Repainting of Epcot Central Plaza?

[jt04]

Oh George.

Yalies

 

[SirNim]

That would have been so much better than the outpost they put there. But then, which country would have been the sponsor for it, and would Disney have been able to count on them sponsoring it for the long run?

De Beers

 

[SirNim]

I think the Equatorial Africa pavilion reflected geopolitical realities of the 1970s while still trying to make World Showcase more inclusive and diverse.

Perhaps trading on an ignorant public's fuzzy grade-school recollections of a legitimate country called "Equatorial Guinea"?

 

[StageFrenzy]

Perhaps trading on an ignorant public's fuzzy grade-school recollections of a legitimate country called "Equatorial Guinea"?

Now sponsored by Ebola

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Oh my goodness I remember hearing about Project Gemini way back when. TBH I'm glad it didn't happen.

It sort of did happen though, most of the major parts to this plan ended up getting carried out anyways in one way or another. Spaceship Earth was thankfully saved from an unfortunate fate of being gutted and replaced by a roller coaster (and really, thank heavens that didn't happen, even the somewhat neutered 2007 version of SSE is still infinitely preferable to the Gemini replacement), but much of the rest of that plan seems to have been followed through with. We lost World of Motion to Test Track, Horizons was lost to Mission Space, Living Seas became Nemo (instead of Little Mermaid but still an inappropriate character tie in regardless), UoE got an Ellen makeover, Land got Soarin (though on the opposite World Showcase side) etc. Wonders of Life ended up being outright shuttered instead of becoming a new attraction. And I would assume based on the timing of this plan (along with the stark change to every other part of Future World), version 2.0 of Imagination was part of this plan as well. So we really did end up getting Project Gemini. A couple of things were thankfully spared, but the damage was done nevertheless. We're right to fear this plan because we basically ended up seeing most of the result anyways. And my god what an awful mess it was, the parts of this plan that they did carry out honestly ruined Future World for me.

 

[Communicore]

Now sponsored by Ebola

Ebola is perfect, they can cross promote Ebola and River Country Amoeba!

 

[JEANYLASER]

What is Ebola?

 

[lazyboy97o]

What is Ebola?

A virus.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ebola

 

[Figments Friend]

Ooohh! It has an Internet Cafe!!

Look! It also has a 'Cool Stuff' Pavilion..!

 

[articos]

Well, if Project Gemini did happen...Future World would have been renamed to Discoveryland..

One of the not-so-well thought out ideas to come out of WDI.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

It sort of did happen though, most of the major parts to this plan ended up getting carried out anyways in one way or another. Spaceship Earth was thankfully saved from an unfortunate fate of being gutted and replaced by a roller coaster (and really, thank heavens that didn't happen, even the somewhat neutered 2007 version of SSE is still infinitely preferable to the Gemini replacement), but much of the rest of that plan seems to have been followed through with. We lost World of Motion to Test Track, Horizons was lost to Mission Space, Living Seas became Nemo (instead of Little Mermaid but still an inappropriate character tie in regardless), UoE got an Ellen makeover, Land got Soarin (though on the opposite World Showcase side) etc. Wonders of Life ended up being outright shuttered instead of becoming a new attraction. And I would assume based on the timing of this plan (along with the stark change to every other part of Future World), version 2.0 of Imagination was part of this plan as well. So we really did end up getting Project Gemini. A couple of things were thankfully spared, but the damage was done nevertheless. We're right to fear this plan because we basically ended up seeing most of the result anyways. And my god what an awful mess it was, the parts of this plan that they did carry out honestly ruined Future World for me.

Yes, the FW of Gemini is awful, and would've been worse the more had been implemented.

However, nearly all of the FW destruction had been done before Project Gemini. Energy, Space, TT, Imagination. The aspects of Gemini that did come to pass later - Seas dumbification and Soarin' - likely did not take their cue from Gemini, but took their cue from the same source as Gemini did.

 

[Tom Morrow]

In my opinion, the Innoventions/Communicore buildings are not as architecturally impressive as many of you suggest. If you were the paint them their original colors and have them fully exposed, yeah, it would look "cleaner", but also entirely bland and commonplace, in addition to highlighting their very 1980's design. These paint jobs serve to mask their outdated look.

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

In my opinion, the Innoventions/Communicore buildings are not as architecturally impressive as many of you suggest. If you were the paint them their original colors and have them fully exposed, yeah, it would look "cleaner", but also entirely bland and commonplace, in addition to highlighting their very 1980's design. These paint jobs serve to mask their outdated look.

I can see the bland argument, but from an architectural standpoint, repeating geometry and simple lines can also be viewed as clean, elegant and impressive. I know the design of DC's underground Metrorail stations continues to fuel debate some 30-40 years after they were built. Some find them elegant works of art, others boring and "Soviet-esque."

The Communicore buildings seem to engender similar opinions. No matter your opinion though, I think its clear that the current design scheme of the Innoventions area (if there even is one) isn't cutting it these days. The buildings desperately need a proper, cohesive paint job, stripping away of the assorted 90's and 00's clutter and adornments, and a complementary landscape and lighting package. And get those windows uncovered. Boring and simple will always look better than messy and chaotic. Stop trying to mask their architecture or turn the buildings into something they're not.

I'll happily take this:

Over this:

 

[ChrisFL]

I can see the bland argument, but from an architectural standpoint, repeating geometry and simple lines can also be viewed as clean, elegant and impressive. I know the design of DC's underground Metrorail stations continues to fuel debate some 30-40 years after they were built. Some find them elegant works of art, others boring and "Soviet-esque."

Seeing that photo, it does seem to be on the line between bright/clean/futuristic and dull concrete chamber

 

[Omnispace]

That is exactly it!

