News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[castlecake2.0]

"Why are y'all such boneheads?"

Oh, wait, serious questions...

Your recommendations are spot on. Read the Charter several times, highlight those parts that are unclear or which you want to ask questions regarding.

Write down your questions. Review the public notice in the Orlando paper in order to find how to get a copy of the agenda...they must provide if asked. Ask how long each member of the public will be given to make public comments. This is important so you can pare down questions/comments so you don't exceed the time limit. Be succinct - they don't like folks who ramble. Don't shout - they won't hear you any better. Frankly, I'd practice asking my questions. Media will be there and that can make some nervous. Get there early - typically there's a list you put yourself on to make comments.

I am hoping this Board isn't like some of the Legislative committees that limited public comments to 15-30 seconds. That's barely enough time to state your name.

I commented last week, was nervous, but had everything written down. You get three minutes, but if you bring other people they can give you their time so you can speak longer. They will “listen” but will not answer any questions. I’ve asked the RCID if they would provide any more information on this resolution and waiting for a response. So far all I can find is this. Also does anyone have a link to the charter (I’m in my last week of university before graduating so I apologize for being needy, just got lots of final papers due this week so I do t have a lot of time to add this on top)

 

[Chi84]

I commented last week, was nervous, but had everything written down. You get three minutes, but if you bring other people they can give you their time so you can speak longer. They will “listen” but will not answer any questions. I’ve asked the RCID if they would provide any more information on this resolution and waiting for a response. So far all I can find is this. Also does anyone have a link to the charter (I’m in my last week of university before graduating so I apologize for being needy, just got lots of final papers due this week so I do t have a lot of time to add this on top)View attachment 711633

https://www.rcid.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/RCID-Charter.pdf

 

[GoofGoof]

The issue is is the contracts clause, not the ex post facto clause (ex post facto relates to criminal activity, as mentioned). They're separate.

There are limits to the contracts clause in that it no longer bans any government action impairing contracts, but any laws doing so have to be appropriately tailored for a legitimate public purpose.

Which would end up as a decision for a judge (and then likely an appellate judge, and then potentially the Supreme Court).

What could the state possibly give as the legitimate public purpose? What is allowed in Disney’s development agreement that could be considered a problem that would warrant passing a law essentially designed to only cancel that contract?

 

[UNCgolf]

What could the state possibly give as the legitimate public purpose? What is allowed in Disney’s development agreement that could be considered a problem that would warrant passing a law essentially designed to only cancel that contract?

No idea. I'm sure they can come up with something, but who knows if it would be enough to convince a judge (or multiple judges, since it would likely be appealed one way or another).

 

[LaPo@1972!]

I just do not understand why, after all these years, now there is an issue with WDW. When the vast majority of people that live around WDW purchased their homes, WDW was already there and owned all the property around them. Now there is a problem?!? WDW brings so much tourism to Orlando. If they were to uproot and leave, it would devastate the economy in Orlando. The tourists that come to WDW don't just spend money at WDW. There is a huge home rental market...that would be gone. There are so many restaurants and shopping...that would be gone. It may not be immediate, but I truly think this is not being thought through to what Orlando looks like at the end of this.

 

[GoofGoof]

No idea. I'm sure they can come up with something, but who knows if it would be enough to convince a judge (or multiple judges, since it would likely be appealed one way or another).

Yeah it will be interesting to see what they come up with. I understand that there could be a legitimate change in law for the public’s best interest that could impact a contract, particularly a long term contract, but I would hope the bar for that would be set very high and can’t just be ”because I said so”. Otherwise any and every contract could be voided with a simple act of the legislature. That’s definitely not the intention. I also think a lot of judges (old school particularly conservative ones) would have a real hard time allowing a government entity to void a contract for political reasons. That sets a dangerous precedent and is extremely anti-business.

 

[lazyboy97o]

No idea. I'm sure they can come up with something, but who knows if it would be enough to convince a judge (or multiple judges, since it would likely be appealed one way or another).

Isn’t that the sort of thing you’d put in the Whereas section?

Affordable housing is a reason they cannot really use since state law now considers affordable housing an acceptable use for much of the District’s existing zoning.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

What could the state possibly give as the legitimate public purpose? What is allowed in Disney’s development agreement that could be considered a problem that would warrant passing a law essentially designed to only cancel that contract?

He could double down on how the new board wanted to have influence over the content of what was in the parks, would could say not having that ability prevents them from protecting children or some other nonsense

 

[ParentsOf4]

No idea. I'm sure they can come up with something, but who knows if it would be enough to convince a judge (or multiple judges, since it would likely be appealed one way or another).

