Props removed from Adventurers Club, signage removed from Bet Soundstage and Comedy

[WDWFigment]

I'm sorry you don't like my assessment. I don't like when people essentially say to others "You're wrong, but I can't tell you how I know you're wrong or why you are wrong. You simply have to believe that I know more than you."

I love the website, btw. But when you participate in the forums, you're just like the rest of us. Your credibility is judged by the information you provide, when you provide it and its accuracy.

The reality of the situation is that WDW has been feeding the same line of BS for three years and the only thing that's actually been accomplished at Pleasure Island was the introduction of seed and mulch. Could something actually be happening around the corner? Sure. But I'll believe it when I actually see it - that is the level of WDW's credibility on all PI related projects as far as I'm concerned.

If Steve says, as he clearly did here, that the reason he hasn't divulged more is to protect his sources? Why isn't that an acceptable answer?

I can understand wanting to know as much as possible, and it frustrates me from a "I want to know it all, too!" perspective when Steve posts something cryptic (as he has about Hyperion Wharf), but I'd much rather have those cryptic posts than him keeping quiet completely, which is the alternative.

Well, I guess the alternative is him just laying all of his cards on the table, and losing a valued source, but does anyone really want that?

Personally, I applaud Steve for treating his sources with respect and nurturing those relationships rather than compromising them to break a story and losing them for future scoops. I guess that's just me, though! :shrug:

 

[TarzanRocked99-]

True, but that doesn't mean Club will still be allowed to make that building its home. TDO might prefer to make it a Duffy superstore or Vinylmation outlet.

Please tell me the Bold New Vision is better than that :brick:

 

[Did Knee]

Please tell me the Bold New Vision is better than that :brick:

But wait! you haven't seen how really cool the new combined Duffy superstore and Vinylmation outlet is going to be!!! :ROFLOL:

 

[RSoxNo1]

But when you participate in the forums, you're just like the rest of us. Your credibility is judged by the information you provide, when you provide it and its accuracy.

The problem is, you're ignoring the credibility that Steve has created for himself. When a trusted insider conveys positive information without wanting to reveal their sources it's tough to legitimately complain about it.

You have to respect an individual's sources - while I don't profess to have the contacts that Steve, Lee, raven, juan or Martin have, occasionally I stumble across some information as well. Most people on here are aware of who my main source is, and I've said what I could when he's given us some information. A perfect example of this is the Seven Dwarf's Mine Train. I have raw audio from a conversation with Jim Hill several months before Lee broke the story on this site. Lee was also working on the story around the same time and only broke the info when he felt comfortable enough to share it with us.

 

[jakeman]

I'm sorry you don't like my assessment. I don't like when people essentially say to others "You're wrong, but I can't tell you how I know you're wrong or why you are wrong. You simply have to believe that I know more than you."

Why is that so hard to stomach? You have no right to that information. Steven is under no obligation (other than the betterment of his own site) to provide it.

I personally, would rather Steve get scooped or be wrong occasionally than cost someone their job over a tidbit of information about a theme park.

Then again, it is very clear your priorities are complete different.

I love the website, btw. But when you participate in the forums, you're just like the rest of us. Your credibility is judged by the information you provide, when you provide it and its accuracy.

Not really. Steven is the owner of this site. I'm not sure anyone who can banned you from ever posting again is bound by the same rules as the rest of us.

Speaking of his credibility, if you look back at his track record of reporting, he may be scooped some, but he is fairly accurate as long as I can remember.

Of course, that really isn't the point is it? You just want your information don't you? So you can be the first to hate it.

The reality of the situation is that WDW has been feeding the same line of BS for three years and the only thing that's actually been accomplished at Pleasure Island was the introduction of seed and mulch. Could something actually be happening around the corner? Sure. But I'll believe it when I actually see it - that is the level of WDW's credibility on all PI related projects as far as I'm concerned.

What does that have to do with Steve? He says something is coming, but can't tell you what it is. That alone should tell you that either the information could get someone in trouble or it is in a state of flux.

Steve himself isn't committing to anything himself other that he believes, in his opinion, that a majority of guest are going to like it.

Krack, everyone in this thread knows you aren't going to like it regardless of what it is. So really, why doesn't the information matter to you? Just so you can be the first one to poo-poo it?

 

[Master Gracey]

If AC is to be demolished, I will volunteer to swing the wrecking ball into the building myself so the complainers can finally move on with their lives...