I never heard of that Hench comment. It is spot on. Precisely why iFW worked so well, why it left such an indelible impression on those who visited it. This counterpoint with the shows inside the pavilions was magnificent.
FW was a spiritual experience. Not in any religious sense, but in the way of a zen garden, or of being overwhelmed with a grand natural vista. Niagara Falls, Hudson Valley in fall, Grand Canyon. If you've seen them, it never leaves you.


@marni1971 - trust you to have the best overview picture! Splendid, thanks.

I've been looking for that source for the John Hench comment but unfortunately can't find it. I'd like to find it because it continued with some very interesting insights on Epcot and how it was designed. In the meantime, I did find this interesting take on Communicore and its change to Innoventions Plaza from Designing Disney's Theme Parks, The Architecture of Reassurance, 1997, pg 168.

"Into this word, according to Barry Braverman, who oversaw the EPCOT Design Studio, recent plussing has tried to bring a new sense of urbanism. The plaza at the center of Future World was an empty, forbidding space, formal and cold. Signage, color, and light have been added to simulate the electric sensibility if the Ginza."

It's interesting how there can be very different viewpoints on exactly the same space. Whereas some people can perceive it as Zen, others can think it is "formal and cold". I can understand the intent to create an active space that creates a sense of excitement, and Tokyo's Ginza district certainly does that, but one has to really consider if that is the right design choice based on a proper understanding of the issues at large. Communicore Plaza could have been made more exciting in other more appropriate ways than adding a Ginza overlay, and there is a lot more to what makes the Ginza exciting other than neon and visual clutter. One also has to consider if the plaza is truly an urban space.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

In my opinion, the Innoventions/Communicore buildings are not as architecturally impressive as many of you suggest. If you were the paint them their original colors and have them fully exposed, yeah, it would look "cleaner", but also entirely bland and commonplace, in addition to highlighting their very 1980's design. These paint jobs serve to mask their outdated look.

yes, I can go with you a long way. I too think the CC buildings some of the weaker in EPCOT. They function great inside, but lack true expressive power from outside.

When fully exposed, they are too bland. This is exactly why the replacement of the parkhub for concrete hub has been a problem. The plaza becoms bland and liveless. The architecture of CC can't carry it. So this blandness then has to be remedied with 'colour and kinetics'. However, that goes against the design principles of EPCOT, so these look cheap and tacky and misplaced.
Furthermore, to overcome this problem, the CC buildings were cut in half for InnoVentions. This greatly undermines what did work about the architecture: the elegance of sleek lines and repetition.

As for 1980s design - why hide it? It is beautiful. I do not understand why Disney wants heir parks to be a-historical. Disney has something unique, a long history, which gives it authenticity and nostalgia. EPCOT is 80s in its most basic design, even in its concept. Any attempt to make it appear contemporary looks fake and unprofound, or at best temporary and outdated within a few years.

The irony is that classic EPCOT is timeless pecisely for being 80s, authentic and original, and all later additions grating and temporary and outdated already.

 

[Andrew C]

yes, I can go with you a long way. I too think the CC buildings some of the weaker in EPCOT. They function great inside, but lack true expressive power from outside.

When fully exposed, they are too bland. This is exactly why the replacement of the parkhub for concrete hub has been a problem. The plaza becoms bland and liveless. The architecture of CC can't carry it. So this blandness then has to be remedied with 'colour and kinetics'. However, that goes against the design principles of EPCOT, so these look cheap and tacky and misplaced.
Furthermore, to overcome this problem, the CC buildings were cut in half for InnoVentions. This greatly undermines what did work about the architecture: the elegance of sleek lines and repetition.

As for 1980s design - why hide it? It is beautiful. I do not understand why Disney wants heir parks to be a-historical. Disney has something unique, a long history, which gives it authenticity and nostalgia. EPCOT is 80s in its most basic design, even in its concept. Any attempt to make it appear contemporary looks fake and unprofound, or at best temporary and outdated within a few years.

The irony is that classic EPCOT is timeless pecisely for being 80s, authentic and original, and all later additions grating and temporary and outdated already.

I do not think the 80's design looks historic, timeless, or beautiful. It just looks out of date.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I've been looking for that source for the John Hench comment but unfortunately can't find it. I'd like to find it because it continued with some very interesting insights on Epcot and how it was designed. In the meantime, I did find this interesting take on Communicore and its change to Innoventions Plaza from Designing Disney's Theme Parks, The Architecture of Reassurance, 1997, pg 168.

"Into this word, according to Barry Braverman, who oversaw the EPCOT Design Studio, recent plussing has tried to bring a new sense of urbanism. The plaza at the center of Future World was an empty, forbidding space, formal and cold. Signage, color, and light have been added to simulate the electric sensibility if the Ginza."

It's interesting how there can be very different viewpoints on exactly the same space. Whereas some people can perceive it as Zen, others can think it is "formal and cold". I can understand the intent to create an active space that creates a sense of excitement, and Tokyo's Ginza district certainly does that, but one has to really consider if that is the right design choice based on a proper understanding of the issues at large. Communicore Plaza could have been made more exciting in other more appropriate ways than adding a Ginza overlay, and there is a lot more to what makes the Ginza exciting other than neon and visual clutter. One also has to consider if the plaza is truly an urban space.

Cool, thanks, would love to read more of Hench's thoughts.


I have taken that useless Braverman 'Ginza' quote and have printed it five hundred fold on soft layered paper. It will soon have meaningful use for the first time.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I do not think the 80's design looks historic, timeless, or beautiful. It just looks out of date.

Ok.

 

[note2001]

No tombstones! I miss this entrance so much.
Why does Disney hate trees and grass?