News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Chi84]

He could double down on how the new board wanted to have influence over the content of what was in the parks, would could say not having that ability prevents them from protecting children or some other nonsense

I suppose he could, but what in the RCID (now CFTOD) charter gives the board authority to influence the content of the parks? They can't come out and say inspectors are going to abuse their authority to find violations where none exist or that they are going to deny permits on the basis of content when nothing gives them that right.

It's one thing to threaten people with an abuse of power; it's another to try to give that as a legitimate public purpose.

 

[GoofGoof]

On February 27, DeSantis' office released the following statement:

Allowing a corporation to control its own government is bad policy, especially when the corporation makes decisions that impact an entire region,” said Governor Ron DeSantis. “This legislation ends Disney’s self-governing status, makes Disney live under the same laws as everybody else, and ensures that Disney pays its debts and fair share of taxes.”​

​

HB 9-B ends Disney’s self-governing status and imposes a five-member state control board that is appointed by the Governor and subject to Senate confirmation.​

This legislation amends the Reedy Creek Improvement District charter which:​

• ENDS Disney’s self-governing status.
• ENDS Disney’s exemption from the Florida Building Code and Florida Fire Prevention Code.
• ENDS Disney’s exemption from state regulatory reviews and approvals.
• ENDS Disney’s secrecy by ensuring transparency.
• ENSURES that Disney will pay its fair share of taxes.
• PREVENTS leftist local governments from using the situation to raise local taxes.
• IMPOSES Florida law so that Disney is no longer given preferential treatment.
• ENSURES that Disney’s municipal debt will be paid by Disney, not Florida taxpayers.

All of these are legitimate reasons for the governor's actions.

None of these are the real reason for the governor's actions.

The bold and underlined above could maybe be debated. The rest are just political talking points with no basis in reality.

 

[No more florida]

Increase WDW taxes to cover costs so taxpayers don't have to subsidize Disney

Why would you want to increase taxes on you main money maker? WDW built central Florida. I live in Ohio and can remember the first time I went in 1978 and there was nothing in that entire area. Disney agreed to build the needed infrastructure for the park as long as they could control what was built on the land they developed. It cost the local governments nothing. Now they was to abuse government authority and try and pull out of an agreement. They made 55 years ago. If Disney had any sense, they would cancel any further development and start plans for a third US park and develope it. Clearly Florida does not appreciate what they have been give. I’ve been there many time and spent money all over the area. I’m not going back.

 

[seascape]

Disney voluntarily placed themselves in the district in the first place 50 years ago.

They reaped the benefits of it for 50 years of autonomy.

Them losing that ability, while the merits of that loss can certainly be argued, have nothing to do with the outcome of their current predicament, particularly surrounding their (yet to be proven in court) intentional subversion of Florida municipal code and law.

If this were just over removing the RCID, Disney would probably lose. However, the new Board with absolute control over WDW is unconstitutional. The new Board was created solely in retaliation. The state should have just done away with the RCID and returned the power to the Counties. However, DeSantis knew he couldn't do that because of all the extra taxes Disney pays for the RCID.

 

[danlb_2000]

I just do not understand why, after all these years, now there is an issue with WDW. When the vast majority of people that live around WDW purchased their homes, WDW was already there and owned all the property around them. Now there is a problem?!? WDW brings so much tourism to Orlando. If they were to uproot and leave, it would devastate the economy in Orlando. The tourists that come to WDW don't just spend money at WDW. There is a huge home rental market...that would be gone. There are so many restaurants and shopping...that would be gone. It may not be immediate, but I truly think this is not being thought through to what Orlando looks like at the end of this.

There is no issue issue with WDW or RCID, this is just an easy way for governor to punish Disney for opposing a piece of legislation.

 

[EeyoreFan#24]

If this were just over removing the RCID, Disney would probably lose. However, the new Board with absolute control over WDW is unconstitutional. The new Board was created solely in retaliation. The state should have just done away with the RCID and returned the power to the Counties. However, DeSantis knew he couldn't do that because of all the extra taxes Disney pays for the RCID.

I'm wondering if that's how it's going to end up -
1. New district stands or is not challenged (State gets to keep its new name and appointments)
2. Developer agreement is challenged, but left in place (Disney keeps agreement)
3. New board gets to hold meetings and "maintain the roads and maintain the basic infrastructure" and whatever other functions it has left.

So basically, each party gets what they want or at least the best they can get and moves on. Then the new board gets left in the dust doing stuff they probably think is below them.

 

[LAKid53]

The Florida Supreme Court seems to think it's also only for criminal laws (see page 7 here).

