jt04
Well-Known Member
I didn't say the MK is not meant for children. What I am saying is that the MK fails miserably in serving the needs of families with "young'uns". Miserably.
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Princesses may not rule fantasy land after all! Frontierland expansion rumor reality?
- Thread starter floridabill
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I didn't say the MK is not meant for children. What I am saying is that the MK fails miserably in serving the needs of families with "young'uns". Miserably.
I don't entirely agree with those assertions either. Yes, MK does have the longest trek to the main gates, but the walk from the gates at AK to the actual rides and attractions isn't the shortest either. And the Florida heat is just as oppressive standing in line for EE or to eat at Flaming Tree. WDW was blessed with extra space, and the Imagineers took full advantage of that fact, sometimes to the detriment of the guests.
That being said, 8-year olds, and especially girls, are a target demographic of the FLE. As Lebeau artfully set forth in another thread, the princesses and fairies are billion-dollar franchises. No way that Disney is going to pass up incorporating them into MK.
jt04
Well-Known Member
Secong guessing John Lasseter? Good luck with that. :lol:
The under 8 crowd will not be as finnicky as you suggest. And the FLE will not be as girlish as the self-absorbed propagandists here suggest.
But to you main point. The challange is to address the needs of the guests while keeping the business profitable. Imagineering has found a way to do that. That is why they got the job. Because they are smart like that.
Yeah, I'll second-guess him, because MK isn't the only WDW park where space, heat, humidity and lines are an issue. All the WDW parks have that issue to some extent.
And nowhere did I suggest that demographic was finicky. Quite the opposite. The FLE shows that Disney is seeking to tap into a very profitable franchise and the fan base that comes with it.
SeaCastle
Well-Known Member
I still don't understand how the Magic Kingdom miserably fails serving the needs of guests with children. Almost all of the Magic Kingdom's few dozen attractions cater specifically for this demographic you say it's neglecting.
What's wrong with not having the same opinion as John Lasseter? I second guess most of the politicians I hear and lightning hasn't come forth from the sky and struck me dead. :shrug:
misterID
Well-Known Member
Wow, I totally disagree. Not only is MK the most kid/family friendly theme park in all of WDW but all of Orlando.
Look at TL. In the last 10-15 years it's gone from a land aimed at adults and teens to a kiddie land, aimed and toned down specifically for kids and families (who can't read signs, apparantly).
AL is now more kiddie friendly.
FL is a kiddie land. And I have no problem with that. The FLE would do nothing to hurt FL, imo. But it will hurt the rest of the park. Especially with the funds being used to make it more, not just kiddie friendly, but aimed specifically at very young girls. All that land, all that money, aimed at a very small, select group of guests is insane, imo.
I don't have a problem with the expansion, but acting like it's desperately needed, as it was proposed, to cater to families and children, when the park already does and continues to do that, is wrong, imo.
If the FLE is one M&G, the B&B restraunant and TLM ride, I think that would be a perfect addition to FL right now. Use the rest of that money somewhere else and keep the land available back there for something else.
Lee
Adventurer
Please....explain the thinking behind that statement. Based on the reality of the MK, your statement fails. Miserably.
:ROFLOL:
David S.
Member
I agree with you that the MK has more attractions that a kid would likely enjoy than any of the other parks.
Where I respectfully disagree is where you said for all intents and purposes, MK was a "kiddie park".
I believe it's for all ages, and not just for the young, but for the young at heart! I'm over 30, and it's EASIILY my favorite park, and Fantasyland (which other posters in this thread have called "kiddie", and I strongly disagree) is my favorite section! Fantasyland is for the young at heart, the timeless land of enchantment where storybook dreams come true! Just like Walt's Animated Classics on which it is based, it's for everyone!
Based on people I am aquaintances with who aren't into Disney, I will agree that many unfortunately have a PERCEPTION that the MK and Fantasyland are "kiddie", but then again those people feel that way about all of WDW!
Unfortunately, we live in cynical times, and I think perhaps the reason some adults consider MK "kiddie" is because some (NOT all, and I don't mean you or others in this thread!) have lost the ability to be charmed by things that speak to the inner child in everyone.