I would not advise being the person who pulled that lever, it would be a very dangerous position to be in. I completely agree with you Lee:

It'll take a lot more than a wrecking ball to make me move on.
I swear vengeance in any (legal) way possible on all who are involved, were the AC to fall and not be reborn.
I don't forget, and I would never forgive.

If that should ever happen (though we know it isn't the case due to the permits calling for improvements and not demolition) it would only be a matter of seconds before the "Rebuild the Adventurers Club" campaign came into being!

Some days you eat the mouse.
Some days the mouse eats you.
But never give into the mouse without a fight!

KUNGALOOSH!​

 

[jt04]

These are interesting times.
Rumors abound. Gonna be...interesting...

I agree but I think that may just be wishful thinking. I have thought of what they may be up to and it is killing me not to post it here but I may be to close to the truth so I will keep quiet.

If they are trying to build suspense it is working. :dazzle:

 

[Captain Chaos]

It'll take a lot more than a wrecking ball to make me move on.
I swear vengeance in any (legal) way possible on all who are involved, were the AC to fall and not be reborn.
I don't forget, and I would never forgive.

We cannot live in the past. We have to move on into the future.

You don't have to forget nor forgive, just... move on.

 

[GLaDOS]

I agree but I think that may just be wishful thinking. I have thought of what they may be up to and it is killing me not to post it here but I may be to close to the truth so I will keep quiet.

Meaning you have no clue what's going on, but you post this so when whatever's going on is announced you can say, "Yup! This is exactly what I thought they were doing!"

 

[cblodg]

I'm not sure I understand all the arguing going on here. Steve posted what he knows and I posted what I've heard; the two are in conflict with each other. It happens.

 

[Captain Chaos]

I'm not sure I understand all the arguing going on here. Steve posted what he knows and I posted what I've heard; the two are in conflict with each other. It happens.

And these things often are.. especially when TDO has no clue what their own plans are.. LOL...

 

[jt04]

Meaning you have no clue what's going on, but you post this so when whatever's going on is announced you can say, "Yup! This is exactly what I thought they were doing!"

I have over 11,115 post on this forum. I challange you to find and link to one instance of me doing this. If I am armchair imagineering something I clearly say so. Trust me, if they don't do what I think they will I will be in the imagineering forum posting my idea because I will probably think my idea is better. Now THAT is something I have done. :lol:

But my ego does not cause me to need to be right nor do I mind being wrong if I am wrong. Move along, you have no idea what you are talking about. :wave:

And love seeing more progress at DTD :sohappy:

 

[jt04]

And these things often are.. especially when TDO has no clue what their own plans are.. LOL...

This isn't 2004.

 

[Krack]

It seems to me that 1) you don't like that Steve has heard rumors he's not telling us, and

To be clear ...

I do not care if Steve hears rumors that he does not divulge on the forum. What I do not like is when someone receives insider information and then starts posting cryptic messages and/or states over and over "You're wrong, but I can't tell you how or why you're wrong." Why don't I like this? For three main reasons ...

(1) It's just being a tease. It's a cry for attention. It's a "Hey look at me! I know stuff you don't know! And I'm not telling!", and

(2) It's an attempt to shut down negative discussion; particularly when it comes from the site owner. Person A says "I don't believe they are going to build HW." The site owner says "My sources say you're wrong, but I can't tell you anything else." (paraphrase) How does that further the discussion? It doesn't. If you don't believe him, all you can do is say "I don't believe your information" or "I don't like your approach" or "Prove it" or "You need to tell me what you know before you I believe it" and then everyone will circle the wagons and basically accuse you of calling the site owner a liar (as happened in the thread), and

(3) Most importantly, it makes it impossible to judge the credibility of both the reporter (for lack of a better word) and the source itself. What has Steve said regarding HW ... (paraphrase) it's still going forward and the plans are magnificent. Wow, that's really going out on a limb. There's no way to judge whether or not this was good information. If we wake up tomorrow and the 5th Gate magically appears on that land? That fits the tease. If 2 years from now, HW is built exactly as depicted in the drawings? That fits the tease. If 3 years from now, the land is still just seed & mulch? That fits the tease ("We're still developing a bold new vision").

Now Steve, or any other "insider" can state whatever they want and supply any, or all, or none of the information they care to. But that doesn't mean I have to like it.

2) you wouldn't believe the rumors even if he did tell us.

I might. I might not.

If the rumor was that they are going to try and rebuild the area to be exactly like the Marketplace so all three areas are similarly themed with 3rd party vendors ... I'd believe that.