However, the Florida court has ruled that in cases in which an entity cannot utilize its rights with regards to property, Article I, Section 10 will apply.

 

[LAKid53]

I just do not understand why, after all these years, now there is an issue with WDW. When the vast majority of people that live around WDW purchased their homes, WDW was already there and owned all the property around them. Now there is a problem?!? WDW brings so much tourism to Orlando. If they were to uproot and leave, it would devastate the economy in Orlando. The tourists that come to WDW don't just spend money at WDW. There is a huge home rental market...that would be gone. There are so many restaurants and shopping...that would be gone. It may not be immediate, but I truly think this is not being thought through to what Orlando looks like at the end of this.

Not just the economy of Central Florida, but the entire state.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'm wondering if that's how it's going to end up -
1. New district stands or is not challenged (State gets to keep its new name and appointments)
2. Developer agreement is challenged, but left in place (Disney keeps agreement)
3. New board gets to hold meetings and "maintain the roads and maintain the basic infrastructure" and whatever other functions it has left.

So basically, each party gets what they want or at least the best they can get and moves on. Then the new board gets left in the dust doing stuff they probably think is below them.

Except the Board and state still have many avenues available to interfere with Disney’s operations. The governor just gave a whole press conference outlining several options. They don’t have a good faith interest in operating the district so they’re not going to accept it because it’s not what they really want.

 

[LAKid53]

On February 27, DeSantis' office released the following statement:

Allowing a corporation to control its own government is bad policy, especially when the corporation makes decisions that impact an entire region,” said Governor Ron DeSantis. “This legislation ends Disney’s self-governing status, makes Disney live under the same laws as everybody else, and ensures that Disney pays its debts and fair share of taxes.”​

​

HB 9-B ends Disney’s self-governing status and imposes a five-member state control board that is appointed by the Governor and subject to Senate confirmation.​

This legislation amends the Reedy Creek Improvement District charter which:​

• ENDS Disney’s self-governing status.
• ENDS Disney’s exemption from the Florida Building Code and Florida Fire Prevention Code.
• ENDS Disney’s exemption from state regulatory reviews and approvals.
• ENDS Disney’s secrecy by ensuring transparency.
• ENSURES that Disney will pay its fair share of taxes.
• PREVENTS leftist local governments from using the situation to raise local taxes.
• IMPOSES Florida law so that Disney is no longer given preferential treatment.
• ENSURES that Disney’s municipal debt will be paid by Disney, not Florida taxpayers.

All of these could be legitimate reasons for the governor's actions, if they were true.

None of these are the real reason for the governor's actions.

Disney pays the same millage rate in property taxes to Orange County that I do as a property owner in the county. In addition, Disney pays RCID ~ $160 million a year in assessments. And Florida corporate income taxes. So that point is bogus.

Did not realize this, but to help mitigate flooding in areas of the county from Ian last September, Reedy Creek voluntarily flooded areas of the District. It told the county and state it would do so, unasked. RCID has been an important partner in protecting the ecosystem of the region.

So DeSantis is wrong in his assertion that both RCID and TWDC are only self serving.

 

[seascape]

I'm wondering if that's how it's going to end up -
1. New district stands or is not challenged (State gets to keep its new name and appointments)
2. Developer agreement is challenged, but left in place (Disney keeps agreement)
3. New board gets to hold meetings and "maintain the roads and maintain the basic infrastructure" and whatever other functions it has left.

So basically, each party gets what they want or at least the best they can get and moves on. Then the new board gets left in the dust doing stuff they probably think is below them.

I think there are 3 possible outcomes. First, the courts rule the entire process Desatis took was unconstitutional and c we go back to the original RCID. Second, the first bill eliminating the RCID is legal but the second bill taking over RCID is unconstitutional. Or third the state had the right to take over the district but the property owners still have the legal right to abolish the district and Disney does. Everyone is ignoring the property owners right to voluntarily abolish their special district.

 

[JAB]

I think there are 3 possible outcomes. First, the courts rule the entire process Desatis took was unconstitutional and c we go back to the original RCID. Second, the first bill eliminating the RCID is legal but the second bill taking over RCID is unconstitutional. Or third the state had the right to take over the district but the property owners still have the legal right to abolish the district and Disney does. Everyone is ignoring the property owners right to voluntarily abolish their special district.

Wouldn't dissolving the district dump its bond debt and maintenance expenses onto Orange and Osceola counties? I don't think Disney would want be the ones responsible for that, as it would really strain their relationship with the counties. That's probably why no one talks about it - because even if it's possible, it's very unlikely.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Wouldn't dissolving the district dump its bond debt and maintenance expenses onto Orange and Osceola counties? I don't think Disney would want be the ones responsible for that, as it would really strain their relationship with the counties. That's probably why no one talks about it - because even if it's possible, it's very unlikely.

