is perfectly well designed, well, then there is little for you to add, is there. No work, no opportunity for you to leave your mark over the previous dog's mark.

There is no honour in just mowing the grass, in upkeeping a place. No, you want to rethink it, re-do it, be an EPCOT designer too, have your own little reception and grand (re)opening, fill your resume, have your turn at the helm. It is all perfectly understandabe, but the work is often pointless and the results comical.

This is so true on several levels.
Far more true a statement then may even be understood.


This is why beautiful works of art, unique experiences, and the Pavilions that housed them were outright destroyed or tastelessly 'enhanced'.
This is why one of THE most sorely missed and beloved Attraction ( make that two..) were wiped clean from EPCOT exsistance.

Being reminded of the needless decimation of those valuable parts of the overall Park experience brings on a sudden wave of crankiness and irritability in me....

( grumbles )
 

Figments Friend

Well-Known Member
The entry plaza redesign was forced on WDI by marketing and ops. Although the initial idea wasn't bad, and the initial draft JH concepts were true-to-form Hench and fit the park just fine, poor execution by inexperienced designers and design-by-committee changes gave us what we have today. Much of the rest of the changes are just piled on bit-by-bit over time, eating away at the initial design concept.

And a great tragedy that was, too.

I am hoping that one day that area can be re-addressed....or should i say, re-dressed!
 

articos

Well-Known Member
Sadly, it was. The two northern quarters were butchered within a year from late 1993 for the first version of Innoventions. Which was even darker and more confusing than it is today.
Innoventions was a conglomeration of good and awful ideas within WDI and the sponsorships team into a mediocre execution under one umbrella - it was supposed to be smaller than what it turned into, but the individual show exhibits were developed for each sponsor, not together, and over a span of time within WDI. It was executed as one project once green lit, cheaply and quickly without a mandate to try to make anything fit the environment. But there were windows being covered and the building being misused both before and after Innoventions was installed. I'm including the central plaza as part of Communicore's demise, too, and the changes to the central plaza. You get my main point, though.
 
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Snowflake82

Active Member
I miss that too! :cry:

As an aside, there is a lovely irony in your asking why Disney hates trees and grass so much in response to vintage pictures of the plazas in front of SSE and The Land. Disney has removed trees at SSE. And added them at The Land - the one place where nature is presented more abstracted. Here they lessened the design by too much greenery, by turning the entrance plaza into a veritable jungle. Where they needed trees, they cut them. Where they did not, they added them.

Thank you for mentioning this. I thought I was the only one who thinks the current entry to the Land is a mess compared to the original. And I felt bad to complain about the place where there they added more greenery, when so much has been taken away. But golly, it is just a mess in front of that pavilion! Walkways blocked by stroller and ECV parking, an incoherent thicket of plants, and a water feature that seems to be turned off much of the time.
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
What do you mean by "cut in half for Innoventions"? The breezeways in the center of each structure have always been there.
I mean that the facades were cut midway at the breezeways, in outward appearance all but turning two CC buildings into four InnoVentions buildings with a covered walkway in between.

CC's roof line was uninterupted, the horizontal line flowing largely undisturbed. For InnoVentions the CC buildings were cut out at the center and at the corner entrances.

oldcot3zq6.jpg
 
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Communicore

Well-Known Member
Right now I'm just reminiscing when my mom yelled at me when I run up and down the steps inside Communicore yes, there were steps in there too bad they don't exist any more.
 

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