If the rumor was that WDW upper management is POed at upper-mid management that nothing has been done with the land and the people responsible for DTD are scrambling trying to make it look like something (anything) is about to be built there right around the corner to take the pressure off them ... I'd believe that.

If the rumor was that they still wanted to build HW exactly as the concept art looked, but none of the 3rd party vendors are interested ... I'd believe that.

The problem is, the rumor is "They are working on something and it's great." Are you asking me if I believe they are working on something and it's great?

EDIT: I've been saying for three or four years now that NOTHING is coming. Doesn't that make me the most credible poster on the site? Doesn't that at least make my opinion just as valuable as anyone else's opinion? Even if HW magically appeared tomorrow, I'd still feel pretty good about my history of predicting what was going to happen at PI.

 

[wdwfan100]

If AC is to be demolished, I will volunteer to swing the wrecking ball into the building myself so the complainers can finally move on with their lives...

Wow. Kind, thoughtful, generous. Your a giver. :dazzle:

 

[ryanduggers]

To be clear ...

I do not care if Steve hears rumors that he does not divulge on the forum. What I do not like is when someone receives insider information and then starts posting cryptic messages and/or states over and over "You're wrong, but I can't tell you how or why you're wrong." Why don't I like this? For three main reasons ...

(1) It's just being a tease. It's a cry for attention. It's a "Hey look at me! I know stuff you don't know! And I'm not telling!", and

(2) It's an attempt to shut down negative discussion; particularly when it comes from the site owner. Person A says "I don't believe they are going to build HW." The site owner says "My sources say you're wrong, but I can't tell you anything else." (paraphrase) How does that further the discussion? It doesn't, and

(3) Most importantly, it makes it impossible to judge the credibility of both the reporter (for lack of a better word) and the source itself. What has Steve said regarding HW ... (paraphrase) it's still going forward and the plans are magnificent. Wow, that's really going out on a limb. There's no way to judge whether or not this was good information. If we wake up tomorrow and the 5th Gate magically appears on that land? That fits the tease. If 2 years from now, HW is built exactly as depicted in the drawings? That fits the tease. If 3 years from now, the land is still just seed & mulch? That fits the tease ("We're still developing a bold new vision").

Now Steve, or any other "insider" can state whatever they want and supply any, or all, or none of the information they care to. But that doesn't mean I have to like it.




I might. I might not.

If the rumor was that they are going to try and rebuild the area to be exactly like the Marketplace so all three areas are similarly themed with 3rd party vendors ... I'd believe that.

If the rumor was that WDW upper management is POed at upper-mid management that nothing has been done with the land and the people responsible for DTD are scrambling trying to make it look like something (anything) is about to be built there right around the corner to take the pressure off them ... I'd believe that.

If the rumor was that they still wanted to build HW exactly as the concept art looked, but none of the 3rd party vendors are interested ... I'd believe that.

The problem is, the rumor is "They are working on something and it's great." Are you asking me if I believe they are working on something and it's great?

Boy, did you take the cranky pills today. You must have forgot, Steve makes the rules, not you. This attitude got Merf banned.

 

[Krack]

Boy, did you take the cranky pills today. You must have forgot, Steve makes the rules, not you. This attitude got Merf banned.

First of all, if I'm going to get banned because the site operator can't take my criticism, there's nothing I can do about it. However, nothing I have seen has ever given me the impression that Steve is vindictive and takes things personally regarding the site, so I have no reason to believe he would do so. As I said earlier in the thread, I give Steve the same amount of respect as any other poster on the site, and my approach to commenting on his posts is the same approach as I have with any other poster.

He said something I didn't like. I said I didn't like it. He said he didn't appreciate my criticism. And we all agreed to disagree. I don't see the big deal. I reserve the right to not like what I don't like.

 

[wm49rs]

To be clear ...

I do not care if Steve hears rumors that he does not divulge on the forum. What I do not like is when someone receives insider information and then starts posting cryptic messages and/or states over and over "You're wrong, but I can't tell you how or why you're wrong." Why don't I like this? For three main reasons ...