Not necessarily. The planned dissolution dumped the debt on the counties because it (I don’t recall at the moment if it was in the bill itself or a reference to another statute) gave the assets and liabilities to the pre-existing local governments. A dissolution that handed the assets and liabilities to the existing local governments would shift much of that to the cities of Bay Lake and Lake Buena. Those cities could also annex the unincorporated district lands so that nothing went to the counties. This would still have issues with the bonds but the dumbing debt on the counties is not a given but doesn’t remove Disney’s de facto control.

 

[GoofGoof]

I'm wondering if that's how it's going to end up -
1. New district stands or is not challenged (State gets to keep its new name and appointments)
2. Developer agreement is challenged, but left in place (Disney keeps agreement)
3. New board gets to hold meetings and "maintain the roads and maintain the basic infrastructure" and whatever other functions it has left.

So basically, each party gets what they want or at least the best they can get and moves on. Then the new board gets left in the dust doing stuff they probably think is below them.

That is exactly what Disney has said that they want publicly. They didn’t publicly/legally challenge the board takeover. They didn’t sue the state for potential 1st amendment violations. After the 2nd bill passed they released a statement saying that they were going to continue business as usual and work with the new board. Instead of being standoffish and threatening to pause investment or pull back in FL, Iger made public statements saying they plan to invest even more in the state. The company (at least publicly) seems sincerely interested in continuing to run its successful theme parks in FL, entertain their guests and make billions in the process.

So if your 3 steps above happen (I hope they do ) then Disney gets what they want. The problem with all of this is the other side does not. What the Governor wants is a crusade. He wants a win. He wants something to brag about in campaign speeches in Iowa and NH and many other states. I don’t think he cares about roads or governing or local taxes.

 

[seascape]

Wouldn't dissolving the district dump its bond debt and maintenance expenses onto Orange and Osceola counties? I don't think Disney would want be the ones responsible for that, as it would really strain their relationship with the counties. That's probably why no one talks about it - because even if it's possible, it's very unlikely.

If Disney were to voluntarily give up the district, they would have to pay the bonds. However, if the courts ruled that the first bill was legal but the second wasn't, that would be interesting. Disney could then say are no longer liable for the bonds or voluntarily agree to pay them but put restrictions on that agreement. I know Disney is willing to go back to the original RCID or even a slightly modified version but what is currently in place is unacceptable

 

[castlecake2.0]

Is the district able to levy fines? I’m thinking back to how they could enforce Covid rules they’re making up. I feel like only bay lake and lake Buena vista can issue bylaws and fines?

 

[castlecake2.0]

Nobody forced Disney to build that resort on the absolute edge of their 47 square miles of land.

There is a two lane road that goes out right near the entrance of that resort that'll take you past the Company D store and right into one of the more run-down areas outside of WDW.

Unsure if true but I remember reading they built it there to stop the Osceola Parkway from going right through property

 

[flyakite]

Can someone speak on how this would look in a lawsuit regarding intention of the governor:

Carolina Amesty - Florida State Representative - Windermere
April 17, 2023. Gov. DeSantis press conference WDW

“It’s time for Disney executives to have a sober conversation and retake the company from the woke ideologues who hijacked it.

You’re in the business of entertaining families, not promoting radical ideologies.

If you think you are, I have news: Florida is where woke goes to die.”

I hope a judge would not minimize this.

 

[drnilescrane]

Unsure if true but I remember reading they built it there to stop the Osceola Parkway from going right through property

They at some point wanted Osceola Parkway to go through property and connect to 429. The main driveway of the hotel is a 4 lane divided highway that randomly drops down to 2 undivided lanes past the old guest entrance specifically because it was meant to connect through. Kidani was the afterthought.

They changed plans when they bought the land for Flamingo Crossings and decided to build Western Way instead.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Not necessarily. The planned dissolution dumped the debt on the counties because it (I don’t recall at the moment if it was in the bill itself or a reference to another statute) gave the assets and liabilities to the pre-existing local governments. A dissolution that handed the assets and liabilities to the existing local governments would shift much of that to the cities of Bay Lake and Lake Buena. Those cities could also annex the unincorporated district lands so that nothing went to the counties. This would still have issues with the bonds but the dumbing debt on the counties is not a given but doesn’t remove Disney’s de facto control.

…so basically…it would have become a tangle that they should have never even broached in the first place?

It’s February 2nd again.

“Don’t pull on that that string”