I respectfully disagree. As for Space Mountain and Big Thunder Mountain, I may be in the minority, but I am a coaster enthusiast with a "track record" somewhere between 270 and 280 coasters ridden, in 53 parks, and they are my favorite steel coasters in Florida! Not as thrilling as a wooden coaster (such as Gwazi at Busch Gardens) or steel hypercoaster (which Florida lacks), but I definitely prefer them over positive-g heavy, constantly looping endurance tests like Kumba or Manta, and find them WAY more thrilling then those! I don't consider being pressed down into my seat, or going upside down, thrilling.
From the point of view of prefering old-school coaster elements (mainly, like AIRTIME!), SM amd BTMRR are really solid, thrilling, coasters, and I would definitely NOT consider them "tame" or "kiddie"!
They whip you around real good and toss you out of the seat (until the lap bar catches you!) and sadly, many so-called more "intense" coasters COMPLETELY lack this! The loopers need those restricting shoulder harnesses, so even if they were designed with airtime-producing drops and camelback humps (which they usually aren't), you wouldn't catch any air.For me, it's ALL ABOUT THE AIRTIME! Woodies deliver this, and thankfully so do Space Mountain and Big Thunder Mountain Railroad!
Ironically, I don't find Splash as thrilling as SM and BTMRR. It has no airtime. The drops are fun, but you never have the continuous SUSTAINED speed like you get on a coaster. I always think of Splash as primarily a dark ride more than anything. Having said that, it's my co-favorite attraction in WDW (along with IASW) because of the heavy charm, cuteness, humor, and musical factors! Factors which the MK in general, and Fantasyland, have in abundance, and I don't consider "kiddie!"
jt04
Well-Known Member
:brick:
I don't have any problem understanding you perceive the MK as a children's park. They have tried to fix that while only allienating older guests. But if you can't see the park from the perspective of guests with children (who largely sacrifice greatly to go to WDW) then you will of course fail to see the point. I understand you don't have children but there is a whole universe of different perspecties out there. Lasseter recognzed and explained the problem. That you fail to recognize it, or care for whatever reason is not a failure on my part. I suspect if the AC was still open you would not give any thought to the FLE, pro or con.
What's truly amazing is that the best you have to offer for reasoned responses is petty insults and pathetic snark. Actually, no surprise there...
So Lasseter explained himself with MK. So what? He's ignoring the fact that the lines, heat and distances to and within the parks aren't specific to MK alone.
As for the perception MK is a kiddie parks; it's just that, a perception. One that for better or worse is being reinforced by a FL expansion focused on a particular demographic. But there's nothing wrong with either the perception or the FLE. The latter is simply good business acumen on the part of Disney.
ROTFLMAO - Yeah, I hear that a lot ... "I was going to take my children to the Magic Kingdom, but it's not for kids. They wouldn't really like anything there. We're going to take our family somewhere else where our needs are met better."
Do you even read what you type before you hit the Submit button?
jt04
Well-Known Member
Right back at you skippy.
So they are spending 100's of millions of dollars to fix a problem you think they don't have but John Lasseter says they clearly do. Think before you respond again please.
SeaCastle
Well-Known Member
I'll agree there. I meant to say that from an average, non-fan, teenager/young adults point of view, the Magic Kingdom is a kiddie park. I am not a kid, and yet I enjoy the Magic Kingdom tremendously,enough to call it my favorite park (next to Typhoon Lagoon). My inner child is indeed charmed when I visit the Magic Kingdom, even at my age I still find it magical! Unfortunately, not everyone does.
I respectfully disagree. As for Space Mountain and Big Thunder Mountain, I may be in the minority, but I am a coaster enthusiast with a "track record" somewhere between 270 and 280 coasters ridden, in 53 parks, and they are my favorite steel coasters in Florida! Not as thrilling as a wooden coaster (such as Gwazi at Busch Gardens) or steel hypercoaster (which Florida lacks), but I definitely prefer them over positive-g heavy, constantly looping endurance tests like Kumba or Manta, and find them WAY more thrilling then those! I don't consider being pressed down into my seat, or going upside down, thrilling.