(1) It's just being a tease. It's a cry for attention. It's a "Hey look at me! I know stuff you don't know! And I'm not telling!", and

(2) It's an attempt to shut down negative discussion; particularly when it comes from the site owner. Person A says "I don't believe they are going to build HW." The site owner says "My sources say you're wrong, but I can't tell you anything else." (paraphrase) How does that further the discussion? It doesn't. If you don't believe him, all you can do is say "I don't believe your information" or "I don't like your approach" or "Prove it" or "You need to tell me what you know before you I believe it" and then everyone will circle the wagons and basically accuse you of calling the site owner a liar (as happened in the thread), and

(3) Most importantly, it makes it impossible to judge the credibility of both the reporter (for lack of a better word) and the source itself. What has Steve said regarding HW ... (paraphrase) it's still going forward and the plans are magnificent. Wow, that's really going out on a limb. There's no way to judge whether or not this was good information. If we wake up tomorrow and the 5th Gate magically appears on that land? That fits the tease. If 2 years from now, HW is built exactly as depicted in the drawings? That fits the tease. If 3 years from now, the land is still just seed & mulch? That fits the tease ("We're still developing a bold new vision").

Now Steve, or any other "insider" can state whatever they want and supply any, or all, or none of the information they care to. But that doesn't mean I have to like it.

Or, another option is that Steve hasn't been given the final go-ahead to report what he's been told. And keeping this sources happy for the long run of their ongoing relationship is more important that satisfying someone whose curiosity doesn't go much further than the opportunity to decry whatever news comes next for PI/HW. Steve has been running this site for 15 years, and may like to keep the flow of information ongoing for some time to come.

Considering he hasn't edited or deleted any of your posts condemning him, I think "shut down negative discussion" can go out the window as well....

And seeing as how this is his site, the "cry for attention" angle isn't really working for you either. Nor is he one to gloat should what he knows be officially released by Disney any time soon.

You don't like how Steve runs things? There's plenty of other forums out there, where your incessant negativity would fit right in.

 

[wdwmagic]

To be clear ...

I do not care if Steve hears rumors that he does not divulge on the forum. What I do not like is when someone receives insider information and then starts posting cryptic messages and/or states over and over "You're wrong, but I can't tell you how or why you're wrong." Why don't I like this? For three main reasons ...

(1) It's just being a tease. It's a cry for attention. It's a "Hey look at me! I know stuff you don't know! And I'm not telling!", and

(2) It's an attempt to shut down negative discussion; particularly when it comes from the site owner. Person A says "I don't believe they are going to build HW." The site owner says "My sources say you're wrong, but I can't tell you anything else." (paraphrase) How does that further the discussion? It doesn't. If you don't believe him, all you can do is say "I don't believe your information" or "I don't like your approach" or "Prove it" or "You need to tell me what you know before you I believe it" and then everyone will circle the wagons and basically accuse you of calling the site owner a liar (as happened in the thread), and

(3) Most importantly, it makes it impossible to judge the credibility of both the reporter (for lack of a better word) and the source itself. What has Steve said regarding HW ... (paraphrase) it's still going forward and the plans are magnificent. Wow, that's really going out on a limb. There's no way to judge whether or not this was good information. If we wake up tomorrow and the 5th Gate magically appears on that land? That fits the tease. If 2 years from now, HW is built exactly as depicted in the drawings? That fits the tease. If 3 years from now, the land is still just seed & mulch? That fits the tease ("We're still developing a bold new vision").

Now Steve, or any other "insider" can state whatever they want and supply any, or all, or none of the information they care to. But that doesn't mean I have to like it.




I might. I might not.

If the rumor was that they are going to try and rebuild the area to be exactly like the Marketplace so all three areas are similarly themed with 3rd party vendors ... I'd believe that.

If the rumor was that WDW upper management is POed at upper-mid management that nothing has been done with the land and the people responsible for DTD are scrambling trying to make it look like something (anything) is about to be built there right around the corner to take the pressure off them ... I'd believe that.

If the rumor was that they still wanted to build HW exactly as the concept art looked, but none of the 3rd party vendors are interested ... I'd believe that.

The problem is, the rumor is "They are working on something and it's great." Are you asking me if I believe they are working on something and it's great?

EDIT: I've been saying for three or four years now that NOTHING is coming. Doesn't that make me the most credible poster on the site? Doesn't that at least make my opinion just as valuable as anyone else's opinion? Even if HW magically appeared tomorrow, I'd still feel pretty good about my history of predicting what was going to happen at PI.

I actually find your comments rather insulting. You have probably forgotten that you are a guest here on my site. Since you dislike the way I post and run the site, I would suggest you leave and post elsewhere.

 

[Krack]

I actually find your comments rather insulting. You have probably forgotten that you are a guest here on my site. Since you dislike the way I post and run the site, I would suggest you leave and post elsewhere.

I'm sorry if you were insulted. I will go elsewhere.