On February 27, DeSantis' office released the following statement:

Allowing a corporation to control its own government is bad policy, especially when the corporation makes decisions that impact an entire region,” said Governor Ron DeSantis. “This legislation ends Disney’s self-governing status, makes Disney live under the same laws as everybody else, and ensures that Disney pays its debts and fair share of taxes.”​

​

HB 9-B ends Disney’s self-governing status and imposes a five-member state control board that is appointed by the Governor and subject to Senate confirmation.​

This legislation amends the Reedy Creek Improvement District charter which:​

• ENDS Disney’s self-governing status.
• ENDS Disney’s exemption from the Florida Building Code and Florida Fire Prevention Code.
• ENDS Disney’s exemption from state regulatory reviews and approvals.
• ENDS Disney’s secrecy by ensuring transparency.
• ENSURES that Disney will pay its fair share of taxes.
• PREVENTS leftist local governments from using the situation to raise local taxes.
• IMPOSES Florida law so that Disney is no longer given preferential treatment.
• ENSURES that Disney’s municipal debt will be paid by Disney, not Florida taxpayers.

All of these could be legitimate reasons for the governor's actions, if they were true.

None of these are the real reason for the governor's actions.

 

[Chi84]

He could double down on how the new board wanted to have influence over the content of what was in the parks, would could say not having that ability prevents them from protecting children or some other nonsense

I suppose he could, but what in the RCID (now CFTOD) charter gives the board authority to influence the content of the parks? They can't come out and say inspectors are going to abuse their authority to find violations where none exist or that they are going to deny permits on the basis of content when nothing gives them that right.

It's one thing to threaten people with an abuse of power; it's another to try to give that as a legitimate public purpose.

 

[GoofGoof]

On February 27, DeSantis' office released the following statement:

Allowing a corporation to control its own government is bad policy, especially when the corporation makes decisions that impact an entire region,” said Governor Ron DeSantis. “This legislation ends Disney’s self-governing status, makes Disney live under the same laws as everybody else, and ensures that Disney pays its debts and fair share of taxes.”​

​

HB 9-B ends Disney’s self-governing status and imposes a five-member state control board that is appointed by the Governor and subject to Senate confirmation.​

This legislation amends the Reedy Creek Improvement District charter which:​

• ENDS Disney’s self-governing status.
• ENDS Disney’s exemption from the Florida Building Code and Florida Fire Prevention Code.
• ENDS Disney’s exemption from state regulatory reviews and approvals.
• ENDS Disney’s secrecy by ensuring transparency.
• ENSURES that Disney will pay its fair share of taxes.
• PREVENTS leftist local governments from using the situation to raise local taxes.
• IMPOSES Florida law so that Disney is no longer given preferential treatment.
• ENSURES that Disney’s municipal debt will be paid by Disney, not Florida taxpayers.

All of these are legitimate reasons for the governor's actions.

None of these are the real reason for the governor's actions.

The bold and underlined above could maybe be debated. The rest are just political talking points with no basis in reality.

 

[No more florida]

Increase WDW taxes to cover costs so taxpayers don't have to subsidize Disney

Why would you want to increase taxes on you main money maker? WDW built central Florida. I live in Ohio and can remember the first time I went in 1978 and there was nothing in that entire area. Disney agreed to build the needed infrastructure for the park as long as they could control what was built on the land they developed. It cost the local governments nothing. Now they was to abuse government authority and try and pull out of an agreement. They made 55 years ago. If Disney had any sense, they would cancel any further development and start plans for a third US park and develope it. Clearly Florida does not appreciate what they have been give. I’ve been there many time and spent money all over the area. I’m not going back.

 

[seascape]

Disney voluntarily placed themselves in the district in the first place 50 years ago.

They reaped the benefits of it for 50 years of autonomy.

Them losing that ability, while the merits of that loss can certainly be argued, have nothing to do with the outcome of their current predicament, particularly surrounding their (yet to be proven in court) intentional subversion of Florida municipal code and law.

If this were just over removing the RCID, Disney would probably lose. However, the new Board with absolute control over WDW is unconstitutional. The new Board was created solely in retaliation. The state should have just done away with the RCID and returned the power to the Counties. However, DeSantis knew he couldn't do that because of all the extra taxes Disney pays for the RCID.

 

[danlb_2000]

I just do not understand why, after all these years, now there is an issue with WDW. When the vast majority of people that live around WDW purchased their homes, WDW was already there and owned all the property around them. Now there is a problem?!? WDW brings so much tourism to Orlando. If they were to uproot and leave, it would devastate the economy in Orlando. The tourists that come to WDW don't just spend money at WDW. There is a huge home rental market...that would be gone. There are so many restaurants and shopping...that would be gone. It may not be immediate, but I truly think this is not being thought through to what Orlando looks like at the end of this.

There is no issue issue with WDW or RCID, this is just an easy way for governor to punish Disney for opposing a piece of legislation.