From the point of view of prefering old-school coaster elements (mainly, like AIRTIME!), SM amd BTMRR are really solid, thrilling, coasters, and I would definitely NOT consider them "tame" or "kiddie"!
For me, it's ALL ABOUT THE AIRTIME! Woodies deliver this, and thankfully so do Space Mountain and Big Thunder Mountain Railroad!
Ironically, I don't find Splash as thrilling as SM and BTMRR. It has no airtime. The drops are fun, but you never have the continuous SUSTAINED speed like you get on a coaster. I always think of Splash as primarily a dark ride more than anything. Having said that, it's my co-favorite attraction in WDW (along with IASW) because of the heavy charm, cuteness, humor, and musical factors! Factors which the MK in general, and Fantasyland, have in abundance, and I don't consider "kiddie!"
I'm not a coaster junkie, but I'll go with what you said. I just find that the singular drop of Splash Mountain has the potential to turn off young kids. The rest of the ride is a fairly tame dark ride. I find Big Thunder Mountain to be more of a ride than a rollercoaster (with all of the elaborate show scenes), but compared to something like, say, Rolling Thunder at Great Adventure, it's relatively tame. That said, I lack the coaster expertise to make an informed opinion, but I consider the three mountains to be more on the "kiddie" end of the spectrum then thrill rides, but that's not to say the rides are exceedingly well done.
Krack does have a point that you didn't answer. Guests aren't getting turned away because the Magic Kingdom isn't fitting their needs. As a matter of fact, attendance has been increasing according to latest estimates.
The money is being spent on giving characters better meet and greets, adding capacity and a nice landscape to Fantasyland, and fixing other operational and logistical problems plaguing the park.
jt04
Well-Known Member
Well worded. Yes attedance is increasing and that is making the problem Lasseter is concerned about worse.
If families do not have a magical Disney experience they are less likely to return. That is one of the main problems RFID is designed to fix. Also, if children don't remember WDW in the best light they will also be less likely to return with their children. I think one of the things they hope to address is moving some of the masses from the MK to the other parks. By skewing the MK to a younger demographic (and not with poor choices like Stitch over AE) they can even out the crowds. The FLE is just the first step in fixing WDW. Similar to how installing the ToT was only the first step in fixing DCA. It stuns me how narrow-minded, short-sighted and utterly self-absorbed some people are here (not talking about you). The inability to project long term or see the bigger picture is troubling.
WDW is getting the DCA treatment on a much bigger scale IMO. Get used to it, it is to everyone's benefit in the long run.:sohappy:
DisneyParksFan1
Active Member
No sarcasm, but can you please explain what you mean by first step in fixing WDW? Bcause I just don't think they spending 1.1 billion bucks on MK, and definitely not the whole WDW which would need more if it was something like what's happening at DCA.
jt04
Well-Known Member
RFID is in that price range but from all reports will be a resort wide application. So the FLE and RFID will exceed the DCA budget by almost double. But it is really apples/oranges as TWDC can justify much bigger budgets for Orlando than the DLR will ever see just on economic grounds. WDW is magnitudes bigger than Disneyland and always will be.
David S.
Member
To be completely fair, the coaster enthusiast community is certainly very divided as to what they like in their rides. Some prefer wood, others steel. Some (like me) prefer airtime/negative g's, while others prefer loops/positive g's. Since I prefer wood (and steel that, in some way, has similar elements to wood); and prefer the non-looping, airtime style of coasters; and also enjoy the aggression of a ride like Space Mountain (that many would call uncomfortable "roughness",), and enjoy the laterals of BTMRR, this makes me more likely to love Space and BTMRR than someone for whom positive g's, inversions, speed, or "smoothness" is important.
So I actually didn't mean to imply that because I've ridden a lot of coasters, that I was more qualified to judge these rides, so I hope it didn't come off that way!
I mentioned my experience to show that even after riding all those other coasters, Space and BTMRR still thrill me. If someone else doesn't find them that thrilling, their opinion is just as valid as mine, even if they've only been on a few coasters!