 

[EeyoreFan#24]

If this were just over removing the RCID, Disney would probably lose. However, the new Board with absolute control over WDW is unconstitutional. The new Board was created solely in retaliation. The state should have just done away with the RCID and returned the power to the Counties. However, DeSantis knew he couldn't do that because of all the extra taxes Disney pays for the RCID.

I'm wondering if that's how it's going to end up -
1. New district stands or is not challenged (State gets to keep its new name and appointments)
2. Developer agreement is challenged, but left in place (Disney keeps agreement)
3. New board gets to hold meetings and "maintain the roads and maintain the basic infrastructure" and whatever other functions it has left.

So basically, each party gets what they want or at least the best they can get and moves on. Then the new board gets left in the dust doing stuff they probably think is below them.

 

[LAKid53]

The Florida Supreme Court seems to think it's also only for criminal laws (see page 7 here).

However, the Florida court has ruled that in cases in which an entity cannot utilize its rights with regards to property, Article I, Section 10 will apply.

 

[LAKid53]

I just do not understand why, after all these years, now there is an issue with WDW. When the vast majority of people that live around WDW purchased their homes, WDW was already there and owned all the property around them. Now there is a problem?!? WDW brings so much tourism to Orlando. If they were to uproot and leave, it would devastate the economy in Orlando. The tourists that come to WDW don't just spend money at WDW. There is a huge home rental market...that would be gone. There are so many restaurants and shopping...that would be gone. It may not be immediate, but I truly think this is not being thought through to what Orlando looks like at the end of this.

Not just the economy of Central Florida, but the entire state.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'm wondering if that's how it's going to end up -
1. New district stands or is not challenged (State gets to keep its new name and appointments)
2. Developer agreement is challenged, but left in place (Disney keeps agreement)
3. New board gets to hold meetings and "maintain the roads and maintain the basic infrastructure" and whatever other functions it has left.

So basically, each party gets what they want or at least the best they can get and moves on. Then the new board gets left in the dust doing stuff they probably think is below them.

Except the Board and state still have many avenues available to interfere with Disney’s operations. The governor just gave a whole press conference outlining several options. They don’t have a good faith interest in operating the district so they’re not going to accept it because it’s not what they really want.

 

[LAKid53]

On February 27, DeSantis' office released the following statement:

Allowing a corporation to control its own government is bad policy, especially when the corporation makes decisions that impact an entire region,” said Governor Ron DeSantis. “This legislation ends Disney’s self-governing status, makes Disney live under the same laws as everybody else, and ensures that Disney pays its debts and fair share of taxes.”​

​

HB 9-B ends Disney’s self-governing status and imposes a five-member state control board that is appointed by the Governor and subject to Senate confirmation.​

This legislation amends the Reedy Creek Improvement District charter which:​

• ENDS Disney’s self-governing status.
• ENDS Disney’s exemption from the Florida Building Code and Florida Fire Prevention Code.
• ENDS Disney’s exemption from state regulatory reviews and approvals.
• ENDS Disney’s secrecy by ensuring transparency.
• ENSURES that Disney will pay its fair share of taxes.
• PREVENTS leftist local governments from using the situation to raise local taxes.
• IMPOSES Florida law so that Disney is no longer given preferential treatment.
• ENSURES that Disney’s municipal debt will be paid by Disney, not Florida taxpayers.

All of these could be legitimate reasons for the governor's actions, if they were true.

None of these are the real reason for the governor's actions.

Disney pays the same millage rate in property taxes to Orange County that I do as a property owner in the county. In addition, Disney pays RCID ~ $160 million a year in assessments. And Florida corporate income taxes. So that point is bogus.

Did not realize this, but to help mitigate flooding in areas of the county from Ian last September, Reedy Creek voluntarily flooded areas of the District. It told the county and state it would do so, unasked. RCID has been an important partner in protecting the ecosystem of the region.

So DeSantis is wrong in his assertion that both RCID and TWDC are only self serving.

 

[seascape]

I'm wondering if that's how it's going to end up -
1. New district stands or is not challenged (State gets to keep its new name and appointments)
2. Developer agreement is challenged, but left in place (Disney keeps agreement)
3. New board gets to hold meetings and "maintain the roads and maintain the basic infrastructure" and whatever other functions it has left.

So basically, each party gets what they want or at least the best they can get and moves on. Then the new board gets left in the dust doing stuff they probably think is below them.

I think there are 3 possible outcomes. First, the courts rule the entire process Desatis took was unconstitutional and c we go back to the original RCID. Second, the first bill eliminating the RCID is legal but the second bill taking over RCID is unconstitutional. Or third the state had the right to take over the district but the property owners still have the legal right to abolish the district and Disney does. Everyone is ignoring the property owners right to voluntarily abolish their special district.